Long Game 26: Cognitive Dissonance

[Bugsy he/him]

3 minutes ago, The Young Bard said:

Thanks, Bugsy. You've just spoiled my win con now . Oh well. You wouldn't mind greening it out for me, do you? If I ask really nicely?

Why on earth would I incentivize votes on me?  

Just now, Amanuensis said:

To whoever killed Joe, that was very selfish of you. Thanks for nothing

2 people killed Joe, plus Joe suicided out of spite. (I think that's an SE first, actually) 

[Young Bard he/him]

5 minutes ago, Bugsy6912 said:

Why on earth would I incentivize votes on me?  

Uhh... You do realize I'll vote on you anyway, right? This way, you help a poor, young bard achieve his dream of savagely murdering wrongdoers - a dream I'm sure a tender heart like yourself would support.

[Amanuensis he/him]

9 minutes ago, Bugsy6912 said:

2 people killed Joe, plus Joe suicided out of spite. (I think that's an SE first, actually) 

How boring.

Edited September 27, 2016 by Amanuensis

[Young Bard he/him]

Actually, Bugsy. If someone has a roleblock out there, I recommend blocking out Bugsy's vote on himself. Not only will it make me achieve my win con (hopefully), but that way, we can avoid any last minute lynch surprises.

[Doc12]

Question, who was on Roshar last cycle?  Two separate people put in kills in Joe, and there was a protector too? Does that mean there's was a Hater on Roshar besides Joe? 

[Clanky he/him]

I was on Roshar along with Joe, Dowanx, Living legend, Alias Sheep, and Dalinar Kholin.

 

I've been busy over the weekend so haven't kept up that much but isn't Bugsy potentially the last GoH assuming that they were telling the truth about having to recruit players into GoH? That would give the Children their Win condition ending the game. Or am I missing something?

[Young Bard he/him]

1 minute ago, Clanky said:

I've been busy over the weekend so haven't kept up that much but isn't Bugsy potentially the last GoH assuming that they were telling the truth about having to recruit players into GoH? That would give the Children their Win condition ending the game. Or am I missing something?

You're missing something - the fact that this is coming from the word of a revealed eliminator and is almost certainly not to be trusted.

[Clanky he/him]

13 minutes ago, The Young Bard said:

You're missing something - the fact that this is coming from the word of a revealed eliminator and is almost certainly not to be trusted.

I understand that he is an eliminator. That isn't something I missed and it also doesn't mean that it is inherently wrong. I just think it would really suck if everybody lost this game.

[Young Bard he/him]

Just now, Clanky said:

I understand that he is an eliminator. That isn't something I missed and it also doesn't mean that it is inherently wrong. I just think it would really suck if everybody lost this game.

It would also suck if we let the eliminator go free for a few cycles thinking he's on his lonesome while we go for our individual win cons, and then he pulls a hammer with his 3/4 mates that he forgot to mention to us.

[Wonko the Sane he/him]

And are you really willing to bet the game that he's lying?

[Young Bard he/him]

38 minutes ago, Wonko the Sane said:

And are you really willing to bet the game that he's lying?

Bugsy's own vote kind of sealed that fate for me. In order for Bugsy not to get lynched, there would have to be a counter-vote on someone else, and Bugsy could easily pull a vote switch at the last second and get someone lynched. And, as a revealed Eliminator who everyone's decided not to kill, he'd get away with it. Now, I know the name of one other non-GoH Evil, and a vote swap to them would be advantageous to me, as I'd achieve one of my win cons, but... Bugsy knows that his trick won't last indefinitely, so he must be planning something that will put him back in the game later. So yes, I'm calling his bluff. But I'll tell you what - I'll be online at rollover on Thursday, so I'll be able to see if Bugsy tries to pull any tricks. If he doesn't, then I'll tie the vote at the last second. If he retracts his vote, I'll retract mine, and if he changes his, I'll keep mine exactly where it is. That way, we'll have a guaranteed no-lynch.

EDIT: Stink was Lightsong, by the way. I'm pretty sure everyone knew that, though. Stink was a Child.

Edited September 27, 2016 by The Young Bard

[Darkness Ascendant he/him]

Yeah STINK was Lightsong, and he was an Independent. I was span-pals with him, and he told me. Of course he couldvr lied avout being independent

[TheMightyLopen he/him]

2 hours ago, The Young Bard said:

You're missing something - the fact that this is coming from the word of a revealed eliminator and is almost certainly not to be trusted.

