Twinborn Combos

[Voidus]

Yeah, also I just had the obvious thought of any well connected crimial organization would give it a go. It has been stated that you don't need to be killed but I doubt anyone would volunteer to have a piece of their soul ripped out, even if it was non-lethal. Maybe for people on their deathbed but I think it would be too socially unaccepted. I'm actually more interested to see if we get any more of the warping effects in future books, new races created and that sort of thing.

[Aeshdan]

Also, Hemalurgy might be legally and morally used if you are going to kill the person anyway (execute a criminal misting with Hemalurgy, get a spike that can help some worthy person).

[Voidus]

Yeah, that could work! I can definitely see that happening as a method of execution for mistings/ferrings. I'm sure there would be enough to generate quite a few as well, considering the population size and that they have a SWAT team solely for allomancers.

[Kurkistan]

Also, Hemalurgy might be legally and morally used if you are going to kill the person anyway (execute a criminal misting with Hemalurgy, get a spike that can help some worthy person).

Good point. Even leaving aside the question of the morality of capital punishment, though, worst-case scenarios could end up in a Known Space situation where the government decides that tax evasion is a capital offense so that it can have more hemalurgic supersoldiers. Brandon tends to be a bit more optimistic about human nature than that, but it's a thought.

Edited March 24, 2012 by Kurkistan

[Voidus]

Well I'm sure there'll always be a blackmarket for them if all else fails.

[Aeshdan]

Good point. Even leaving aside the question of the morality of capital punishment, though, worst-case scenarios could end up in a Known Space situation where the government decides that tax evasion is a capital offense so that it can have more hemalurgic supersoldiers. Brandon tends to be a bit more optimistic about human nature than that, but it's a thought.

Perfectly true, but the government would then forfeit morality on that issue, just like TLR.

[Silvers]

I don't think it would be appropriate for hemalurgy to be re-discovered. I think it will be introduced more by accident then intentions. Like spook with his pewter. Or perhaps some crazy scientist discovers it and does experiments with it. I would not like it if mistborn compounders could be made in bulk. If one bad guy is made like that kills the hemalurgist who made him that would be fine.... He could always be taken out by a coinshot with nicroburst.

In fact that would make a great side plot for book two to distract from the main theme. Perhaps wax will be joined by a nicrosil twinborn. Perhaps nicrosil misting + Duralumin ferring.

[Silvers]

Going along with the Hemalurgy accident theory, I think there could be some very interesting combinations.

Pewter/pewter + gold would be one of the more powerful combinations. However looking at it from the standpoint of creating something interesting.... it just isn't

I'm thinking of Mat from WoT series... Chromium compounding For massive luck. He would also gain the ability to remove metals of anyone he touched, an easy thing to do when incredibly lucky.

He is now Over Powered like Chuck Norris's grandmother so you would have to be very careful on which hemalurgic ability you want to give him by "accident"

The most interesting thing I can think of is Duralimun allomancy. Surrounded by mistings, even his luck cannot overcome he unleashes duralumin fueled chromium burst removing all metals from everyone within a moderate range. A side effect is an insane burst of luck from compounded chromium being fueled by duralimun. All enemy guns jam at once.... Seriously powerful yet appropriately limited ability.

[Voidus]

Actually I was thinking that a double chromium would be best paired with steel feruchemy, lets you zip around to touch everyone pretty much instantly and then yeah in the middle of a fight tapping just a bit of steel with massive amouts of luck. And then a plane falls from the sky killing all your enemies leaving you completely unharmed

[Silvers]

Actually I was thinking that a double chromium would be best paired with steel feruchemy, lets you zip around to touch everyone pretty much instantly and then yeah in the middle of a fight tapping just a bit of steel with massive amouts of luck. And then a plane falls from the sky killing all your enemies leaving you completely unharmed

Chromium + steel Feruchemy would be awesome. You have to realize this is old western technology we're dealing with, no planes falling from the sky, and the % of allomancers are fairly small guns are the biggest threat.

Really I would just like to see any feruchemical compounding enhanced by duralimun hemalurgy. Imagine how much power one would obtain for a brief moment.

Double zinc would give one access to an unlimited supply of enhanced mental speed (intelect) Just imagine what you could accomplish with a duralumin burst of compounded intelect. an IQ of like 1,000 for a few moments, you could solve just about any problem instantly.

[Voidus]

Well, Zinc actually just makes you work things out faster, not better so it would just feel like you have hours to think out a problem instead of seconds, the world would move as though in slow motion. Also why would you need Duralumin? Feruchemy can compound to any level it wants anyway so Duralumin would be kinda useless...

