The Art of Game Creation

[Straw he/him]

3 hours ago, Kasimir said:

2. Yes and no - I'm not really comfortable with introducing too much subjective GM judgement. As a GM, I feel like the most important thing is for me to make consistent judgements. If players don't see consistency, they can feel I'm being unfair, and I wouldn't think that's wrong either. Some games did have this and were fun - MR1's Nightwatcher mechanic basically was the GM's judgement on the player's submitted RP. It was broken for many, many reasons, but the moment your subjective judgement can give - or concretely, ends up giving one faction an advantage over another, you're going to get avoidable drama.

I'm usually very against GM judgement/intervention, but I think this is a case where it's not bad. I don't think it's very hard to tell if a post is just dodging the filter. If it says pretty much anything other than "I exist" or "posting to dodge the filter" or something like that, then it counts.

[Kasimir he/him]

1 minute ago, Straw said:

I'm usually very against GM judgement/intervention, but I think this is a case where it's not bad. I don't think it's very hard to tell if a post is just dodging the filter. If it says pretty much anything other than "I exist" or "posting to dodge the filter" or something like that, then it counts.

I mean, there have been very perfunctory posts from players before which was obvious filter-dodging, though not with the literal content you specify. I'm not going to name and shame in this thread, just saying that there are times where it's fairly obvious that's what they're doing, even if you can't ding them for perfunctory content. I'd argue that you can set a line from the start codified in the rules, but if you want to creatively exercise judgement in the game itself, yeah maybe refrain.

[The Unknown Medallion he/him]

13 hours ago, Straw said:

Four consecutive cycles is far too long. If someone hasn't done anything for two cycles in a row then they deserve to be replaced.

I personally think an action based inactivity filter is worse than a post based one, since IMO thread participation is more important for fun. A game isn't interesting if someone can just put in actions and refuse to talk in the thread.

True, I also want to incentivize taking actions, so this might be a secondary filter running alongside a normal one. It will probably be two cycles post inactivity, four cycles action inactivity. 

[Archer he/him]

A regular problem appears to be people signing up for games then not playing in them. There's usually at least one person in a MR or QF who does that. I suggest the standard activity filter, 'if you don't post over any two cycles, you'll be replaced' additionally include the rule that 'and if you don't interact with your GM PM or post by the end of the first cycle, you will be replaced.'

If you send out your GM PM's a half day in advance, that gives a person only 36 hours to get on and do something to avoid the filter, but it's the difference between possibly having a dud player for 2 or 6 cycles versus only 1 of 6. 

[Experience he/him]

So... I've been working on this kinda crazy LG since the beginning of October. I don't know if this would actually be playable, and probably isn't very balanced. I'm open to any and all feedback. I'll just put the link to the doc because it's too long to put here. https://docs.google.com/document/d/1g5YwfCzOXRG20s4gRqjF9tEd6VChy-4cReGX0DrjXpU/edit 

[The Unknown Medallion he/him]

Could I get some opinions on this game?

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1zUnk22HkEMAm4Zd-K8X8pQkivDCvKdy6JYw7VThqBqU/edit?usp=drivesdk

[Straw he/him]

3 hours ago, The Unknown Order said:

Could I get some opinions on this game?

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1zUnk22HkEMAm4Zd-K8X8pQkivDCvKdy6JYw7VThqBqU/edit?usp=drivesdk

First of all, I'm a bit confused about this. So, if I'm understanding correctly, there are four cycles of normal play and then a special vote on the fifth cycle? And if a member of the High Council is elected in the vote on the fifth cycle, the elims win?

The number of alignment scanners here is way way overboard. The village will be able to clear a massive number of players and then win easily.

I also don't like the randomness with the alignment scanners. Finding out someone's alignment versus finding out nothing at all seems like a massive difference in effect.

EDIT: Reread the rules and I'm still a bit confused. Is it that there's one elim who's immune to alignment scans and must be elected? The elims having one player survive four rounds of voting and then getting them elected on cycle five seems quite difficult, especially since the elims have to deal with alignment scans.

Edited February 18, 2021 by Straw

[The Unknown Medallion he/him]

4 hours ago, Straw said:

First of all, I'm a bit confused about this. So, if I'm understanding correctly, there are four cycles of normal play and then a special vote on the fifth cycle? And if a member of the High Council is elected in the vote on the fifth cycle, the elims win?

The number of alignment scanners here is way way overboard. The village will be able to clear a massive number of players and then win easily.

