Twinborn Combos

[Pathfinder]

K. Is it a problem that I've only read the first four books? I don't want any spoilers that are TOO big.

It doesn't tell you anything about the story. I would reassure you more, but I have a feeling while doing so, I would spoil more lol. So basically, just read the latest books. They are awesome lol. 

[IndigoAjah]

The body not being broken at 98F in a firesoul is a necessary secondary power- in order to function at a level that makes the power in anyway useful, you have to assume that their body can work above that temperature and I thought it was confirmed that it did?

Different temperatures in different parts of the body generally relies on the variable surface area (non-existent in the internal organs), blood flow, make up of blood vasculature, a small amount of highly regulated global metabolism, different amounts of insulation from various layers etc. With very large temperatures, it would be very hard to use these mechanisms to make one part of the body warmer than others and keep them that way, except that as always the more internal parts will be somewhat warmer than the external parts and extremities cooler again.

My physics is all a-level and then personal interest knowledge. However, I am a clinical doctor, so my biology may be of help! Basically though, you have to assume that Feruchemy breaks the rules a bit to work at all, and the 98F (which isn't really the figure things stop working at all, you can function fine with that core temperature and a fair bit higher) is one of these rules that Feruchemy would realistically break in some way, for Brass to really be of any use

[The_Dark_Fungi]

The body not being broken at 98F in a firesoul is a necessary secondary power- in order to function at a level that makes the power in anyway useful, you have to assume that their body can work above that temperature and I thought it was confirmed that it did?

Oh wow. Excellent point! It's like Atium how increases brainpower to deal with the shadows or how Feruchemical iron increases strength. So... Yeah! Good observation. Although, you still wouldn't QUITE be Obliteration. The fire-proof side effect would only last for as long as you used the brass. If you melted the entire city and ran out of heat, you would burn. Still a good power though.

[Oversleep]

The body not being broken at 98F in a firesoul is a necessary secondary power- in order to function at a level that makes the power in anyway useful, you have to assume that their body can work above that temperature and I thought it was confirmed that it did?

Well, storing too much strength may kill you because your heart would become too weak to pump blood. I assume that if you store too much heat you go into hypothermia.

While we have nothing on the adverse effects of overtapping, my personal headcannon is that you can't heat yourself above 41*C because proteins start to curdle. Brass is very good for survival, but not necessarily for combat. I know you all want to throw fireballs, but I don't think that's possible.

[Pathfinder]

The body not being broken at 98F in a firesoul is a necessary secondary power- in order to function at a level that makes the power in anyway useful, you have to assume that their body can work above that temperature and I thought it was confirmed that it did?

Different temperatures in different parts of the body generally relies on the variable surface area (non-existent in the internal organs), blood flow, make up of blood vasculature, a small amount of highly regulated global metabolism, different amounts of insulation from various layers etc. With very large temperatures, it would be very hard to use these mechanisms to make one part of the body warmer than others and keep them that way, except that as always the more internal parts will be somewhat warmer than the external parts and extremities cooler again.

My physics is all a-level and then personal interest knowledge. However, I am a clinical doctor, so my biology may be of help! Basically though, you have to assume that Feruchemy breaks the rules a bit to work at all, and the 98F (which isn't really the figure things stop working at all, you can function fine with that core temperature and a fair bit higher) is one of these rules that Feruchemy would realistically break in some way, for Brass to really be of any use

If I recall correctly the whole reason for all of this, is that WoB stated that a firesoul is only immune to their own body heat increase, not external. That is the secondary boon for being a firesoul.

 

edit: I suck at searching for WoB, but what is on the coppermind I believe references it. See below:

 

A brass Ferring is known as a Firesoul. Brass is used to store warmth. While filling a brassmind, a Feruchemist will be cool.^[1] A Brass Ferring's body, not unlike an Iron Ferring's, is able to resist the higher temperatures of their Feruchemy, but is not immune to intense heat in general. ^[3] By cooling the body by filling a brassmind, however, one could resist higher temperatures - heat would flow to the colder region that is your body, allowing one to become immune to fire and other sources of intense heat by carefully regulating the rate at which one filled their metalmind

Edited April 8, 2016 by Pathfinder

[IndigoAjah]

I'm not sure it could realistically be used for this survival of others then- for firesouls to radiate heat to help

other normal Scadrians in the cold, 42 degrees C looks too low to really have any effect on a group of people. I think it's more logical to assume their biology is broken and their enzymes can work at any temperature, presumably having to make it so that the heat inside them doesn't really exist for them or something, because they are already breaking science just having the magic, rather than external physics being broken. Maybe we have just completely misunderstood how the Scadrians survived though

[natc]

Oh wow. Excellent point! It's like Atium how increases brainpower to deal with the shadows or how Feruchemical iron increases strength. So... Yeah! Good observation. Although, you still wouldn't QUITE be Obliteration. The fire-proof side effect would only last for as long as you used the brass. If you melted the entire city and ran out of heat, you would burn. Still a good power though.

