Long Game 26: Cognitive Dissonance

[Burnt Spaghetti]

I've not had much to say.... and can only be online via my mobile data so... been limiting my SE time (there were reasons why i chose to pinch hit this game) also... been a little lost about how im gonna achieve one of my win cons and you know me,  i....generally dont talk much about my role. Specially not in groups. And you know, you coulda come to Sel you know. I did tell you i was there. 

I'll talk if poked. But, if i have no reason to then im going to go back to my customary lurking *shrug*

[Darkness Ascendant]

Burnt's clean guys. We spoke on Sel.

And once again. WORLDHOP TO ROSHAR TO LEARN FABRIAL SCIENCES, but bring something that will give me investiture, because I need alot of it.

[Silverblade5]

6 hours ago, The Young Bard said:

If you've already failed one of your goals, what's the point in not revealing the roles/alignments of the dead? Are you still aiming for a partial win?

3 Goals:

Kill all of GoH

Use Crime Scene Investigation (my scanning ability) on a player of each faction plus an Independent (nearly succeeded - so far as I'm aware, after tonight, I'll just have the Independent to go...) Aman, if what you say is true, can you quickly confirm/deny whether there are any other factions that you know of? I don't think that will trigger the third win con, because it doesn't *reveal* it, as such...

Lead the lynch on an Evil - I'll be active at rollover each day for basically the rest of the game, so I should manage to lead the lynch on Bugsy whenever we decide to do it, or Lopen tomorrow.

Hi Marasi! How are you doing?

[Wonko the Sane]

10 minutes ago, Silverblade5 said:

Hi Marasi! How are you doing?

You're not going to guess him. He's sort of obscure.

[Elithanathile]

Since everyone else seems to be revealing their goals, here's mine:

Goal 1: Make sure than Shai survives, give her the essence mark I've been holding onto for her, and craft a new one to give to her. I still have no idea where she is, even if she's alive. FAIL

Goal 2: End the game with the politician essence mark and items of combined value 20 or more. I have one item with a value of 0. FAIL

Goal 3: Master soul forgery, and craft two essence marks to give to other people, who aren't from Sel, and aren't evil. Yeah, I haven't even started to craft one yet, and I don't have mastery yet either. FAIL

Are you sure that these goals are balanced, GM people? Because their goals all seem so much easier! Look at STINK! All he had to do was die! (Mini rant over. You can all come back now.)

Edited September 29, 2016 by Bridge Boy
Quixotic

[Amanuensis]

Stink had to A: Kill God's Own Hate (normal elimination win con, difficultly based off the strength and cunning of the town versus the strength and cunning of the mafia), B: Worldhop to every planet (honestly I don't think this was true since it doesn't really make sense for Lightsong, on top of the fact that Stink claimed Independent and not CoH means he was hiding information), and C: Save someone else by sacrificing his life (for the record he didn't even achieve this, Stink just gave up and gave a player he trusted his power).

So his isn't a very good example. Mine are relatively easy win cons but given the fact that my second one has permanently failed due to Joe, Kaladin and Lift all trying to kill him before I could lynch him, I think you've got less to rant about

Edited September 29, 2016 by Amanuensis

[Paranoid King]

Quixotic.

Also, I have a hat, so if anyone needs to collect 20 of them, I've got one I'm willing to trade.

4 hours ago, Bridge Boy said:

Because their goals all seem so much easier! Look at STINK! All he had to do was die! (Mini rant over. You can all come back now.)

Easy goals? Sure. But you'll notice that only your first goal can permanently fail. If Joe hadn't become the target of suspicion C1, and if the convert hadn't betrayed Odium, and if Joe was protected last night instead of killed, the game would have gone on much longer, and your goals wouldn't seem so hard.

[AliasSheep]

4 hours ago, Amanuensis said:

So his isn't a very good example. Mine are relatively easy win cons but given the fact that my second one has permanently failed due to Joe, Kaladin and Lift all trying to kill him before I could lynch him, I think you've got less to rant about

I wasn't one of the ones who tried to kill him; the Shard bearer was someone else from Roshar, I used an ability blocking his attacks that night and I also kept him on Roshar in case he left and I couldn't deal with him anymore.  Unfortunately, he was killed, yes, but Kaladin was not involved.

I'm gonna repeat again in the thread; if you're worried about being attacked and getting mortally wounded, come to Roshar.

