Long Game 96: KKC in the Modern Age

[Kasimir he/him]

1 minute ago, Sart said:

Okay, thank you. Next question. How much EP does STINK have in Linguistics?

...I guess your votes now have a function!

[Sart he/him]

We can do the worst case scenario math, since we know when STINK was elevated. Let's assume he's spent all his EP on Linguistics.

T1M1: Linguistics 0. Pre-Game Linguistics. Submits 5 EP into Linguistics.
T1M2: Elevated to Linguistics 1. Currently at 5 EP. Submits 4 EP into Linguistics.
T1M3: Stuck at Linguistics 1. Currently at 9 EP. Submits 4 EP into Linguistics.
T2M1: Elevated to Linguistics 2. Currently at 8 EP. Submits 3 EP into Linguistics.
T2M2: Stuck at Linguistics 2. Currently at 11 EP. Submits 3 EP into Linguistics
T2M3: Still Stuck at Linguistics 2. Currently at 14 EP. Submits 3 EP into Linguistics
T3M1: Elevated to Linguistics 3. Currently at 17 EP. Submits 2 EP into Linguistics
T3M2: Should be Master. Currently at 19 EP. Submits 2 EP into Linguistics.
T3M3: Should already be Master

Only way this makes sense is if STINK lost EP due to forgetting actions, or by getting extremely unlucky with DP. Either way, he should be extremely close to becoming Master. In addition, this necessitates Szeth (or technically Archer) going into Linguistics.

[Mat he/him]

I do agree with that^. If we wanna vote cause we’re worried about e Masters, well, we shoulda done Ash yesterday, but really Stink takes priority over Archer today 

[Sart he/him]

@Matrim's Dice Since you're on, did you elevate in Linguistics on T1M3? It's either you or Araris, and I'm just trying to work it out.

[Kasimir he/him]

20 minutes ago, Sart said:

We can do the worst case scenario math, since we know when STINK was elevated. Let's assume he's spent all his EP on Linguistics.

T1M1: Linguistics 0. Pre-Game Linguistics. Submits 5 EP into Linguistics.
T1M2: Elevated to Linguistics 1. Currently at 5 EP. Submits 4 EP into Linguistics.
T1M3: Stuck at Linguistics 1. Currently at 9 EP. Submits 4 EP into Linguistics.
T2M1: Elevated to Linguistics 2. Currently at 8 EP. Submits 3 EP into Linguistics.
T2M2: Stuck at Linguistics 2. Currently at 11 EP. Submits 3 EP into Linguistics
T2M3: Still Stuck at Linguistics 2. Currently at 14 EP. Submits 3 EP into Linguistics
T3M1: Elevated to Linguistics 3. Currently at 17 EP. Submits 2 EP into Linguistics
T3M2: Should be Master. Currently at 19 EP. Submits 2 EP into Linguistics.
T3M3: Should already be Master

Only way this makes sense is if STINK lost EP due to forgetting actions, or by getting extremely unlucky with DP. Either way, he should be extremely close to becoming Master. In addition, this necessitates Szeth (or technically Archer) going into Linguistics.

He did go on the Horns at one point so I guess it's possible but hard to model. If your numbers are right, this entails making judgement calls on STINK and Archer at this juncture. 

[Sart he/him]

6 minutes ago, Kasimir said:

He did go on the Horns at one point so I guess it's possible but hard to model. If your numbers are right, this entails making judgement calls on STINK and Archer at this juncture. 

I'd rather vote for the person who stayed quite about almost becoming a master than the person who voted on themselves because of it.

Edit: We can also easily confirm if someone has the Linguistics 1 ability, since he's apparently done the other two. All we would need is confirmation that he sent a PM to an expelled student.

Edited August 12, 2023 by Sart

[The Unknown Medallion he/him]

12 minutes ago, Sart said:

All we would need is confirmation that he sent a PM to an expelled student.

Students can talk to us, it's just expelled students that can't talk to students. I know, weird, but it's been pretty convenient. 

Edit: I don't know if I want to exe STINK right now. It's like Kas said, why would he post the scannable anon-messages? I'll decide after football tomorrow. 

Edited August 12, 2023 by The Known Novel

[Mat he/him]

Dunno when I elevated but yeah it was linguistics

[Araris Valerian he/him]

Kas figured out I have Arithmetic 1 somehow. Was kinda the obvious choice for me, given that I already had an essay ready (oral prelim syllabus FTW!), though in hindsight (and without getting expelled) it may have been smarter to just go for Master Arithmetics with the other 3 in something else.