But that elim was Joe, who's explained over and over that he's not gonna lie regardless of alignment. So I don't think we should lynch Bugsy yet.

[Amanuensis he/him]

Honestly I think Lopen might be evil too there's no way he's being this dull. EDIT: Not meant to be an insult but people apparently didn't read a single thing Joe said. That or their pushing his/Bugsy's agenda.

Edited September 27, 2016 by Amanuensis

[Young Bard he/him]

2 minutes ago, Amanuensis said:

Honestly I think Lopen might be evil too there's no way he's being this dull. EDIT: Not meant to be an insult but people apparently didn't read a single thing Joe said. That or their pushing his/Bugsy's agenda.

Aman, you haven't voted on Bugsy either. Just saying. Maybe you forgot or something...

[Amanuensis he/him]

All of Joe's posts, post-reveal.

Quote

I am angry now. I have been betrayed by one whom I brought into the Fold. Arraenae, Bleeder, Paalm the Kandra, my invisible Sword.

She did not know, but I knew her every word. I am Odium. I am not tricked so easily. She accepted my spikes, so she was mine to use. I would not do so without a way to know what she was doing. I know what she did.  She sought to return to her master, and in doing so, betrayed Bugsy, my favored one, to Harmony.

She has been silenced. Killed in the middle of the night, while you sought to use her.

However, this disappointment brings about an opportunity. Now that we have been revealed, I can make a deal.

If you promise to Lynch Bugsy tomorrow, not me, then after he is dead, I will reveal everything. I will honestly, and, more importantly, accurately answer any question you ask. I will reveal my abilities, my goals, information i have gathered on independants, other factions, anything you want. I will give my solemn promise to not use my kill again. I have no investiture left. I cannot take any atcion except through items.

All I ask is for your word, that you will lynch Bugsy tomorrow. No one else. Af

Quote

Yes, Cause Bugsy always tells the truth, like about his role being Marsh, despite no one else knowing anything about Marsh, despite Harmony himself, not knowing Marsh was in the game. Yes, ask the liar if the honest troll is telling the truth.

Quote

Nope. Rae is dead.

EDIT: Totes ninja'd by the favoured one. Also, sorry, but I favor myself above you.

Quote

I cannot. Arraenae specifically had a special that allowed me to kill her. She wasn't always a full member of the GoH. I started being able to recruit her, so I did, because I thought i would be able to trust her. But it turns out, I couldn't. 

Quote

I'm going to pretend that was genuine, and not Sarcastic. 

Quote

Alright. I'll bite Bridge Boy. Why do you think I am lying?

Quote

Yes.

Quote

Because of this. You imply, through the use of heavy handed sarcasm, that I'm not trustworthy, and a liar. That I will break my promises. I do not Lie.

Quote

Thank you.

All of Bugsy's post, post-reveal.

Quote

*Sigh* What happened to me being the "favored one", Joe?

Quote

Rae is dead. Joe Compelled her to Suicide by virtue of her Spikes.

Quote

None of them are Trellium. He needs you to help  

So, you're left with a dilemma. Help Odium, or help his servant

Quote

Yep

Quote

Rae was alive at the start of the turn, but is no longer alive now.

Quote

Correct. Rae died approximately 2 hours ago, and can't talk in the thread or in PMs anymore, cuz she's dead. 

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No, we tried to kill Rae ~5 hours ago. It took awhile to be confirmed

Quote

Nobly? She was, as you say, a traitor. Where is the nobility in that, if I may beg the question?

Joe had the opportunity to recruit who he wanted from a specific list at the beginning of the game. He chose to take a path akin to sleeper agents, where he kept the others alive and hidden so they wouldn't garner suspicion until he needed to activate them. I don't even know of anyone other than Rae who was recruitable by him. He now doesn't have the investiture he would need to activate his sleeper agents, unfortunately, so at the moment it is restricted to us.

Interesting how Joe doesn't say one thing about his ability to recruit players other than Rae, or that Bugsy and him are the last remaining members of his team. It's always Bugsy that answered those questions. Why? Because unlike Joe, Bugsy isn't bound to his "never lie" policy. If that isn't the most obvious attempt at a loophole ever, then I must be crazy.

