Long Game 95: The Fire of Ado's Light

[xinoehp512]

1 hour ago, Ashbringer said:

I do have another idea - that Odium’s Charge of Investiture could instead only Kill if the target has no Charges of Investiture and just remove one if they do.

I like that! It's similar to being roleblocked, but distinctly different. It's also in line with Odium thematically, given how much that particular Shard is into corrupting other Investiture. If someone was using their last Charge of Investiture when they were targeted, would their action fail or would they die?

1 hour ago, Ashbringer said:

(Also SoU doesn’t care much about Splintered Shards. AC does, although I’m wondering how balanced that is… hmmm.)

Splintered Shards can't be passed, though, so Khriss has to win the minimum 1/4 chance to grab it out of containment in order to be able to Invest it.

It's also worth considering that in the original game, there were only 11 shards- now there are sixteen. That also means that the unique win conditions of both SoU and AC will take longer to fulfill.

It's also interesting to note that if Cultivation is ever Shattered, AC's unique wincon becomes impossible to fulfil- so if a 17th member grabs Odium, they can pop Cultivation in confinement and end that possibility right there.

[Ashbringer]

43 minutes ago, xinoehp512 said:

I like that! It's similar to being roleblocked, but distinctly different. It's also in line with Odium thematically, given how much that particular Shard is into corrupting other Investiture. If someone was using their last Charge of Investiture when they were targeted, would their action fail or would they die?

A good question! 

Uh...

Depends where that ability goes in the OoA. It would be weird if it happened before Ruin's Investiture, but then it would only consume some kinds of Charges of Investiture and not others. Which on paper seems fine, I'd have to figure out if practice changes that.

I'd imagine if someone was using a Charge of Investiture that occurred before / at the same time as Odium's Charge of Investiture, it would ignore it and either erase another Charge of Investiture or turn into a Kill action if there was none. So that's Ruin's, Whimsy's, Honor's, Valor's, and Odium's. (I'd also imagine I'd deprioritize Charges of Investiture that are being used even after, so it's a bit less of a random chance of a roleblock.)

43 minutes ago, xinoehp512 said:

Splintered Shards can't be passed, though, so Khriss has to win the minimum 1/4 chance to grab it out of containment in order to be able to Invest it.

It's also worth considering that in the original game, there were only 11 shards- now there are sixteen. That also means that the unique win conditions of both SoU and AC will take longer to fulfill.

It's also interesting to note that if Cultivation is ever Shattered, AC's unique wincon becomes impossible to fulfil- so if a 17th member grabs Odium, they can pop Cultivation in confinement and end that possibility right there.

Yeah all the Sudden Deaths are pretty hard, by design. Autonomous' is probably a bit "easier", but also anyone can pitch in to stop it by shifting the Charge balance.

And yup, that's the interaction that's making me wonder how balanced those two are 

Edited May 24, 2023 by Ashbringer

[DrakeMarshall]

10 hours ago, xinoehp512 said:

I see how it is...

I feel like the root cause of the issue is that Odious Charges are just so much more potent then every other Charge of Investiture. Really, it isn't really that difficult to gain a charge of any type of Investiture, in any stage of the game. Sel exists, for one. With Odium, Whimsy's Investment ability essentially becomes a kill, and Invention's Shardic is a third per-cycle kill if they get their hands on an Odious Charge.

I feel like having Braize exist satisfies the need for endgame kills; Odious Investiture will be practically guaranteed to shorten the game if it keeps its power as-is, which makes everything significantly more volatile. If it was changed to roleblock, matching Ruin, or something else, that problem would be much assuaged.

Honestly, I don't even think it would need to be a deliberate strat to cause problems. The fact is, pretty much every faction has a reason to want Odium, especially the 17th Shard, so a lot of people will go for it. That leaves a lot of kills floating around.

Personally, if that change is implemented, I would rather that change not be implemented for other shards- I like the idea of knowing what I'm going to get!

My rival...

FWIW I agree with the take that Odious Charges are just strong. While amusing, the prospect of Odium becoming invested in a planet and granting everyone 1/cycle kills is rather wild when you think about it. Making it sap a charge of investiture if one is available and only killing if it isn't sounds entirely reasonable to me but I don't mind much whatever Ash decides. Personally I think shard games are fun even though I also do not expect a huge degree of balance from them, but if you think you can improve the balance then more power to you 

You are still my rival however 

8 hours ago, Kasimir said:

Perhaps you simply don't care how many allies you kill. I do.

@DrakeMarshall

Wow, I feel called out 

7 hours ago, xinoehp512 said:

We should probably save debates on optimal strategy until the game actually starts though.

I agree, I wouldn't want to be giving my rival advice 

Edited May 24, 2023 by DrakeMarshall

[xinoehp512]

4 hours ago, DrakeMarshall said:

My rival...