[Kasimir he/him]

7 hours ago, The Known Novel said:

Students can talk to us, it's just expelled students that can't talk to students. I know, weird, but it's been pretty convenient. 

Edit: I don't know if I want to exe STINK right now. It's like Kas said, why would he post the scannable anon-messages? I'll decide after football tomorrow. 

Should note for everyone's benefit that I gave STINK the rainbow message to post because I asked if he was cool with doing something loltastic. I wish I found something more funny but skittles are still cool.

4 hours ago, Araris Valerian said:

Kas figured out I have Arithmetic 1 somehow. Was kinda the obvious choice for me, given that I already had an essay ready (oral prelim syllabus FTW!), though in hindsight (and without getting expelled) it may have been smarter to just go for Master Arithmetics with the other 3 in something else.

Drake had 8 EP then 7 EP in Arith and didn't elevate. We traded our class and EP D1 because I threatened to do it to him to horrify him in some other game. Each Month, at most one student elevates per field. Mat's ability to PM freely despite being expelled indicates he has Linguistics 1. You were the only player I had no account for and since Drake didn't elevate, the only explanation is you did.

[|TJ| he/him]

[Araris/Mat], [Scanners], [Steel/Ash] is where I'm at right now. 

If kills are being withheld deliberately, I suspect it's the work of scanners. If there is a way to track what action they are taking, they are possibly afraid of being of caught what they're not supposed to do, and they are forced to follow up on what they said they'd do.

If kills are not being withheld deliberately, it points to Steel or Ash. 

Either way, since there is an evidence of lack of kills, any combination of the above could be the answer. 

Prioritizing about-to-be-Master players could be the way to ensure a win, but I also think Steel should be voted out at some point. We cannot expect the streets to do the job. 

[Kasimir he/him]

18 minutes ago, |TJ| said:

If kills are being withheld deliberately, I suspect it's the work of scanners. If there is a way to track what action they are taking, they are possibly afraid of being of caught what they're not supposed to do, and they are forced to follow up on what they said they'd do.

There isn't. And one way or another, I don't really see why this line of reasoning works for you: from V!TJ's perspective, the scanners have to be lying one way or another, correct? Because if you are V!TJ, then there is no way in hell you scan red. The problem is the only world in which you are V and the scanners V is if Wonko is E or I am E. Due to a separate scan, it's pretty clear TKN is V. I don't really understand your logic here.

So if the scanners are lying, why is the withheld kill even part of the calculus?

Edited to add:

To be clear, you are more or less committed to E!me, E!Wonko (then why'd Wonko get C3ed?) or E!Archer.

I think E!Wonko is the least plausible, E!me is pretty kayana too, and have been going to and fro on E!Archer but lean no right now.

Edited August 12, 2023 by Kasimir

[Araris Valerian he/him]

16 minutes ago, |TJ| said:

 

[Araris/Mat]

 

Any chance of an explanation here? I wouldn’t be terribly surprised to find Mat as village, and I know my own alignment.

[Kasimir he/him]

[TAG: RP, 387 words]

23 minutes ago, Araris Valerian said:

Any chance of an explanation here? I wouldn’t be terribly surprised to find Mat as village, and I know my own alignment.

I think a lot of things hinges on Archer's alignment now. If V!Archer, then you and Mat are more likely V. In a world where exeing Archer gives us a flip, sure, that makes sense. But since we don't automatically get a flip just by exeing him, that becomes a question of whether people want to play preventive action against an E!Archer world or not.

They do need three fields for field destruction, so the bigger question IMO is whether STINK missed EP or whether Sart's calculations hint that he went into Naming. Even then, the field victory really doesn't feel like the intuitive path forward for an Elim team.

@Ashbringer - Suppose you're V. Who would you vote to exe today and who are you looking to DP?

lxxxiii. renlin

“Hey, Renlin,” Kevan greeted, as he encountered Renlin, a sheaf of papers in hand.

“Hey, Kevan,” Renlin nodded a greeting, then gestured with a flick of his head the direction of the Chancellor’s Office. “Still at war with the Chancellor’s Office?"

Kevan nodded. That gesture encompassed an entire universe of weariness. “You?”

