Sunlit Man Full Book Reactions (Cosmere Edition)

[therunner he/him]

1 hour ago, Oltux72 said:

I need to point out that we never aimed for that goal. If we did, we could ramp up our warhead production to increase stockpiles into the millions and go back to the big monster bombs of the late 50es and 60es and fit them with cobalt jackets. We do have the potential capability to render a planet uninhabitable.

No we don't. Not by a long shot. We would have to increase our nuclear arsenal 6000x to have tens of millions of warheads just to approach energy output of the dinosaur wiping asteroid. And even after that Earth remained habitable for smaller species.

Humanity is long way off from being able to render planet uninhabitable, we simply don't have the necessary industrial output for that. And even cobalt bombs are not fool proof, and wind conditions basically guarantee there will be locations that are relatively cobalt free.

And Night Brigade most certainly is not carrying millions of large nukes, in fact from what Sigzil says their main danger is in their army of Shades.
Sigzil calls Shades one of the most dangerous creatures in the Cosmere, and this is a man that was a Knight Radiant and most certainly is aware of Elantrians.

1 hour ago, Oltux72 said:

Yes. The Cosmere seems to be in a kind of Cold War coupled with age of sail imperialism in the future.

Yeah kinda. Interesting combination of eras, could lead to quite fun Era 4.

[Treamayne]

So, I really enjoyed the book (and really sad that the Spren of a Skybreaker's Plate wasn't mentioned to clear that raging debate - opportunity missed). 

I think I need time to digest the details (and probably a slower reread) to really coagulate feelings into thought. I'm very glad I've been avoiding SP spoilers (as much as possible) since the Kickstarter - so going in I only "knew" the title and that the main character was somebody from Bridge Four as a worldhopper (one of the few spoilers I did not manage to avoid - unfortnuately SA5 spoilers are even harder to avoid). 

I was reasonably sure of Nomad's real name before the "Lightweaving chat" with Wit. I was not at all prepared for how we received on-screen confirmation of a person bonding two different order's spren (even if it does not appear to have been simultaneous in this instance - as the WoB discussed). 

Skipping, to me, seems kind of like a Steelpush/Ironpull in that in M:TFE we first see Vin "tug the line" without knowing what it does or how - and later we see her obviously controlling those pushes and pulls - except when she can't see the anchars (such as the end of WoA, when she realzes two Ironlines are pointing to something behind the rock, pulls, and gets dragged toward the wall instead).

I posit that Skipping is like "Skip toward <known location>" and you go there (but not necessarily a specific coordinate "there") - but when skipping with Intent (running away in this instance) and no Command of Destination - the resulting Skip is more random (and possibly influnced by SR Connection - the same way Shallan drew Ash before meeting her) the Skip takes you somewhere you will need to be without you knowing what that Connection will become.

Also, it is me or are the Cinderhearts operating on at least some similar principals as Hemalurgy - Foreign Investiture "stapled" to your body and spiritweb, warping your body to remain alive despite the damage and profoundy affecting your cognitive and emotional state?

On 10/2/2023 at 8:28 AM, The Known Novel said:

Don't know where the Coppermind is getting that from,. . .

It's from the text. TSM Ch 21:

Spoiler

Either way, when I gave away the Dawnshard, it left me changed. With a kind of scar tissue on my soul. That’s the Torment. The strange Connection I have to all places at once, the ability to feed on Investiture, 

On 10/2/2023 at 10:29 AM, Nesh said:

I'm not entirely convinced the Scadrians are necessarily as bad as they look.  I mean we're seeing them from the outside here.  Yes, their actions aren't what I'd call good, but we don't have the context for them.  We got a couple hints that the Rosharans aren't exactly nice.  The travel book describing them as warlike, the implications from the Scadrians about the Radiants.  It's entirely possible that they are on the back foot against an aggressive Roshar.  I mean for all we know Taravodium is leading the charge.  You're right, they're actions don't paint them well, but I hesitate to jump to conclusions.

True, we lack context (and context can be important); but I will point out that it is rather difficult for two sides to both hold "the moral highground" but rather common for two sides of a conflict to both be (relatively) morally destitute. 

