[OB] Oathbringer chapters 10-12

[WhiteLeeopard]

32 minutes ago, frozndevl said:

Another thought I had after reading the "swinging around by the ankles" comment from Syl. What are they actually supposed to do with the dead Shardblades? There's no known way to get rid of them and they are probably too invested to be soulcast into smoke.

Nightblood to the rescue . But in all honestly I doubt the living spren would consider than an upgrade .

I'm very much curious to see Nightblood talk with a spren. Wonder if the spren would be climbing the walls to get away from him or if they would be okay with Nightblood's existence.

[Harbour]

There are interesting possibilities for Dalinar-Adolin situation.

On one hand, consequences aside, i think Dalinar wont judge Adolin for Sadeas death. He himself did much more terrible things to judge his son, especially since it wasn't the "knife in the back" situation. Adolin killed Sadeas in a more honest and reasonable fight, than, said, Dalinar killed Tanalan. So, I'm pretty sure he won't blame Adolin, or banish him, or turn his back on him. He is not hypocrite.

On other hand, taking into account the consequences, try to imagine what the hell will happen inside Dalinar when everyone and he himself will find out that his son killed Sadeas. The man who constantly tells everyone about the union of nations, the man who constantly reminds with his own presence about the Honor, the man, who believe that the humankind can do better and the man who was promised to be the new Messiah for humankind. Suddenly, his son killed one of the bright lords in a pretty dirty way, a knife in the eye.

That would lead to an interesting situation. Dalinar will have the two roads:

1) To step aside, ashamed, and let someone else to lead the humankind for sake of Honor; 

2) To move forward for the sake of humankind. That WOULD require the Honor betrayal.

It would be interesting if hell choose the second road and that will slowly turn him into the Odium's champion.

[Toaster Retribution]

4 minutes ago, Harbour said:

It would be interesting if hell choose the second road and that will slowly turn him into the Odium's champion.

Why would that make him champion of Odium?

Furthermore, punishing Adolin will not necessarily make him a hypocrite. Dalinar killed people while at war. Adolin was technically not at war with Sadeas. Yes, it is a technicallity, and yes, Dalinars actions were much worse. But not hypocritical, depending on how you see it. 

I still think that Adolin will have to be punished in order to make the others see that Dalinar doesn't play favorites, and takes crimes seriously, no matter where they came from.

[CaptainRyan]

If Dalinar is a man of his word (and I think he is) then he will have no say in Adolin's punishment once the murder comes to light. The oath Dalinar accepted from Elhokar specifically states that the Highprinces answer only to Elhokar, not to Dalinar. 

Elhokar is a bit of a wild card. I am honestly unsure of how he will handle Adolin's case. I would guess that Elhokar will decide to be harsh on Adolin to remove any doubts of favoritism and to help cement his authority. 

[teknopathetic]

Do we think that Dalinar's archer friend (I am forgetting his name) is a Radiant? The dude fell pretty far and survived (which mimics the Shallan/Kaladin event), and Dalinar proclaims that that fellow is a "miracle". 

[What's a Seawolf?]

New theory:

Adolin IS banished.  However, unofficially, Dalinar is really sending him on a mission to somehow persuade uncooperative nations to join the cause.

Adolin ends up in Azir and meets everyone's favorite street rat.

Lift not only helps Adolin revive his blade, but teaches him how to Edgedance.

Adolin goes from Highprince and at the top of polite society to surfing down hallways on his butt occasionally stealing dinner.

Everyone lives happily ever after.

 

[teknopathetic]

On 2017-09-19 at 10:09 AM, Bcknight2 said:

The actual quote from WoR is this:

  Hide contents

Chaos in Alethkar is, of course, inevitable. Watch carefully, and do not let power in the kingdom solidify. The Blackthorn could become an ally or our greatest foe, depending on whether he takes the path of the warlord or not. If he seems likely to sue for peace, assassinate him expeditiously. The risk of competition is too great.

—From the Diagram, Writings upon the Bedstand Lamp: paragraph 4 (Adrotagia’s 3rd translation from the original hieroglyphics)

This sounds more like the diagram suggests Dalinar would become an enemy if he managed to create stability, and thus become a competitor for the ultimate leader of any alliance of humanity...

It seems like becoming 'high king' puts him directly in opposition to this passage from the diagram.

I suppose you could argue that with whatever is going on in Kholinar, Alethkar is still unstable and the diagram may not be against Dalinar... But that's really not where I'd put my money

Would the Stormfather know about the Diagram and T's actions? Seems like the Stormfather could just out all of these goings-on, but likely won't since he is a big stubborn grumble grumble. 

