The Art of Game Creation

[Mat he/him]

1 hour ago, Straw said:

Hmm, I'd say this is a bit too strongly in favor of the village. The elected kill is going to be solidly village controlled, since it's voted on by all players and elected player still has to make a reasonable kill (an elected elim can't just kill a top village player without drawing suspicion). The fact that it provides protection as well makes it even better. This means that the village has a bit too much KP. I'm not sure what you should do to fix it, but it's definitely village-sided.

In all fairness, the elims have been winning a bit much lately. Perhaps a balanced game in the current meta is a village favored one. I dunno though.

(Which reading the rest doesn’t particularly matter for this, but still would be an interesting line of discussion sometime else.)

[Illwei]

So if I'm understanding this, the village elects someone to make the kill decision for them, right? 

Have you seen a game like this before, or was this an idea? An experimental game like this was just run on Hypixel with 8 players, because the GM was wondering if the concept would work, which is why I was wondering .

[Archer he/him]

That would be interesting. I feel like it would favour the elims, but add an element of uncertainty, which would raise the stakes. 

However, that's not what I envisioned. The village retains their ability to mob once per cycle by group decision. The election merely grants one player a role, which gives that individual the ability to make a single extra kill at some point in the game. 

[Quintessential she/her]

Hey, so if I spent a couple of hours last night writing up a game on Nalthis where each person starts with one Breath, and can pass their Breath freely to anyone else, and you gain more abilities the more Breath you have, and if I wanted someone to look over the rules and inform me that they're broken (and how to fix that), would this be the place to put them?

[Straw he/him]

6 minutes ago, Quinn0928 said:

Hey, so if I spent a couple of hours last night writing up a game on Nalthis where each person starts with one Breath, and can pass their Breath freely to anyone else, and you gain more abilities the more Breath you have, and if I wanted someone to look over the rules and inform me that they're broken (and how to fix that), would this be the place to put them?

Yes.

[Quintessential she/her]

7 minutes ago, Straw said:

Yes.

Okay, so this is the Google Doc that I have it written up in: https://docs.google.com/document/d/14Ns3Y5SRLF6NJB4xUj36K0kMb8W6E69BL35lbV6862U/edit?usp=sharing

It's kind of long so I figure it'd be a bad idea to post it here.

[Alvron]

2 hours ago, Quinn0928 said:

Okay, so this is the Google Doc that I have it written up in: https://docs.google.com/document/d/14Ns3Y5SRLF6NJB4xUj36K0kMb8W6E69BL35lbV6862U/edit?usp=sharing

Is there another way to gain Breaths outside of someone giving you theirs? i.e Elims stealing Breaths from those they kill or a Breath lottery like in LG4.
If someone is of the Fifth Heightening and survives an attack, would them giving their Breaths to another  give them an extra life too?  What happens if they swap back the next cycle, would it give them another life each time they gained enough Breaths?
Does it have to be Nightblood?  Couldn't the eliminators create a new blade like Cuddles?

[Quintessential she/her]

1 hour ago, Alvron said:

Is there another way to gain Breaths outside of someone giving you theirs? i.e Elims stealing Breaths from those they kill or a Breath lottery like in LG4.

I mean, it wouldn't fit very well with how Breaths work in the book... but maybe. I was thinking that the point of having such a limited supply of Breaths is that then it puts limits on the otherwise OP abilities you gain from them? idk

1 hour ago, Alvron said:

If someone is of the Fifth Heightening and survives an attack, would them giving their Breaths to another  give them an extra life too?  What happens if they swap back the next cycle, would it give them another life each time they gained enough Breaths?

Each person can only get one extra life from being of the Fifth Heightening, whether they pass the Breaths off and get them back or not. But if you lose your life and then pass the Breath on to someone who hasn't had that ability yet, then yeah they would get the extra life... idk if that's broken or not, though, since even after you lose the extra life there's still plenty of other stuff you can do with that many Breaths.

1 hour ago, Alvron said:

Does it have to be Nightblood?  Couldn't the eliminators create a new blade like Cuddles?