This faction of Scadrians at least appear to be the equivalent of "Here, toddler, let me trade you a loaded gun for your lollipop - and it's not my fault of you hurt yourself or others with it." Sure, that's example-by-hyperbole, but the point remains that they cause atrocities by proxy and seem to think that some other hand weilding their weapon absolved them of responsibility. There may be "reasons" but I doubt that morals fit in there anywhere. 

 

[+robardin he/him]

7 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

No, [Skipping] is not random. If it were he'd long since drowned or frozen to death in some planet's equivalent of Antarctica.

However it is not controllable either. If it were, we wouldn't have seen Hoid actually travel through the Cognitive Realm.

Let me rephrase - it's clearly not "random" for the reason you mention. However, he clearly is not picturing a destination in mind - i.e., providing Intent - because he ends up on Canticle where he's never been before to start the story, and ends up in yet another place he's never been before at its conclusion.

And yet, at the end, he thinks to himself how he'll never find out if Rebeke, Elegy, and the other Beaconites survived or not, because he could never afford to bring the Night Brigade anywhere near people he actually cared about.

Perhaps he's doing unconsciously doing some kind of semi-Intent thing, like thinking "take me anywhere safe and far away from the Night Brigade (instead of closer to them), but not Nalthis, and not anywhere I might put people I love in danger like Roshar and now Canticle"

 

[+Oltux72 he/him]

6 minutes ago, robardin said:

Let me rephrase - it's clearly not "random" for the reason you mention. However, he clearly is not picturing a destination in mind - i.e., providing Intent - because he ends up on Canticle where he's never been before to start the story, and ends up in yet another place he's never been before at its conclusion.

Not providing a destination may precisely be the way to specify a new place. The question you are asking seems to me to be indirectly be the question about the size of the Cosmere. In fact it is combinatorics.

Complicated by him possibly not knowing the answer. Suppose he landed in the Final Empire and again on Southern Scadrial. Would he know that he is on the same planet by the time he needs to skip away?

[+robardin he/him]

9 minutes ago, Oltux72 said:

Not providing a destination may precisely be the way to specify a new place. The question you are asking seems to me to be indirectly be the question about the size of the Cosmere. In fact it is combinatorics.

Complicated by him possibly not knowing the answer. Suppose he landed in the Final Empire and again on Southern Scadrial. Would he know that he is on the same planet by the time he needs to skip away?

I think you and I are basically asking the same question/thinking the same thing, maybe from different directions.

We have only seen him arrive via Skip twice, and both times it's somewhere new to him, and neither time is he surprised by that. But he wonders where he has Skipped to "this time", suggesting many previous Skips - this is not his first, or second, Skip.

So I wondered if it might be that Skipping ALWAYS takes him "somewhere new", because if it was random - even allowing for the Skip mechanics to guarantee him arriving somewhere on a habitable, and inhabited, planet with available Investiture - he should eventually end up somewhere he's been before, including Roshar, or eventually back on Canticle.

Or, it's only semi-random - he can use anti-Intent to rule out destinations, or Vague Intent that has the same effect (i.e., "take me somewhere the Night Brigade hasn't and isn't trying to look for me").

Or, yes, he may someday Skip to Roshar or Canticle, and he's steeling himself to make as quick a getaway as possible in that eventuality, and to resist checking in on those he cares about.

Edited October 3, 2023 by robardin

[+Oltux72 he/him]

42 minutes ago, robardin said:

We have only seen him arrive via Skip twice, and both times it's somewhere new to him, and neither time is he surprised by that. But he wonders where he has Skipped to "this time", suggesting many previous Skips - this is not his first, or second, Skip.

He has been to "tens of planets". That gives a lower bound to the skips he has made.

So we are asking in effect has he been to some destinations multiple times?

42 minutes ago, robardin said:

So I wondered if it might be that Skipping ALWAYS takes him "somewhere new", because if it was random - even allowing for the Skip mechanics to guarantee him arriving somewhere on a habitable, and inhabited, planet with available Investiture - he should eventually end up somewhere he's been before, including Roshar, or eventually back on Canticle.

Yes, but the only hard data we have is two new destinations in a row. I think the only conclusion you can draw with any confidence is that he cannot have been to more than very roughly 2/3 of the worlds fitting the criteria.