I also don't like the randomness with the alignment scanners. Finding out someone's alignment versus finding out nothing at all seems like a massive difference in effect.

EDIT: Reread the rules and I'm still a bit confused. Is it that there's one elim who's immune to alignment scans and must be elected? The elims having one player survive four rounds of voting and then getting them elected on cycle five seems quite difficult, especially since the elims have to deal with alignment scans.

Yes, that number is very flexible. 

The alignment scanners are pretty much useless and I might replace them with something else. 

That was my attempt to valance the number of scanners. 

Yes, that is the Lord Mastrell Elect. They are immune for this reason. It's one player out of four, who can lie about their scans. I might make the Elects the only scanners if they get removed.

[Straw he/him]

9 hours ago, The Unknown Order said:

Yes, that number is very flexible. 

The alignment scanners are pretty much useless and I might replace them with something else. 

That was my attempt to valance the number of scanners. 

Yes, that is the Lord Mastrell Elect. They are immune for this reason. It's one player out of four, who can lie about their scans. I might make the Elects the only scanners if they get removed.

Do Lord Mastrell Elects have to be the people who are voted on during cycle five? If so, can the Lord Mastrell Elects be killed? If they can, then the elims can kill three of them and force a win.

[The Unknown Medallion he/him]

3 hours ago, Straw said:

Do Lord Mastrell Elects have to be the people who are voted on during cycle five? If so, can the Lord Mastrell Elects be killed? If they can, then the elims can kill three of them and force a win.

Yes, that's a good point. They would have to be immune.

[Quintessential she/her]

Hmmm as a general question (and I suspect the answer is no) are there enough people on this forum who've read the Broken Earth trilogy that I could run a game based on it at some point and get other reactions than just faint confusion?  this is, of course, assuming I could get my hands on a game pass. 

[Araris Valerian he/him]

I've read the first two books. Is there a specific part of the worldbuilding that you thought would make an interesting game mechanic?

[Quintessential she/her]

10 minutes ago, Araris Valerian said:

I've read the first two books. Is there a specific part of the worldbuilding that you thought would make an interesting game mechanic?

Sort of. Not an interesting mechanic, I guess, so much as the flavor just works really well. Comm at the beginning of the Season survives unscathed where the surrounding area is devastated by shakes. The leaders take it upon themselves to root out the orogenes that they know must live within their walls. The orogenes' only hope of survival is to take over the comm, but they are not well-trained enough to do so when they're so thoroughly outnumbered. So they sneak out and ice someone each Night. etc.

The thing that I was thinking of doing a bit differently is that each player has a use-caste, which is listed publicly since, of course, in a comm everyone would know which use-caste everyone else belongs to. There are specific roles that belong to each use-caste, with some overlap between castes (for example, roles for Strongbacks might include a vig, a protection ability, and a passive extra life, while Resistant might have a passive extra life and a couple of specific skills, and Innovator would have some of those specific skills, maybe research, and a vig? not sure yet). So for a given person, you know from the start what category of roles they might have (though there would be vanillas).

[Ashbringer he/him]

I've read the first book... but I think you knew that already 

I wonder if the orogene could be a neutral instead of the entire eliminator faction. I would like to see how their... particular abilities are turned into a role. That being said I love the idea of a Broken Earth game. Not enough to give you my pass though ... 

[Quintessential she/her]

1 minute ago, Ashbringer said:

I've read the first book... but I think you knew that already 

I wonder if the orogene could be a neutral instead of the entire eliminator faction. I would like to see how their... particular abilities are turned into a role. That being said I love the idea of a Broken Earth game. Not enough to give you my pass though ... 

Well the draft of the game that I'm writing out now doesn't have any special abilities for orogenes, apart from the elim kill, because I can't figure out how to do that (especially without spoiling post book 1 stuff, so you probably wouldn't want to play anyway). All of my roles focus around the different use-castes. Hmmm although maybe I could make a neutral Stone Eater, whose win-con is to protect the specific orogene that they've chosen... but idk how that would work because everyone's use-caste is announced... maybe the stone eater would be in human form, like Hoa? hmmmm

[Ashbringer he/him]

15 minutes ago, Quintessential said:

Well the draft of the game that I'm writing out now doesn't have any special abilities for orogenes, apart from the elim kill, because I can't figure out how to do that (especially without spoiling post book 1 stuff, so you probably wouldn't want to play anyway). All of my roles focus around the different use-castes. Hmmm although maybe I could make a neutral Stone Eater, whose win-con is to protect the specific orogene that they've chosen... but idk how that would work because everyone's use-caste is announced... maybe the stone eater would be in human form, like Hoa? hmmmm

Stone eaters/orogenes/neutrals can always just have a fake use caste label (or even a real one).