XD I mean I guess? But like... I don't know how I would define the rules for such a blade.

[Alvron]

2 hours ago, Quinn0928 said:

I mean, it wouldn't fit very well with how Breaths work in the book... but maybe. I was thinking that the point of having such a limited supply of Breaths is that then it puts limits on the otherwise OP abilities you gain from them? idk

So if you have 20 players then there would only be 20 Breaths.  With players dying with their Breath and no other way for anyone to gain more, it's very unlikely anyone would get high enough to use the top tiers of abilities.
You could have it so some players start with a higher Breath count than others.

2 hours ago, Quinn0928 said:

Each person can only get one extra life from being of the Fifth Heightening, whether they pass the Breaths off and get them back or not. But if you lose your life and then pass the Breath on to someone who hasn't had that ability yet, then yeah they would get the extra life... idk if that's broken or not, though, since even after you lose the extra life there's still plenty of other stuff you can do with that many Breaths.

So the eliminators could pass around extra lives making it harder to kill them but slightly easier to identify them?  Interesting.

2 hours ago, Quinn0928 said:

XD I mean I guess? But like... I don't know how I would define the rules for such a blade.

Don't need to define anything new.  Just let the one who somehow gathered enough Breaths to name the Blade something different.  Same mechanics, different named blade.


A closer read of the rules brought up a couple more concerns.
You basically have four confirmed villagers at the start of the game.  Yes they might slip and give control to the eliminators when passing out their Command Words but you've also given 4 kills to the village which I would recommend they use on the first day to insure the eliminators don't gain a free kill.  On top of that all they would need to do is out themselves in thread, PM each other with their Command Words and the elims can't do a thing.  It would take them until the 7th Night to kill all of them because the village will not vote for them by which stage new players would have the Command Words.
The eliminators only being able to kill every odd cycle would make the game drag out longer than normal and give the village a lot longer to find them.
I see no reason for the village to give away their Breaths making it extremely unlikely any of the Breath Mechanics would be used.  If they did. the Second Heightening would be the only one of any real use as the eliminators would have higher Breath counts since they would want extra actions or lives.

Overall, I feel the game is heavily favouring the village.
You have a good base for a game but it does need some work.
Something I like to do when I create a game is to break it.  I run it though my head, or on paper if you want, as if I am every player and what actions I would take. If I can overwhelmingly win with one side more than the other, something needs to be tweaked.

[Kasimir he/him]

2 hours ago, Alvron said:

Something I like to do when I create a game is to break it.  I run it though my head, or on paper if you want, as if I am every player and what actions I would take. If I can overwhelmingly win with one side more than the other, something needs to be tweaked.

This has become increasingly important for me  Or, failing that, running it past Striker Kalebane, or Aonar - one of those people with a penchant for breaking your games. 

[Quintessential she/her]

10 hours ago, Alvron said:

So if you have 20 players then there would only be 20 Breaths.  With players dying with their Breath and no other way for anyone to gain more, it's very unlikely anyone would get high enough to use the top tiers of abilities.

I guess that makes sense... I liked the idea of each having only one Breath, though, partly because it's kind of... elegant? Like, each person starts off the same, and what special powers you get depend on your ability to collaborate with others or persuade them to give you Breath. But I could also set it up so that a certain percentage of players are of the Second Heightening and a certain percentage are of the First.

10 hours ago, Alvron said:

Don't need to define anything new.  Just let the one who somehow gathered enough Breaths to name the Blade something different.  Same mechanics, different named blade.

Oh XD I thought you meant that the person who forged the sword would get to give it a different command than Nightblood's "Destroy evil". I was thinking I could let the person who forged it give me a two word command and then from that I could build a set of abilities, but that might result in me breaking my own game later on with an unbalanced ability, so probably that's not a good idea.

