[OB] Oathbringer chapters 10-12

[Toaster Retribution]

Just now, Nicrosil said:

Oh God I had a terrible thought. 

What if the young kid is Adolin? What if Dalinar married Tanalan's wife? And Dalinar's boon was for everyone's memories to be altered? It could explain the discrepancy with how Dalinar got his armor from his marriage, but had it when he killed Tanalan. 

...Ok, it's pretty stupid sounding now that I type it.

I actually thought the same thing for a second, but it is easily disproved. There is a WoB saying that both Adolin and Renarin are legitimate sons of Dalinar.

[Ryder]

2 minutes ago, Toaster Retribution said:

I actually thought the same thing for a second, but it is easily disproved. There is a WoB saying that both Adolin and Renarin are legitimate sons of Dalinar.

And the timelines don't match up either.  Adolin is far too young to be Tanalan's son, seeing as he would need to be ~40 now.

[Snipexe]

@Nicrosil that is really interesting idea, and I want it to be true, but there isn't actually a discrepancy. In the book, all it says is that he married her for her plate, not nesessarily that he didn't already have some. Gavilar probably wanted it for elkohar, but Adolun got it instead.

[+ElephantEarwax]

Not having read comments yet. 

Kal is being nice, and is gonna have an interesting day.

I don't like young Dalinar.

Adolin I think will form a bond with Gallant

Dalinar is having trouble, possibly with what happened with Elhokar.

I think the mystery radiant is Lyft, I don't think most radiants would take pushing from their spren to do that.

[maxal]

Ah something I forgot, I really want Gallant to ditch Dalinar and to bond Adolin. The poor kid needs someone who'll chose him.

[Steeldancer]

Just now, maxal said:

Ah something I forgot, I really want Gallant to ditch Dalinar and to bond Adolin. The poor kid needs someone who'll chose him.

But why would he ditch dalinar... I mean Adolins great and all, but he's still Dalinars horse. 

[maxal]

Just now, Steeldancer said:

But why would he ditch dalinar... I mean Adolins great and all, but he's still Dalinars horse. 

Because Dalinar doesn't go to see him, Dalinar doesn't think about him, Dalinar doesn't give him any attention... I'd be great if someone were to show Dalinar he ought not to take them for granted. Adolin is the one carrying for Gallant now, not Dalinar. It seems fitting the horse would end up preferring him.

[WhiteLeeopard]

2 minutes ago, maxal said:

Ah something I forgot, I really want Gallant to ditch Dalinar and to bond Adolin. The poor kid needs someone who'll chose him.

Only way I see that happening is if Dalinar gives permission for that to happen/encourages it. Which is possible, he may decide his place is in Urithiru and push Gallant to go with Adolin. Of course that would only work since Adolin and Gallant already like each other. We'll see.

[Nicrosil]

10 minutes ago, Toaster Retribution said:

I actually thought the same thing for a second, but it is easily disproved. There is a WoB saying that both Adolin and Renarin are legitimate sons of Dalinar.

 

6 minutes ago, Ryder said:

And the timelines don't match up either.  Adolin is far too young to be Tanalan's son, seeing as he would need to be ~40 now.

 

4 minutes ago, snipexe said:

@Nicrosil that is really interesting idea, and I want it to be true, but there isn't actually a discrepancy. In the book, all it says is that he married her for her plate, not nesessarily that he didn't already have some. Gavilar probably wanted it for elkohar, but Adolun got it instead.

I'm glad I'm wrong! Right now, I'm thinking the same thing as others: Dalinar let the boy and/or his mother live, it comes back to bite him in the butt, he slaughters the city in vengeance, and his wife accidentally dies in the process. Can someone check the map of Alethkar from WoK and see if Rift is still on the map?

As for the Szeth/Kaladin meetup, I wouldn't be surprised if Kaladin putting history aside and working with Szeth is related to his next oath. 

[Ryder]

@maxal One positive thing I could see happening for Adolin is he might end up training new KR's how to fight with shardblades.  Assuming KR's start popping up en masse, there's going to be a bunch of people with shardblades who won't know how to use them, and Adolin is regarded as one of the best duelists in the world.  I'm assuming this would be with cooperation from Zahel and the rest of the sword training ardents who were at the shattered plains.  Reasons this might not be a good idea is Adolin already has enough on his plate with the investigation and now being highprince.  Also, it might be difficult to teach/spar with KR's since his blade won't be able to shift form. 

[WhiteLeeopard]

I loved the Adolin scene. He needs some peace and quiet after the ongoing shocks he has been having. The KR are back. And he is engaged to one, son to another and brother to yet another. Kill Sadeas. Be put in charge of the Alethi armies. Second copycat murder. Be put in charge of investigation for the murder he committed . Sugar feeding time for Gallant and relaxing with his little brother sounds perfect at this point.

