The Art of Game Creation

[Illwei]

1 minute ago, Straw said:

Based on what I've seen on other sites, I think games with longer cycles like this can be pretty annoying to play since you have to wait so long to get results. Also, I feel like you'd run into significant issues with player burnout or inactivity.

Then you wouldn't be my target audience, but also why I'm wanting to run it as a BT, and then just close it when i find people getting too burnt out. That's why I'd be looking at players who like to pop in every day, once a day, comment on things going on and then leave. There are players right now who play like that in normal games, even QFs, and it's hard to mesh those with people who like to post more, which we also have quite a few of.

The reason people get burnt out in long form games is because they are the type of player who feels the need to threadcamp and sit and wait and interact realtime with everyone, when that isn't how you play longform games. It means people like Tani who aren't on on sundays don't miss a whole or half a cycle, it means people like Exp who have to dissappear for days don't have to get replaced out.

I was going to include a bit about the similarity with vanilla games in the problem about keeping people engaged, but that isn't really applicable because the goal would be to see if anyone would be interested in trying it out because maybe it could suit their playstyle, rather than try and get people who don't think they could play a longform mafia game and try and accommodate it to them.

3 minutes ago, Straw said:

This could be interesting. My main question is whether the twilight period is even necessary, since I'm not sure how much info players would get from the one night kill. Also, the elim team would have to be very small, in order to counterbalance every vote essentially being a day one vote.

The Elim team would be whatever the normal ratio is. The goal would be to test the accuracy of D1 reads. By saying this, you imply that you think D1 accuracy is >rand, when a lot of other people think it's very <rand. (see Archer saying "we're not going to kill an Elim today, but-" in every game).

[Straw he/him]

9 minutes ago, Illwei said:

The Elim team would be whatever the normal ratio is. The goal would be to test the accuracy of D1 reads. By saying this, you imply that you think D1 accuracy is >rand, when a lot of other people think it's very <rand. (see Archer saying "we're not going to kill an Elim today, but-" in every game).

tbh I think it's good to have a game that the village actually has some chance of winning, since there's virtually no chance they'd win based only off of day one guesses. If you want to see if day one reads are better or worse than rand, why not tune the game so if village votes are random it's roughly a tossup? While this would normally just be done by altering the size of the elim team, you could also do other stuff like not giving the elims a kill / giving them limited kills in order to give the village more of an edge.

[Illwei]

Just now, Straw said:

tbh I think it's good to have a game that the village actually has some chance of winning, since there's virtually no chance they'd win based only off of day one guesses. If you want to see if day one reads are better or worse than rand, why not tune the game so if village votes are random it's roughly a tossup? While this would normally just be done by altering the size of the elim team, you could also do other stuff like not giving the elims a kill / giving them limited kills in order to give the village more of an edge.

1) it's a breaktank

2) it's directly to test the accuracy of D1 reads

3) I don't think people will care/get too attached about winning a game that they only play for 3 days

[xinoehp512 he/him]

Well, I was trying to make a Serial Killer + Neutral QF game in case I wind up running one soon, but I think it might be more of a MR now... which is unfortunate, as I don't have a spot on the MR list, and it took me almost a year to get as high as I have on the QF list.

Either way, feedback would be appreciated!

QF/MR##: What Money Cannot Buy

[Araris Valerian he/him]

20 minutes ago, xinoehp512 said:

Well, I was trying to make a Serial Killer + Neutral QF game in case I wind up running one soon, but I think it might be more of a MR now... which is unfortunate, as I don't have a spot on the MR list, and it took me almost a year to get as high as I have on the QF list.

Either way, feedback would be appreciated!

QF/MR##: What Money Cannot Buy

My initial feedback is that you should have some sort of restriction on what counts as a post for the “most posts” boxing award. A similar mechanic was run a while back with no such restriction and it was a nightmare.

[xinoehp512 he/him]

11 hours ago, Araris Valerian said:

My initial feedback is that you should have some sort of restriction on what counts as a post for the “most posts” boxing award. A similar mechanic was run a while back with no such restriction and it was a nightmare.

Fair enough! Perhaps posts over 200 words?

[Araris Valerian he/him]

20 minutes ago, xinoehp512 said:

Fair enough! Perhaps posts over 200 words?

