Long Game 96: KKC in the Modern Age

[Archer he/him]

Fully on board with the Szeth kill, I just gotta do a thing for mech reasons. Nobody mess with this plz

SZETH SZETH ASHBOINGER

[Araris Valerian he/him]

What are folks’ preferences on flipping expelled people? Just in case I ever save enough money for assassins. I have my own thoughts but figure it could minimally be a useful exercise.

Edited August 10, 2023 by Araris Valerian

[Sart he/him]

Okay, wait. Backing up a sec. TKN scanned village? Then why was there no insanity that month? I guess we're back to square one on that thread then. I don't like this. Theoretically, there should be some push back from expelled players since Szeth would be their only hope of winning the game. Of course, it could also be Drake that's inactive, but again, that seems too easy. I might be getting too paranoid now, but whatever. It's going to mess with the thread too much if I change course now. Szeth Szeth.

[Mat he/him]

45 minutes ago, Sart said:

Theoretically, there should be some push back from expelled players since Szeth would be their only hope of winning the game. Of course, it could also be Drake that's inactive, but again, that seems too easy.

I’m checked out more than I’d like (and also village lol) but as an option Szeth seems fine to me. Drake is insane, last I checked, so I don’t think he’ll be submitting any actions or voting any time soon :P.

[Kasimir he/him]

Just now, Matrim's Dice said:

I’m checked out more than I’d like (and also village lol) but as an option Szeth seems fine to me. Drake is insane, last I checked, so I don’t think he’ll be submitting any actions or voting any time soon :P.

Tell us something new... :eyes:

EDITED TO ADD:

@Araris Valerian Given that I was asking a thread that had zero mood to discuss whose flip they most wanted and stated I wanted TJ's, I think it’s pretty clear who I'd go for. 

Edited August 11, 2023 by Kasimir

[little wilson she/her]

The turn is now over!

[Elbereth she/her]

 

---

Mysterious Bulletin:

Quote

Ring ding ding daa baa
Baa aramba baa bom baa barooumba
Wh-wha-what's going on-on?
Ding, ding
This is the Crazy Frog

Isaal/Ash was elevated to Master Alchemist

Szeth and Sart were brought on the horns and charged with Conduct Unbecoming. Szeth was expelled! Sart was lashed!

Szeth (8) - Kas, Kas, Ash, Ash, Stink, Stink, Sart, Sart
Ashbringer (0) - Archer

 

Player List

1. Matrim's Dice - expelled
2. Kasimir
3. The Known Novel - expelled
4. Steeldancer
5. JNV - insane
6. Wonko the Sane - formerly insane
7. Archer
8. Drake Marshall - insane
9. Ashbringer
10. TJ - expelled
11. Araris Valerian - expelled
12. Szeth Pancakes - expelled
13. Stink
14. Sart

 

[Araris Valerian he/him]

Well, if the Skindancers don’t want to sabotage us then I don’t have any complaints. I did successfully buy an assassin last month (though I missed Kas’s post), so hopefully we will get the first flip at the end of the month.

[Mat he/him]

Not cool  You know who you are

2 minutes ago, Araris Valerian said:

Well, if the Skindancers don’t want to sabotage us then I don’t have any complaints. I did successfully buy an assassin last month (though I missed Kas’s post), so hopefully we will get the first flip at the end of the month.

I'm the target, aren't I :P.

[Kasimir he/him]

6 minutes ago, Araris Valerian said:

Well, if the Skindancers don’t want to sabotage us then I don’t have any complaints. I did successfully buy an assassin last month (though I missed Kas’s post), so hopefully we will get the first flip at the end of the month.

Please, for the love of Tehlu, tell me you targeted someone who was expelled.

Also, I really don't want to bloody say it but I absolutely feel I must, given I was frustrated to the point of swearing in my GM PM at the constant refusal of anyone to try to discuss, even as I kept saying this was not making sense and could people please fecking discuss rather than sitting the feck down with Village fecking complacency.

 

Edited to add: @Elbereth Write-up is borked.

Literally. I sat in the karking thread begging people to discuss. Y'all decided the game was so in the bag we could afford to piss that karking momentum away. I'm pretty karking disgusted with everyone right now because it feels like I'm playing for a Village that absolutely gives zero crems and isn't remotely interested in trying to play a game they signed up for.

Edited August 11, 2023 by Kasimir

[The Unknown Order he/him]

4 minutes ago, Matrim's Dice said:

Not cool  You know who you are

I'm the target, aren't I :P.

You're in Imre I'm guessing?

[Mat he/him]

Just now, The Known Novel said:

You're in Imre I'm guessing?

Permanently

I completely blame you for that ngl

[Kasimir he/him]

@little wilson @Elbereth So, what are, hypothetically-speaking, the chances of my getting a pinch-hitter if I'm absolutely karking done with the kraem attitude from this Village and don't really have the desire to keep playing on?

