Wind and Truth Full Book Reactions (Cosmere Edition)

[TSweezy]

Just finished and those last few chapters were perfect for leaving this planet behind for a while. Taravangian at the height of his powers and yet the cracks are starting to form (hanging out with all his friends in Spiritual Kharbranth, totally real btw). Kaladin and Syl getting to work on picking up the pieces of the Heralds in wherever they are- but what will bring them back to Roshar if the Fused have remained, and they're (hopefully) doing the opposite of breaking this time? I also wonder if Books 6 and 10 will begin and end with Kalak as well. Seeing Kaladin's Herald symbol in front of the collapsed chapter headers had me PUMPED! Shallan getting a word in with Kelsier was a long time coming and his teaser of a Ghostblood civil war has me plenty ready for the next Mistborn era. (That poor Kholin kid's first sights after being born will be Cryptic heads- she might be cooked already.)

My first read conclusions are pretty positive as a whole. I appreciated taking a break from the ketek structure that imo had gotten a bit repetitive. I also think that these were the best interludes since Words of Radiance; I felt that same grand feeling seeing Axies again as I did the first time I realized just how large the scope of this story will become. Reading Odium's POV was great, but my favorite has to be the 17th Shard and the Iriali migration.

Adolin has always been my favorite character on Roshar and the most relatable to me, and I was pleased to see how well his arc was executed in this book. I appreciated his struggle to reconcile his image of Dalinar with reality, and how even despite his complicated (to say the least) feelings about his father he eventually strives to embrace the best attributes of both his parents. His perspective shift from his time as a one-legged spearman was also a great reprieve from how powerful the other characters have grown, and the battle for Azimir reminded me of the atmosphere of the first two books. As a big shonen fan his "power of friendship" powerup was just perfect to me. His care for his friends, soldiers, and equipment ever since the start of the series bore fruit in this book and winning the loyalty of his Plate was a big highlight. The payoff for Yanagawn was great too, knowing things about the palace that even Noura didn't. I'm excited to see where the Unoathed go from here since the implications of Notum's donning of Plate and Blade (along with his incoming fame according to the epigraphs) are pretty fun as well.

I also really liked the Shinovar arc, and seeing it from both Kaladin's and Szeth's perspective definitely helped flesh out a place that hasn't seen any POV for too long. Visiting all the monasteries did get a bit repetitive, but I really liked Kaladin's budding skills as a musician and cook as he learned for new ways to find fulfillment. The therapy sessions were a bit heavyhanded at some points but overall I appreciated the way Kaladin grew into his role further after meeting Nale. Lastly, few people come to Sanderson looking for flourishy prose, but the chapter "A Perfect Moment" did move me in a way I didn't expect. I hope he's proud of that one.

Jasnah's spectacular failure at Thaylen City was definitely unexpected. I liked the way her more immoral actions were brought back by Odium in their argument, and I'm excited to see what she learns in the back half. I'm curious who will be there to politick with, and what will she make of her studies when all the historical secrets have been revealed?

The Shattered Plains didn't grab me as much as I'd hoped. We've had a lot of Windrunner battle POVs over Narak and although I liked Sig getting some time to shine those battles didn't feel all that different from the first two books. I don't know why, but the reveal of the Plains' Shattering simply being a clash between Honor and Odium felt a bit underwhelming, and the whole "perpendicular under the capital" thing was more effective in Mistborn Era 1. Excited to see what the "fourth moon" is all about, though. Valor?

The Spiritual Realm was a mixed bag. Obviously, realizing the histories of the Last and False Desolations was a joy after such a long wait, but stretching all the way from the arrival of humans to the era of Mishram meant jumping between Connections got a bit repetitive. The Ghostblood presence also felt a bit inconsistent- I feel it might have been more interesting if they'd had to work together with the Radiant team at some points, then fight over clues at others. Credit where credit is due- Sanderson has definitely improved his romance writing chops. Renarin and Rlain had barely interacted in PoV before this book, so I wasn't sure how the buildup was going to go, but by the time it kicked into full gear I was totally on board. With how heavily Child Champion was foreshadowed, I was hoping we'd get a scene between Odium and Gavinor, especially from Odium's perspective. I would've liked to see Taravangian justify his manipulation of a five year old against his care for his grandchildren.