Yeah, though you might want to also specify that the words need to be game related as well.

[xinoehp512 he/him]

9 hours ago, Araris Valerian said:

Yeah, though you might want to also specify that the words need to be game related as well.

Would RP be a problem, you think?

I would also appreciate feedback on the prices of items, if you see any glaring problems :P.

[Archer he/him]

@xinoehp512

--The Thief can identify Investigatior because they won't get boxings from them. Their wincon is survival and there's one elim, so identifying and killing the single elim is the quickest path to victory. So they're best off aligning with the village and serving as an alignment scanner. I suggest patching this by having the elim give a couple boxings of bank money to the Thief instead of giving nothing. 

--Perhaps limit people to not being able to win Loudest Voice multiple times/in a row. Obviously spam should be discouraged through some guidelines, but the bigger problem is actually that as a driver of discussion, it fails to motivate people much once it becomes clear that one or two people have developed a solid lead in that department. Ideally you'd have some kind of contribution ranking system, but anything you do will be gamed or be too much work to be worth it. Best idea I can come up with is doing something that prioritizes interaction over individual content production. Something like you get a point for every interaction you have with another person's post, such as group RPing or responding to ideas. It'll be GM work intensive though 

--If I vote Player X, then vote for Player Y, but in the meantime someone votes for Player X and that becomes a big train, I don't get credit for starting that train, right?

--Senators paying their hush money should be a passive action to avoid accidental deaths to that.

--If the Thief needs to earn 5 boxings C1, they can't do that without winning Loudest Voice or starting a train. Unless the theft money they steal can go into their hush money payment in that same rollover?

--Thief will kill someone C1 by robbing them of enough money to pay the hush money expense

--The inherent flaw of single elim games is the elim must be an active player, so GM selection bias can be predicted. And if an elim kill ever goes through and someone hasn't been around that round, they're automatically cleared. Personal preference is that an elim kill is always submitted on a random target as a passive action, then the elim submitting the kill overrides that choice.

--And don't underestimate player frustration with what will be a LOT of village flips. They know to expect it in this set up, so that's good, just keep an eye on the thread mood

--Can boxings ever be transferred besides by the Thief theft?

--you should run the numbers on whether Bodyguard can be abused by the minority alignments to forcibly win the game. Or make it so it can't be used twice in a row. Or add a fun auction element where people bid for that ability and only the highest bid takes it. I'm zeroing in on that one because it blocks the exe

--I'd also look into what's your ideal player count and how you plan to adjust the game for less or more participants. Stuff like rampant kills might be bad in a small group

Edit: if the thief is removed from consideration, 2 people that alignment scan each other are guaranteed to be good. That's when you divert your efforts towards giving them all the boxings so they can spam Bodyguard (allow them to win Loudest etc) . Eventually you're left with 2 guaranteed goods vs 1 elim, and they'll win the exe. Both sides use vote manip, so it cancels each other out.

Do you really need an alignment scanning option? 

Edited June 10, 2022 by Archer

[Araris Valerian he/him]

52 minutes ago, xinoehp512 said:

Would RP be a problem, you think?

I would also appreciate feedback on the prices of items, if you see any glaring problems :P.

RP wouldn't be a problem (and I'd consider that game-related anyways). I'm thinking more of 200 words of filler/nonsense.

[xinoehp512 he/him]

10 hours ago, Archer said:

--The Thief can identify Investigatior because they won't get boxings from them. Their wincon is survival and there's one elim, so identifying and killing the single elim is the quickest path to victory. So they're best off aligning with the village and serving as an alignment scanner. I suggest patching this by having the elim give a couple boxings of bank money to the Thief instead of giving nothing. 

The Safe sort of serves that purpose right now, but of course it won't work if the Thief gets lucky and targets the elim C1. I was toying with this idea, but worried that it might be too obvious that the boxing count was faked. Maybe that's not a reasonable worry though.