10 hours ago, Alvron said:

You basically have four confirmed villagers at the start of the game.  Yes they might slip and give control to the eliminators when passing out their Command Words but you've also given 4 kills to the village which I would recommend they use on the first day to insure the eliminators don't gain a free kill.  On top of that all they would need to do is out themselves in thread, PM each other with their Command Words and the elims can't do a thing.  It would take them until the 7th Night to kill all of them because the village will not vote for them by which stage new players would have the Command Words.

Would it make sense to just have one of the codes start with the elims? That way, if the four all claimed to each other, the elims would have all four codes, could change the codes to something else, and would win the game.

10 hours ago, Alvron said:

The eliminators only being able to kill every odd cycle would make the game drag out longer than normal and give the village a lot longer to find them.

I mean, I don't know how to balance the elim kills here tbh. If I have them start with a Lifeless Army, then they start off with a free kill in addition to their faction kill. Additionally, if there are five or more elims then the elims will automatically be able to create someone of the Fourth Heightening, who can use the command "Strangle Person" to kill. And then they can pass the Breaths to someone else once they've used up their use of that command. So the elims would get a number of extra kills equal to the number of elims. 

It might make sense to just change the ability granted by the Lifeless Army... Or have it not grant any extra abilities at all?

10 hours ago, Alvron said:

I see no reason for the village to give away their Breaths making it extremely unlikely any of the Breath Mechanics would be used.  If they did. the Second Heightening would be the only one of any real use as the eliminators would have higher Breath counts since they would want extra actions or lives.

I... was hoping the idea that the elims could automatically create someone of the fifth or sixth Heightening would spur the village on to collaborate, or persuade others to give them Breath (hence open PMs and group PMs). I guess idk whether that's realistic, though. It would help if some people started at the First or Second Heightening, like I said earlier. Also, villagers can still Awaken, mostly only through the higher Heightenings, which is the only way they'll be able to do things like vote-manip, protect themselves and others, or vigilante kill (if I take out the Lifeless Army kills).

10 hours ago, Alvron said:

Something I like to do when I create a game is to break it.  I run it though my head, or on paper if you want, as if I am every player and what actions I would take. If I can overwhelmingly win with one side more than the other, something needs to be tweaked.

I'm not entirely sure how to run through a game and break it... I'll attempt that, though? lol

[Quintessential she/her]

Not to double post but I've sort of come up with an alternative version of that game. Link here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/14Ns3Y5SRLF6NJB4xUj36K0kMb8W6E69BL35lbV6862U/edit?usp=sharing

It's actually the same link as before because I made a copy and intended to modify that, but ended up modifying the original instead... Oh well. Anyway, here's the link to the first version: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1qhON4-oPZagHMEgUpdjT5Um7FGw3jKmUgxq-4BKGX-U/edit?usp=sharing

The... alternate version is definitely more broken, I think. And honestly the game might work better with no God King and no Lifeless Armies, but I liked the idea of having a God King so I wrote it out. Now you can all inform me how broken it is XD

[The Unknown Medallion he/him]

This is where you post game ideas, well I've done other forums social deduction games, so I'll do one. I have been enjoying the game I've been playing and this forums relaxed attitude, so I made a game, tell me if the link works.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1R7D2IG2_L9LXaQ6bajQQwt4y_TYU8GNWC9Wsogpwvw4/edit?usp=drivesdk

[Elandera she/her]

2 hours ago, The Unknown Order said:

This is where you post game ideas, well I've done other forums social deduction games, so I'll do one. I have been enjoying the game I've been playing and this forums relaxed attitude, so I made a game, tell me if the link works.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1R7D2IG2_L9LXaQ6bajQQwt4y_TYU8GNWC9Wsogpwvw4/edit?usp=drivesdk

Very interesting tie rules. I'd love to see that in play.

Off the bat, I'm concerned about how many rules/roles you have in play for a QF. Because of the shorter turns and game overall, QFs are usually pretty simple. This may be better as an MR with 48-hour turns (especially with Bronze Feruchemy). You may also consider breaking it down so you don't have quite so many planet abilities involved. The current rule set has a lot of potential for sheer chaos in the number of redirects/roleblocks/role changes. Unless everyone is getting half a dozen roles, most of these won't even come into play with an average of 15-20 players.