[TheMightyLopen]

6 hours ago, Bridge Boy said:

Since everyone else seems to be revealing their goals, here's mine:

Goal 1: Make sure than Shai survives, give her the essence mark I've been holding onto for her, and craft a new one to give to her. I still have no idea where she is, even if she's alive. FAIL

Goal 2: End the game with the politician essence mark and items of combined value 20 or more. I have one item with a value of 0. FAIL

Goal 3: Master soul forgery, and craft two essence marks to give to other people, who aren't from Sel, and aren't evil. Yeah, I haven't even started to craft one yet, and I don't have mastery yet either. FAIL

Are you sure that these goals are balanced, GM people? Because their goals all seem so much easier! Look at STINK! All he had to do was die! (Mini rant over. You can all come back now.)

Like I said, I'm almost positive that Conquestor is Shai and is on Nalthis right now.

[Straw]

My goals:

CoA goal, use detect returned successfully 6 times, and be attacked once.

[Darkness Ascendant]

Hey Bridge boy, want some fabrials? I'm pretty sure If I give u mine, their combined value would be 20

[Darkness Ascendant]

Wow. This game has quickly become boring Huh. Never expected that. 

[Burnt Spaghetti]

Sels reeeaaaally quite btw. Roshar sounds fun. Im going to roshar if anyone cares.

[Amanuensis]

Just now, Burnt Spaghetti said:

Sels reeeaaaally quite btw. Roshar sounds fun. Im going to roshar if anyone cares.

*crickets*

[Burnt Spaghetti]

Also if anyone cares, Dow was on Sel. All he dropped was a dun emerald.

[Elithanathile]

So Shai's on Nalthis? Okay, I'll head over there and give her a piece of my mind and meet up with her.

[livinglegend]

4 hours ago, Burnt Spaghetti said:

Sels reeeaaaally quite btw. Roshar sounds fun. Im going to roshar if anyone cares.

Yes! join us on the party planet.

[Silverblade5]

31 minutes ago, livinglegend said:

Yes! join us on the party planet.

Come to Taladin! It was lonely last cycle.

[Bugsy]

@I_am_a_Stick, do you mind hopping to Sel tonight? I can come to you if you like, but if we meet up there it'd really help with my win con

[Stick.]

Sure

[Sart]

4 hours ago, Bugsy6912 said:

@I_am_a_Stick, do you mind hopping to Sel tonight? I can come to you if you like, but if we meet up there it'd really help with my win con

 

4 hours ago, I_am_a_Stick said:

Sure

Something about this seems odd. How exactly does meeting Stick help Bugsy win? Moreover, what are your goals? Way back on Cycle 1, Stick claimed that he needed to help 3 Independents with their goals. I didn't think much of it at the time, but I'm beginning to suspect it was a fishing exercise. We know Bugsy is claiming to be Lady Sequence, and that was supported by Joe. So, my question is, what character would Lady Sequence need to meet for a win-con, that also has a history of supporting independents? I'm a bit stumped on this one, which is why I think Stick might be another member of God's Own Hate.

[TheMightyLopen]

2 hours ago, Sart said:

 

Something about this seems odd. How exactly does meeting Stick help Bugsy win? Moreover, what are your goals? Way back on Cycle 1, Stick claimed that he needed to help 3 Independents with their goals. I didn't think much of it at the time, but I'm beginning to suspect it was a fishing exercise. We know Bugsy is claiming to be Lady Sequence, and that was supported by Joe. So, my question is, what character would Lady Sequence need to meet for a win-con, that also has a history of supporting independents? I'm a bit stumped on this one, which is why I think Stick might be another member of God's Own Hate.

It looked more like Bugsy wants to be in Sel for his win con rather than needing to meet up with Stick specifically. Stick has also claimed her role too, and if she's telling the truth, she's not on GoH I wouldn't think. Has she claimed in the thread already? I thought she did...

[Nyali]

The night has ended.

[Elbereth]

LG26: Day 5 - Interconnectedness

The worlds were silent, tonight. The cognitive knot shifted silently and malevolently, tightening its hold on the realms. But despite the ever-present danger, all was peaceful.

On Nalthis, Breath swirled and danced in the night, being Awakened or given. An artisan painted by candlelight, a starscape of immense awe and terror. The gods of Hallandren slumbered in their beds, dreaming dark dreams though unaware of the cause. A solitary monk prayed in an austere Idrian chapel, high in the mountains. A few rabbits hopped through a village quietly, while in another a woman laughed scornfully in blood. 