[Ironeyes he/him]

This book has me reevaluating everything I thought about the Order of Skybreakers. I am now desperate to read some of Sigzil's story between when he bonded Auxiliary and when he broke his oaths. The way he acts in his moment of temporary return leads me to believe it's possible to be a Skybreaker without falling into the frankly repugnant culture the current order has under Nale. 

[+Child of Hodor]

2 hours ago, Ironeyes said:

This book has me reevaluating everything I thought about the Order of Skybreakers. I am now desperate to read some of Sigzil's story between when he bonded Auxiliary and when he broke his oaths. The way he acts in his moment of temporary return leads me to believe it's possible to be a Skybreaker without falling into the frankly repugnant culture the current order has under Nale. 

I had that thought too. “If Sigzil joined they must have improved post-Nale”

In the Szeth era I guess they got better. (Szeth probably won’t make it out of book 5 but you never know)

[supersmith]

Two things I haven't seen brought up yet. 

1. Sigzil notes that he had to take 'a crash course on tectonic plates' once he started world hopping, implying roshar has no tectonic plates, which seems like an odd detail. I remember an theory from awhile ago (can't find it now of course ) about the entire continent of roshar essentially being just one giant floating island, maybe even living creature like the island cities of the reshi isles but to an incredible scale, which would also help explain the rhythms as heartbeat/emotions of the creature. I don't think it's very likely but it is interesting.  

2. The word 'Whimsy' was used in a strange way. I don't know I this means anything, but could potentially hint at Whimsy being behind such a strange planet. 

[The Unknown Ajah he/him]

1 hour ago, supersmith said:

implying roshar has no tectonic plates,

I'm pretty sure Brandon had already confirmed this in WoBs before TSM was released.

[The Isochronism he/him]

I have a question for you smart guys out there. Did we already know that it was the dawnshards that were used to kill Adonalsium? Because that seems... huge. 

 

Anyway, I loved this book. I think my ranking of secret projects looks like 

1. Yumi

2. Tress

3. Sunlit Man

4. Frugal Wizard

 

But I will say the secret projects were different enough that it doesn't seem super fair to rank them on the same list. They were totally different genres. Every single one. I just enjoy fantasy books more than sci-fi books, which is why Frugal Wizard is last. I was really in the mood for a romance when Yumi came out, which is why Yumi is top. I prefer funny books to stoic ones, which is why Tress beat Sunlit Man. So while I know we're all going to rank the 4 secret projects in our minds at the very least, let's all keep in mind that they're all very different genres, so your bias of genre is going to probably be a bigger factor then writing quality whether you like it or not. We don't make books like "Dune" and "Lord of the rings" go head to head, for example, because it just doesn't make sense.  

[Treamayne]

14 hours ago, supersmith said:

1. Sigzil notes that he had to take 'a crash course on tectonic plates' once he started world hopping, implying roshar has no tectonic plates, which seems like an odd detail.

13 hours ago, The Known Novel said:

I'm pretty sure Brandon had already confirmed this in WoBs before TSM was released.

Here's the WoB:

Spoiler

Questioner

Does Roshar have plate tectonics?

Brandon Sanderson

Roshar does not have plate tectonics, good question.

Questioner

Well when I met you in Orem, I was asking about frequencies. And you said it was more the shape of the plate-- The frequency. We've got no plate tectonics, we've got people who like to sing.

Brandon Sanderson

Good question. Now the weird thing that we would have is with the crem, we have to do some weird geology gymnastics, because Roshar is moving...

Roshar, the continent of Roshar, it's moving, right? As it gets weathered and things like this. Making Roshar actually work requires some really interesting scientific gymnastics. But one of them is I just didn't think plate tectonics, or even volcanoes and things, is just not something that is going to work on Roshar the way that I built it. So I just stayed away from all of that.  It's a pangaea.

Questioners

Is the pangaea built up of crem?

Brandon Sanderson

 It's a pangaea built up of crem.

Rubix

Over a long time--

Brandon Sanderson

Well no, because it was created at first.

Bystander

And then crem was on top of it?

Brandon Sanderson

...The whole idea that this is a fractal-- The whole point of that is, somebody built this. Somebody built this using mathematics that you know. They said "Oh. Boom. Bing!" and grew themselves a continent.

Firefight release party (Jan. 5, 2015)

That was 2015 - so well before The Sunlit Man. . .