Can someone have abilities from more than one planet?

Allomancy
 

Spoiler

 

Iron: When you say that someone who uses Iron on another action redirection and it shows no action, does that mean that Iron fails against iron/redirection?

Pewter: One protection seems a little low. Maybe two or three? I get not wanting it usable all of the time because it protects against the exe, but I can see this inevitably as being used only to save the Pewter user themselves. Another option is that once the action was successful, it can't be used again? So they can protect at night but if their target isn't attacked, then they can try protecting again.

Copper: Does this mean they don't need to know the Bronze user? This should probably have a limited number of uses, or they can spam this ability making the bronze an inert ability.

Duralumin: Does this include the elimination action?

Atium: I'm unsure how this one works. Do they always know who targets them, and then once choose to have none of those people target them? Or they burn Atium to find out who targets them and avoid all of those actions that turn?

 

Feruchemy
 

Spoiler

 

Iron: Is this the only twinborn possibility?

Tin: Do they get to choose which they know between identity, alignment, role, or type of action? Or is it random?

Zinc/Bronze: How do these two interact? If a Zinc Feruchemist extends a turn 24 hours, can the Bronze Feruchemist put a stop to it?

Aluminum: "Once per game, use another rules action." Is that supposed to be rules or role's? 

Electrum: Just so I understand this right, this can be used every other cycle to make a player immune to roleblock for the rest of the game? Or are they immune only every other cycle for the rest of the game?

 

Roshar

Spoiler

 

Adhesion: How would Iron Allomancy affect this? If Person A uses Adhesion to make Person B target them, and Person C uses Iron Allomancy to redirect Person A's action to Person D, would that mean Person B's action targets Person D?

Transformation: Theoretically, someone can use this to bypass harmless roles and make everyone dead. Or with Action Detection from the Aviar, can make an action every turn into an alignment scan. Consider making this a limited-use ability.

 

Nalthis

Spoiler

Returned: This is potentially game-breaking if the returned dies near the end. It's inherently only useful for village and could also create some mayoring problems if they die early, as anyone with a protect or redirect will keep spamming to keep them alive. One potential fix is to not proclaim they are returned but treat it in the write-up the same as if they were protected somehow (attacked, but survived!) but even then, as soon as they accurately identify an elim, they become confirmed village, which is a bit difficult balance-wise.

First of the Sun

Spoiler

Aviar: Are the things below Aviar the abilities an Aviar can have?

I definitely suggest cutting out some of the roles/abilities and saving them for a different game. Overall, I like what you've done with the systems and transferring them to roles.

[Straw he/him]

2 hours ago, The Unknown Order said:

This is where you post game ideas, well I've done other forums social deduction games, so I'll do one. I have been enjoying the game I've been playing and this forums relaxed attitude, so I made a game, tell me if the link works.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1R7D2IG2_L9LXaQ6bajQQwt4y_TYU8GNWC9Wsogpwvw4/edit?usp=drivesdk

Okay, here are my thoughts:

Quote

Ties are decided randomly for Elim-Elim and Village-Village exes, if it is an Elim-Village combo, the Elim will die.

I would really recommend against this, since it allows people to abuse ties:

• Village vs Village: Villager dies, other villager is cleared.
• Elim vs Village: Elim dies.
• Elim vs Elim: Elim dies.

So, at worst you get a clear (this clear would also be on a suspicious player, which helps) and at best an elim dies. This makes the vote much much more powerful.
Also, what would happen if there was a tie with 3+ people?

Quote

 If there are ever less than four players, the Hemalurgist wins.

The Hemalurgist, neutral faction, must get at least one Allomantic and one Feruchemical power. They may spike a person once every other turn, the person will not die for balancing purposes, the Hemalurgist will gain their ability.

So, under what conditions does the Hemalurgist win? Do they have to get an Allomantic and Feruchemical power and make sure there are less than four people? Do they only have to complete one of those objectives? If the Hemalurgist wins, does everyone else lose? Can the Hemalurgist gain any ability from spikes, or only Allomantic/Feruchemical abilities?