Edited to add:

Like Tehlu's freakin' angels. I kept asking questions. I backread. I pointed to stuff that didn't really work.

Not a single Tehlu-damned person here even thought it was worth engaging with.

I wanted to get that karking lynch right instead of wasting our karking time and everyone thought it was so karking in the bag we could sit the frick back and frickin' do nothing and not even bother discussing because hahaha why did we sign up for this game right?

I should stop ranting but I'm so mad if I had a kill right now I'd murder y'all and just call it a day.

Christ.

Edited August 11, 2023 by Kasimir

[Kasimir he/him]

Archer Archer

I swear to bloody Tehlu I'm going to just vote every single one of you.

[Archer he/him]

I'll admit I thought the game was over. But I'm not sure what else you wanted from last round, since Szeth seemed like a great choice. Clearly the wrong choice, but y'know. Flipless game and the point and shoot phase does that 

I personally don't like the tone of the top post combined with the votes in the below post. You're free to vote for me, but please keep it civil. 

I've got some due diligence to do for a bit, so I'll revisit this in the morning 

[Kasimir he/him]

1 minute ago, Archer said:

I'll admit I thought the game was over. But I'm not sure what else you wanted from last round, since Szeth seemed like a great choice. Clearly the wrong choice, but y'know. Flipless game and the point and shoot phase does that 

I wanted people to actually sit, discuss, and consider. I pointed out things that didn't make sense. I wanted us to at least consider what is going on. I wanted us to consider discrepancies and to make sense of things: does an Elim say X? Does this make sense with that team? I have pointed out issues germane to Szeth and the sense that Ash should be considered. I have made 22 posts over the last cycle and 21 over the previous, and 95 PMs and 45 PMs respectively, soliciting thoughts, begging, always begging for engagement. The fact of the matter is that I have been ignored since the cycle where TJ was lynched where as of seven hours to rollover that cycle, I have been actively begging people to please engage with the discussion.

3 minutes ago, Archer said:

I personally don't like the tone of the top post combined with the votes in the below post. You're free to vote for me, but please keep it civil. 

I do not appreciate being tone policed after reasonable anger at being ignored for one and a half cycles straight of begging, cajoling, and pleading. The attitude of this community and playerbase towards playing a game you all signed up to play is abhorrent and negligent. You all decided that it was acceptable to rest on your laurels and to not remotely consider other cases. I extensively warned people this could be problematic. I extensively and repeatedly cited MR53, where you all famously ignored Az, deciding you all had the game in the bag. 

Az was not a hit.

I cited MR52, where Drake and I simply assumed Xino was Evil. 

Xino was not a hit.

This is not the first time people simply cannot be bothered to play a game they have signed up to actually play. I remind everyone I have been pushing for more analysis or sensemaking since T2M3. I have been repeatedly ignored. I have put in more effort to beg and cajole people. I continued to be ignored.

I don't care to hide my anger at the state of the game any more. I have said my piece. At this point, I could hardly care less, and if they can give me a pinch-hitter, I'm more than happy to take one so I don't have to deal with this.

[Sart he/him]

I feel bad Kas, but I was busy with IRL stuff for the past two nights. I'm going to be much more active this weekend, which should help.

[Mat he/him]

I mean. How do we know it wasn't a hit? There are more worlds than TJ/Araris/Szeth. There are worlds with four elims, imo. The game not being over doesn't super surprise me. The reason I was fine to sit back with it was because I think we have a large cushion to sit back on. There are, at absolute most, two 'alive' elims, barring e!Archivist or something else super screwy. It's... not exlo, especially with the elim wincon being Kill Everyone and there being no sabotage for like four months in a row or however long it was. I sat back with the Szeth kill because, simply put, I could. Maybe that's a bad reason, but with out of the loop expelled me, that's what I was fine with.

Szeth could have been a hit. If not, it certainly was worth the try. If we only exed people we were 100% confident on, we wouldn't get anywhere.

[Ashbringer he/him]

1 hour ago, Elbereth said:

Isaal/Ash was elevated to Master Alchemist

The writeup really just up and says it doesn't it.

 

Well... I'm not entirely sure to do with this. I think the reason I didn't give my thoughts on whether or not we should expel Ash is fairly obvious. And it's hard to give thoughts when I barely have time to actually think. And I can't exactly do much with my cool Mastery abilities at the moment.

Master Issal should give some good RP opportunities, at least 

[Araris Valerian he/him]

1 hour ago, Kasimir said:

Please, for the love of Tehlu, tell me you targeted someone who was expelled.

Yeah, I did. I figure a flip is way more valuable than gambling on someone going to Imre.