I also would like to point out that Sheep was the one who perpetuated this by specifically asking Bugsy the following question and not Joe, who was clearly online at the time and unlike Bugsy has a reputation for being honest.

Quote

Oh well, isn't this a mess.  @Bugsy6912  How many more members of GoH are there left; just you and Joe?

This is what Bugsy says "Yep" too.

Furthermore, Joe intentionally killed himself just to spite me because I admitted that I had to have a hand in Rayse's death to win, but also to put us in this position. Now they've got everyone paranoid that Bugsy is the last GoH and killing him will end the game. As a result the lynch becomes pointless because we already know who the last one is but can't kill him, when it actually isn't because the rest of their team are still in hiding to sow chaos.

So I'm going to vote for Sheep. @AliasSheep, why did you ask Bugsy if it was just Joe and him and not Joe?

 

@The Young Bard, want me to retract so you can lead the lynch on Sheep, just in case I'm right?

Edited September 27, 2016 by Amanuensis

[TheMightyLopen he/him]

Huh, I thought Joe had said stuff about Bugsy being the last GoH member. Still, I don't think we should risk it. I'm not even close to finishing 2 of my goals and the other one seems unlikely to be accomplished either.

[Young Bard he/him]

13 minutes ago, Amanuensis said:

@The Young Bard, want me to retract so you can lead the lynch on Sheep, just in case I'm right?

That would be great, thanks.

EDIT: The other good news is that Sheep is on Roshar with me today - so you'll discover the results tonight, although that means I won't be able to worldhop tonight, unless I skip voting on Joe... 

Edited September 27, 2016 by The Young Bard

[Amanuensis he/him]

21 minutes ago, TheMightyLopen said:

Huh, I thought Joe had said stuff about Bugsy being the last GoH member. Still, I don't think we should risk it. I'm not even close to finishing 2 of my goals and the other one seems unlikely to be accomplished either.

That's fine. We don't need to kill Bugsy. But to prove my theory correct, we need to kill someone. I'm honestly surprised we even need to debate that there isn't more Haters running around. In my opinion, the idea of sleeper agents that can only be activated by Odium spending investiture is silly, and likely an utter lie. A conversion mechanic makes sense for Bleeder, given her history, but come on... from a tactical standpoint, how does it make sense to leave your teammates in the dark? They might as well not even be an open faction at that point, which makes coordinating extremely difficult. I don't know about you, but I'm not going to underestimate Joe on this.

Besides, Rae herself told us that there had to be a unanimous vote in the doc for her to be allowed to join it, which directly contradicts Bugsy's statement of Joe having to actively recruit her. Additionally, when she revealed and asked us to Spike her, she promised she would tell us all the names and the abilities of all the Haters. I then made a deal with her that if she revealed a single member other than Joe to us and we killed him to confirm it then we would trust her and do as she asked, which she didn't take long to accept. I don't think she would give up her only leverage. This is Sanderson Elimination after all, where betrayals should always be expected and planned for accordingly.

17 minutes ago, The Young Bard said:

That would be great, thanks.

Sheep. Go for it, pal.

Edited September 27, 2016 by Amanuensis

[Young Bard he/him]

Thanks, Aman.

Sheep.

[Amanuensis he/him]

Sheep.

EDIT: So what's that make? 2 Ghostbloods, 2 Haters and 1 Child, dead? Independents have got it made so far, but I'm pretty satisfied with having only lost one teammate by C4.

Edited September 27, 2016 by Amanuensis

[Young Bard he/him]

11 minutes ago, Amanuensis said:

Sheep.

EDIT: So what's that make? 2 Ghostbloods, 2 Haters and 1 Child, dead? Independents have got it made so far, but I'm pretty satisfied with having only lost one teammate by C4.

Yep. I thought an Independent would have died by now, to be honest... Apparently not. I'm actually kind of annoyed - I need to scan one of them for my second win con. Roll over and die already

[Darkness Ascendant he/him]

What's the vote tally?

EDIT- Just two for Sheep?

Edited September 27, 2016 by Darkness Ascendant

[Amanuensis he/him]

Actually, technically 2 for Bugsy. @The Young Bard, you need to retract your initial vote on Bugsy for the one on Sheep to count.

[Darkness Ascendant he/him]

Didn't you and Bard vote to lynch Sheep but?