Quote

Steel: One kill per game.
Bronze: Once per game, know all actions taken and against who, but not who took the actions.

If someone uses one of these actions and is roleblocked, what happens?

Quote

Copper: Roleblock the Bronze user, this will not count as their once per game use.

Does the Copper user have to target the Bronze user? Can the Copper user use this ability as much as they want?

Quote

Cadmium/Bendalloy: Stop any actions taken against you from taking effect (except Elimination).
Atium: Know all the people who target you, and once per game, not have them affect you (excluding Elimination).

Is Elimination here referring to the elim kill or kills in general?

Quote

Iron: Roleblock someone, if twinborn, use your action twice.

So people can have multiple roles?

Quote

Bronze: End a day turn at any time.

This seems a bit unfair since it depends so much on people's timezone.

Quote

Returned: You get a second life and upon death, the knowledge of one Elim and one Villagers alignment.

This is overly strong IMO. Being able to tell the entire village the alignments of a Villager and Elim is really strong.

Quote

Death Sense: Passively protect yourself from any form of kill until attacked.
Mind Protection: Passively protect yourself from non-kill actions until someone targets you.

Could you explain how exactly this would work?

Quote

Alignment Detection: Learn your targets alignment.

This seems really really strong, particularly when compared to the other roles in the game.

Overall, I'm also worried about the number of roles in play given that it's only a QF. I feel like it might be best if you made this a LG and/or removed some roles.

[The Unknown Medallion he/him]

2 hours ago, Elandera said:

Very interesting tie rules. I'd love to see that in play.

Off the bat, I'm concerned about how many rules/roles you have in play for a QF. Because of the shorter turns and game overall, QFs are usually pretty simple. This may be better as an MR with 48-hour turns (especially with Bronze Feruchemy). You may also consider breaking it down so you don't have quite so many planet abilities involved. The current rule set has a lot of potential for sheer chaos in the number of redirects/roleblocks/role changes. Unless everyone is getting half a dozen roles, most of these won't even come into play with an average of 15-20 players.

Can someone have abilities from more than one planet?

Allomancy
 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Iron: When you say that someone who uses Iron on another action redirection and it shows no action, does that mean that Iron fails against iron/redirection?

Pewter: One protection seems a little low. Maybe two or three? I get not wanting it usable all of the time because it protects against the exe, but I can see this inevitably as being used only to save the Pewter user themselves. Another option is that once the action was successful, it can't be used again? So they can protect at night but if their target isn't attacked, then they can try protecting again.

Copper: Does this mean they don't need to know the Bronze user? This should probably have a limited number of uses, or they can spam this ability making the bronze an inert ability.

Duralumin: Does this include the elimination action?

Atium: I'm unsure how this one works. Do they always know who targets them, and then once choose to have none of those people target them? Or they burn Atium to find out who targets them and avoid all of those actions that turn?

 

Feruchemy
 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Iron: Is this the only twinborn possibility?

Tin: Do they get to choose which they know between identity, alignment, role, or type of action? Or is it random?

Zinc/Bronze: How do these two interact? If a Zinc Feruchemist extends a turn 24 hours, can the Bronze Feruchemist put a stop to it?

Aluminum: "Once per game, use another rules action." Is that supposed to be rules or role's? 

Electrum: Just so I understand this right, this can be used every other cycle to make a player immune to roleblock for the rest of the game? Or are they immune only every other cycle for the rest of the game?

 

Roshar

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Adhesion: How would Iron Allomancy affect this? If Person A uses Adhesion to make Person B target them, and Person C uses Iron Allomancy to redirect Person A's action to Person D, would that mean Person B's action targets Person D?

Transformation: Theoretically, someone can use this to bypass harmless roles and make everyone dead. Or with Action Detection from the Aviar, can make an action every turn into an alignment scan. Consider making this a limited-use ability.