11 hours ago, Archer said:

Perhaps limit people to not being able to win Loudest Voice multiple times/in a row. Obviously spam should be discouraged through some guidelines, but the bigger problem is actually that as a driver of discussion, it fails to motivate people much once it becomes clear that one or two people have developed a solid lead in that department. Ideally you'd have some kind of contribution ranking system, but anything you do will be gamed or be too much work to be worth it. Best idea I can come up with is doing something that prioritizes interaction over individual content production. Something like you get a point for every interaction you have with another person's post, such as group RPing or responding to ideas. It'll be GM work intensive though 

Hmm. Active on the Floor measures interactions through quotes, perhaps Loudest Voice should also? I have a web scraper program that I could probably configure to count it up automatically. Not being able to win it twice in a row would also probably be a good addition.

11 hours ago, Archer said:

If I vote Player X, then vote for Player Y, but in the meantime someone votes for Player X and that becomes a big train, I don't get credit for starting that train, right?

Yes. At the end of the cycle, the oldest vote on every train receives the boxings for that train.

11 hours ago, Archer said:

Senators paying their hush money should be a passive action to avoid accidental deaths to that.

That is the intention. I'll clarify that.

11 hours ago, Archer said:

If the Thief needs to earn 5 boxings C1, they can't do that without winning Loudest Voice or starting a train. Unless the theft money they steal can go into their hush money payment in that same rollover?

Theft money can be used the cycle it is obtained, just like all other methods of earning boxings.

Also, a train can be only one person.

11 hours ago, Archer said:

Thief will kill someone C1 by robbing them of enough money to pay the hush money expense

The Thief should want to target the person with the most boxings, so the Loudest Voice or the leader of a vote train.

11 hours ago, Archer said:

The inherent flaw of single elim games is the elim must be an active player, so GM selection bias can be predicted. And if an elim kill ever goes through and someone hasn't been around that round, they're automatically cleared. Personal preference is that an elim kill is always submitted on a random target as a passive action, then the elim submitting the kill overrides that choice.

I had some ideas for a secret body-hopping mechanic, but that could also work.

11 hours ago, Archer said:

And don't underestimate player frustration with what will be a LOT of village flips. They know to expect it in this set up, so that's good, just keep an eye on the thread mood

Thanks for the heads up.

11 hours ago, Archer said:

Can boxings ever be transferred besides by the Thief theft?

No. (Senators are too selfish to ever share).

11 hours ago, Archer said:

you should run the numbers on whether Bodyguard can be abused by the minority alignments to forcibly win the game. Or make it so it can't be used twice in a row. Or add a fun auction element where people bid for that ability and only the highest bid takes it. I'm zeroing in on that one because it blocks the exe

Bodyguard doesn't block the exe. I should clarify that. There is no way to block the exe.

11 hours ago, Archer said:

Do you really need an alignment scanning option?

Hmm... probably not, now that I think about it.  The original purpose was to give the village something expensive to save up for.

11 hours ago, Araris Valerian said:

RP wouldn't be a problem (and I'd consider that game-related anyways). I'm thinking more of 200 words of filler/nonsense.

Naturally. Hopefully people can be trusted to be honorable about that kind of thing if asked politely.

[Archer he/him]

On 10/06/2022 at 10:08 AM, xinoehp512 said:

The Safe sort of serves that purpose right now, but of course it won't work if the Thief gets lucky and targets the elim C1. I was toying with this idea, but worried that it might be too obvious that the boxing count was faked. Maybe that's not a reasonable worry though.

Hmm. Active on the Floor measures interactions through quotes, perhaps Loudest Voice should also? I have a web scraper program that I could probably configure to count it up automatically. Not being able to win it twice in a row would also probably be a good addition.

Yes. At the end of the cycle, the oldest vote on every train receives the boxings for that train.

That is the intention. I'll clarify that.

Theft money can be used the cycle it is obtained, just like all other methods of earning boxings.

Also, a train can be only one person.

The Thief should want to target the person with the most boxings, so the Loudest Voice or the leader of a vote train.

I had some ideas for a secret body-hopping mechanic, but that could also work.

Thanks for the heads up.

No. (Senators are too selfish to ever share).

Bodyguard doesn't block the exe. I should clarify that. There is no way to block the exe.

Hmm... probably not, now that I think about it.  The original purpose was to give the village something expensive to save up for.

Naturally. Hopefully people can be trusted to be honorable about that kind of thing if asked politely.

The catch with Safes is while that increases the number of people who could be the elim, those who robberies succeed against will still be confirmed village. 