3 hours ago, The Isochronism said:

I have a question for you smart guys out there. Did we already know that it was the dawnshards that were used to kill Adonalsium? Because that seems... huge. 

Yes - it was in the Dawnshard Novella. Ch 19:

Spoiler

“The most powerful forms of Surgebinding transcend traditional mortal understanding,” Nikli said. His body began to re-form, hordelings crawling back into place. “All their greatest applications require Intent and a Command. Demands on a level no person could ever manage alone. To make such Commands, one must have the reasoning—the breadth of understanding—of a deity. And so, the Dawnshards. The four primal Commands that created all things.” He paused. “And then eventually, they were used to undo Adonalsium itself. . . .”

Cord whispered something in her own language.

“So you do know,” Nikli said to her.

 

Edited October 4, 2023 by Treamayne
Clarity

[Experience he/him]

Well that was a storming good book.

[teknopathetic he/him]

Does this book imply that Nomad was the leader of the Skybreaker for a time? My mind keep thinking “was Nomad a Skybreaker herald?” He joined a new order and became its leader before some catastrophic event took it down? 

And lastly, seems like Nomaf may have met Aux somewhere strange. Nomad draws attention to the fact that he met aux in a world made of obsidian.  Sure, that could be Shademaar because of the obsidian connection, but to me it made it seem like maybe he met Aux on Ashyn or Braize. I just don’t think Nomad would consider Rosharan Shadesmaar to be “another world”. 

Lastly, I am honestly annoyed that in a book entirely about someone having held a Dawnshard, Brandon decided to never mention which one he held. I felt as a reader I had been promised this by the narrative, but it was intentionally withheld from me for some meta reason.

Edited October 5, 2023 by teknopathetic

[Treamayne]

2 hours ago, teknopathetic said:

Lastly, I am honestly annoyed that in a book entirely about someone having held a Dawnshard, Brandon decided to never mention which one he held. I felt as a reader I had been promised this by the narrative, but it was intentionally withheld from me for some meta reason.

Understand and concur - though while reading I did note that Nomad also never said or implied that he held one of four Dawnshards. It felt to me more like he thought there was only one - the one he held. That may also play into the way it Commanded his abilities to protect itself. If Hoid conned him into becoming a vessel for a Dawnshard and didn't even clue him into the nature of a Dawnshard and its dangers - well that might explain some of the latent hostility in their interaction.

[+Child of Hodor]

6 hours ago, teknopathetic said:

Lastly, I am honestly annoyed that in a book entirely about someone having held a Dawnshard, Brandon decided to never mention which one he held. I felt as a reader I had been promised this by the narrative, but it was intentionally withheld from me for some meta reason.

Yeah I was hoping for slightly more.  He did say the one he and Hoid held is opposed to any kind of violence towards others which to me implies it can't be the CHANGE one because destruction is a type of change and is involved in ultimately positive change breaking down muscles causes them to strengthen etc. But I kind of assumed that already from Hoid being unable to directly harm people. 

[Chalke219]

Is it possible the planet could be some kind of incubating thing? 

 

Lots remains unclear about how the planet functions and that its very odd- I kept expecting a reveal that it would be a dragon egg or something similar

 

I don't have much to support this theory but something at the centre of the planet drawing in all the sunlight and warmth got me thinking along these lines 

[StormingTexan he/him]

I really liked this book. This will date myself (even though there is a current re-make) but it gave me serious Quantum Leap vibes. In the endnotes Brandon says this book was written as a gift to the fans and that was pretty clear with all the cosmere tidbits and a main character we already know. Interestingly though this one felt like a lot less of a Cosmere info dump as some of the other more recent books. I think because a lot of the information we receive just leads to more questions. It also helped the story was pretty fast pace which to be honest I felt was really lacking specifically in YatNP. I'll be honest Sigzil has never been the most interesting Bridge 4 character to me but man this book changed my opinion dramatically. 

[Fyodor32768]

On 10/2/2023 at 1:44 AM, Harkain said:

Collection of my thoughts a little bit after finishing the book.

• I have a sneaking suspicion based on this and sixth of the dusk snippet we saw ages ago that there's gonna be something specific about Skybreakers and going into the greater cosmere. Maybe something about their oaths or maybe something relating to their current status in Stormlight idk.