Edit: And the next trilogy is set in modern era so planes can still happen XD

Edited March 25, 2012 by Voidus

[Silvers]

Well, Zinc actually just makes you work things out faster, not better so it would just feel like you have hours to think out a problem instead of seconds, the world would move as though in slow motion. Also why would you need Duralumin? Feruchemy can compound to any level it wants anyway so Duralumin would be kinda useless...

Edit: And the next trilogy is set in modern era so planes can still happen XD

Compounding is not limitless. Evidence of this is when Wayne goes to heal, if he heals slowly he can draw very effectively from his metal, if he draws quickly he can heal incredibly fast however it is "wasteful' to do so.

Burning metalminds with allomancy gives you much more of an attribute than you put into it however you can only burn metals so fast. Duralumin allows you to burn through an entire metalmind and get several times the power out of it in an instant.

If one were to try to draw out an entire metalmind using feruchemy you will only get what you put into it, and it would be wasteful to draw it all in an instant.

Edited March 25, 2012 by Silvers

[Voidus]

Compounding is not limitless. Evidence of this is when Wayne goes to heal, if he heals slowly he can draw very effectively from his metal, if he draws quickly he can heal incredibly fast however it is "wasteful' to do so.

Burning metalminds with allomancy gives you much more of an attribute than you put into it however you can only burn metals so fast. Duralumin allows you to burn through an entire metalmind and get several times the power out of it in an instant.

If one were to try to draw out an entire metalmind using feruchemy you will only get what you put into it, and it would be wasteful to draw it all in an instant.

But if you burn a metalmind and then store it in another metalmind you have exactly as much power as if you had just used it as it burned. Also Wayne wasn't a compounder, he had limited amounts of health so he had to be conservative, Miles by contrast was extremely wasteful with his health, tapping it at extremely high rates constantly. All duralumin would do is give you about 5 seconds worth of the attribute at an unalterably high level, possibly useful in some circumstances but it would be much easier to just have it stored in a metalmind, that way you can draw exactly as much as you want, if the rarity of a metal was an issue then you MIGHT have a point as you would need slightly more, but the only metal that that would really be necessary for is atium and I don't think you want to duralumin burn feruchemical atium.

[Zaropti]

By reading the law of alloy I would think Spook was the last mistborn alive, seems to me Harmony removed that possibility to be born one alone without any terrimen to be born a full Feruchemists also to ever prevent another TLR from ever being born. Thoughts on this?

[Zaropti]

But if you burn a metalmind and then store it in another metalmind you have exactly as much power as if you had just used it as it burned. Also Wayne wasn't a compounder, he had limited amounts of health so he had to be conservative, Miles by contrast was extremely wasteful with his health, tapping it at extremely high rates constantly. All duralumin would do is give you about 5 seconds worth of the attribute at an unalterably high level, possibly useful in some circumstances but it would be much easier to just have it stored in a metalmind, that way you can draw exactly as much as you want, if the rarity of a metal was an issue then you MIGHT have a point as you would need slightly more, but the only metal that that would really be necessary for is atium and I don't think you want to duralumin burn feruchemical atium.

Atium was part of Rune's body and Rune is dead so I honestly don't think anymore is left in the world. Also as a mistling Duralumn is totally worthless since it only effects another metal you can burn.

[Windrunner]

By reading the law of alloy I would think Spook was the last mistborn alive, seems to me Harmony removed that possibility to be born one alone without any terrimen to be born a full Feruchemists also to ever prevent another TLR from ever being born. Thoughts on this?

Hmm, did you get the impression from the term the Lord Mistborn? He certainly was one of the last, but we don't know who all of the Originators so there could be others. I don't believe Harmony removed the possibility of becoming a Mistborn, the Allomancy has become diluted in the centuries, so there are no mistborn, but many more, less powerful mistings. The same goes for Feruchemists and Ferrings. Here are some relevant quotes:

CHAOS

Since the dawn of Scadrial, why was Feruchemy isolated in a single distinct population in the world, namely the Terrismen? Allomancy, while rare within the population of Scadrial, at least was not isolated to one population, it was spread evenly, it seems. What is special about the Terrismen that only they get the power of Feruchemy? Does it have something to do with the previous Ascensions before Rashek, with the guardian keeping the power for a time?

BRANDON SANDERSON

It's all in the spiritual DNA, which is passed on like normal DNA. However, they are a separate people. They've kept themselves isolated, similar to the jews in our world. When I asked he said there have been some Feruchemical-mistings in the past, but they are very rare.