I think people get excited enough about the prospect of a personal kill ability that you could make that the top tier. It'd also help lengthen a small player count game. 

The rest of your responses are reasonable. Once you decide how each of the suggestions you're considering will end up, let me know and I'll reread through the doc again. 

By the way, the elim wincon should be parity, not outnumber, in my opinion. I'd hate to see them get to the end and lose to a coinflip exe. Or maybe move the NK to before the exe in the Order of Actions (which you should write out in the rules).  I'm trying to remember if there's a reason people don't normally put NK before exe

[xinoehp512 he/him]

On 6/11/2022 at 10:09 PM, Archer said:

The catch with Safes is while that increases the number of people who could be the elim, those who robberies succeed against will still be confirmed village. 

I think people get excited enough about the prospect of a personal kill ability that you could make that the top tier. It'd also help lengthen a small player count game. 

The rest of your responses are reasonable. Once you decide how each of the suggestions you're considering will end up, let me know and I'll reread through the doc again. 

By the way, the elim wincon should be parity, not outnumber, in my opinion. I'd hate to see them get to the end and lose to a coinflip exe. Or maybe move the NK to before the exe in the Order of Actions (which you should write out in the rules).  I'm trying to remember if there's a reason people don't normally put NK before exe

I've implemented your suggestions and made a few more updates.

I've also created a simpler version of the game better able to run as a QF: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1UmC7M3CFhSFesyEvDMwuWCG7eSpXiUzVJzeFt7i9d6U/edit

[Archer he/him]

43 minutes ago, xinoehp512 said:

I've implemented your suggestions and made a few more updates.

I've also created a simpler version of the game better able to run as a QF: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1UmC7M3CFhSFesyEvDMwuWCG7eSpXiUzVJzeFt7i9d6U/edit

With regards to the QF ruleset:

My brain always blanks on what the precedent here, so I'll ask how it'll go this game. If you're Assassinated before you submit say a Bribery action, does the vote manip still go through? (I think no because your bid is nullified)

I don't mind the possibility of multiple elims and losing the Thief, given the need to streamline it to run as a QF. You didn't specify if the elim kill is an action or not.

For higher player counts, I'd consider putting a hard cap on the number of boxings you can gather from Active on the Floor.

I worry about the risk involved with Blackmail, because if a bunch of people go inactive, it can lead to lots of death. But it's a QF and you can easily collect enough boxings to give yourself a buffer so this is fine. Just talk to your IM about your plan if say a bunch of people miss C1 for an unanticipated reason.

Speaking of IMs, I recommend reviewing how BT1 went because there's now some similarities. Also you should prep the action availability list in advance in your notes. Some GMs like to improvise it, but I feel it's fairer to make it in advance so you're not influenced by how the game plays out. If something isn't bought, does it remain in stock or does the supply list reset every cycle? Are people told if they succeed in buying things and what their boxing total is? 

I'd like it specified when bought actions apply. Do I buy a Bribe in the round I want to use it in, or a round in advance?

And I imagine exe candidates will blow their savings on Assassinations, so the extra cost won't be much of a deterrent. Not sure how those affect the balance - the impact of vig kills is a good conversation to have with an IM.

I'm quite impressed by the ruleset and I think it pulls together some fun elements while being simple enough for the format. Good job. You have my approval. I'll ping Araris to see if you can get a second. @Araris Valerian

I hope the BT will run as scheduled, but be prepared to bump your start date back if it's delayed. (Turns out the best way to break that game was a stubbornly low player count. :P) 

[Araris Valerian he/him]

1 hour ago, xinoehp512 said:

I've implemented your suggestions and made a few more updates.

I've also created a simpler version of the game better able to run as a QF: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1UmC7M3CFhSFesyEvDMwuWCG7eSpXiUzVJzeFt7i9d6U/edit

One question: Does your money get spent if your bid isn't accepted?

I'm also going to second Archer's suggestion for capping the boxings from Active on the Floor, but the details are up to you, so you also have my approval.

[xinoehp512 he/him]

3 hours ago, Archer said:

My brain always blanks on what the precedent here, so I'll ask how it'll go this game. If you're Assassinated before you submit say a Bribery action, does the vote manip still go through? (I think no because your bid is nullified)

Correct. Assassinated players cannot bribe. 