Feruchemical iron technically doesn't affect strength in general, it just somehow lets you move normally while heavier. Somehow. Handwavium. All feruchemy has that required secondary power to stop your own powers from killing you from the inside, but since feruchemy can only affect your own person it doesn't always help . . .

Atium is a different issue entirely.

[IndigoAjah]

Ah, the way Brandon explains what is happening there is the opposite to the explanation he gives a sentence before

His explanation would NOT make them immune to harm from fire or even really any external temperature and doesn't really make much sense. Or it does make sense but they are essentially useless

Edited April 8, 2016 by IndigoAjah

[natc]

Well, you CAN technically cool yourself to near-lethal extents and survive with the external heat that should be killing you. I guess?

The chemical combustion of actual fire can't really be stopped though of course.

[Pathfinder]

Feruchemical iron technically doesn't affect strength in general, it just somehow lets you move normally while heavier. Somehow. Handwavium. All feruchemy has that required secondary power to stop your own powers from killing you from the inside, but since feruchemy can only affect your own person it doesn't always help . . .

Atium is a different issue entirely.

I believe there was a thread that explained that instead of handwavium, the reason for the not crushing ones own body involves the higgs bosson I think?

Ah, the way Brandon explains what is happening there is the opposite to the explanation he gives a sentence before

His explanation would NOT make them immune to harm from fire or even really any external temperature and doesn't really make much sense. Or it does make sense but they are essentially useless

I took it to understand that by storing, and making yourself cooler, the heat travels to you, and then is transferred into the metal minds. Like a heat sink Edited April 8, 2016 by Pathfinder

[IndigoAjah]

Yeah but then the external heat can still harm you. And the metal minds would only really be useful if you stopped being able to thermoregulate. It wouldn't really be useful for other people, certainly

[natc]

But would the heat even be able to harm anything if it at no point makes your body exceed its functioning temperature range?

[IndigoAjah]

But would the heat even be able to harm anything if it at no point makes your body exceed its functioning temperature range?

Yes.

Most of the damage from burns is not due to damage by raising body temperature! It's direct damage. Light radiation. Oxidation.

[natc]

Well, like I said with the fire. That's definitely not going to be stopped. But that's fire. It's not like all external heat sources involve burning.

The heat itself won't kill you right?

[IndigoAjah]

Depending how instant the heat transfer is (does it go from immediate body contact to the Metalmind or does it have to be in contact with your body directly for a moment of time) there may or may not be radiation burning and severe skin damage. But it's really impossible to say

[The_Dark_Fungi]

My one post has spawned a full 2 1/2 pages of discussion. Success! XD

This has gone on for long enough, I think. So, if I may, I would like to shift the discussion to Windwhisperers. More specifically, the other senses. These are:

Pressure,

Itch, (I know, weird right?)

Temperature,

Pain,

Thirst,

Hunger,

Time,

Direction,

Muscle Tension,

Equilibrioception,

Proprioception,

Stretch Receptors,

Chemoreceptors,

Plus the standard five.

While some of these are totally useless for a Windwhisperer (Like pressure), some of these could have awesome effects, like direction and pain. So this sense would be incredibly useful because why? We all know a Tineye's weakness. A loud sound would render them stunned, unless they were a tin compounder. They could not only store their hearing, but also their pain. Same with light. They couldn't be removed that easily. Now unfortunately, you'd have to dedicate an entire bracelet (Does anyone know the proper term for a Feruchemical vessel? Please?), to pain, but the good thing is pain isn't entirely useless. Pain is an alarm to direct help to a wound, so if you just diluted it and then threw away the vessel (Mrg...),

then your wound would never heal. And it would also be like a Thug's weakness: burning pewter makes you ignore fatal injuries. So, after a fight you could apply slight amounts of pain to each injury to start healing them.

Now, to the next cool ability: touch. As seen in a The Hero of Ages, Spook used this amazingly. and he wasn't even a compounder. It would be almost as good as Atium. And, since we know pain and touch are separate, if you got hit you could remove the pain without losing your touch. (OMG!!! BAD PUN!!! XD)

Now for Temperature, Pain, Itch, Hunger, and Thirst. These are necessary for survival and removing them perminately would be bad. Remove temperature, and you could freeze or burn to death. Remove pain, and never heal from anything. Remove Hunger or Thirst, and die from starvation or dehydration. These are necessary. Although, you could remove them short term so that you wouldn't be distracted.

Any other useful senses?

[Pathfinder]

My one post has spawned a full 2 1/2 pages of discussion. Success! XD

This has gone on for long enough, I think. So, if I may, I would like to shift the discussion to Windwhisperers. More specifically, the other senses. These are:

Pressure,

Itch, (I know, weird right?)

