Twinborn Combos

[Mailliw73]

A double iron combo would be the best demolitionist!

[Mailliw73]

An alumininum ferring stores identity, what would that do though? Help you remember yourself?

Edited December 13, 2012 by ElendVentureWilliam73

[Cheese Ninja]

An alumininum ferring stores identity, what would that do though? Help you remember yourself?

No, it's Identity in the Spiritual Realm. The Emperor's Soul has a magic system that directly affects Spiritual aspects. (Forging) If the Spiritual aspect is altered, it can cause changes in the Physical and Cognitive aspects as well. No idea what happens if it is Filled or Tapped though. There could be some neat interactions with Forging if the two magic systems ever met. I'm not sure if a being's Spiritual aspect is entirely equivalent to their soul, but it's probably pretty close.

Were there theories on here that if a Feruchemist stored all their Identity, they could use other people's metalminds? I think that would still require the ability to tap that particular attribute, so it would normally be useless.

[lDanielHolm]

Unless we meet a new full Feruchemist at some point. (We know that the villain in the first book of the modern trilogy is a Mistborn, so they at least come back in some form; I don't see why Feruchemists couldn't return too.)

Also, there's always Hemalurgy.

[Cheese Ninja]

Yeah, that's why I said "normally". The ability to use other's metalminds would have been more useful back when full Feruchemists were around, but now that Ferrings are the norm, it's (possibly) useless. It's actually kind of odd how few of the metals were in use in the thousands of years that full Feruchemists were around, since a lot of metals are a great deal more useful in combination with each other.

And there was always some small incidence of Mistings too, wasn't there? Is it ever addressed whether there were Mistings among the Terris? Or why the Terris in particular developed into Feruchemists? There were no full Mistborn until Rashek and his selected few, so no one besides Rashek could exploit those particular mechanics, but I have to wonder if there was ever a full Feruchemist + Misting in the ancient past of Scadrial.

Those questions aside, I hope the future trilogies shed some light on the more mysterious temporal abilities of Aluminum and Nicrosil Ferrings.

On the main topic of the thread, I think the most convenient combos are those allow for Compounding and overlap. That a Tin/Tin can both enhance any of his senses and Fill any of the other sense attributes to reduce sensory overload is incredibly helpful. Come to think of it, there was a character like that in the Syfy TV show Alphas, which was a fairly mediocre show, but does get the point across of what a lesser version of Tin/Tin could do at a crime scene.

And Pewter/Pewter is nearly as good.

At this point, I'm pretty sure that Rashek's mass Soothings and Riotings were possible by him tapping compounded Duraluminminds for spiritual connection at the same time as him using full Mistborn strength for the Rioting/Soothing. (I can't remember for sure if he knew about Duralumin, but I'm not sure if Aluminumminds are usable for this after reading The Emperor's Soul. Plus, it fits with the Feruchemical description of Duralumin)

[Kurkistan]

At this point, I'm pretty sure that Rashek's mass Soothings and Riotings were possible by him tapping compounded Duraluminminds for spiritual connection at the same time as him using full Mistborn strength for the Rioting/Soothing. (I can't remember for sure if he knew about Duralumin, but I'm not sure if Aluminumminds are usable for this after reading The Emperor's Soul. Plus, it fits with the Feruchemical description of Duralumin)

I've been assuming that Nicrosilminds (Investiture) can be used to boost Allomancy. I doubt that it's Duraluminum.

While perhaps Soothing/Rioting can be strengthened or weakened by Connection, recall that Connection's primary function is to increase empathy and positive feelings between the Ferring and those around him. So TLR would have loved every Skaa in that square, including those having their heads chopped off. And everyone in that square would have felt affection for TLR to some degree, not just emotionally crushed.

Edited December 16, 2012 by Kurkistan

[Cheese Ninja]

I've been assuming that Nicrosilminds (Investiture) can be used to boost Allomancy. I doubt that it's Duraluminum.

While perhaps Soothing/Rioting can be strengthened or weakened by Connection, recall that Connection's primary function is to increase empathy and positive feelings between the Ferring and those around him. So TLR would have loved every Skaa in that square, including those having their heads chopped off. And everyone in that square would have felt affection for TLR to some degree, not just emotionally crushed.

It's a little bit more vague than that.

Connecter Ferrings can store spiritual connection in a duralumin metalmind, reducing other people’s awareness and friendship with them during active storage, and can tap it at a later time in order to speedily form trust relationships with others.

I think it works in the same way as Wax's superstrong Push where he destroys the building that Steris had been held in at the end of Alloy of Law. He used up all the weight that was in his Ironminds to make the downward Push that much more effective.