Renlin grimaced. That expression, too, said everything that Kevan needed to know. “Yeah. I think Master Anders is really tired of this kraem—he went over and started asking why they were taking so long the last time. I’m hoping they’ll actually process my appeal by today.”

“Yeah, Master Bob said he’d talk with Master Volatile, see if there’s anything she can do about it.” Personally, after slightly over a month of constant back-and-forth with the Chancellor’s Office, Kevan had come to doubt there was anything Master Volatile, even in her capacity as Chancellor, could do about the eldritch alternate dimension where paperwork and the souls and hopes of students went to die. Said eldritch alternate dimension currently masqueraded as a benign Chancellor’s Office, but really, they all knew better.

They both shared weary smiles. Neither of them really cared for Advanced Sympathy II, which was in Kevan’s view, interesting but really not what he was in the University to study and it was, moreover, putting him in violation of Master Bob’s fairly reasonable study guidelines for El’the in his Medica, whereas Renlin simply found sympathy utterly boring and wasn’t afraid to slag it repeatedly in Master Anders’s classes.

“Master Volatile resigned. You didn’t hear?” Renlin asked.

Oh, kraem. Oh, Tehlu’s bloody balls. He supposed he should’ve put two and two together since Issal’d become Master Alchemist, even though one way or another, if you thought about it, it was insanely unrealistic. No one made Master Alchemist this quickly (just like no one made El’the this quickly? His mind asked. In Kevan’s opinion, this was the foremost reason to suspect something was wrong with this universe: these, and the intransigence of the Chancellor’s Office.)

“No,” Kevan groaned. “Who’s Chancellor now?”

“Who knows?” Renlin shrugged. “I feel like they’re probably going to tell us to get our paperwork endorsed by whoever takes over from Master Volatile.”

“Kraemet brevetan Aerin,” Kevan cursed.

“Yeah, I hate it too,” Renlin sighed. “I really hope the new Chancellor fixes this, somehow…”

Edited August 12, 2023 by Kasimir

[|TJ| he/him]

1 hour ago, Kasimir said:

There isn't. And one way or another, I don't really see why this line of reasoning works for you: from V!TJ's perspective, the scanners have to be lying one way or another, correct? Because if you are V!TJ, then there is no way in hell you scan red. The problem is the only world in which you are V and the scanners V is if Wonko is E or I am E. Due to a separate scan, it's pretty clear TKN is V. I don't really understand your logic here.

Look. My logic -

They don't really need to actually scan people to give out results -> so they're likely not actually scanning -> they're only pretending to scan -> if so, why aren't they killing? -> maybe there's a way to track actions and they want to make sure they follow through? 

[Kasimir he/him]

13 minutes ago, |TJ| said:

Look. My logic -

They don't really need to actually scan people to give out results -> so they're likely not actually scanning -> they're only pretending to scan -> if so, why aren't they killing? -> maybe there's a way to track actions and they want to make sure they follow through? 

There isn't. You show me what it is apart from Naming, and both our Namers are down for the count.

Edited to add:

And my point is that if you know you are V, then it should be a given the scanner is Evil. Since you don't seem to believe I'm Evil or Wonko is Evil, then there should be no 'or' in your head - or rather, it has to be inclusive or. I don't understand why you actually think this has options.

Edited to add 2:

Adding a reminder to everyone who can vote:

@Sart @Archer @Wonko the Sane @Ashbringer @STINK

If you are voting, then we need to converge on an option, I think. In an E!Ash world, he has plausible deniability for slamming down EP on a secondary train and ensuring a double exe. In general, I'm just not sure we should be allowing a multi-exe to go through this cycle. I think it reduces our room for error drastically, especially given there is a flip next Turn, and if Araris did the sensible thing, well. Enough said there.

I'm going to leave my vote on Steel for the moment and hope I wake up in time before rollover. This one I don't feel is the worst CW to have but we should not be giving a menu of options or a chance for a multi-exe, especially if you don't believe in V!Ash. Please converge if you can.

Edited August 12, 2023 by Kasimir

[Wonko the Sane he/him]

57 minutes ago, Kasimir said:

There isn't. You show me what it is apart from Naming, and both our Namers are down for the count.

Edited to add:

And my point is that if you know you are V, then it should be a given the scanner is Evil. Since you don't seem to believe I'm Evil or Wonko is Evil, then there should be no 'or' in your head - or rather, it has to be inclusive or. I don't understand why you actually think this has options.