Sel was full of life as usual. Merchants haggled and sold in Kae’s square. In MaiPon, a Soulforger painstakingly carved the final touches onto a soulstone. A little girl giggled at a philosopher’s attempts to get rid of her pesky questioning. A candle cast dancing shadows in a darkened hallway. A small lodge in the mountains was shrouded in snow. Peace flourished.

On Taldain, sands shifted and swirled, brushing against the rocks that had existed for centuries, slowly becoming more worn down and eroded into more and more alien shapes. Deep sand waited, quietly patient and still. And above all, the sun ruled. 

Roshar, for one, was not silent. A highstorm roared across the edge of the lands, just beginning to build up strength and power. A battle raged on the Shattered Plains, soldiers and Shardbearers clashing in a thunder of noise and sound. But there were quiet bits, too. A cook sat smiling at a table. A Brightlord and a Ghostblood bickered over a thief. An older woman sat in a tent, staring down at a list of names. 

And Scadrial… Scadrial was mist-covered, as always. They swirled and danced excitedly, seeming a bit more active than usual this night. Watchers nodded in satisfaction as the mists swirled tightly, nearly condensing into liquid before finally bursting apart again. Science progressed. And a senate bickered over governorship, as usual. Metal crushed itself together in one little town to the south. A clock struck twelve. 

And above it all, the Cognitive Knot hung, a portendor of doom. It had already crashed upon them in its first wave. Now everyone simply waited and worked, plotting for their success and their lives. No one died, but the night was not still. There was silence, yes - but it was a silence of light footfalls and whispered bargains, of shadows and scheming and secrets and the darkness of death.

---

Science was done on Scadrial!

Day 5 has begun and will end in 46 hours. 

Player List

1. Magestar (Magestar)
2. The Healer (Doctor12)
3. Daniyah (Daniyah)
4. Lorien the Rithmatist (Conquestor)
5. Stick (I_am_a_Stick)
6. Jonly the Terrisman (The Only Joe)
7. NeLaar (Arraenae)
8. Spike (Paranoid King)
9. Ryth (Silverblade5)
10. Riza (Frozen Mint)
11. Ecthelion (Ecthelion III)
12. Kyla (Little Wilson)
13. The Young Bard (The Young Bard)
14. Ashton & Ashlyn (Burnt Spaghetti)
15. Brandon Sanderson (Darkness Ascendant)
16. Aralis (Araris Valerian)
17. Dr. Idem Occulta (Wonko the Sane)
18. Kelen Taldar (AliasSheep)
19. Gladium Paleas (Straw)
20. Victor (Amanuensis)
21. Bugsy (Bugsy6912)
22. Locke (OrlokTsubodai)
23. Dowanx (Dowanx)
24. Tom (Sart)
25. Kaloo (TheMightyLopen)
26. Unknown (Mark IV)
27. mmhmmnmhmm (LivingLegend)
28. Cy Lon (Clanky)
29. Emrys Morge (Bridge Boy)
30. Reginald Canuck (Dalinar Kholin)
31. Orik Ironfist (Haelbarde)
32. Lily (Luckat)
33. Odin (Stink)

[little wilson]

 

Warning: this is long. I was just silenced for 96 hours and I find that I have quite a lot to say.

 

I was attacked twice two nights ago, and due to one of my passive abilities, I was effectively silenced in the thread and the world PM (which, side note, completely silencing a player is a terrible mechanic. You’re tacitly endorsing inactivity, which isn’t the best thing to do). I was on Scadrial when I was attacked with about 15 other people, a decent portion of whom were Harmony’s cronies (along with Harmony himself).

 

I do not believe that two random people, acting of their own accord attacked me. It’s possible that a single player attacked me twice of their own volition, but even that doesn’t really strike me as true, since I would imagine that a single attack costs a decent amount of investiture, so making two attacks is a little extreme, particularly given my candor in that PM (I’ll get to that in a bit).

 

This indicates that this attack was a coordinated effort to take my life. But who could coordinate such an attack? God’s Own Hate certainly could, but I’m equally certain that they didn’t. I believe that the only major thing Joe was hiding from Rae was that he could see what she said in other PMs. She said some things that strongly indicated that there were more GOH than Bugsy and Joe, and she wouldn’t have been saying anything if anyone else on GOH was on Scadrial as well. So GOH didn’t do it.

 

But who else was left to coordinate an attack? Surely Harmony wouldn’t do such a thing. Or wait, maybe he would. Because Aman lies through his teeth any chance he can get if it advances his purposes. I do not believe for one second that he’s willing to help any Independents win. At most, he can only help 4, because the game ends once enough Independents complete their win cons. So guess what happens if you’re not part of those holy four that are chosen? You’re screwed. You’re left by yourself to complete your nigh impossible win cons.