Some final stuff:

Is it just me, or was Mishram showing up in the chapter headers a couple times? I swear I saw her at chapter 76.

It was nice seeing Dalinar get that bread with Nohadon one last time.

Man where the vyre is Vivenna? Our other Nalthis natives got some time to shine- Nightblood obviously, Zahel with an interlude and offering to teach Lift, and even Endowment got another written clapback at Hoid. Meanwhile, Azure has been AWOL for two books now! Did she even make it to the perpendicularity before Cultivation booked it out of there? Notum hasn't mentioned her either. It's selfish, but Vasher and Vivenna have my favorite fighting style in the cosmere. I wish they had an opportunity to throw hands more often.

[discorat she/her]

10 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

I am afraid I need to point out that a lot more than the first arc is over.

Someone has got to say it: Without the Highstorms and Stormlight Roshar might just as well be just another world.
A lot of other things are gone. You can hardly be Vorin and praise Retribution at midnight to keep your food growing and your fabrials running.

True, but still. I mainly like these books because of the characters

7 hours ago, Ryshadium said:

I haven’t posted here in like a decade, but felt the need to share that I loved every second of reading this book. Maybe some minor nitpicks here and there, but it almost felt like the literary equivalent of journey before destination. I found myself not even caring much how it all ended because I enjoyed the journey so much. And when I got to the destination, I found it sometimes surprising, sometimes expected, and wholly satisfying. 
 

Hoping others out there feel the same way because I’m still riding on the high of it. 
 

 

Agreed fully! And not just the journey of this book but all five books, I feel like i have grown with all characters and im in such a happier and healthier place mentally and physically today than i was when i was like 13 and picked the way of kings up for the first time.  

[ALAKA]

16 hours ago, The Stick said:

Finally, he could fight Odium. I don't get how that would even have destroyed the planet. I mean, we saw plenty of clashes between Ruin and Preservation, both the minor Kelsier clashes and the Vin clash. But those Intents, which are even more diametrically opposed, did not do any damage. But beyond that, that would destroy the planet, but would at least handle Odium. 

I think the book calls that out - something like "if both Shards want to destroy (ie not Preservation) it would be worse"

[+Oltux72 he/him]

17 minutes ago, ALAKA said:

I think the book calls that out - something like "if both Shards want to destroy (ie not Preservation) it would be worse"

Could it depend on the Dawnshard they correspond to?

[ALAKA]

Could be (need to reread) - I'm just pointing out that the book does deal with the OP's objection.

Thoughts:

Definitely an unexpected ending -

• I really thought the deal at the end of RoW would have set things up for a truce with the only tension in WaT being the terms of the truce. But he surprised us all!
• Bit downbeat though but there's still hope with a new Oathpact and Retribution running scared (and for some reason most nations anyway voted for the god of hatred so they deserve it).
• Annoyed that Todium got "a" Blackthorn. Dalinar's sacrifice should have (narratively) prevented that entirely. Hopefully we'll see the Fake Dalinar being substandard in some way so the sacrifice means something.
• On that note, who/what has "claimed" Dalinar's soul? Is that the Oathpact 2.0 or something else?

Too much philosophy/therapy. I get the importance of "sometimes you need to break oaths/law" as a theme (Destination Before Journey?) but it's too much.

I liked Shinovar - good structure (a bit video-gamey) and road-trips are always fun. Mixed it up well by adding in Nale. LOL at the highspren's whole thing being an act

Azir - Glad to see Adolin make it through, and hopefully Shallan can get back somehow (she can at least communicate). Plot there felt like a side-story (with a "dumb villain" to boot)

Spiritual Realm bits - nice to see the flashbacks but it just went on and on. Didn't really help the plot much in the end, apart from releasing BAM

BAM/El/Wind - I think these were underused, but that's probably OK considering the lack of foreshadowing for some/all of them. Probably being setup for the back 5.

Jasnah - She's annoying, don't care about her. This "philosophizing into supporting the god of hatred who will use you as cannon fodder" is a bit weird.

Sigzil - glad to see Spren 1 didn't die - I was worried for him after reading Sunlit Man.

