[OB] Oathbringer chapters 10-12

[Edvarin]

1. Kaladin isn't the only one who can make the trip, or even the best choice. We're forgetting that in the Cognitive realm, you can travel vast distances instantaneously. Any Radiant who can access Shadesmar could make the trip in a matter of minutes. Jasnah could do it easily, though she will be in Kholinar at some point. Shallan can do it, but Jasnah asked her to wait for training. Shallan thinks Jasnah is dead though, so might make the attempt...

 

2. I think the Everstorm is only awakening the parshmen. They become Parshendi the first time through. In WoR they did some sort of ritual and Bonded with the red spren to become Stormform didn't they? Of course, I think most of those were wiped out in the battle, but I'm sure some got away. These are probably leading the others and working to make other Stormforms.

 

3. Dalinar said the Honorblade might work. He doesn't know. Those swords are a lot different. The difference between a Shardblade and a Radiant blade is that the spren is alive. The Bond is in effect. Honorblades allow Stormlight and Lashings and stuff, but no Bond, no spren.

 

4. I think Dalinar is going to take a new path. One similar to the Warlord path, but tempered with his new personality and outlook. And maybe Taravingian might actually help. Though if that happens, I think he'll get caught and he won't be forgiven. Adolin on the other hand, I think will admit that he killed Sadeas to his father. The princedom will go to Renarin, he'll lose his Plate and Blade and he'll serve some jail time., Thats it.

[Emerald101]

1 minute ago, Edvarin said:

1. Kaladin isn't the only one who can make the trip, or even the best choice. We're forgetting that in the Cognitive realm, you can travel vast distances instantaneously. Any Radiant who can access Shadesmar could make the trip in a matter of minutes. Jasnah could do it easily, though she will be in Kholinar at some point. Shallan can do it, but Jasnah asked her to wait for training. Shallan thinks Jasnah is dead though, so might make the attempt...

 

2. I think the Everstorm is only awakening the parshmen. They become Parshendi the first time through. In WoR they did some sort of ritual and Bonded with the red spren to become Stormform didn't they? Of course, I think most of those were wiped out in the battle, but I'm sure some got away. These are probably leading the others and working to make other Stormforms.

 

3. Dalinar said the Honorblade might work. He doesn't know. Those swords are a lot different. The difference between a Shardblade and a Radiant blade is that the spren is alive. The Bond is in effect. Honorblades allow Stormlight and Lashings and stuff, but no Bond, no spren.

 

4. I think Dalinar is going to take a new path. One similar to the Warlord path, but tempered with his new personality and outlook. And maybe Taravingian might actually help. Though if that happens, I think he'll get caught and he won't be forgiven. Adolin on the other hand, I think will admit that he killed Sadeas to his father. The princedom will go to Renarin, he'll lose his Plate and Blade and he'll serve some jail time., Thats it.

1. The cognitive realm is used for worldhopping because distances are compressed where there isn't sentient thought. Distances are expanded where sentient beings are common. So this would not be efficient. Also, Shallan's transportation only allows here to see into the cognitive, not transform into investiture (speculation) and visit it. That requires transportation. Brandon describes what Shallan does as more spectral projection-like.

2. Possible, though during the Negotiations with the Azish they mention certain parshendi which sound a lot like they have various voidforms. I doubt any of the ones from the battle of Narak could've made it there in time.

3. WoB says Honorblades can work the Oathgates, and that they'll try it in this book.

4. If Adolin's actions go public, I expect banishment at the least. Like Calderis said, the remaining Highprinces are not going to take something like that sitting down.

[yulerule]

*Ignoring the entire Adolin speculation* I'm not invested (ha) in any theory, so I feel that you're all like a dog chasing its tail. Or like 3 blind men looking at a clod of mud, and never having heard of plants before trying to imagine what can grow out of it. ( Sorry, but you guys are rehashing the same thing endlessly)

 

I've been thinking more about Plate. I think it's pretty important that each section of plate (gauntlet, greave, etc) has a seed from which it can be regenerated. I'm not sure what that means, but it's relevant, I think.