 

Nalthis

  Reveal hidden contents

Returned: This is potentially game-breaking if the returned dies near the end. It's inherently only useful for village and could also create some mayoring problems if they die early, as anyone with a protect or redirect will keep spamming to keep them alive. One potential fix is to not proclaim they are returned but treat it in the write-up the same as if they were protected somehow (attacked, but survived!) but even then, as soon as they accurately identify an elim, they become confirmed village, which is a bit difficult balance-wise.

First of the Sun

  Reveal hidden contents

Aviar: Are the things below Aviar the abilities an Aviar can have?

I definitely suggest cutting out some of the roles/abilities and saving them for a different game. Overall, I like what you've done with the systems and transferring them to roles.

Thanks for the feedback.

After the feedback, it will be a Mid-range game, but I dislike the idea of this ruleset as a Long game. That was kinda the point. 

Yes.

I think I meant one successful.

Originally it was one, I'll change it back.

...I don't know, probably. 

No, I must have missed getting rid of that when I removed twinborns.

They choose.

Yes, I doubt a village would do that, so that would be incredibly suspicious. 

Role.

The former, you pick a person, they are then immune to being rbed.

It would do nothing. That's what I meant by it won't effect others.

I guess, it could change a heal into a kill if that's what you mean.

Yep, that's getting changed, you'll know a random village, no Elims. Keep in mind they could also be an Elim.

Yes.

I like the amount of roles flying around, it is kinda why I made the game, with 20ish players it would be better, so I hope it being a Mid-range game will help.

2 hours ago, Straw said:

Okay, here are my thoughts:

I would really recommend against this, since it allows people to abuse ties:

• Village vs Village: Villager dies, other villager is cleared.
• Elim vs Village: Elim dies.
• Elim vs Elim: Elim dies.

So, at worst you get a clear (this clear would also be on a suspicious player, which helps) and at best an elim dies. This makes the vote much much more powerful.
Also, what would happen if there was a tie with 3+ people?

So, under what conditions does the Hemalurgist win? Do they have to get an Allomantic and Feruchemical power and make sure there are less than four people? Do they only have to complete one of those objectives? If the Hemalurgist wins, does everyone else lose? Can the Hemalurgist gain any ability from spikes, or only Allomantic/Feruchemical abilities?

If someone uses one of these actions and is roleblocked, what happens?

Does the Copper user have to target the Bronze user? Can the Copper user use this ability as much as they want?

Is Elimination here referring to the elim kill or kills in general?

So people can have multiple roles?

This seems a bit unfair since it depends so much on people's timezone.

This is overly strong IMO. Being able to tell the entire village the alignments of a Villager and Elim is really strong.

Could you explain how exactly this would work?

This seems really really strong, particularly when compared to the other roles in the game.

Overall, I'm also worried about the number of roles in play given that it's only a QF. I feel like it might be best if you made this a LG and/or removed some roles.

This would be changed in a Mid-range game, it helped balance the Elims and village in a quick fix.

Either or. Yes. Anyone. 

Keep the charge.

No, that's getting changed to once.

Elimination is Elim kill, execution is village.

I missed that, no.

Maybe this would skip the next day, so the Elims get two kills? I don't know, time zone does matter so that should be changed. 

It's just going to be a village now, their alignment cannot be seen by alignment scanners.

You will be passively protected until you are attacked. Any actions taken against will be stopped until an action is used on you, then that action is stopped.

[Elandera she/her]

3 hours ago, Straw said:

I would really recommend against this, since it allows people to abuse ties:

• Village vs Village: Villager dies, other villager is cleared.
• Elim vs Village: Elim dies.
• Elim vs Elim: Elim dies.

So, at worst you get a clear (this clear would also be on a suspicious player, which helps) and at best an elim dies. This makes the vote much much more powerful.

I didn't think about that. I agree that it could create some problems.

20 minutes ago, The Unknown Order said:

I like the amount of roles flying around, it is kinda why I made the game, with 20ish players it would be better, so I hope it being a Mid-range game will help

Being mid-range would definitely help, and I agree it's not necessary to make it a full LG. And if you like all the roles, go for it! I'd suggest getting a co-GM with some experience to help with balancing the roles, though, when you run it, as that'll be your most difficult part.