To elaborate on Kas’s point, TJ, it is an absolute guarantee that the set {Archer, Kas, TJ, Wonko} contains at least one eliminator, which you should know already from the evidence provided. So why are you looking at the missed kills for evidence against Archer? V!You already has 100% evidence that Archer is evil, unless you believe Kas’s entire game has been a long con, or that the Elim team took the riskiest WGG of all time with me.

1 hour ago, Kasimir said:

Adding a reminder to everyone who can vote:

@Sart @Archer @Wonko the Sane @Ashbringer @STINK

If you are voting, then we need to converge on an option, I think. In an E!Ash world, he has plausible deniability for slamming down EP on a secondary train and ensuring a double exe. In general, I'm just not sure we should be allowing a multi-exe to go through this cycle. I think it reduces our room for error drastically, especially given there is a flip next Turn, and if Araris did the sensible thing, well. Enough said there.

I'm going to leave my vote on Steel for the moment and hope I wake up in time before rollover. This one I don't feel is the worst CW to have but we should not be giving a menu of options or a chance for a multi-exe, especially if you don't believe in V!Ash. Please converge if you can.

Strongly agreed here, guys. Archer, Archer. I’m actually willing to support any of the current trains, because we DO NOT want to face a possible two E!Masters, but I’m very much against two exes tonight. Most scenarios in which the village wins here involve HEAVY turtling, and we do want to lose turns by losing more people than necessary.

If we converge on an exe for Archer or Stink, I’ll add my vote to it. If not, I’ll put my vote on Steel, to minimize the damage a potential two-exe cycle does to us.

@Archer @Sart One of you, please move your votes; I don’t have a particular preference for which.

[STINK he/him]

Right well read this thread and I'm somehow back in the picture lol it's either steel or someone in the scheming group idk how that's not clear

Gonna check again later but like lol

[Wonko the Sane he/him]

43 minutes ago, STINK said:

Right well read this thread and I'm somehow back in the picture lol it's either steel or someone in the scheming group idk how that's not clear

Gonna check again later but like lol

Can you confirm whether you’re one turn away from Master Linguist right now?

[STINK he/him]

Yeah would have got it if it I didn't forget to put EP in on C1 lol

But this is obvious to anyone paying attention so like it's a question I can answer cause it's just obvious innit like 

[Ashbringer he/him]

5 hours ago, Kasimir said:

@Ashbringer - Suppose you're V. Who would you vote to exe today and who are you looking to DP?

Look, I am very out of the loop. I had asked a question in my GM PM about the different scans and everything and the answer didn't exactly help me, although I think I have some idea what's happening. A little.

Between STINK and Archer, I'd rather exe STINK STINK. I still don't know how I feel about Archer, but my only reason to suspect him was a tangent from TJ, and that goes a little out the window if Archer was the one who scanned TJ. And STINK's been seemingly quieter about the rise to Mastery.

I'll put my DP on STINK for now. But I'm also going to try something else out. We'll see if it works.

[Sart he/him]

@STINK You're here. Good to see you. Basically, Archer has been claiming Archives scanner, which is questionable at this point, but is a bold claim. He's been scanning vote trains to determine evil or good. It's not bulletproof, but it is a powerful ability.

[STINK he/him]

I'm carte blancheing susing anyone who suses me because in what world do I ignore scheming group and have Kas be like hey man be nice to have you but I say no because you've all done nothing to gain my trust lol

I know the mechanics of this game and still somewhat trying to chill / reflect what I'm given as my go to style but fun fact only received pms from one guy this whole game so for you lot to care about me now like cool

But yeah it's a mess we've ended up here and I'm going back to my drinking night with friends lol if we lose this it's w/e messed up with EP one cycle but otherwise wouldn't really change much sorry buckos good luck next time look forward to the elim doc and ctrl+f my name so last elim left drop me a mention it'll be fun

But yeah it's literally steel or someone in your group trying to solve things because why would it functionally be anyone else and Kas is chill so not him and if it is he deserves it so not my problem you form a trust group and close yourselves off you sort yourselves out it's whatever

[Sart he/him]

• If it's Steel, I feel like I need to start drinking.
• If it's Kas, I feel like he deserves the win given all his effort.
• If it's Ash, I feel like we've already lost.
• If it's STINK, I'm ticked off.
• If it's Archer, I feel like we go around in circles.

This is where my head is at.

[STINK he/him]

Right 10 minutes which of you lot is the one being voted I'm making it simple here those of you care lmk