[+eveorjoy]

Okay. A few thoughts. I'll not comment on everything, just what stood out the most to me. 

*I didn't expect a Kaladin chapter already. Awesome. Kaladin and Lift are my favorites. Yay. 

*Kaladin happy, double Yay.

*Kaladin going on about Shallan being a lighteyes so he would not date her. So are you Brightlord Stormblessed. Then I thought of Syl and Pattern giving tips the first time he and Shallan made out.  No,  the reason she shouldn't be with Kaladin is that she is with Adolin. 

*I take back every suspicious thought about Renarin. I think this was the whole point of Adolin's scene, proving Renarin to be a legit Truthwatcher. This was the first time I noticed his Autism. I have several members of my family on the spectrum, and his conversation with Adolin reminded me of several of my family members. 

*So do you think Dalinar killed that boy? I do. I think this is only the beginning. 

*Of course Gawks isn't going to be that easy to deal with. I wonder if the Lift interlude will be about the negotiations with the Voidbringers. 

*Taravangain is coming to Urithru and Dalinar is eager to work with him. That sound you hear is my head knocking against my table. I wonder if Taravangain is going to take Sadeas's place, Sadeas of book one I mean. Someone Dalinar trusts who is waiting for the chance to bring him down. It will be cool to see the two together. I wonder what order Taravangain's female Radiant is from. 

[SilverTiger]

Rathalas is one of the biggest cities in Alethkar, on the north coast of the Sea of Spears. In case anyone's interested. It is also right on the border on the Kholin princedom.

[hypatia]

You don't need the child alive, Gavilar is predicting resistance for years, BECAUSE Dalinar has killed the Brightlord and his heir.

In both flashback I see a pattern, they kill Brightlords who were able to get real loyality from their people, not only with the threat of killing their family and ending as canon fodder.

Another thought - how was the old Dalinar reacting to his very different sons?

Adolin was a child he was expecting, but Renarin?

Could this be the reason why Renarin is broken?

And what this child said about fighting monsters - isn't this the same Dalinsr is facing with the voidbringer?

Edited September 19, 2017 by hypatia

[King Cole]

37 minutes ago, eveorjoy said:

Then I thought of Syl and Pattern giving tips the first time he and Shallan made out.  No,  the reason she shouldn't be with Kaladin is that she is with Adolin. 

Yeah... making out... thats what he was thinking of 

Edited September 19, 2017 by King Cole

[Calderis]

1 minute ago, King Cole said:

Yeah... making out... thats what he was thinking off

You mean you don't need closed doors to make out what someone? 

What an exhibitionist! 

[King Cole]

I was in class when I read that part and I almost got in trouble whenever I started laughing uncontrollably

[+Extesian]

In a shattering of all decorum and common decency, I lapsed into unconsciousness immediately after reading "If Dalinar failed everywhere else, at least he would have King Taravangian at his...". Oh DK.

So without further soliloquy, my post-sleep/pre-work first thinkies. As always, I have not read any of the comments or delicious lies by others, to leave my virginal thoughts unsullied and unspoiled, so my lazy apologies if you've seen it all before. 

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He Lashed himself upward slightly, then let himself slide down the wet stone of the steep hill, standing sideways. ..Kaladin chuckled, holding a little Stormlight as he ran up the side of the next hill, then skidded down into the next valley.

Our first glimpses of using windrunner powers for general shenanigans rather than surgical assassinations, of conserving stormlight, and of Syl's sidekick developing some finesse. And of apparently believing he's an Edgedancer. Tasty!

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Gumfrems, a kind of chull-like beast, were less common pasture animals harvested for their gemhearts, which—though small—allowed Soulcasting of meat.

Hello. Farmed gemhearts. For those who may have wondered where they all come from.

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You call the Stormfather… well, Father. Right? So he birthed you?”

“Maybe? I think so? Helped shape me, is more like it. Helped us find our voices.” She cocked her head. “Yes. He made some of us. Made me.”

Stormfather or Honor, Syl. STORMFATHER OR HONOR? My lady doth speaketh elliptically.

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The men who were attacked?” Kaladin said, inspecting the cudgel, which the Voidbringers had dropped while fleeing.

“They’ve both recovered, Brightlord,” the ardent said. “Though Khem has a ringing in his ear he says won’t go away.”

Eh? The Desolation will be...loud? Is this some ultrasonic "let's irritate American diplomats scenario? 

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“The red lights,” Kaladin said. “Describe them again.”

The ardent started; she’d been looking at him. “Um, all five witnesses mentioned the lights, Brightlord. There were several small glowing red lights in the darkness.”

“Their eyes.”