I feel like orogenes could be plenty potent from just what's in book one  for some reason I'm thinking they could pull a modified Arsonist, or absorbing/releasing energy in some way. If there's only a solo neutral orogene, then some form of Neutral-Killing like Arso/Werewolf/SK is the way to go. 

(I've been watching too much Town of Salem lately... I think Arso and SK are well known but Werewolf essentially can attack every other night, killing their target and anyone who visits their target. Which now that I think about it fits the whole torus thing pretty well.)

[Quintessential she/her]

1 minute ago, Ashbringer said:

I feel like orogenes could be plenty potent from just what's in book one  for some reason I'm thinking they could pull a modified Arsonist, or absorbing/releasing energy in some way. If there's only a solo neutral orogene, then some form of Neutral-Killing like Arso/Werewolf/SK is the way to go. 

I started to write out a thing informing you why that doesn't make any sense for stone eaters and then remembered that you haven't read book 2 yet : P

Honestly, now that I think about it, the only balanced goal that I can think of for the stone eater that would also be thematically accurate would be to give them a one-shot vig kill that only works on orogenes and have them win and leave if they successfully kill an orogene.

[Ashbringer he/him]

14 minutes ago, Quintessential said:

I started to write out a thing informing you why that doesn't make any sense for stone eaters and then remembered that you haven't read book 2 yet : P

Honestly, now that I think about it, the only balanced goal that I can think of for the stone eater that would also be thematically accurate would be to give them a one-shot vig kill that only works on orogenes and have them win and leave if they successfully kill an orogene.

... great 

I like the idea of Stone Eaters / Orogenes being a hostile neutral and more benign/evil but not hostile neutral. Two hostiles become a bit much. Which is hostile and which isn't I'm not sure, would depend on how their abilities translate into games, I guess. And what abilities.

[+Lotus she/her]

Does anyone know how much work it is to have areas like in the most recent AG where people can talk in docs on like different planets?

[Ashbringer he/him]

You need to make a lot of those Google Docs, but that's more time consuming than actually difficult. (I.e. the AG had... about 50 total world documents? 7-9 planets times 7 cycles).

Probably the thing that needs more work is to make sure everyone's in the right doc. But I think it's fine for results like that to be a little delayed / sent out after the writeup if it helps you to get them in accurately.

It's doable, but that kind of game would be greatly benefited by a co-GM so the GMs can multitask. 

[|TJ| he/him]

You can just make one and then File -> Make a Copy and repeat it for as many times as required.

[+Lotus she/her]

I was just thinking that may be fun for my LG idea, just don't know how much effort I would want to put into it

[Straw he/him]

6 hours ago, Quintessential said:

Hmmm as a general question (and I suspect the answer is no) are there enough people on this forum who've read the Broken Earth trilogy that I could run a game based on it at some point and get other reactions than just faint confusion?  this is, of course, assuming I could get my hands on a game pass. 

I've read the Broken Earth trilogy. I know that Elbereth and Frozen Mint have both read at least part of it. Orlok might have read it as well. I think that if you're going to run a game based on it, at least do it just based on the first book rather than anything past it.

[Kasimir he/him]

3 hours ago, Ashbringer said:

You need to make a lot of those Google Docs, but that's more time consuming than actually difficult. (I.e. the AG had... about 50 total world documents? 7-9 planets times 7 cycles).

Probably the thing that needs more work is to make sure everyone's in the right doc. But I think it's fine for results like that to be a little delayed / sent out after the writeup if it helps you to get them in accurately.

It's doable, but that kind of game would be greatly benefited by a co-GM so the GMs can multitask. 

This in general. Ash is right about the biggest issue being making sure everyone is in the right doc. Speed I would say is less important than being correct, since it's very hard to undo that. MR7 had four faction docs, three of which had to be changed every cycle, and to boot, I needed to lock the docs to Google Accounts so I had to invite the correct players each cycle, which got more fiddly. It's more tiresome than anything, but it depends on how many you want to do. Having a co-GM would definitely help.

[The Unknown Medallion he/him]

So, I'm making a ferring only game and ran into some trouble with Nicrosil and especially filling, any ideas?