During the duel, Kaladin grabbed a gauntlet, and when it was cracked enough to shatter, he kept feeding it stormlight so it would stay together.

I'm not sure if there is a WoB for this, or it's just a theory: when a KR is wearing (true/live) plate, they don't lose stormlight, they retain it perfectly.

Stormlight makes KR super-strong,fast, etc. So does (dead) plate for regular people. So a KR in Plate - is the superness additive, or does Plate function differently for a KR? I'm leaning towards function differently. Might it be a last resort source of Stormlight?

From above, on one hand KR can feed stormlight to plate so it doesn't shatter ( though maybe they don't need to for live plate. - Deadplate shatters with enough impacts. Blades are indestructible. So sprenshields like Syl was can take way more punishment than Plate.

 On the other hand, whole suit preserves a KR's stormlight - so it doesn't make sense that broken plate would suck out stormlight (to fix itself)

 

I'm not sure where I'm going with this - just theorizing out loud. I'm pretty sure we'll learn more about all this in this book. Also pretty sure that subspren forming plate isn't all of it, that were missing something.

 

[Edvarin]

20 minutes ago, Emerald101 said:

1. The cognitive realm is used for worldhopping because distances are compressed where there isn't sentient thought. Distances are expanded where sentient beings are common. So this would not be efficient. Also, Shallan's transportation only allows here to see into the cognitive, not transform into investiture (speculation) and visit it. That requires transportation. Brandon describes what Shallan does as more spectral projection-like.

2. Possible, though during the Negotiations with the Azish they mention certain parshendi which sound a lot like they have various voidforms. I doubt any of the ones from the battle of Narak could've made it there in time.

3. WoB says Honorblades can work the Oathgates, and that they'll try it in this book.

4. If Adolin's actions go public, I expect banishment at the least. Like Calderis said, the remaining Highprinces are not going to take something like that sitting down.

1. I actually did not know that. Thank you. Though it should still be as fast as Kaladin though, for Jasnah at least.

 

2. I don't know. They move a lot faster than a regular human could. Probably not as fast as Kaladin of course...

 

3. Another thing I missed!

 

4. That would definitely happen in normal times, but this is a Desolation. I don't think they will throw away a good warrior. Make him pay yes. I stand by my original theory.

[iamstick]

I'm still holding out hope that all the Kholins have to opt out of ruling by virtue of Radiance, and they let Sebarial and Paloma run everything domestically.

[Nashan’Elin]

8 minutes ago, iamstick said:

I'm still holding out hope that all the Kholins have to opt out of ruling by virtue of Radiance, and they let Sebarial and Paloma run everything domestically.

And within days, Alethkar becomes the best-run kingdom in all of Roshar. 

[Darkness]

8 hours ago, WhiteLeeopard said:

Nightblood to the rescue . But in all honestly I doubt the living spren would consider than an upgrade .

I'm very much curious to see Nightblood talk with a spren. Wonder if the spren would be climbing the walls to get away from him or if they would be okay with Nightblood's existence.

I don't really think there is a precedent for removing dead Shardblades. If my suspicions are true, then Shardblades only die when the radiant sufficiently betrays their oaths. This was done en masse during the Recreance, but I suspect it was an extremely rare event during the Golden Era of the Radiants. Now that I think about it more, what I would personally do is burn the Radiant's body (the betrayer), and lay the spren (the betrayed) to rest in their native land (Shadesmar). It's possible there are a bunch of dead Shardblades hanging out in the Cognitive Realm. But again, I get the feeling it was a very rare event up until suddenly it all happened at once.

Generally when a Radiant died of natural causes or trauma, I don't believe the spren would die alongside them. More likely they lost their ties to the Physical Realm and returned to Shadesmar, recovered with time, and eventually chose a new person to bond.