Maybe because they can fly places.

[The Sibling she/her]

Finally finished! It took me a little while, partially because I was busy, and partially because I was making a conscious effort to read slowly and enjoy the book. Everything was going fine until of course I got to the second half of the book and proceeded to devour the entire half in one evening (It's now almost 1 in the morning)

I'm a bit tired but hopefully this is all... coherent.

I love this book. So freaking much!!!! Sigzil, I love you. Elegy, I love you. Auxiliary = incredible!!! Some of my favourite parts were Nomad referencing Kaladin, because they really spoke to the impact that Kaladin has made on Sigzil and how that affects him even now. Also, this book just felt a bit more Cosmerey (that's a word, right?) than the other two Cosmere books. I know Brandon was experimenting with style, and that's great, but it was nice to have a book that felt more familiar. My last point is that I've been worried that space age Cosmere was going to ruin the Cosmere, and I am no longer worried because this book was storming incredible and still felt like part of the Cosmere even though there's lots of tech. 

My secret project rankings :

1. Yumi

2.  Sunlit man

3. Tress

4. Frugal wizard

Yumi was just such a beautiful book and the characters really spoke to me, but honestly during re-reads the Sunlit Man is probably going to be jumping to the to of my list.

[Bendalloy Savant]

Auxiliary had me tearing up at the end. Brandon always manages those emotion beats with me. I definitely like Sig a lot more than before but I also felt like we should have gotten more informationnon the past. It felt very deliberate that Brandon was tiptoeing around topics. I understand due to the setting he didn't want to spoil much for SA5 but it took me out of the book sometimes to think about the word choice and writing. I agree I think we were owed at least the command of the Dawnshard.

As I was reading, I was thinking the planet would be revealed to be so small because the sun was like a laser burning layers of the crust away, making it smaller and smaller until there was no planet left. The mentions of lava and stuff made me think they were living close to the core of the original planet. I figured Nomad needed to figure out the magic and get them all offworld before that happened. But I liked what we ended up with anyways.

I'm wondering if this planet will become more relevant in the space age future of the cosmere when the people can put a satellite around the planet to exist safely above the dangers of the Sun, and still harvest batteries. I think it's possible that the existing Canticlites may be preyed upon by other advanced Cosmerians to continue to be a source for energy if they are not able to get ahead of things. I wonder if other Threnodites could be expedited to Canticle and if killed, still produce a sun battery, I just think this could be another opportunity for nefarious breeding/harvesting/stockpiling like on Scadrial/Nalthis.

[Uncle Karlos]

Great book, a lot of things to consider on the reread. One thing that made me chuckle, when Nomad was in the Scadrian research pod and the TimeTeller said to him:

“What are their problems to us?…You’re a mercenary, Rosharan. You know there are dozens of these little planets scattered around, all with their own backward monarchies and their own stupid ways of doing things. What, you want us to take in everyone who is having a bad day?”

A little planet with a backward monarchy sounds a lot like Scadrial under the Lord Ruler doesn’t it? Its crazy how far the Scadrians have come from the ska we saw in era 1. I think that line was intentional. 

Edited October 10, 2023 by Uncle Karlos

[Sparks]

On 10/9/2023 at 7:53 PM, Uncle Karlos said:

Great book, a lot of things to consider on the reread. One thing that made me chuckle, when Nomad was in the Scadrian research pod and the TimeTeller said to him:

“What are their problems to us?…You’re a mercenary, Rosharan. You know there are dozens of these little planets scattered around, all with their own backward monarchies and their own stupid ways of doing things. What, you want us to take in everyone who is having a bad day?”

Sounds like the TimeTeller is writing a new book called The Frugal Surgebinder's Handbook for Surviving the Medieval Cosmere.

[Edema Rue she/her]

*loud screaming*

*quiet sobbing*

I finished it…

[clowncarcrash]

I loved this book. It was kinda surreal/dream to see what a finally merged/consolidated Cosmere would be like. One thing I loved was the villain, is that it kinda plays with the trope where a smart villain or a villain who think he's smart is able to deduce a bunch of outrageous facts. The villain thinks he's that guy but he's not, lol.

 

I was hoping I could deduce what happens with SA5 but apparently it takes place after SA10.