 

 

What Does It Mean to Be Independent?

No matter what Aman implies about Independents basically being a faction of their own, we’re not. We are Independent.

 

Let’s look at what Independent means for a quick second.

 

Independent:

1. Not influenced or controlled by others in matters of opinion, conduct, etc.; thinking or acting for oneself

2. Not subject to another’s authority or jurisdiction; autonomous; free

3. Not influenced by the thought of action of others

4. Not dependent; not depending or contingent upon something else for existence, operation, etc.

5. Not relying on another or others for aid or support.

 

We are neutral. We belong only to ourselves. Sure, there are Independents like Wonko who see the word ‘Neutral’ or ‘Independent’ and go “Woot! I’m helping the village now!” (this is the second game he’s done this exact thing as a neutral/independent role) but then there are others who see ‘Independent’ or ‘Neutral’ and realize that they don’t have to care about the faction game unless the faction game interferes with them. They’ll even ignore other Independents. Because the point of an Independent is that you shouldn’t have to rely on others for aid or support. That’s kind of in the definition. You shouldn’t have to depend on someone else to win. You shouldn’t be controlled by others (like a marionette doll, Bard). You are Independent.

 

 

My Win Conditions Are Not Independent Win Conditions

While my alignment says that I’m Independent, my win cons seem to indicate otherwise. I would think that an Independent’s win cons should be managed almost exclusively by themselves, even if others are involved with those win cons (like having to give a certain number of items to other players, etc). If you’re Independent, you shouldn’t have to rely on others to complete your win cons. That’s not the case for me. See, I only have one win con I can actually do all by myself.

 

As you all know, I was looking for a Lifeless, and whoever could get me a Lifeless I would help. I showed up to Scadrial as requested and Stink had dropped a Lifeless Squirrel on the ground, which meant that I could maintain my Independent nature (which is what I’d wanted to do in the first place) and get that Lifeless for myself. When I informed Scadrial of this, Bard immediately threatened me, telling me that he didn’t even want a Lifeless, but if he put in an order for it, it would cut my chances of getting it to half, and if others tried for it too, my chances of getting it would be even worse. He accused me of ruthless practicality (when really, I was just sticking to my freaking alignment) and said that he could be ruthlessly practical in return, by holding the Lifeless over my head and making me march like a marionette doll to their tune. To control me.

 

Now, I needed that Lifeless to get a body. I currently don’t have one, and one of my win cons is to Possess a Lifeless. It’s the only one I have any hope of completing, even though the action itself costs me ten Investiture to do.

 

My second win condition is for Nightblood to Destroy Evil 4 times in the game. Now, I cannot hold Items, thanks to a passive ability, so I can’t hold Nightblood. even if I could hold Items, I’m [evil] so I wouldn’t be able to drop Nightblood (I’ll have more to say about my [evil] alignment in the next section). Therefore, whomever is holding Nightblood has to be using Nightblood. And they’re not doing that. Considering that effect Nightblood has the longer you hold it, I’m betting that person is inactive, which means that I can’t complete that win con through absolutely no fault of my own. I quite literally cannot do it by myself.

Addendum: If an active player does hold Nightblood, I have an action that I can use to target you which not only gives you an extra action period in the night (so 4 actions rather than 3) but if you’re holding Nightblood, it has no negative effect if you use it. No Investiture cost. The only catch is that you drop the sword at the end of the night.

 

My last win condition pertains to two very specific characters. One of these characters must be dead at the end of the game and the other must be alive. It doesn’t matter which is dead and which is alive, but the only way this win condition is complete is if one is dead and the other is alive. I have no kill ability. I also have no protect ability. So that means I need to rely on other people to kill one of them and protect the other. Once again, this is another win con I cannot complete by myself, even if I could find both of the characters in question.

 

 

What Happened on Scadrial

While I was on Scadrial, I informed everyone there of all three of my win cons, and told them about my Possess Lifeless action, what it meant, and how it might help. I told them that it cost a lot of Investiture (though I didn’t specify how much) and that it was the only win con I could do. I told them that my alignment is Independent [evil], but that I don’t know why I’m evil (I do not view this character as evil). I told them that once I completed that one win con, I would be perfectly happy sacrificing myself to someone who needs to kill an [evil] player as one of their win conditions. I just wanted that one win con.