 

 

Edited December 9, 2024 by ALAKA

[The Stick]

20 minutes ago, ALAKA said:

I think the book calls that out - something like "if both Shards want to destroy (ie not Preservation) it would be worse"

I would have to disagree. By the end, Vin most definitely wants to utterly destroy Ruin, which is what she does. And that also brings up the question of why the power did not reject her for attacking Ati and Ruin.

[ALAKA]

4 minutes ago, The Stick said:

I would have to disagree. By the end, Vin most definitely wants to utterly destroy Ruin, which is what she does. And that also brings up the question of why the power did not reject her for attacking Ati and Ruin.

Sure - just pointing out that the book does deal with your objection (even if it is a bit hamfisted). On why the power doesn't reject her - I think the book deals with that as well (something like "it was attacking in order to Preserve")

Edited December 9, 2024 by ALAKA

[+robardin he/him]

On 12/6/2024 at 1:07 AM, Soccorro said:

Good:

Kaladin. I loved more optimistic Kaladin, his next ideal and his ending. Honor-spear???

Szeth’s flashbacks are big improvement since last book.

Adolin and Maya. Some of the best action scenes Brandon ever wrote.

No Syladin

Bad:

Everything about Dalinar. Gavinor was, in my opinion, stupid. I understand that any book is reflection of author’s world view and “killing one to save many isn’t worth it” theme was there since book 1, but…killing Gavinor was right. I’m sorry. I understand what Brandon tried to show, but really? The fate of many planets and so many lives aren’t the priority? Dalinar died…for this? He was sidelined in RoW for this? Didn’t even reach next ideal. Dalinar’s character is pure disappointment and it hurts to think about amazing character conclusions other characters got while Dalinar fans pulled the short straw. Again. Should’ve died in Oathbringer instead.

Ending is too much like Hero of Ages. The more you dive into cosmere the less original it feels like. 

Moash. Ugh

Overall 6-7/10 book for me. Rhythm of War was more boring, but individual arcs were very solid. This book is very fast past and dynamic, but some things about characters disappointed me. 

"No Syladin?" Don't be so sure. I mean, they're both basically spren now.... And bonded spren go with the Heralds when they're "locked away" (Nale's highspren too).

As for the Dalinar Decision, it's brilliant. I just finished reading last night and haven't caught up on the rest of this thread yet so I won't post on that point until I do, though.

[Necessary Eagle she/her]

So there's still at least one unknown Dawnshard floating around on Roshar, right? The epigraphs and visions in previous books refer to them in the plural, and no one knew that Hoid had Exist, even had he been on Roshar during the times in question.

[+robardin he/him]

Adolin enjoying the sun breaking out over Azimir -- precisely its borders -- while seeing that the new Everstorm covers nearly the entire rest of Roshar without ever moving or dissipating...

That was epic, but also kind of interesting to consider from the POV of the singers/Fused and all the other people who swung over to Team Odium. How do they feel about never seeing the sun?

 

[boonboon]

16 minutes ago, robardin said:

Adolin enjoying the sun breaking out over Azimir

...

That was epic

 

Adolin reviving Maya with two months of morning katas was epic too.

Adolin's shift in a few weeks from saying "You are not my wife" to Veil, to "Shallan, I know it's you, they are all you." was pretty epic also.

Don't mind me, just passing through.

[NattyBo]

I think I would have liked this book even more if I knew the next installment wasn’t conceivably be after I die.

 

That out of the equation, it’s a great Stormlight book. Not perfect or near perfect like WoK or WoR, but Oathbringer level for me.

Setting up the Ghostbloods civil war was cool. I’m always down for more Kelsier. 
 

Probably a dumb question but since we saw Hoid becoming Wax’s coachmen, safe to assume Stormlight 1-5 happen before Shadows of Self, Bands of Mourning and the Lost Metal?

[IcaroRibeiro he/him]

23 minutes ago, NattyBo said:

I think I would have liked this book even more if I knew the next installment wasn’t conceivably be after I die.

 

That out of the equation, it’s a great Stormlight book. Not perfect or near perfect like WoK or WoR, but Oathbringer level for me.

Setting up the Ghostbloods civil war was cool. I’m always down for more Kelsier. 
 