[redbishop]

14 hours ago, frozndevl said:

Two thoughts on Glys.

1. He is on the spectrum, if possible. Could explain why he was drawn to Renarjn.

2. Glys is a young spren. None of the other spren have expressed uncertainty in being able to become a Blade, so why was Glys?

Spren of the various types are implied to be of a type, as it were, and I got a scaredy-cat vibe from Ym's spren.  It may be that Truthwatcher spren aren't the brave and outgoing sort.  If they were, say, reluctancespren, that would explain why so little is known about the Order as well.

48 minutes ago, frozndevl said:

Another thought I had after reading the "swinging around by the ankles" comment from Syl. What are they actually supposed to do with the dead Shardblades? There's no known way to get rid of them and they are probably too invested to be soulcast into smoke.

I wonder what would happen if they were Elsecalled into the CR, or tossed into a perpendicularity.  Perhaps they could be offered to the Stormfather during a highstorm, and they could begin to heal.  After all, they are native there.  It would also neatly dovetail with the Everstorm restoring the abilities for Parshendi to adopt forms.  Perhaps the two are even related.

[teknopathetic]

23 hours ago, yulerule said:

These flashbacks are here to show us who Blackthorn was. When we read that title in WoR and tWoK, it meant very little to us - now we see it means a killer. That's the point - not to see the current nice Dalinar - but the really scary, almost amoral guy he was then.  He definitely killed the kid. The shame is about Navani. Also, I read Unfettered, so ... It gets worse.

We don't know if he killed the kid. He spared the Archer, so he is at least capable of mercy. Dalinar has the capacity for both mercy and murder, which is interesting. I grant you that Dalinar saved the Archer because the archer had value (and I suspect that archer was a photo-radiant), but Dalinar can see the good that comes from not killing those that he doesn't need to.

Edited September 20, 2017 by teknopathetic

[teknopathetic]

23 hours ago, Azul said:

You forgot to add they also have rectangular pupils.  Not sure what it means, other than they have mastered sage mode.

I wonder if Ryshadium were cultivated by the Shin. We don't see them mentioned in the flashbacks of the last desolation. We have 10,000 years since the last desolation for a new bond/species/investiture to start forming. Even if they Ryshadium aren't 'new", the Shin seem very involved in their creation or breeding. Add in the fact that there was a splintering,  and the fact the Shin worship cultivation (creating/splicing/improving) and who knows what new magic could form.

Is is also strange that the Shin raise these Stone-Hoofed Horses. The shin are obsessed with stone, and they somehow have horses with stone-feet? Odd. Perhaps Ryshadium were how the Shin Conqueror managed to get some work done. Remember how ardent slowly turn into their soul casting essence if they soul cast too frequently? Well, maybe somehow this was done to the DNA of certain horses, either accidentally or through intentional cultivation practices brought about by the shin (who worship farming and cultivation). 

 

Edited September 20, 2017 by teknopathetic

[WhiteLeeopard]

Radiants had Rhysadium. How soon, that is unknown. Hoid said he had been very surprised to see Ryshadium, and that it was nice to see something could still surprise him. 

[Zea mays]

14 minutes ago, CaptainRyan said:

If Dalinar is a man of his word (and I think he is) then he will have no say in Adolin's punishment once the murder comes to light. The oath Dalinar accepted from Elhokar specifically states that the Highprinces answer only to Elhokar, not to Dalinar. 

Elhokar is a bit of a wild card. I am honestly unsure of how he will handle Adolin's case. I would guess that Elhokar will decide to be harsh on Adolin to remove any doubts of favoritism and to help cement his authority. 

This.

Not only is Dalinar a man of his word, he is now bound to humongous temperamental spren obsessed with the sanctity of oaths. He just unknowingly gave up any influence he had on Adolin's eventual fate. What would Elhokar do? At this point, he'd probably ask his hero bridgeman for advice. I'm sure hilarity will ensue.

[Toaster Retribution]

37 minutes ago, teknopathetic said:

Do we think that Dalinar's archer friend (I am forgetting his name) is a Radiant? The dude fell pretty far and survived (which mimics the Shallan/Kaladin event), and Dalinar proclaims that that fellow is a "miracle". 

His name is Legolas Teleb. He didn't fall. That is why Dalinar is so impressed. Teleb was good enough with a bow to shoot people on huge distances. 