[The Unknown Medallion he/him]

9 minutes ago, Elandera said:

I didn't think about that. I agree that it could create some problems.

Being mid-range would definitely help, and I agree it's not necessary to make it a full LG. And if you like all the roles, go for it! I'd suggest getting a co-GM with some experience to help with balancing the roles, though, when you run it, as that'll be your most difficult part.

I'll wait for my first game to finish before signing up, but I'll put that in there.

[Ashbringer he/him]

I'm not entirely sure if this is the right place to ask, but is there any word on how Break Tank games will work? Like, would it just be a run game until it breaks beyond recognition, or would there be active rebalancing?

I have my Insert-Book-Climax-Game Core almost set up (which I'll post at some point), but because it relies on essentially an HP system I feel like there's a... lot that could be broken 

 

[Araris Valerian he/him]

I mentioned in the AG thread that I was interested in a ruleset that incentivizes using PMs to discover roles. My rough sketch of the main concept is that everyone would have a "class" in addition to any role they may have (I was thinking roughly 4 classes). Then, all or most actions only succeed if you also correctly submit the class of the target. The game would either be role madness, or vanilla players would be able to enhance their vote by submitting the class of the player they are voting for. PMs would be open (but maybe only 1-1). Some potential roles would mess with player classes mid-game.

The thought is that everyone would be incentivized to use PMs to learn the classes of other players, but the villagers would want to exercise caution to limit who the elims can kill. The balance would probably be such that a total reveal of classes would overall help out the elims over the village.

It's still a rough framework, but I'm curious what other people's thoughts are on this. 

[Ookla-son-son-Ventyl]

On 1/25/2021 at 6:53 PM, Araris Valerian said:

I mentioned in the AG thread that I was interested in a ruleset that incentivizes using PMs to discover roles. My rough sketch of the main concept is that everyone would have a "class" in addition to any role they may have (I was thinking roughly 4 classes). Then, all or most actions only succeed if you also correctly submit the class of the target. The game would either be role madness, or vanilla players would be able to enhance their vote by submitting the class of the player they are voting for. PMs would be open (but maybe only 1-1). Some potential roles would mess with player classes mid-game.

The thought is that everyone would be incentivized to use PMs to learn the classes of other players, but the villagers would want to exercise caution to limit who the elims can kill. The balance would probably be such that a total reveal of classes would overall help out the elims over the village.

It's still a rough framework, but I'm curious what other people's thoughts are on this. 

Sounds crazy! I love it!

[Kasimir he/him]

I'm currently planning to use that second slot to rerun Wyrm's LG7 House Wars game instead. (Yes, I know, we've had a lot.) Or to rework it and reskin it - basically, he had a significant number of patch notes but I think his Informant mechanic was promising and fun, even if it disadvantaged the skaa. And Wyrm'alor's notes leave a prospective GM with a decent place to look to in terms of fixing it. 

Same insight as yours, Araris. With the meta the way it is right now, plus a few chaosmongers among the players, a fixed/reworked Informant mechanic might give players a lot of fun things to do.

[+Lotus she/her]

Hello! I am working on a game with a neutral party that I need some help balancing.

They were originally a survival-wincon but Stink suggested they could have a goal of not being discovered/scanned instead.

In response, Gears thought that was too much RNG. EDIT: "Gears thought that STINK's solution undermined the player's ability to meaningfully contribute to their win-con."

Anywhere here is the (very much WIP) doc, advice appreciated

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1RbmFDO9KFonreDcBV8vD3bTnhyfaC4o5EaW8iAk-LMo/edit?usp=sharing

Edited January 27, 2021 by Lotus
gears is mad at me for misinterpreting the statement in question.

[Ashbringer he/him]

*Cough*

[+Lotus she/her]

Thanks Ash.

I got the Ibis issue somewhat sorted out but I'm still looking for more imput, so please feel free to comment.