So by the time there actually were a bunch of dead Shardblades to worry about, there were suddenly no Radiants or living Shardblades to do the worrying.

It isn't my working theory, but it would actually make a good deal of sense if the order that remained had at least partial access to Shadesmar (explains why there aren't more blades).

[Djarskublar]

Alright, finally getting around to posting on this.

Personal theory: Elhokar is going to be the Windrunner we get saying Oaths in this book. He is super idolizing our surly Windrunner friend, and actively trying to protect the citizens of Kholinar. This theory only applies if he doesn't end up a Lightweaver, since the Cryptics are watching him.

I'm calling that the Oathgates will get opened pretty quickly so that everyone can get together and start researching. This is supposed to be a largely lore oriented book anyway. I'm honestly really excited to see if we get a 100 page expo dump, which would be fantastic (for those of us with patience, anyway).

Calling something else in advance: not all of the Listeners will end up on the wrong side, and I'm not even counting the exiles of Narak. There probably aren't enough Odiumspren to go around, since there's probably a lot more of them now than in the past. In the past it was probably more like the orcs coming down from their peaks to pillage, and now they are more cultivated. My bet is that the Listeners will form their own nations, and some of them will go to war to carve out their own place in the world, independent of the influence of Odium. I just can't see humanity surviving with them being so passive right now considering how ill prepared they are, and with all the logistical issues the humans will have. I'm also expecting a fair number of Listeners to join team Urithiru, again not counting the Narak exiles. They are clearly gearing up for invasion, but I can see it going both ways, depending on how everything plays out. I'm really interested to see where this goes.

[BlackYeti]

7 minutes ago, Djarskublar said:

Personal theory: Elhokar is going to be the Windrunner we get saying Oaths in this book. He is super idolizing our surly Windrunner friend, and actively trying to protect the citizens of Kholinar. This theory only applies if he doesn't end up a Lightweaver, since the Cryptics are watching him.

And yet, he's giving away his authority to Dalinar. The Windrunners' secondary Divine Attribute is leadership, is it not? Would this action not be in conflict with that?

[Nashan’Elin]

1 minute ago, BlackYeti said:

And yet, he's giving away his authority to Dalinar. The Windrunners' secondary Divine Attribute is leadership, is it not? Would this action not be in conflict with that?

Kaladin refers to Dalinar as his commanding officer basically all the time, and there's no problem there. There's nothing wrong with being a leader who's not the very top of the totem pole. 

Besides, Elhokar also made Dalinar agree that he (Elhokar) would be sovereign in Alethkar, and Dalinar would have to go through him. That's pretty leader-y.

[maxal]

2 hours ago, Calderis said:

The other Highprinces will not simply lie back when one of their own has been murdered. It doesn't matter that Sadeas was losing political ground. 

His attack on Dalinar is not the same. Dalinar lived, and as much as everyone knows what he tried, Dalinar publicly acknowledged his story as correct. 

The loyal armies argument doesn't work either. Bridge Four and House Kholin are loyal yes. To house Kholin. There's plenty of other armies. 

Saying that Adolin is suddenly immune to punishment is remarkably short sighted. 

While running tonight, I tried to mentally summarize what we know of the existing Highprinces.

Aladar, Sebrarial and Roion are Dalinar's allies. While both Aladar and Sebrarial expressed happiness at seeing Sadeas's death body, we haven't gotten a reaction from Roion's son. It was briefly mentioned in book how he was struggling to take control of the remnant of his princedom... It made me wondered if Roion's son's authority will not end up being challenged by one of the other lords... Jakamav perhaps? Thus, while I think Aladar and Sebrarial will remain loyal and be willing to brush away the fact Adolin murdered Sadeas, I am unsure about Roion. I would say it could go both ways.