3 hours ago, Archer said:

And I imagine exe candidates will blow their savings on Assassinations, so the extra cost won't be much of a deterrent. Not sure how those affect the balance - the impact of vig kills is a good conversation to have with an IM.

To be safe, I'll populate the shop with the assumption that an Assassination will always be purchased when put up for sale.

3 hours ago, Archer said:

If something isn't bought, does it remain in stock or does the supply list reset every cycle?

 

Unpurchased items will remain in stock.

2 hours ago, Araris Valerian said:

Does your money get spent if your bid isn't accepted?

Yes.

Updates have been made, and rule clarifications added. Thank you!

[Araris Valerian he/him]

@xinoehp512 you can go ahead and post signups when you are ready.

[Mat he/him]

Finally thought of something worth using my pass on! MR##: Shadow Hunters

This is based off my favorite board game, one that you sadly can't buy anymore due to Z-man Games discontinuing its production. (Unless, that is, you don't mind spending 200+ dollars on e-bay). The board game itself is social deduction so I thought it'd fit quite nicely into SE!

As it turns out, it's... pretty complex but I think it works. As it stands a lot of the mechanics are mirrored from the board game mechanics, and ideally I'd change as little as possible from what I have written out now. The most flexible things for me are the hard percentage numbers, but I'm open to any suggestions as always. The win conditions and most of the mechanics I think are well balanced seeing as they actually exist in a product, but some things might have to be changed for a forum adaptation.

The most helpful critiquer would be someone who's played the actual board game, but I don't expect anyone here to have and it certianly isn't necessary to play it. Even if it would make critiquing and playing it alike easier.

The Clarifications section needs expanding. Help with that  I haven't got to the point of adding in the White/Black/Hermit item lists yet (Which will be links to separate google docs so this one doesn't grow exponentially) but a list of the corresponding cards can be found here. I don't think knowing the lists are essential for reviewing the game or even playing it, since again the mechanics have been proven. But they'll be there eventually, hopefully within 48 hours of this post. EDIT: Lists are in!

The rulebook for the actual board game can be found here.

Edited July 13, 2022 by Matrim's Dice

[Kasimir he/him]

Regardless of whether I might be taking on the next BT, I thought I'd put the ruleset here for commentary as I'm worried about sending it on to the committee in its current state. Based on some conversation with Ash and Claincy, and riding a Doctor Who high from the last episode.

BTXX: Irgendwie, Irgendwo, Irgendwann

Proposal:

Spoiler

This BT seeks to test out two interconnected mechanics:

1. Regeneration, as in Doctor Who, where a player can regenerate into another player upon death.

2. Evil Teams that are split across game times, requiring them to be lynched in the correct generation.

Some questions this BT seeks to answer:

• How does a GM balance for Elim teams that are non-synchronous? Can such a team even be balanced?

• Is a regeneration mechanic fundamentally unworkable, or in effect a glorified pinch-hitter mechanic? 

• Is this fair to the player who rands a later regeneration, and do a high number of kills/incentive to prompt regeneration make this more fair?

• Are such mechanics even fundamentally interesting or attractive to the playerbase, or are they merely distracting bells and whistles?

• Is it detrimental to player experience or engagement with the game if they cannot appear in the thread until they are due to regenerate?

 

 

General Rules:

Spoiler

1. This game follows the BT format with 12 hour cycles. PMs are closed unless otherwise indicated.

2. Voting is to be done in the thread. There is no minimum vote threshold for executions to take place. Ties will result in all the tied players being executed. Please colour-code your execution votes as follows: Wyrmhero [red and bold]. Retract your execution votes as follows: Wyrmhero [green and bold]. Please do not edit in your votes; double-posting is acceptable under these circumstances.

3. The Renegades know who each other are, and will have access to a faction doc to coordinate. Every cycle, they can submit a faction kill.

4. Each player has only one action per cycle. Players who are future (i.e. non current) regenerations cannot submit any action at all.

5. The Order of Actions is as follows:

-Rassilon
-Protect / Romana
-Execution / All Kills
-Messenger / Doctor / Archivist

6. There will be an inactivity filter in this game. Players who do not post for two cycles in a row, and do not communicate with the GM will be killed by the crossfire. This is a BT there are no pinch-hitters we die like Kas when Kas is in the mood to bait the NK.