Edit: In response to a PM I’ve received:

1. Yes
2. Ash
3. Sorta enough

Edited August 11, 2023 by Araris Valerian

[The Unknown Order he/him]

Also in response to I think the same PM:

1. Yes.

2. Yesn't (Would probably say the latter, but at this point it could go either way)

3. No.

Oh, yeah, Archer, Archer I figure we have a big enough cushion to expel you, then go after more pressing targets if we don't win. I think in a e!you world we win with a you then Stink exe, and in a v!you world we win with a Steel then Stink then potentially Ash exe. And you can keep doing what you're doing while expelled, but with less paranoia.

My personal current plan for who to exe:

Archer, Steel, STINK, Ash (if Ash does anything untoward, he jumps straight to the top), myself because at that point I don't know what in the world is going on.

@Kasimir, is there a problem with that plan? I think we are guaranteed to catch an elim in the first two, so we shouldn't be in danger of a loss, right?

[Ashbringer he/him]

TKN, the problem with the eventually-exe-Ash plan is that Masters can’t be exed…

[Kasimir he/him]

2 hours ago, Matrim's Dice said:

Szeth could have been a hit. If not, it certainly was worth the try. If we only exed people we were 100% confident on, we wouldn't get anywhere.

Was it? How do you know?

You tell me I don't know either, and I didn't know, but both Sart and I commented about our bad feelings about this. I also struggled in various PMs with people on two points, which people never bothered to address or talk out:

1. If E!Szeth could kill, why didn't he file EP and elevate sooner? Did he try Naming?

2. If Szeth was Evil, why the frick was D1 so chill? Did the Elims seriously not care he was in the lead trains? 

3. General complacency/people being alright with the vote.

I am not saying we don't exe Szeth. I am saying that if we tried to remotely think about it, it would have been preferable to us simply assuming it was right. You setting the bar at 100% confidence is a straw man. The point isn't 100% confidence - the point is making a discussed, reasoned vote rather than kneejerking to Szeth or at least trying to think it through.

2 hours ago, Matrim's Dice said:

The reason I was fine to sit back with it was because I think we have a large cushion to sit back on.

With Ash being unexpellable, STINK out of country, and Steel deadweight, sure. Remind me, do we have a kill? If we don't, the only worlds in which we are getting rid of E!Ash is if one of the unexpelled players gets down to Imre and sets an Assassin on him. If there is one. If we can afford one. If Ash doesn't just DP that player and block off Imre locations for them. There are so many ifs here I am questioning if you've considered the actual size of your cushion - in a two Elim remaining world, I'm not even sure we have the votes to insure we don't lose to a double expulsion. I was wargaming with Wonko about an E!Archer world and concluded that E!Archer could win in two Turns. We do not have that cushion, I'm sorry to break your illusion.

1 hour ago, The Known Novel said:

Oh, yeah, Archer, Archer I figure we have a big enough cushion to expel you, then go after more pressing targets if we don't win. I think in a e!you world we win with a you then Stink exe, and in a v!you world we win with a Steel then Stink then potentially Ash exe. And you can keep doing what you're doing while expelled, but with less paranoia.

Question for you: how many times does a scan fail before it seems weird or as though the player is just buying time?

1 hour ago, The Known Novel said:

@Kasimir, is there a problem with that plan? I think we are guaranteed to catch an elim in the first two, so we shouldn't be in danger of a loss, right?

Not sure about Ash. Is there some reason you have a good read on Ash? I'll say outright I liked his post last cycle, but am not sure that's much to base a read off.

1 hour ago, Araris Valerian said:

Yeah, I did. I figure a flip is way more valuable than gambling on someone going to Imre.

Thank you.

Edited to add: @The Known Novel - Second question for you. You don't have Sart and myself on the list. Why?

Edited to add 2: Is the opinion that this is a roleblocked kill or that this was a deliberately withheld kill? I -hmm.

Weird question. 

What if we refused to expel anyone today. I know Wilson is gonna hate me for this, but...

Look. There's been two failed sabotages. If it wasn't a roleblock, if it's a deliberately withheld kill, isn't this functionally a 'who blinks first' situation? 

Gonna admit I lowkey think this is a bad idea but at the same time, it fundamentally depends on whether:

A. You think Archer's scans can be trusted
B. You think Ash should be allowed to go hog-wild with Plum Bob.|
C. You think Sart or STINK should be allowed to go hog-wild with Linguistic Analysis or whichever capstone Sart is trying for.

Edited August 11, 2023 by Kasimir

[STINK he/him]

Has Steeldancer really been in the streets just chilling this whole time?

[Kasimir he/him]

1 hour ago, STINK said:

Has Steeldancer really been in the streets just chilling this whole time?

Yep. Hasn't logged back in.