Probably a dumb question but since we saw Hoid becoming Wax’s coachmen, safe to assume Stormlight 1-5 happen before Shadows of Self, Bands of Mourning and the Lost Metal?

Yes. And Ghostbloods will also happen before books 6-10. I think the time dilation bubble was his strategy to keep Roshar events at bay while he keeps developing other Cosmere events without breaking the timeline

[Irish Spern]

Can someone explain why or how the sun was shining over Azimir at the end of the book?

[Necessary Eagle she/her]

3 minutes ago, Irish Spern said:

Can someone explain why or how the sun was shining over Azimir at the end of the book?

Retribution spread out the Everstorm to cover everywhere he owned. Which is pretty much everywhere except Azimir and (i think) the Shattered Plains.

[Heilven he/him]

3 minutes ago, Irish Spern said:

Can someone explain why or how the sun was shining over Azimir at the end of the book?

Azimir and Urithiru are the only parts of Roshar that aren't controlled by Teravangian, and Honor forces him to uphold that oath. So the Everstorm is over all of Roshar except Azir and Urithiru. There's probably some nuance around narak.

[NattyBo]

1 minute ago, Necessary Ookla said:

Retribution spread out the Everstorm to cover everywhere he owned. Which is pretty much everywhere except Azimir and (i think) the Shattered Plains.

Yeah I think that’s why this time period was also prophesied as the night of sorrows…basically the entire continent (planet?)  is in perpetual night under the Everstorm.

[thaidenheimer]

Kaladin better kiss that woman in the next 80 years gd

[Jiji]

6 hours ago, The Stick said:

I would have to disagree. By the end, Vin most definitely wants to utterly destroy Ruin, which is what she does. And that also brings up the question of why the power did not reject her for attacking Ati and Ruin.

I do think the whole “why didn’t their clash destroy the plant” explanation was hand wavey, but I think the answer for “why didn’t the power reject Vin” could be as simple as she died before it could. Much like how Honor didn’t prevent Tanavast from betraying BAM, Preservation allowed Vin to attack Ruin. It was probably also easier for her because she hadn’t held the power very long. If she had lived though the power surely would have rejected her.

[Isilel]

I was pretty worried after TLM, but I loved WaT, it was a very satisfying end of the first arc, IMHO. I even resisted the urge to peek ahead, as I often do even in the books I enjoy,  when the narrative drags a bit. I liked pretty much every  plot-line, which is rarely the case for me.

I have some quibbles, of course, as I always do, it is not perfect. But then nothing is.

My main issue is that Sanderson pulled his punches, while also putting the characters in positions where odds were ridiculously against them. And then noticeably hobbled and nerfed the opposition every step of the way, so that victory would still be possible. 
Instead of just starting with more reasonable odds and following up with plausible attrition among the characters that have any kind of emotional connection to the readers in order to back up the impression of desperation that he wanted to evoke. 

I mean, you can't tell me that the battle on the Shattered Plains was desperate and bled the defenders white, but have only one member of  Bridge 4 die out of about 30!  Ditto only 1 named character dying in Azir, etc.

Don't get me wrong, Sigzil's and Adolin's emotional arcs worked quite well, but there was that constant tugging on my willing suspension of disbelief, with nearly all characters that we had even a little reason to care about consistently surviving everything, despite how grueling these battles were supposed to be.

Taravangian's and Jasnah's dispute was also better in concept than in execution.

I hope that someone asks Sanderson which character "refused" to take the action that he had planned for them. Was it Shallan not heading out into cosmere, or?

Edited December 9, 2024 by Isilel

[Aredor]

I absolutely loved this book. Everything up until day 10 was, for me, 10/10. And then day 10 happened, and it sort of felt like it was just going a little off the rails. A lot of decisions were made, that for me, felt rushed. I think Day 10 could have used an extra fifty pages, to be honest. 

Kaladin/Szeth plotline

This was really just not a Kaladin book. It was the first book where Kaladin was not in the top two characters that the story focused around, at least. I think that's fine, but was a little odd with how much it was different than everything else. I think that everything with Szeth was absolutely phenomenal. His flashbacks felt like a return to the truly useful flashbacks, like Kal/Shallan/Dalinar's. The realization that KoWaT author is Szeth's wife is also really cool. Also, Nightblood is awesome flaming sword in Shadesmar. That's hilarious. I didn't care as much for the Kaladin Therapy sessions/ namedropping Therapy/Therapist into these Herald Situation, but I did like how that wasn't the resolution with Ishar. (That "Oh yeah, I wrote Wandersail and Fleet" was hilarious.)