Ruthar was Sadeas's major ally: a powerful princedom who certainly hates the Kholin and Adolin more specifically. If Ialai is looking for allies, I would think Ruthar would support any action being openly taken against Highprince Adolin. Would he be bold enough to jeopardized the kingdom in a time of war? I cannot say, his intentions are not well known.

Hatham currently seems to be allied with Dalinar, but it isn't clear where he would align himself. The others are a mystery.

So while others have brought the argument there might be a legal way for Elhokar to trial a Highprince, my impressions are it is a rare occurrence. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised it never happened before from known memories. It would set a gigantic precedent and it would imply the king really putting his hands into how the princedoms are managed... Now, say you are a Highprince, assume you aren't Ruthar or Sadeas's heir, even if you are upset by Adolin murdering Sadeas, would you honestly want to set a precedent where the king trials a Highprince? Are you really so clean, so honorable, so perfect you would not fear the king would look more closely into your own affairs? Would you really want to acknowledge the king has decisive power as to whom is a Highprince? It is one thing for the law to say the king theoretically has this power, it is another thing to have him use it.

It is thus I wonder how many of those wonderful fellows will truly think it is within their personal best interest to trial Highprince Adolin. I think it can be argued many wouldn't think it is within their personal best interests to have one of their own be disposed by the king. In this optic, by becoming Highprince, Adolin does inherit of an envious position where, even if he murdered Sadeas, he may get away with it.

2 hours ago, BlackYeti said:

I agree with @Calderis here. At the very least the Sadeas princedom would declare war on the Kholin princedom. The only reason that Dalinar did not do that following the Tower was that he was concerned for Alethkar's stability. Sadeas, on the other hand, did not care for it in the slightest; in fact he was actively working against it. Therefore we can assume that his successor probably won't be similarly inhibited.

Adolin could easily be put into a position where he had to accept judgement in order to preserve the peace.

I would say the Sadeas's princedom's reaction will be tied to whom is elected as the next Highprince. It may be this individual will not be hostile to Dalinar. It may even be he'll be glad Torol is dead because it gave him a career advancement opportunity. I wouldn't take it for granted the successor will be another scumbag: it seems probable, but we can't be certain.

I agree he could end up in a position where he has to accept judgment, but I persist in arguing it really isn't within many people's interest to trial him.

[BlackYeti]

2 minutes ago, Nashan'Elin said:

Kaladin refers to Dalinar as his commanding officer basically all the time, and there's no problem there. There's nothing wrong with being a leader who's not the very top of the totem pole. 

Besides, Elhokar also made Dalinar agree that he (Elhokar) would be sovereign in Alethkar, and Dalinar would have to go through him. That's pretty leader-y.

Kaladin's never actually given up his position in favour of someone else though. He's only ever worked his way upward. Elhokar seems to be going in the opposite trajectory.

I'll also point out that Jezrien was king of the Heralds, not Ishar. I suspect that Dalinar may be misinterpreting the role that he is meant to fulfill. He was told to "unite them", not to lead them, and the Bondsmiths' Divine Attribute, guiding, is not the same as leading. As such, I suspect that Kaladin's relationship with Dalinar will not remain the way it currently is indefinitely: it will need to change in order for both of them to progress.

[Nashan’Elin]

2 minutes ago, BlackYeti said:

Kaladin's never actually given up his position in favour of someone else though. He's only ever worked his way upward. Elhokar seems to be going in the opposite trajectory.

I'll also point out that Jezrien was king of the Heralds, not Ishar. I suspect that Dalinar may be misinterpreting the role that he is meant to fulfill. He was told to "unite them", not to lead them, and the Bondsmiths' Divine Attribute, guiding, is not the same as leading. As such, I suspect that Kaladin's relationship with Dalinar will not remain the way it currently is indefinitely: it will need to change in order for both of them to progress.

Elhokar's actually not changed his position. He still is the king of Alethkar, he's just accepted a highking above him instead of letting Dalinar walk all over him. I think he's actually leading more, since he's taking responsibility for his kingdom more. 