7. Please @ me for clarificatory questions in thread, and bold them so I will pick them out. Alternatively, you can send them in your GM PM, but please bold them as well. Due to the pace of this game, I will not be answering any questions in docs. 

8. Have fun! =)

 

 

Win Conditions:

Spoiler

• The People of Gallifrey win when all the Renegades have been killed.

• The Renegades win when the current number of Renegades in the game at any given cycle outnumbers the current number of the People of Gallifrey in the same cycle.

 

 

Mechanics:

Spoiler

All Time Lords are able to regenerate. While some Time Lords are able to choose to regenerate, regeneration may be trauma-induced.

• When a Time Lord player is killed, they automatically regenerate, so long as they have remaining regenerations. This removes them from the game and replaces them with another player.

• A player’s regeneration may not have the same role or alignment.

• Each player will know who their direct regenerations or predecessors are. They will not know the roles or alignments of those players. For instance, Kas is the Doctor. He knows that Wyrm is his direct regeneration. However, Wyrm may not be the Doctor. Wyrm may have the role of the Master instead. It is Ren, Gamma’s regeneration, who has the role of the (next) Doctor.

• All Renegades begin in a shared faction doc, even if they have not yet appeared in the game, or have been killed. Renegades are permitted to share knowledge of their predecessors (if any) and regenerations (if any) with their team.

Deceased players, as well as players yet to be regenerated into the game, are all present in the Time Vortex doc. This doc will be kept strictly spoiler-free on the part of the GM and IM. A separate doc named the Nexus will be provided for spectators (if any.

 

 

Roles:

Spoiler

Time Lord: The Time Lords of Gallifrey are attuned to timelines, being able to sense the course of events that must and must not happen. They are also practically immortal, given their ability to regenerate. Each Time Lord has x regenerations left to them.

The Doctor: A Time Lord known for acting independently of the High Council and for his attachment to Earth, the Doctor has returned to Gallifrey in this time of crisis. Every cycle, he can temporarily pull one player out of their timestream (i.e. from the Time Vortex), in order to ask them one game-related question. The player must respond truthfully. This question will be conveyed via the player’s GM PM.

The Master: The Master is a Time Lord driven mad by gazing into the Untempered Schism, and seeks to destroy Gallifrey. If the Doctor targets the Master, he is incapacitated for two cycles and cannot take action.

Romana: As the current Lady President of Gallifrey, Romana retains significant influence over the High Council. Once every cycle, she may alter the vote of a player as she sees fit.

Rassilon: One of the great founders of Time Lord civilisation, Rassilon has been resurrected as the Time War rages on—and some whisper he may have designs on the presidency. Time Lords, and indeed, all of Gallifrey deeply respect Rassilon. Once a cycle, Rassilon may command a player to stop, effectively roleblocking them.

Gallifreyan Shock Infantry: Trained to fight and armed with time pendants that allow them to stay ten nanoseconds in time ahead of their opponents, Gallifreyan shock infantry are a  force to be reckoned with on the battlefield. Once every cycle, you may send in a kill on another player.

Gallifreyan Medic: Where others fight, you choose to defend life. Trained at the Academy, Gallifreyan medics are skilled at the art of saving lives. Once per cycle, you may target a player, protecting them from all attempts on their lives.

The Archivist: You are a Time Lord well-versed with the Matrix and other forms of information collection on Gallifrey. For this reason, you are able to trace the connections between incarnations of each Time Lord. Once per cycle, you may target a player, in order to discover their direct predecessor (if any) and their direct regeneration (if any.)

Gallifreyan Messenger: In this time of crisis, many of the Time Lords depend on your discretion. You run encrypted messages around the Citadel, and generally keep your mouth shut. Every cycle, you may open a single one-on-one PM with another player. The PM is set up by the GM.

Renegades: You believe that the ravages of the Time War have shown that Time Lords are irredeemably corrupt, and that the only way to resolve the war is by destroying the Time Lords for good before turning on the Daleks.

People of Gallifrey: While you may not be a Time Lord, you are still an inhabitant of Gallifrey. With the future of your homeworld at stake, you cannot afford to sit idly by and let the Time Lord war among themselves.