“Maybe?” the ardent said. “If those were eyes, it was only a few. I went and asked, and none of the witnesses specifically saw eyes glowing—and Khem got a look right in one of the parshmen’s faces as they struck him

So clearly not all voidforms get pink-eye. Voidform may have more flexibility than we expected. Hmmmm.

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Hair that hasn’t been combed since you flew across the continent, uniform stained with crem, and that beard.”

Beardin is back! Oh to spend cold nights nestled in your silky man-mane.

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Come on,” Syl said. “What about that Lightweaver? You seemed to like her.”

The words struck uncomfortably close to the truth. “Shallan is engaged to Dalinar’s son.”

There will be a quarter of a million posts on this exchange. I'll leave that to the shippers.

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Followed them half a day out, Brightlord. They never deviated. Straight toward Kholinar, I’d swear to Kelek himself.”

Get your dirty, stinking paws off that Oathgate. Logistics win wars.

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“It just happened. Glys wasn’t certain he could do it… but we need more people to work the Oathgate… so…”

He took a deep breath, then stretched his hand to the side and summoned a long glowing Shardblade. Thin, with almost no crossguard, it had waving folds to the metal, like it had been forged.

Renarin doesn't get my motor running that much, but this was wonderful. You go boy! Oh and Truthwatchers clearly have a loose oath system yes?

Quote

Renarin looked to him, then smiled. A pulse of Radiance washed through Adolin, and for an instant he saw himself perfected. A version of himself that was somehow complete and whole, the man he could be.

It was gone in a moment, and Renarin pulled his hand free and murmured an apology. He mentioned again the Shardblade needing to be given away, then fled back into the tower.

Adolin stared after him. Gallant trotted up and nudged him for more sugar, so he reached absently into his satchel and fed the horse.

Only after Gallant trotted off did Adolin realize he’d used his right hand.

He held it up, amazed, moving his fingers. His wrist had been completely healed.

"Renarin is clearly a voidbinder because he hasn't healed Adolingo's hand", said this Extesian last week. Touche, Renarin, tou-storming-che.

Oh and TRUTHWATCHER POWER. I was guessing the ability to change a spirit web. This is a bit more electrummy but delicious nonetheless. This will have uses. 

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Gavilar was convinced that he could play them off one another, that their natural selfishness would lead them to stab one another in the back. Sadeas, in turn, pushed Gavilar toward greater brutality. He claimed that the fiercer their reputation, the more cities would turn to them willingly rather than risk being pillaged.

I hope Sadeas has a cognitive shadow so Hoid can waterboard it.

Quote

 

He found the place easily, a wide wooden platform built on struts connected to parts of the wall below, and draped with vines and blooming rockbuds. Lifespren scattered as Dalinar reached it.

Do...naturespren usually avoid the living? What is going on with your bond DK? Does Cultivation's investiture have an aversion to Honors investiture? Is the Stormsire Odiumish? Is Dalinar a voidspren? Stay tuned...

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They rushed Dalinar with the fatalistic determination of men who knew they were probably dead. The pain in Dalinar’s arms and head seemed nothing before the Thrill. He had rarely felt it so strong as he did now, a beautiful clarity, such a wonderfulemotion.

 There was definitely too much Thrill being cooked in the Kholin bathtubs. You stay strong DK. The seventh step is the most important. 

Quote

They won’t be cowed easily; they won’t like that you killed their highlord and his heir. Those people will resist us for years. I can feel it.”

I admit, I expected the big reveal to be more disturbing. But still. Thrill addicts eh. Poor brave boy

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Aladar and his daughter, May. 

Brandon, you gotta quit trolling us bro. Either May is Adonalsium's cognitive shadow or she's NOTHING IMPORTANT WHATSOEVER. Or this is all leading to one terrible 'may' pun.

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Fortunately,’ ” came the reply, “ ‘our city stands, and the enemy is not actively attacking any longer. We are negotiating with the hostiles.’ ”

“Negotiating?” Dalinar said, shocked. He turned to Teshav, who shook her head in wonder.

“Please clarify, Your Majesty,” Navani said. “The Voidbringers are willing to negotiatewith you?”

“ ‘Yes,’ ” came the reply. “ ‘We are exchanging contracts. They have very detailed demands, with outrageous stipulations. We hope that we can forestall armed conflict in order to gather ourselves and fortify the city.’ ”

“They can write?” Navani pressed. “The Voidbringers themselves are sending you contracts?”

...

“ ‘The average parshman cannot write, so far as we can tell,’ ” the reply came. “ ‘But some are different—stronger, with strange powers. They do not speak like the others.’ ”

Mediationform made for peace, it’s said. / Form of teaching and consolation. / When used by the gods, it became instead / Form of lies and desolation.