Your second point does make sense. I guess I totally forgot that Jezrien had been the king of Heralds. It'll be interesting to see how Dalinar and Kaladin's relationship will evolve. I can't ever see Kaladin leading Dalinar, though...

[BlackYeti]

8 minutes ago, Nashan'Elin said:

Elhokar's actually not changed his position. He still is the king of Alethkar, he's just accepted a highking above him instead of letting Dalinar walk all over him. I think he's actually leading more, since he's taking responsibility for his kingdom more.

Thus is really just semantics though. The fact is that before this chapter, Elhokar was subject to no-one, answerable to no-one (at least in principle, if not in practice). 

He has now sought to change this by swearing to obey Dalinar, and we all know how important oaths are to the spren. His position is irrevocably altered now, even if his title remains the same.

You do, however, raise a good point in that he may actually end up leading more as a result of this. If nothing else, he could potentially learn from that, and maybe come back from this at a later point. I do however feel that he would be better suited for a different Order, if indeed he is suited for any.

[Frostlander]

15 minutes ago, Nashan'Elin said:

I guess I totally forgot that Jezrien had been the king of Heralds. It'll be interesting to see how Dalinar and Kaladin's relationship will evolve. I can't ever see Kaladin leading Dalinar, though...

I've thought for a while that the Ishar/Jezrien relationship was similar to societies (including medieval Europe) that had--in theory--"secular" and "spiritual" leaders. I imagine that this is where we may end up in the series, though it could take some time and get a bit awkward.

In terms of leadership in Alethkar and Roshar, is it possible that we are overestimating the long-term viability of the continent's political hierarchies and judicial systems? Possibly even overestimating their viability as polities?

It seems like there are some leaders who are trying to rebuild and are still in "pre-Everstorm" mentalities. How long can Azir cast its long, long shadow and produce affidavits? It will either be conquered or start conquering. In Urithiru, Dalinar has three Highprinces (if we count Adolin) and one "Highking," and I still don't think that Dalinar should be a secular leader. The rest of the Highprinces are running amok or possibly repositioning themselves.

It may take a few hundred pages to see this decay start to unfold, but I think we can't assume that the same kingdoms and systems will still be in place. What direction it will take I'm not sure, but this is the True Desolation. We may be reading the "upbeat" part of the book... It's hard to imagine we'll see a fun KR training montage that gets everyone ready to fight successfully for the status quo--especially with 7 more books after this.

[MPHRD]

Something is seriously up with the Azish. First the change from the Gawxs resurrection mix up, the weird back and forth and how they are communicating with the parshmen. It even cuts off real fast. Also why not mention Lift? I think something might be changing whats being sent back and forth or some is there threatening them or something of that sort. Maybe parshendi "Smoke form"? they are mentioned in the song and this seems like a possibility. 

[Nashan’Elin]

@FrostlanderYikes, yeah. I can't imagine that if this Desolation will be anything like the others, the kingdoms we know will be able to stick around. I am curious what will happen with those two kingdoms always described as fighting. The Emul and Tukari? Or something? Will all of Roshar band together against this threat, or will infighting just make everything that much harder?

I can see this as being the nice part of the book. We have Kaladin smiling, and Adolin and Renarin being brotherly, and things are just way too happy. It's gonna hurt when things go sideways. 

[Djarskublar]

18 minutes ago, BlackYeti said:

Thus is really just semantics though. The fact is that before this chapter, Elhokar was subject to no-one, answerable to no-one (at least in principle, if not in practice). 

He has now sought to change this by swearing to obey Dalinar, and we all know how important oaths are to the spren. His position is irrevocably altered now, even if his title remains the same.

You do, however, raise a good point in that he may actually end up leading more as a result of this. If nothing else, he could potentially learn from that, and maybe come back from this at a later point. I do however feel that he would be better suited for a different Order, if indeed he is suited for any.