 

 

Mood Music:

Spoiler

 

 

 

Questions/Comments:

Spoiler

• I am wondering if it is too harsh to the Village if I refuse to guarantee that a regeneration will preserve the same role and alignment. Minimally, this seems to make the Archivist sort of pointless, though I envision the Archivist will help shed light into the kill decisions made by an Elim team (e.g. are they trying to team max?) and so on.
   
• I am aware the flavour isn't 100% compliant with Doctor Who lore, but in my defense, this is a BT and I'm more interested in testing the mechanic than in whether or not this fits with what we know of Gallifrey from Lungbarrow  
   
• Roles like the Messenger and Shock Infantry can overlap with being a Time Lord.

Where my Whovians at? :eyes:

Edited November 5, 2022 by Kasimir

[Illwei]

is jodie whittaker worth watching

[Kasimir he/him]

1 minute ago, Illwei said:

is jodie whittaker worth watching

My heart wants to say yes, because she's amazing. But I do think she was a victim of the writing. I'd say I feel that while Capaldi was done dirty by some of the writing, you have better character-driven arcs with Capaldi than with Whittaker. But some of that kind of boils down to if you are a Moffat Whovian, RTD Whovian, or Chibnall Whovian. Chibnall did a great job with Broadchurch but I feel as though he missed quite a bit in Whittaker's run and it hurts me because I like her Doctor and feel I could love her but she kinda got drowned out.

And now I'm rambling damnit.

But ok: tldr; pinch of salt because my Doctor orderings rn are like: War > Twelve > Unholy Mess of Thirteen/Ten/Eleven > Nine > Eight > Seven (I SWEAR THIS IS NOT IN ORDER I JUST THINK HE'S A LOLTASTIC CHULLSON.)

I don't watch for the mythology either and felt some of the Chibnall episodes there fell short. I think small one-offs like Rosa and Demons of the Punjab were fun. Spyfall, Village of the Angels, kinda want to say the Witchfinder episode, and the one I think it's called It Takes You...

Like if you're a big mythology Moffat style fan or when RTD liked to do the Holy Doctor stuff then I guess you might like the Flux arc but IDK it's controversial af. Yaz and Whittaker's Doctor were supposed to be great but I felt like it just wanted to be iconic like Ten and Donna or Twelve and Clara but never really got there. And I like Yaz!

Mad excite for Ncuti though :eyes:

[JNV]

2 hours ago, Kasimir said:

Deceased players, as well as players yet to be regenerated into the game, are all present in the Time Vortex doc. This doc will be kept strictly spoiler-free on the part of the GM and IM. A separate doc named the Nexus will be provided for spectators (if any.

Does this mean the dead characters can share anything they want with the future characters and all the theorizing bit will still get to have impact on the game cause thats nice 

2 hours ago, Kasimir said:

• The People of Gallifrey win when all the Renegades have been killed.

Is this in a given cycle or overall like if theres no Renegades in a round but theres future regenerations of Renegades waiting do the People of Gallifrey win 

Also is that x in the regenerations fixed for everyone or variable by the lord

2 hours ago, Kasimir said:

I am wondering if it is too harsh to the Village if I refuse to guarantee that a regeneration will preserve the same role and alignment. Minimally, this seems to make the Archivist sort of pointless, though I envision the Archivist will help shed light into the kill decisions made by an Elim team (e.g. are they trying to team max?) and so on.

Maybe you could make the role the same possibly but the alignment different except for the Doctor and the Master who um actually this doesnt work so well but I do like the fluctuating alignment bit thats very nice alternatively you could make the Archivist able to see the roles too 

Also the mood music is 'video unavailable' so what music was the mood music supposed to be

Also yay Doctor Who its one of my favorite TV shows even though I havent watched any of the old show and yessss the War Doctor one of my absolute favourite guys of all time

[Kasimir he/him]

7 hours ago, JNV said:

Does this mean the dead characters can share anything they want with the future characters and all the theorizing bit will still get to have impact on the game cause thats nice 

I'm fine with this theoretically because unless the Elims have a significant Time Vortex presence (which would put them far off from winning), the main connection this has is with the future regenerations (some of whom are Evil and are currently feeding this info into the Renegade doc!), and the Doctor disrupting the timestream of any player in the Time Vortex. 