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Queen Fen was writing directly in Alethi. “ ‘Kholin,’ ” Kalami read, “ ‘you old brute. Quit spreading chull scat. What do you really want?’ ”

I ship Fen and me. Is that you Vivenna? Did you grow your eyebrows long? I can dig it. 

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There was a weapon that he’d decided to keep hidden for now. It might work as well as a Radiant’s Shardblade in opening the Oathgates— and might let someone reach Thaylen City by flight

That answers that. 

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He would have discussions with the monarchs of Iri—it had three, strangely. The Oathgate at Rall Elorim was in their lands, making them important—and they held sway over nearby Rira, which had another Oathgate.

Beyond that, of course, there were the Shin to deal with. They hated using spanreeds, so Navani had poked at them through a Thaylen merchant who had been willing to relay information

The people who follow One have Three? But any information on the Iriali pleases me. And Vstim is about to have some influence. Sweet.

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I’ve had ample chances to reflect lately, Uncle,” Elhokar said. “The Almighty has preserved me, despite my stupidity. I’ll bring the bridgeman with me, and I’ll observe him. Figure out why he’s so special. See if he’ll teach me to be like him. And if I fail…” He shrugged. “Well, Alethkar is in safe hands regardless, right?”

Elhokar, these words taste strange, but I love you. I actually teared up a bit at this. 

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We have located the device you call an Oathgate. One of my people has come forward, and—remarkably—claims to be Radiant. Her spren directed her to speak with me; we plan to use her Shardblade to test the device.

The spren directed? Taravangian is using Radiants? 10,000 Veden troops are about to arrive in Urithiru? A new Radiant order? Mrall is a Returned kandra with hemalurgy? Taravangian is a dragon? Vivenna is Jezrien's daughter?

Any more questions?

Edited September 19, 2017 by Extesian

[Hischier]

8 minutes ago, hypatia said:

You don't need the child alive, Gavilar is predicting resistance for years, BECAUSE Dalinar has killed the Brightlord and his heir.

In both flashback I see a pattern, they kill Brightlords who were able to get real loyality from their people, not only with the threat of killing their family and ending as canon fodder.

Another thought - how was the old Dalinar reacting to his very different sons?

Adolin was a child he was expecting, but Renarin?

Could this be the reason why Renarin is broken?

I've been thinking about this.

When does Dalinar really start to change? Jasnah calls Dalinar "one of the best men I know" when talking to Shallan. Now, I'm assuming she probably didn't know too much about his past and as her Uncle he probably doted on her (especially since he seems to respect her), but Jasnah also doesn't seem like the type to make a statement like that lightly. Since she's been away from the Shattered Plains for I'm assuming at least a few years, that gives her a very short timeframe to make a statement like that.  Especially since, as Shallan notes, all of her information on the Alethi court is outdated. 

To me that means I think we'll see some significant changes in his character well before his brothers death.  Maybe it comes with the birth of his son.  Maybe it was after his wife's death, maybe it was the even that had a soldier resign and become an Ardent. Maybe something else changed him. But we have no evidence to suggest that Dalinar wasn't at the very least a caring father. 

I think Renarin is broken because being an outcast is a difficult thing, and being Renarin in a warrior society would not be good for anyone's sense of self-worth.  Being sickly, awkward and having Dalinar and Adolin as your family would only exacerbate the issue. Plus his mother died while he was young.  

[+eveorjoy]

39 minutes ago, King Cole said:

Yeah... making out... thats what he was thinking of 

I didn't feel like going into deeper details and I think Pattern and Syl would make comments before it went too far.

[EmeraldPaladin]

8 hours ago, King Cole said:

I've given up on having the really cool reputation levels 

haha, same. rip me

 

[Shrimple]

Have only trudged through half the pages but a though struck me. Could Renarins freak outs be him achieving the next level of his knighthood? Maybe seeing major truths is how they rank up. After his freak out suddenly the next chapter with him he has a glysblade.

[yulerule]

I had a thought about dark flashbacks. In book 1, Kaladin is totally a good guy, but is a slave and depressed through outside forces. In Book 2, Shallan's backstory is darker, but she's also culpable to some extent. She was the one that killed both her parents, but also she was a kid, and self-defense. Book 3, darkest backstory of all so far. And Dalinar is a monster. He's the one doing evil stuff.

So flashback pattern.

[+Wax]

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“This is good,” Adolin said to him. “You’re not going to hurt anyone. You’re here to save us.”

More foreshadowing..?

 

[frozndevl]

The one thought I've had that I haven't seen written down by others here so far, pg5, is that the ever storm at the onset changed them all into storm form, but now it's just removing the prohibition from assuming new forms that gavilar talked about in the prologue. I don't think that the majority of the parshmen are being changed into voidbringers at all but rather just back into parshendi. The comment about mediation form was spot-on I think.