Naw, the way I see it is that Dalinar just gave up the Regency. Elhokar has always been king, just in the same way that a four year old can be 'king.' Elhokar just basically said that he was done with that, and made Dalinar recognize his authority. Simple. On the other hand, he still needed Dalinar to really be in charge of things, since he's the only one in a position to get things done and, y'know, save the world. Elhokar's solution was really quite elegant, I think.

 

5 minutes ago, Frostlander said:

I've thought for a while that the Ishar/Jezrien relationship was similar to societies (including medieval Europe) that had--in theory--"secular" and "spiritual" leaders. I imagine that this is where we may end up in the series, though it could take some time and get a bit awkward.

In terms of leadership in Alethkar and Roshar, is it possible that we are overestimating the long-term viability of the continent's political hierarchies and judicial systems? Possibly even overestimating their viability as polities?

It seems like there are some leaders who are trying to rebuild and are still in "pre-Everstorm" mentalities. How long can Azir cast its long, long shadow and produce affidavits? It will either be conquered or start conquering. In Urithiru, Dalinar has three Highprinces (if we count Adolin) and one "Highking," and I still don't think that Dalinar should be a secular leader. The rest of the Highprinces are running amok or possibly repositioning themselves.

It may take a few hundred pages to see this decay start to unfold, but I think we can't assume that the same kingdoms and systems will still be in place. What direction it will take I'm not sure, but this is the True Desolation. We may be reading the "upbeat" part of the book... It's hard to imagine we'll see a fun KR training montage that gets everyone ready to fight successfully for the status quo--especially with 7 more books after this.

What with the voidbringers actions that we've seen so far, my vision of the desolation has already been shattered beyond recognition. In a desolation of old, humanity would already be gone, frankly. The parshmen would have suddenly turned into destroyers right in the middle of doing something, and just ripped right through all the surprised civilians around them. With no civilians to provide support and maintain infrastructure, there is no way to maintain any kind of military presence. Most of humanity would have died within an hour, with the rest to get systematically picked off until it's done. I couldn't reconcile that idea with 10 books before, but it looks like we are going to end up with a drawn out campaign in the first 5, and who knows what in the back 5. I'm really interested to see where this goes, especially since I think humanity will end up with Listener allies. I can't see Brandon wasting their potential to make them just the next orc variant... It's just gotta be better than that.

[Nymeros]

 

2 hours ago, Edvarin said:

1. I actually did not know that. Thank you. Though it should still be as fast as Kaladin though, for Jasnah at least.

Wasn't it established that Jasnah was clueless regarding transportation? It took her a whole book just to get back to the real world and even then she landed in the middle of nowhere.

49 minutes ago, Nashan'Elin said:

 I can't ever see Kaladin leading Dalinar, though...

Well Dalinar is dying on this book, so yeah.

[Nashan’Elin]

2 minutes ago, Nymeros said:

 

Wasn't it established that Jasnah was clueless regarding transportation? It took her a whole book just to get back to the real world and even then she landed in the middle of nowhere.

Well Dalinar is dying on this book, so yeah.

I don't know that it was "confirmed", and Jasnah was also busy chatting up highspren, but she's probably still pretty clueless. 

I hope he's not dying. Unless he basically completes his arc this book, it'd seem like some wasted potential to have him die. 

[Toaster Retribution]

For the Adolin discussion, I'm all with the "he shall be punished"-faction. The Highprinces will not like setting a new precedent for knifing eachother in the eyes. They prefer political games to wrestling. I can also see people argue that Adolin wasn't Highprince when he killed Sadeas, and so he shouldn't be tried as one. And if the Highprinces don't do anything, Dalinar still could, as High King. Furthermore, I can see Aladar being ready to punish Adolin, depending on Dalinars reaction. And he is Highprince of Information, so he might be able to do something. I doubt Adolin will get away.