Anti-Ghostblood plotline

LET'S GO CHANA DAVAR IS REAL

And Shallan is trapped in the CR. Wow. And Mraize is dead. And Iyatil is dead. Cool resolutions of those plotlines. I did really like them hopping around the SR, trying to blend in and find the Ghostbloods. That was really fun. 

Oh yeah, and Renarin/Rlain exists now. Do I care about either one of them more than during RoW? Nope.

Adolin plotline

Maya is incredible. She singlehandedly saved Roshar. Her tone of voice talking to Adolin is awesome. I love her. The concept of the Unoathed is really cool, and that part about Adolin not liking the Oaths is also incredible. The concept of defending the dome feels kind of like a zombie invasion where there's zombies crawling out of a hole in the ground. Cool idea. AND THEN ADOLIN LOSES A LEG NOOOOOOOOOOO

Also, Taln and Ash when they're fired up are terrifying. 

Also, May Aladar. That is all.

Sigzil/(Was Venli even there?)

Sig was cool. His leadership was very different than Kal's, but it did work. They saved the Shattered Plains, thanks to some fun trickery. Love to see that. Sigzil's moment of betraying his oaths is a really cool scene. Storm Moash.

Venli's presence was noted. 

Jasnah... existed.

So... this plotline happened in like 2 chapters. And the debate was just like:

T: You have no morals.

J: Yes, I do!

T: No, you don't. Here's why.

J: Oh, you're right. Whoops. 

Jasnah, who was reportedly incredibly good at debating, just... isn't. But I do like characters being broken, so... there's that. 

Dalinar/Navani/Storming TANAVAST

Wow. That... went differently than expected. Brandon, you absolute troll. Dalinar and Navani's history side trip was really cool. Turned out that Mraize blowing up the Perpendicularity really just didn't matter. But anyway, there were some cool revelations. Taln tried to kill Cultivation... FOURTH MOON??? The contest worked really well, and then Gavinor showed up. Angsty emo 25-year old Gavinor. What was the point of Gav's and Lift's friendship? Well, now Gav's ten years older than her, so that's even weirder than before. But really, Sanderson? Child champion? There were cooler ideas! Anyway, Dalinar taking up Honor, seeing there were no good options for him except to break the Contract and sacrifice Honor, and ultimately losing felt like a good midpoint to the series. And Navani's in stasis. AND THEN THERE WAS JUST TANAVAST POVS! LIKE WHAT

Overall, this book was really good, like a 9/10. Cool things, cool characters, and cool stories. Lots of good theorizing fodder. 

Final rankings are thus:

RoW

WoK

WaT

WoR

OB

[+robardin he/him]

4 minutes ago, Isilel said:

Taravangian's and Jasnah's dispute was also better in concept than in execution.

Wow. I thought that was actually perfectly done, because everything Taravangian pulled up and threw back in Jasnah' face were EXACTLY the things she'd said, done, or suggested that raised my eyebrows in the past.

And before he did that, he got her to verbally state or to reaffirm the moral ideals she espoused, or were promoting,  that contradicted those actions.

And the capstone playback of her replying to Wit saying they couldn't "unleash [Odium] on the cosmere" by agreeing to set him free if he left Roshar alone, with "Sometimes, you have to think of yourself first." 

She had truly dug her own grave there.

He could also have pulled out, had this meeting involved Venli or Thude from the listeners, the fact that Jasnah had once pointed out that one way to defeat the Everstorm was to kill every single singer/listener on Roshar so there could be no more hosts for the Fused, which horrified Kaladin, but she considered only a logical position (even if she were not actively pushing for it, that it should be on the table).

It highlighted in every way why Taravangian, ruthless and insightful and intelligent, was and is such a terrifying Odium. (And now, Retribution.)