As far as I can tell, the way the rules have been set up means there can be multiple Masters in the Time Vortex, while only one Doctor can use his ability at a time. Since the Master's ability is a passive, this should limit the strength of Village scans via Time Vortex questions (even if the Doctor asks for Time Vortex info) so it doesn't overtly break the game.

If this adds too many complications for the BT, then my view would be to enforce doc separation. I'd put the dead players into a separate doc, and the pre-players in another doc, and a third spec doc, and let the Doctor ask someone in the dead or pre-players doc. IMO the safest way is to not allow a doc at all but I actually feel that's a negative - a game that splits players across 'time' via regenerations is potentially going to have difficulty keeping players engaged. The best way I can see to address this is to introduce the Time Vortex doc, which gives everyone a continued stake in the game.

I still prefer this current set-up, but welcome comments from more experienced Elims.

7 hours ago, JNV said:

Is this in a given cycle or overall like if theres no Renegades in a round but theres future regenerations of Renegades waiting do the People of Gallifrey win 

Ooof. One thing in my head I forgot to add explicitly, thank you. All have to be killed. So if it's all-Village but one Villager will die and become a Renegade, then the game still goes on. (That's the thing Ash and I were thinking about.)

7 hours ago, JNV said:

Also is that x in the regenerations fixed for everyone or variable by the lord

I would argue variable by the lord - it allows the GM more fine-tuned control of the distro, which is always a good thing when you're messing around with rules that could really screw with balance.

7 hours ago, JNV said:

Maybe you could make the role the same possibly but the alignment different except for the Doctor and the Master who um actually this doesnt work so well but I do like the fluctuating alignment bit thats very nice alternatively you could make the Archivist able to see the roles too 

I kind of hesitate because the Doctor is in essence a role scanner ++, soft guaranteed to always be in the game unless you kill his regenerations, not to mention the kills flying around and if Rassilon is Village, and I'm aware that too many scanners in a game is trouble for the Elims. I'm having difficulty working out which of the two sides has the harder wincon right now. I feel the Archivist is most useful with an Elim team that plays teammaxxing because immediately, you know that if you scan a new player and ID them as being regenerated from the NK target, there's a decent chance they're probably Evil since the Elims win as soon as they currently outnumber the Village, i.e. teammaxxing seems like the right strat for them. Though they could always go for the IKYK there I guess.

Edit:

Oh right. I was using the Topic link, not sure why it failed. But:

7 hours ago, JNV said:

Also the mood music is 'video unavailable' so what music was the mood music supposed to be

Does this one work better?

Spoiler

 

 

Edited November 6, 2022 by Kasimir

[Ashbringer he/him]

7 minutes ago, Kasimir said:

I kind of hesitate because the Doctor is in essence a role scanner ++, soft guaranteed to always be in the game unless you kill his regenerations, not to mention the kills flying around and if Rassilon is Village, and I'm aware that too many scanners in a game is trouble for the Elims. I'm having difficulty working out which of the two sides has the harder wincon right now. I feel the Archivist is most useful with an Elim team that plays teammaxxing because immediately, you know that if you scan a new player and ID them as being regenerated from the NK target, there's a decent chance they're probably Evil since the Elims win as soon as they currently outnumber the Village, i.e. teammaxxing seems like the right strat for them. Though they could always go for the IKYK there I guess.

The one thing that stands out to me is The Doctor can just ask "what is your alignment" to find Non-Master Elims, and they'd know if they hit The Master because their ability would shut down. Unless I'm reading the rules wrong.

[Kasimir he/him]

3 minutes ago, Ashbringer said:

The one thing that stands out to me is The Doctor can just ask "what is your alignment" to find Non-Master Elims, and they'd know if they hit The Master because their ability would shut down. Unless I'm reading the rules wrong.

They could. I don't see where this is game-breaking  

You could find the Master (or one instance of him) and warn the thread, but think about what this costs you:

• You can't scan for another two cycles
• The Village may kill that Master ASAP when he spawns in, but you potentially die because everyone knows you're confirmed Village, and your regeneration could be Evil.

Edited November 6, 2022 by Kasimir