But he is no Radiant. He died during the battle of Narak, during which he carried a Shardblade. It would have been screaming if he was a Radiant. And, as said, he is sadly dead.

Good thought though. 

Edited September 20, 2017 by Toaster Retribution

[WhiteLeeopard]

2 minutes ago, Zea mays said:

This.

Not only is Dalinar a man of his word, he is now bound to humongous temperamental spren obsessed with the sanctity of oaths. He just unknowingly gave up any influence he had on Adolin's eventual fate. What would Elhokar do? At this point, he'd probably ask his hero bridgeman for advice. I'm sure hilarity will ensue.

That would be best scene ever.

E: "Kaladin! Adolin killed Sadeas, how should I punish him?" 

K: "..."

E: "Well, I don't want to make a mistake here"

K: "You are asking. Me. How to punish the man that I grudgingly like despite been a lighteyes for killing a man that treats human life like chattel and that killed a third of my squires."

E: "Yes"

K: "Is it too late to hand in my resignation? My job is not so great after all."

[redbishop]

I'm not even sure that Adolin could reasonably allow himself to be punished.  One, Kaladin would probably imprison himself in protest, probably at a time he is SORELY NEEDED.  Elhokar views Kal as his last hope, and that is before the obligatory Kal-saving-his-butt (or maybe vice-versa) in Kholinar.

Beyond that, Adolin's soldiers were left for dead by Sadeus.  Adolin was visibly instrumental in the holdout, and is well-liked by his men.  I think the Kholin princedom would be strained to the point of leaving Alethkar rather than permit that.

Not that I think that will happen - although what would happen if an independent Highprince Adolin swore the same fealty oath to Dalinar that Elhokar did?

[WhiteLeeopard]

I'm not entirely sure how Kaladin would react to Adolin killing Sadeas. I'm leaning towards "he wouldn't care, or would be ok with it". But I'm not positive. Maybe 75% certain. I've always been 95% sure Renarin would support Adolin.

Shallan...hmm, she might swing back and forth but I think she'd end up supporting Adolin. However, I suspect Shallan's reaction will mark the true begining of their relationship or their splitting up. If she forgives him and stands by him I wouldn't be surprised if they don't take too long to marry. Basically she would have seen his darkest self, and accepted him. As well as seen he is more complex than she though, which I suspect will be an appealing point for her. Of course she also needs to divulge a truth or three about herself. If she grows angry over the lie they will fall appart, and I guess Shalladin will happen. *Color me unenthusiastic about last option*

[Ramza1890]

On 9/19/2017 at 0:03 PM, Ramza1890 said:

Loved these chapters.

I hope that Kaladin and Elhokar do end up traveling to Kholin. I hope that throughout their arc in Kholin, Elhokar really grows as a leader and as he grows he begins to display Windrunner traits. We all assume that it's because of his proximity to Kaladin but, in reality, as Elhokar takes back his throne he speaks the words and is revealed to be a full blown Windrunner. I know it is a long shot given that Elhokar has such a long way to go to embody the Windrunner traits, but that is my fun fan fiction for the day.

I would like to edit my prediction. I still believe Elhokar and Kaladin work to save Kholin, however throughout the arc Elhokar will absorb stormlight and glow or perform stormlight aided feats. It will still be assumed that it's his proximity to Kaladin that is the cause however in the end Elhokar speaks the second ideal of the Order of Willshapers. I think his personality is far more fitting with them than the Windrunners. As far as Elhokar seeing cryptics means he is a Lightweaver, we don't know what the spren that bond with Willshapers look like so perhaps they are similar. Also, I think the juxtaposition (love getting to use that word) of discussion of methods of travel to the various oathgates and Elhokar's desire to promote his uncle and save his kingdom is another point in favor of him being a Willshaper being that transportation is one of the surges of the Willshapers. In my mind it's as though Sanderson is trying to get us to associate Elhokar with travel, just somewhat subtly.

 

Also, I am 100% in the "Adolin is a Knights Radiant" camp specifically, obviously, Edgedancer. His Shardblade once belonged to an Edgedancer (props to WhiteLeepard for that info) and Adolin has an incredibly intimate relationship with his that sword. I think that the way Sanderson describes Adolin's smooth fighting style might also be subtly pointing towards his abrasion surge. Perhaps his vision in these three chapters wasn't Renarin's doing but a manifestation of the Edgedancer's progression surge. If this has already been suggested then feel free to pelt me rotten virtual fruit.