 

And then I got attacked. Twice. This dropped me so low in Investiture that I couldn’t even talk in my world PM (speaking of, Araris, that item you were asking about in that PM was on Scadrial when I was there). Now I have to build my Investiture back up to have enough to use on that action to complete that single win con, assuming I don’t get attacked and dropped in Investiture again.

 

 

My Thoughts Post-Attack

Needless to say, I’m a little mad. I seriously contemplated suiciding during the night: using my Possess Lifeless even though I don’t have enough Investiture for it in hopes that I’d drop past the mark where my soul frays and I die. I’d decided that if other people were going to be selfish enough to not even give me the chance at getting that one win con I’d asked for when I’d offered to help them as well with theirs if it had anything to do with my [evil] alignment, I wasn’t going to continue investing time in a game I had no chance of winning, and I also wasn’t going to help them complete one of their win cons for waiting for them to kill me, when they’d been selfiish in the first place. The game, quite frankly, lost its entertainment for me, and I don’t play games that aren’t fun. Why wasn’t I having fun, you ask? Well, let’s start with Rae. Aman, who usually harps about playing to your win con and your current alignment, bullied Rae into giving up Bugsy, telling her that the only way he’d bring her back to the good side is if she gave up one of her current teammates, they killed him to verify that he truly was GOH, and then they’d spike her and bring her back to being a Child. Yes, that’s exactly what happened.

 

Does anyone else think that’s a rotten thing to do? A terrible precedent to place? Yes, let’s start encouraging people to give up current teammates because they can switch alignments. Because that makes a game fun. Oh, but Aman is actually a paragon of virtue because he then said “Oh, but don’t tell us the rest of the GOH because we don’t want to make this game too easy.” Are you kidding me?! You don’t get to talk about making the game too easy, Aman, when you just bullied a person into giving up an opponent of yours--one of her teammates. Granted, it was Rae who made the decision to actually do it, and she paid the price for it, but it doesn’t change what you did in the first place.

 

When you start treating the game like a competition and that everything is about that win and nothing else matters, you suck the fun out of the game for everyone. Except those who are taking it just as competitively as yourself. But if it’s all just a competition, are you actually having fun? Is the game worth playing if you’re not having fun? No. It’s not. Games are supposed to be fun. Competitiveness is not fun. If you want brutal honesty, I have no desire to play with most of the Children (and the Independents who are ruthlessly helping the Children out like this) ever again. Because you’re not playing for fun. You’re playing to compete. And that gives the game an entirely different atmosphere that is distinctly unenjoyable.

 

You can claim that you’re playing this ruthlessly so the greatest number of people win, and that win should add to the fun, or whatever, but the game is horribly broken. All you’re doing right now is prolonging the misery for your opponents--people who it would take a miracle for them to win at this point. Now they have to wait until you decide the game should end. Sure, maybe they’ll continue to attempt to eek out a win, but Joe committed suicide. Do you honestly think Odium himself would’ve suicided if he thought his team had a shot? Highly unlikely. He suicided to at least keep one person from completing a win con. Bugsy did the same thing by voting for himself during the day. The Ghostbloods have lost 2 players and a third is publicly known (assuming they even have more than 3 players). Your opponents are beaten. End the game with dignity. Don’t drag it on and let your opponents get more and more irritated at the game. That’s called poor winning. If you’ve ever wondered what poor winners look like, they look like the Children. They look like Harmony.
 

A Final Plea to the GM

This game is broken. Allowing partial wins to players who complete 2 of their win cons greatly favors those who are part of factions in a game that is already unbalanced towards those who are in a faction. It is unfair to Independents who have multiple win cons that they cannot hope to achieve. I ask that you reinstate the original win condition for the game: that players need to complete all of their win cons in order to win. We signed up for an all-or-nothing game. Changing it now shows favoritism towards a certain group of players. If you’re going to change it, you might as well just drop it to one win condition or even get rid of the individual win cons completely. Losing is simply part of the game. There was always a chance that this game would end with a mass loss for everyone. It might be best if that’s actually what happened, because all this is going to do is cause the people who never had a shot at completing all three win cons get mad at the people who had 2 easy win cons and one hard one. Do you really want the game to end with those kinds of negative feelings?

 

I would apologize for the length, but again, I was just silenced for 96 hours. In that timeframe, I experienced a rather wide range of emotions: fury, suicidal, acceptance, indifference, irritation and many, many more. My words have been pent-up for too long. This is what happens.