Steris gasped, clinging to him. Wax drew every bit of weight he had left, draining his metalminds completely. That was hundreds upon hundreds of hours of weight, enough to make him crush paving stones if he tried to walk on them. In the strange way of Feruchemy, he didn’t grow more dense—bullets would still cut through him easily if they hit. But with this incredible conflux of weight, his ability to Push grew incredible.

It's also a fun scene because it's where Steris falls for him.

By tapping Connection from a Duraluminmind, I think there's a lot more "weight" behind a Soothing or Rioting. Especially if you're the object of people's attention at that moment, which would make sense if you're the God/Leader of an Empire appearing before a crowd. Whether it would work when people aren't aware of your presence, say, if you're just sitting around inside a building reading a book, I'm not so sure, and I can't remember the contexts under which Rashek uses his mass Soothing/Riotings.

[Kurkistan]

You may be drawing a false correlation here. If it were the case that Connection acted as "weight" for emotional Allomancy, then we might have seen some mention of this, in the original trilogy, such as "people you like are easier to Push/Pull" when Kelsier or Breeze was explaining it to Vin.

Beyond that, if you look at the RPG, it's quite clear that Connection increases affection between parties. So, for TLR to have meaningfully increased his emotional Allomancy through Connection, he would have had to been tapping enough Connection to feel that each of the random Skaa whose heads he was having chopped off were his closest friends; and our crew would have felt reciprocal affection.

EDIT: Just to reiterate, the "context" of TLR's mass soothing was a random execution of dozens of innocents.

Edited December 17, 2012 by Kurkistan

[lDanielHolm]

Yeah, I think you are just overthinking it. Rashek was a Lerasium Mistborn, with a thousand years to polish his skills. Elend could get control over 25,000 koloss at once with a Duralumin-fueled Riot (or was it a Soothing?). I imagine Rashek was that much stronger, especially since he was probably a Savant. Even without Duralumin, I don't see Rashek having trouble affecting the thousands that came to view his executions.

[Voidus]

It also wouldn't explain TLR's strength in the other metals if it was just Soothing and Rioting increased by Connection, his Iron and Steel were monumentally more powerful than anything we've seen out of anyone else. Some of that could just be from tapping weight but that doesn't explain affecting metals inside someones body or the tiny amounts even in the glass nearby. I've got to go with Kurkistan on Nicrosil being involved in some way.

[Trickonometry]

I mentioned this in the thread I started earlier today, but I thought it might add well to this thread:

Cadmium Mistings are ideal for Spaceship flight. Instead of necessarily needing a faster-than-light ship, a Cadmium Misting with enough food and Cadmium could theoretically travel huge amounts of space while only having to live a short amount of time. What might this mean as far as Twinborn combinations?

[Observer]

It also wouldn't explain TLR's strength in the other metals if it was just Soothing and Rioting increased by Connection, his Iron and Steel were monumentally more powerful than anything we've seen out of anyone else. Some of that could just be from tapping weight but that doesn't explain affecting metals inside someones body or the tiny amounts even in the glass nearby. I've got to go with Kurkistan on Nicrosil being involved in some way.

Or we could go even simpler and just say that after 1,000 years TLR became an everything-savant and/or helped himself to more than one chunk of Lerasium and/or became more powerful from using the well. Nicrosil doesn't even need to play a part.

Wierd and stupid thought: If you used years worth of connection and then tapped some other metalmind, could you make yourself so connected to others that your magic sees you as the same being and works for all of you?

[Valyant]

A tin compounder may be able to hear radio waves!

A Lurcher(pulls metals)-Skimmer (stores weight) could have his own gravitational pull while compounding Iron.

[Voidus]

Or we could go even simpler and just say that after 1,000 years TLR became an everything-savant and/or helped himself to more than one chunk of Lerasium and/or became more powerful from using the well. Nicrosil doesn't even need to play a part.

No one else came even close to TLR strength, despite being Savants, although Spook probably came close with his Tin, the Well didn't make Vin any stronger so he'd need to actively use it's power to do that which seems unlikely given he only had a limited amount of time to use it and so much to do.

[Millennium]

Or we could go even simpler and just say that after 1,000 years TLR became an everything-savant and/or helped himself to more than one chunk of Lerasium and/or became more powerful from using the well. Nicrosil doesn't even need to play a part.

I thought Brandon said that Lerasium did something different if you were already able to burn metals. Admittedly, the RPG says something else: it says that Lerasium can turn Mistings into Mistborn, or (slowly) increase a Mistborn's power, but at the same time, it doesn't mention anything like the "side effect" Brandon spoke of.

Wierd and stupid thought: If you used years worth of connection and then tapped some other metalmind, could you make yourself so connected to others that your magic sees you as the same being and works for all of you?