 

[the_archduke]

1 hour ago, What's a Seawolf? said:

New theory:

Adolin IS banished.  However, unofficially, Dalinar is really sending him on a mission to somehow persuade uncooperative nations to join the cause.

Adolin ends up in Azir and meets everyone's favorite street rat.

Lift not only helps Adolin revive his blade, but teaches him how to Edgedance.

Adolin goes from Highprince and at the top of polite society to surfing down hallways on his butt occasionally stealing dinner.

Everyone lives happily ever after.

 

And since the second half of the series is a decade or more after the first half... Adolin and Lift will be a couple by then.

 

But Shalladin still won't happen.

Edited September 20, 2017 by the_archduke

[What's a Seawolf?]

37 minutes ago, redbishop said:

I'm not even sure that Adolin could reasonably allow himself to be punished.  One, Kaladin would probably imprison himself in protest, probably at a time he is SORELY NEEDED.  Elhokar views Kal as his last hope, and that is before the obligatory Kal-saving-his-butt (or maybe vice-versa) in Kholinar.

Beyond that, Adolin's soldiers were left for dead by Sadeus.  Adolin was visibly instrumental in the holdout, and is well-liked by his men.  I think the Kholin princedom would be strained to the point of leaving Alethkar rather than permit that.

Not that I think that will happen - although what would happen if an independent Highprince Adolin swore the same fealty oath to Dalinar that Elhokar did?

That's a really good point.  If Kal is in the vicinity when the punishment is going down, I could see him very easily doing the same thing Adolin did when Kal was punished.

I'm trying to think if his oaths would get in the way, hard to protect others when you're stuck in jail or exiled, but just the threat of Kal doing it could sway the punishment to something lighter or none at all.

[Toaster Retribution]

I'll never understand the shipping wars. 

[WhiteLeeopard]

16 minutes ago, Toaster Retribution said:

I'll never understand the shipping wars. 

Ideally I'd see all the relationships either marry or be dissolved so we get them out of the way. If that can't happen, I don't want two main characters to fall in a relationship because:

Unbalanced screentime compared to all the others

Force two characters that are doing wildly different things together, meaning one would be limited.

Example, mistborn era 1 and 2

Spoiler

Elend ends up been a warrior to keep up with his wife

Steris ends up running around on adventures to keep up with her fiance.

Yes, I know these things happen organically, but truth is, if two people come together they spend time together. Their interests end up aligning, and their actions too. There are cases when what they do can compliment each other, but there are other times when they just... don't. 

[Nymeros]

On 9/19/2017 at 1:51 PM, Azul said:

You forgot to add they also have rectangular pupils.  Not sure what it means, other than they have mastered sage mode.

......I love you. 

In truth I think they're just alien horses though.

[CaptainRyan]

1 hour ago, Ramza1890 said:

Perhaps his vision in these three chapters wasn't Renarin's doing but a manifestation of the Edgedancer's progression surge.

I believe that if Adolin was manifesting surges then his blade would scream at him when he summoned it.

[Hischier]

53 minutes ago, WhiteLeeopard said:

Ideally I'd see all the relationships either marry or be dissolved so we get them out of the way. If that can't happen, I don't want two main characters to fall in a relationship because:

Unbalanced screentime compared to all the others

Force two characters that are doing wildly different things together, meaning one would be limited.

Example, mistborn era 1 and 2

  Reveal hidden contents

Elend ends up been a warrior to keep up with his wife

Steris ends up running around on adventures to keep up with her fiance.

Yes, I know these things happen organically, but truth is, if two people come together they spend time together. Their interests end up aligning, and their actions too. There are cases when what they do can compliment each other, but there are other times when they just... don't. 

That would be boring to me. I don't really want a love story that completely dominates the narrative, but I like to have something going on in that department.

However I don't get the shipping wars (emphasis on wars) for Stormlight either. I'm a Shalladin fan, myself (I'm really surprised at how many people seem strongly against that) but if it doesn't happen it's not the end of the world and I certainly won't be disappointed if Shallan and Adolin end up staying together. As long as it's a good story that makes sense I'm open minded on that front. I just liked the Shalladin scenes a lot so I want to see more of that. 

Edited September 20, 2017 by Hischier

[WhiteLeeopard]

I always find in stories family dynamics, sibling relationships, and most importantly friendship bonds to be the most interesting to read about. Which is why my favorite ship is Kadolin . Not that I want them to end together, just to have scenes bickering . Although Syl and Kaladin are also fun to read.