Temperature,

Pain,

Thirst,

Hunger,

Time,

Direction,

Muscle Tension,

Equilibrioception,

Proprioception,

Stretch Receptors,

Chemoreceptors,

Plus the standard five.

While some of these are totally useless for a Windwhisperer (Like pressure), some of these could have awesome effects, like direction and pain. So this sense would be incredibly useful because why? We all know a Tineye's weakness. A loud sound would render them stunned, unless they were a tin compounder. They could not only store their hearing, but also their pain. Same with light. They couldn't be removed that easily. Now unfortunately, you'd have to dedicate an entire bracelet (Does anyone know the proper term for a Feruchemical vessel? Please?), to pain, but the good thing is pain isn't entirely useless. Pain is an alarm to direct help to a wound, so if you just diluted it and then threw away the vessel (Mrg...),

then your wound would never heal. And it would also be like a Thug's weakness: burning pewter makes you ignore fatal injuries. So, after a fight you could apply slight amounts of pain to each injury to start healing them.

Now, to the next cool ability: touch. As seen in a The Hero of Ages, Spook used this amazingly. and he wasn't even a compounder. It would be almost as good as Atium. And, since we know pain and touch are separate, if you got hit you could remove the pain without losing your touch. (OMG!!! BAD PUN!!! XD)

Now for Temperature, Pain, Itch, Hunger, and Thirst. These are necessary for survival and removing them perminately would be bad. Remove temperature, and you could freeze or burn to death. Remove pain, and never heal from anything. Remove Hunger or Thirst, and die from starvation or dehydration. These are necessary. Although, you could remove them short term so that you wouldn't be distracted.

Any other useful senses?

They are called metal minds. How would removing pain stop your body from healing naturally? Anesthesia removes pain, but the human body still heals. 

[The_Dark_Fungi]

They are called metal minds. How would removing pain stop your body from healing naturally? Anesthesia removes pain, but the human body still heals.

Thanks. And it turns out I misunderstood the use for pain, but it is still important in letting you know to stop whatever is hurting you. So, it still is useful, but not necessary. You're right.

[Pathfinder]

Thanks. And it turns out I misunderstood the use for pain, but it is still important in letting you know to stop whatever is hurting you. So, it still is useful, but not necessary. You're right.

Well a lot of these, assuming the work as theorized, could mimic allomantic pewter without having to actually use pewter. Endure pain, improved balance, endurance, and so on. Only downside is assuming you are a ferring, you wouldn't be able to heal all the damage you ignored lol. 

[The_Dark_Fungi]

Yes, but because the pain could be dilated, you could leave some pain receptors so that you could get help if you were hurt, instead of COMPLETELY ignoring it.

[Pathfinder]

Yes, but because the pain could be dilated, you could leave some pain receptors so that you could get help if you were hurt, instead of COMPLETELY ignoring it.

I am sorry. To clarify, when I was comparing it to pewter, it was in favor of your suggestion. That you could mimic pewter without actually having to rely on burning or tapping. Since you are storing instead of tapping or burning you would never have to worry about it suddenly running out. The only problem is as I said, regardless of how much pain you ignore, your body is still getting damaged and will need a way to heal from it, or you will die. 

[The_Dark_Fungi]

No, I'm sorry. I wasn't disagreeing with you, just pointing something out.

Now, HERE'S an interesting idea. We know that both Allomancy and Ferromancy are genetic, and we know that you can't have ONLY two or three metals (Why is that? THAT MAKES NO FREAKING SENSE!!! Sorry), BUT, it never says that about Ferrochemy, does it? What if you were a Whindwhisperer AND a Bloodmaker?

[Pathfinder]

No, I'm sorry. I wasn't disagreeing with you, just pointing something out.

Now, HERE'S an interesting idea. We know that both Allomancy and Ferromancy are genetic, and we know that you can't have ONLY two or three metals (Why is that? THAT MAKES NO FREAKING SENSE!!! Sorry), BUT, it never says that about Ferrochemy, does it? What if you were a Whindwhisperer AND a Bloodmaker?

Lol, I feel bad popping your bubbles. I only know these things from being on the boards for awhile, and please don't take these as me shutting you down. My only intention is to share what I have learned. So basically as you stated, with allomancers, there are either mistborn with all the powers or mistings with none of the powers. With feruchemy you were either born with all of them, or none of them. Once feruchemists started to interbreed with allomancers, the thing that stops mistings from having more than just one power, messed with the feruchemists. So now with feruchemy you either get all of them, or only one of them. And now like allomancy, getting all of them is very rare. So basically as of the AoL era you either get one misting power, or one ferring power, or your a twin born with one of each. 

 

edit: baring hemalurgy that is. then you could make whatever combination you want. 

Edited April 13, 2016 by Pathfinder

[The_Dark_Fungi]

It's fine. I'm now going to cry in a corner. XD

[natc]

Also, the name is feruchemy. You keep using that bizarre name that looks like a mashup of both.