You think that your powers of hilarious lulz and dubiously minted prequel meme NFTs will carry you to victory? Think again! The market's volatility will ultimately bring about your downfall! The 17th Shard Rebirth movement will inevitably triumph over the 18th Shard Memers!

8 hours ago, Ashbringer said:

And yup, that's the interaction that's making me wonder how balanced those two are 

It may be worth giving Hoid's Fuse ability the alternative capability of re-assembling a Shattered Shard. That way as long as Hoid is alive, there's always the possibility of AC achieving their unique wincon, which is symmetric with SoU.

[The Bookwyrm]

...I can't believe I'm doing this.

I will join.

I'm throwing myself in the deep end hard here, and I am going to need to study the rules hard, and I may request being replaced with a pinch hitter depending on how it goes...

And I haven't done SE for a while...

But school is done now. So what the heck.

[DrakeMarshall]

2 hours ago, xinoehp512 said:

You think that your powers of hilarious lulz and dubiously minted prequel meme NFTs will carry you to victory?

Yes! 

2 hours ago, xinoehp512 said:

Think again!

No! >:P

2 hours ago, The Bookwyrm said:

I'm throwing myself in the deep end hard here, and I am going to need to study the rules hard

If it makes you feel better than by all means do so (I've carefully studied the rules myself because that does make me feel better), but just to keep things in perspective, I'm pretty sure there are some people (who shan't be named >:P) who are playing this game without reading the rules at all, so like don't feel like you have to do this just to keep up or something. I am confident in asserting that literally nobody completely understands all of the potential rules interactions that could unfold in a game this complex, regardless of how much studying they have or haven't done, and personally I think that's part of the beauty of shard games!  Not knowing what the heck is going on 

good luck anyways 

[Mat]

He entered Silverlight quietly, slipping through the many sets of doors during the portion of the night where activity was at its lowest point. I suppose here 'night' is only a term, he thought. It was an illusion, just as the kind faces he passed once inside were illusions. They were few, and he didn't recognize any of them, thankfully. The chance of that was low after all these years, but considering who he expected to be here, it was more possible than it had been in a long, long time.

He wasn't quite sure what he was doing there. He'd been before, and always found it surprisingly distasteful. There was a sense of pride hanging in the air, a tangible status quo that seemed to be just out of reach. But he shrugged the feeling off, as he'd done during his previous visits, and focused his steps. No, he knew what he was doing there. An opportunity had been born, and for the first time since he'd lost the power of Ruin, he'd felt a desire to... go where it was. Not necessarily to reclaim the shard, as the reunion would be too bittersweet for his liking, but... well, quite simply, he found that he'd been around for too much of the cosmere's history to sit around as it came to its potential close.

And so, the man pressed onward, towards Silverlight's center.

Sir Arren Brockett had returned.

---

*   *   *

---

Okay okay okay I'm playing shhhh

I guess we can go with the continuity of AG5 leading to AG7, as that's where Brockett originated from. Or I can just copy paste him into whatever version of the cosmere this is. Which I'd be fine with, as I really liked how his arc ended and would be quite pleased with calling this a multiversal duplicate...

Ah, whatever. Doesn't matter. But the temptation of a game of this magnitude has officially become too strong to resist :P.

Edited May 25, 2023 by Matrim's Dice
centering stars

[Kasimir]

7 minutes ago, DrakeMarshall said:

I'm pretty sure there are some people (who shan't be named >:P) who are playing this game without reading the rules at all

Smh it's called a no spoilers run

#4

bright blades of deep green
like leaves on the vine we fall
so easily divided.

3 hours ago, xinoehp512 said:

You think that your powers of hilarious lulz and dubiously minted prequel meme NFTs will carry you to victory? Think again! The market's volatility will ultimately bring about your downfall! The 17th Shard Rebirth movement will inevitably triumph over the 18th Shard Memers!

At last Village green has become canon!

But don't forget this can be exchanged for steamy Kaladin/Moash as well as Shallan/Adolin/Kaladin!

Edited May 25, 2023 by Kasimir

[Ashbringer]

3 days left in signups, and we still need ~5 more players!

If we can’t reach that… not sure what I’ll do. Probably cobble together a ruleset still involving Shards but more on the scale of a standard game.

[The Paradoxical Phenomenon]

3 minutes ago, Ashbringer said:

3 days left in signups, and we still need ~5 more players!

If we can’t reach that… not sure what I’ll do. Probably cobble together a ruleset still involving Shards but more on the scale of a standard game.

Spoiler

 

[The Unknown Ajah]

I'll sign up a second time!

[The Paradoxical Phenomenon]

4 minutes ago, The Known Novel said:

I'll sign up a second time!

Ooh same 

[Kasimir]

Not to be a wet blanket to anyone who wants to sign up but I think it's worth people considering if you actually have the time or attention span to commit.