 

[BlackYeti]

27 minutes ago, Djarskublar said:

Naw, the way I see it is that Dalinar just gave up the Regency. Elhokar has always been king, just in the same way that a four year old can be 'king.' Elhokar just basically said that he was done with that, and made Dalinar recognize his authority. Simple. On the other hand, he still needed Dalinar to really be in charge of things, since he's the only one in a position to get things done and, y'know, save the world. Elhokar's solution was really quite elegant, I think.

Oh, I don't disagree that it was an elegant solution, I just don't think that it's the solution that a potential Windrunner would have come up with.

Of course, if Elhokar were a potential Windrunner, I doubt that he would have ended up in that position in the first place.

[Darkness]

45 minutes ago, MPHRD said:

Something is seriously up with the Azish. First the change from the Gawxs resurrection mix up, the weird back and forth and how they are communicating with the parshmen. It even cuts off real fast. Also why not mention Lift? I think something might be changing whats being sent back and forth or some is there threatening them or something of that sort. Maybe parshendi "Smoke form"? they are mentioned in the song and this seems like a possibility. 

I know that Gawx was more assertive than the viziers had thought he would be, but it's still completely possible that the viziers have basically taken over Azir. The response Dalinar got from Yanagawn sounded way too bureaucratic to be Gawx by himself. I'm thinking the viziers are currently obfuscating the political climate and Gawx has very little real power.

Re: @BlackYeti I agree with this, but even if I didn't... Adolin seems like the type of guy (read: honorable) that would hold himself up to a certain standard. Yes, he is certainly freaked out by his killing of Sadeas and the potential fallout, so he isn't bringing it into the light anytime soon. However, I think if 'they' (in the vague sense) found him out, and Elhokar decided to put Adolin on trial, then Adolin is the type of guy that would accept the consequences of his actions. If Elhokar demoted him and took away his Shards or exiled him, Adolin might ask for a formal duel to have the Almighty prove his side, but short of that I think Adolin will accept Elhokar's judgement because that's just the kind of guy he is.

Disclaimer: The above is just my opinion, and may or may not have any basis in fact or bearing on reality.

Edited September 21, 2017 by Darkness

[Erunion]

You guys rock, and have taken my upvote limit two days in a row. 

 

On the Listeners: I suspect that they are far short on voidspren - so Odium and the Unmade have been creating armies of parshendi and seeding them with voidspren to rule/control them. 

 

On Jasnah: I think she's getting the hang of Transportation. I also really hope she shows up soon! 

 

On Adolin: his murder investigation will likely play out in a way none of us expect, and it will have plenty of good drama and interesting story @maxal - have faith in our Sanderson  

 

On Dalinar: I sincerely hope he doesn't die this book. Poor Navani if he does! But he'll have to learn to be culturally inclusive; that Urithiru cannot be Alethi, and that the Radiants must be above politics. 

 

Misc: Syl is awesome, Elhokar/Kaladin buddy cop is a fantastic idea, but I think that Elhokar will be facing tragedy in Kholinar - likely his wife or his son or both dead. Either it will crush him or he'll rise to the situation and become a great character. We shall see. 

[Guest]

2 hours ago, maxal said:

I would say the Sadeas's princedom's reaction will be tied to whom is elected as the next Highprince. It may be this individual will not be hostile to Dalinar. It may even be he'll be glad Torol is dead because it gave him a career advancement opportunity. I wouldn't take it for granted the successor will be another scumbag: it seems probable, but we can't be certain.

The people would never accept him that way. They will want vengeance, we don't know what kind of guy Sadeas was to his people. Maybe he actually was loved by them? Either way, it is the way of the Alethi to exact vengeance.

On the Listeners: I think, that Eshonai will somehow get rid of her stormform and gather some other Parshendi to form a splinter group, which assist Dalinar and the Radiants. I just can't see her staying as an antagonist.

Edited September 21, 2017 by SLNC