[Ewery1]

44 minutes ago, Isilel said:

I was pretty worried after TLM, but I loved WaT, it was a very satisfying end of the first arc, IMHO. I even resisted the urge to peek ahead, as I often do even in the books I enjoy,  when the narrative drags a bit. I liked pretty much every  plot-line, which is rarely the case for me.

I have some quibbles, of course, as I always do, it is not perfect. But then nothing is.

My main issue is that Sanderson pulled his punches, while also putting the characters in positions where odds were ridiculously against them. And then noticeably hobbled and nerfed the opposition every step of the way, so that victory would still be possible. 
Instead of just starting with more reasonable odds and following up with plausible attrition among the characters that have any kind of emotional connection to the readers in order to back up the impression of desperation that he wanted to evoke. 

I mean, you can't tell me that the battle on the Shattered Plains was desperate and bled the defenders white, but have only one member of  Bridge 4 die out of about 30!  Ditto only 1 named character dying in Azir, etc.

Don't get me wrong, Sigzil's and Adolin's emotional arcs worked quite well, but there was that constant tugging on my willing suspension of disbelief, with nearly all characters that we had even a little reason to care about consistently surviving everything, despite how grueling these battles were supposed to be.

REALLY agree with you here. After the big deal that anti Light was made out to be it’s INSANE that Syl, Pattern, Testament, and Maya all made it. I hate to say it but one of the four should be dead. That’s what made me feel unsatisfied, the fact that Dalinar is the only major character to die is bizarre for an event called “The Night of Sorrows”. And we know he can do it, in Mistborn Era 1 EVERYONE died lol.

 

30 minutes ago, robardin said:

Wow. I thought that was actually perfectly done, because everything Taravangian pulled up and threw back in Jasnah' face were EXACTLY the things she'd said, done, or suggested that raised my eyebrows in the past.

And before he did that, he got her to verbally state or to reaffirm the moral ideals she espoused, or were promoting,  that contradicted those actions.

And the capstone playback of her replying to Wit saying they couldn't "unleash [Odium] on the cosmere" by agreeing to set him free if he left Roshar alone, with "Sometimes, you have to think of yourself first." 

She had truly dug her own grave there.

He could also have pulled out, had this meeting involved Venli or Thude from the listeners, the fact that Jasnah had once pointed out that one way to defeat the Everstorm was to kill every single singer/listener on Roshar so there could be no more hosts for the Fused, which horrified Kaladin, but she considered only a logical position (even if she were not actively pushing for it, that it should be on the table).

It highlighted in every way why Taravangian, ruthless and insightful and intelligent, was and is such a terrifying Odium. (And now, Retribution.)

Yeah I’m with you here. Jasnah’s day nine was among my favorite parts of the entire book. Jasnah has been a pretty static character and it was great to see her misinterpret the terms due to her flaws, do what she thought she was best at in a way that appeared to be winning, and then be taken apart completely via her own actions. It sets her up so well for the back half and was really well executed.

[Dopetruffles]

On 12/7/2024 at 6:52 PM, Soccorro said:

“someone at the end of Wind and Truth made the opposite decision. It's not magical where I'm like "oh the character is alive", no, it's just that who I wrote them to be and how the themes of the plot progressed I realized that at that point they can't make this decision. And so I rewrote their part and revised it to have the opposite decision get made. Once Wind and Truth is out I can tell you what that is. But you will have to read it and see if you can guess who, in the outline, was making a very different decision.”

I think in the original version of the book Dalinar ended up being Honor, but then Brandon decided to kill him off and write HoA rip-off instead. Just my theory, but I can’t imagine anyone else who could make a different decision.

I bet it was Taravangian saving Karbranth after all.  

[Duwath He/Him]

Wow, what a great finale and overall experience! For me it's a 8.5/10 currently I think 

Cannot wait for part 6-10, but also for Elantris and Mistborn stuff to continue

 

Anyone had the feeling that Nohadon is not only some fabrication of Dalinars mind, but maybe something more? My gut feeling while reading was that he is maybe one of the shards in hiding (Valor? Reason?, but with no real clues to back that up). Somehow connecting to Dalinar in that moment from afar or maybe this shard was hiding on Roshar the whole time.

 

And anyone knows what the specific moment was, where Brandon some years ago had that great idea for an ending (was that during a DnD session?) that he wanted to use/include for Wind&Truth?