If you're having misgivings but sign up just to make numbers and then can't be active and inactive out, then it's just slapping a bandage on the wound. Ash is still effectively running a fifteen player game - it's just disguised by the appearance of having made the numeric limit, and then the inactivity is going to be seriously damaging since the game presumes twenty active players minimum for balance.

Edited May 27, 2023 by Kasimir

[The Paradoxical Phenomenon]

@Ashbringer I’m really sorry, but something came up and I’m going to have to pinch-hit. Preferably don’t put me in until the 7th or 8th. I’m sorry. I wish I could be a full player, but for the next 2 weeks Imma be as busy as heck

[Sart]

Oh right. Shard game. Yep, I'm in.

[STINK]

Why hello there, sign me up please would ya good sir, I may come back with RP details soon perhaps maybe if i feel so inclined

[Kasimir]

23 minutes ago, STINK said:

Why hello there, sign me up please would ya good sir, I may come back with RP details soon perhaps maybe if i feel so inclined

Spoiler

 

@DrakeMarshall:

#5

green all around me
for now the village still stands
vote, then, and be damned

[Elandera]

I'll sign up 

[Ashbringer]

Just about 2 days left in signups!

First of all, some rules updates:

Spoiler

• Odium's Charges of Investiture now reads "Target player loses one Charge of Investiture. If they had no Charges of Investiture, instead Kill target player."
  • For which Charge of Investiture is lost, Charges that are not being used that same turn are prioritized, then Charges that are being used but occur after Odium's Charge of Investiture in the OoA. Charges used the same turn that go before (or at the same time as) Odium's will not be lost and their action will still proceed, but if they were the only Charges the target had then Odium's Charge of Investiture then it will be a Kill action.
• Hoid's Fuse Ability can now Fuse any Shard, Splintered or unSplintered - any Splintered Shards added to a Fused Shard will not give their Shardic Ability to the Fused Shard, but they can still join a Fused Shard.
  • Odium's Shardic Ability behaves as normal with respect to Fused Shards.
• Prudence's Shardic Ability can now be used during the Day Turn like other PM creation abilities.
• Frost's Conversion Blocker ability can now target players on any Shardworld.
• Slivers now can only convert Charges of Investiture into their matching Shards', they cannot generate Charges if they have none.
• Whimsy's Shardic Ability can no longer detect Action Classes.
  • Whimsy's Shardic Ability can detect, randomly, on a random player for that turn: A random player they targeted, A random player in a PM with them, A random Shard they hold, or A random Charge of Investiture they hold.
• [APPROVAL PENDING] Braize's Shardworld Kill now requires 3 Charges of Investiture to use (to prevent a similar N1 kill swarm, and to match the nerf to Odium's Charges a bit more - although I do need mods to okay this, I think).

 

Also, we currently only have 17 players, which means I'd need 3 more to run this ruleset. I hope we get enough to run it, but in case we don't by the 30th, there's a few things that could happen.

I could extend signups for a few days to match when a few people would become available and/or give people more time to sign up, but this game may run long anyway and I don't know for how long people (including me) can plan out things.

Or, I could set up a simpler ruleset. The one I have in mind right now is, all players start out with a Shard + Hoid (or are Khriss/Frost as necessary), some changes to the Shardics, and it's Autonomy and Hoid together as the Elims vs the rest of the Shards as a more standard conversion game. That cuts out... a lot, but it's probably better than running this level of a game with barely more players than Shards.

[The Unknown Ajah]

I vote for an extension before anything gets reduced, but also do whatever you feel is best.

[Mat]

Would also very much like to play the full ruleset if possible

[Ashbringer]

Yeah, me too 

I should be able to extend things, just need to figure out if I'm going to run into scheduling issues and/or how much extending things would actually help.

[|TJ|]

You know, Stick and Alpha could probably sign up as one slot. Stick could play till her game starts and then Alpha could sub in. Just an idea

[Kasimir]

5 hours ago, |TJ| said:

You know, Stick and Alpha could probably sign up as one slot. Stick could play till her game starts and then Alpha could sub in. Just an idea

You say this but don't tag them, tsk  

I'm indifferent either way: feels like the main ? is Striker but he's mentioned it's a weeks issue here. Araris has exams. El's in Ireland. Maybe try asking friends/old-timers?

Edited May 29, 2023 by Kasimir

[The Paradoxical Phenomenon]

5 hours ago, |TJ| said:

You know, Stick and Alpha could probably sign up as one slot. Stick could play till her game starts and then Alpha could sub in. Just an idea

 

5 hours ago, |TJ| said:

You know, Stick and Alpha could probably sign up as one slot. Stick could play till her game starts and then Alpha could sub in. Just an idea

@_Stick_ this could work for me