I don't think that would work by itself, because there's a metaphysical concept of Identity that can be stored and tapped using a different sort of metalmind. Because of that, increasing your Connection shouldn't affect your Identity.

But the reverse should also hold: storing your Identity shouldn't affect your Connection. So if you were to use Aluminum and Duralumin together, to send your Identity through the floor and your Connection through the roof, they shouldn't interfere with one another. That might work to achieve the sort of effect you're talking about, except that instead of everyone seeming to be the same being, you would seem to be all of them at once.

[Dysphoric Kitten]

Back in the beginning of the thread some people mentioned tLR and copper compounding. I want to note that I heard a great theory which I do not know whether if someone (Eric?) ever did ask Brandon about, nor if it was otherwise confirmed or denie.

According to it, tLR, being Kwaan's nephew, could have inherited the trait or otherwise been trained by Kwaan to have it.

[Edgedancer]

* Using a Brassmind to store up heat would be really nice in real life, but doesn't really scream with larger implications. Still, if the heat can be brought back selectively to the specific parts of the body they were stored from (which does not seem impossible to me, since Copperminds store specific memories, not the general quality of being able to remember things), then a Thug with that power has a couple of nasty options. They might, for example, start burning Pewter, then stick their hand in a fire, and store the heat before it can hurt them badly. Later, in a fight (or while working as a blacksmith), they could burn Pewter again, and tap the Brassmind for their hand being in the middle of a fire, causing a burst of intense heat (they would only have to endure it for an instant, while protected by Pewter, since they could then switch to filling the Metalmind before any burn damage became too severe) around their hand, which might wreak havoc on a foe.

 

This made me realize something fritening. Feruchemy protects ones body, so a Brass-ferring coud literally just freeze things by touching them and becoming a heatsink. Admidetly such an extrem cold woud most likly feel so painfull that they go into shock/fall unconsious but by then the damage is done and the ocean frozen, the tidel wave stopped or the enemy turned into a popsicle.

[Kurkistan]

Not necessarily. It's questionable how much heat you can store at a time with Feruchemical brass, but even the max would result in the ferring just being at 0 Kelvin. He stores his own heat, not that of his surroundings.

[PorridgeBrick]

Not necessarily. It's questionable how much heat you can store at a time with Feruchemical brass, but even the max would result in the ferring just being at 0 Kelvin. He stores his own heat, not that of his surroundings.

And 0 Kelvin would definitely freeze your surroundings. Of course, you'd probably die unless there was some way of only storing tapping specific body parts or you were compounding gold, but it's still technically possible if you can store that much. Heck, if there was some way of sustaining that level of cold, you could do a ton of really weird stuff, since at that temperature quantum effects start coming into play at a visible scale, like superconductivity, superfluidity, etc. You could even levitate pieces of metal via quantum locking.

[Kurkistan]

I'm not sure physics works that way. Is the introduction of a human-sized heatsink at absolute 0 for an indeterminate amount of time really enough to do catastrophe-level damage?

[Edgedancer]

I'm not sure physics works that way. Is the introduction of a human-sized heatsink at absolute 0 for an indeterminate amount of time really enough to do catastrophe-level damage?

 

Sadly I´m not an expert on the topic so I´m not even gonna touch on the quantum effects but from what I know simple contact with liquid nitrogen (77 K/−196 °C) can cause grave damage, so freezing a tidel wave may be overdoing it but freezings someones head? Shoud be totally possible.

[PorridgeBrick]

Yeah, the tidal waves and ocean freezing would likely take too long to be feasible. But given enough time at absolute zero, you could freeze basically anything except for the few substances like helium that remain liquid even at absolute zero. A touch would kill. I only see this happening however on someone like TLR, where you can flare Allomantic pewter and compound Feruchemical gold at the same time as you store.

[Oudeis]

Keep in mind there are limits to how much brassminds can store. If you're at 0K, anything even slightly mobile would be filled in seconds, at the most. You'd have to be touching something the size of a bridge, made out of a single piece of brass.

[Dysphoric Kitten]

I have a better use for brass. No time, so I will edit this later to say it.

[Edgedancer]

Keep in mind there are limits to how much brassminds can store. If you're at 0K, anything even slightly mobile would be filled in seconds, at the most. You'd have to be touching something the size of a bridge, made out of a single piece of brass.

 

And now you have created the idea foor Brassjagernauts. Give someone somekind of mobile Brass tank that is constructed so the ferring can touch stuff and close those openings when not needed and you have a walking cryokit.

 

Also does the temperature of the brassmind change as well? If so the ferring dosen´t even have to touch someone.