Source

WETLANDERNW

Why do the Twinborn in Alloy of Law have only one feruchemical power, when all previous feruchemists, in spite of breeding programs, could use all the metals? (from travyl) Or were Ferrings always part of the system and we just didn’t meet them in Mistborn? (my addition)

BRANDON SANDERSON

The Ferrings are a new development since Mistborn, as the Feruchemists have been interbreeding with the Allomancers. Basically, the Allomancy genes interfere with the Feruchemistry genes, breaking it down and creating the limitations we see in Alloy of Law. (His response to this was really fun—he found it a very perceptive question, and enjoyed talking about it. I wish I'd had my recorder handy so I could give you the full transcript instead of the boiled-down version.)

Source

Has anyone ever seen that last quote before? I've never heard that Allomancy genes messed with Feruchemy, but it's from a verbatim interview so there could have been a mistake.

[Kurkistan]

Has anyone ever seen that last quote before? I've never heard that Allomancy genes messed with Feruchemy, but it's from a verbatim interview so there could have been a mistake.

I hadn't seen that second quote before. Interesting. It was my impression that Harmony just messed with Feruchemy on purpose. That quote does call TLR's breeding policy into question, since it means that no one except a Lerasium Mistborn could ever be a Mistborn/Full Feruchemist simultaneously. We could get a few compounding Twinborns to call the source of TLR's power into question, but nothing he couldn't squash like a bug.

Edited March 28, 2012 by Kurkistan

[Windrunner]

I hadn't seen that second quote before. Interesting. It was my impression that Harmony just messed with Feruchemy on purpose. That quote does call TLR's breeding policy into question, since it means that no one except a Lerasium Mistborn could ever be a Mistborn/Full Feruchemist simultaneously. We could get a few compounding Twinborns to call the source of TLR's power into question, but nothing he couldn't squash like a bug.

Maybe it just meant that occasionally Allomancy genes would mutate with Feruchemy genes in such a way that only Ferrings could be produced, but other times, said mutations wouldn't occur, so a full Mistborn Feruchemist would be produced? It could also be that if you're a misting, you don't have enough Preservation in you to be a full Feruchemist, so if you have the Feruchemical sDNA you must be a Ferring. If that's the case, since there were no Mistborn there could be no full Feruchemist Mistborns. We've never had any indication on what mixture of Ruin to Preservation creates a Feruchemist.

But Harmony didn't mess with Feruchemy. The Terris population was always very closely related, so Feruchemical genes were usually pretty concentrated within them, either you had it all or nothing. However, two complete die-offs of every living Feruchemist (Rashek's Ascension and the Battle of Tathingdwen) followed by three hundred years of Terris people beggining to mix with the other populations has now caused it to be more likely that you'll end up a Ferring then a full Feruchemist. To the best of my knowledge Harmony wasn't involved at all in that process. Unless you have seen a quote that proves otherwise?

[Kurkistan]

Maybe it just meant that occasionally Allomancy genes would mutate with Feruchemy genes in such a way that only Ferrings could be produced, but other times, said mutations wouldn't occur, so a full Mistborn Feruchemist would be produced? It could also be that if you're a misting, you don't have enough Preservation in you to be a full Feruchemist, so if you have the Feruchemical sDNA you must be a Ferring. If that's the case, since there were no Mistborn there could be no full Feruchemist Mistborns. We've never had any indication on what mixture of Ruin to Preservation creates a Feruchemist.

But Harmony didn't mess with Feruchemy. The Terris population was always very closely related, so Feruchemical genes were usually pretty concentrated within them, either you had it all or nothing. However, two complete die-offs of every living Feruchemist (Rashek's Ascension and the Battle of Tathingdwen) followed by three hundred years of Terris people beggining to mix with the other populations has now caused it to be more likely that you'll end up a Ferring then a full Feruchemist. To the best of my knowledge Harmony wasn't involved at all in that process. Unless you have seen a quote that proves otherwise?

First Paragraph: I suppose that could explain it.

Second: I can't find it, but I recall Brandon saying something to the effect that Harmony deliberately stopped Mistborn from being, well, born, because they are too powerful. I think I just automatically extended that to Feruchemists as well

I could very well be mistaken on both counts, so I'll accept the sDNA interference theory as the answer instead (not to mention the fact that, since Brandon is the one who said it, it's canon).

[Voidus]

Still not sure how I feel about that as an explanation, it certainly makes sense but it doesn't explain why there are no feruchemists by itself, I'm sure that some of the terrispeople would have kept on interbreeding so we should have the occasional (albeit very rare) full feruchemist. I suspect that the sDNA for feruchemy was so weak now that it could only produce ferrings, and so actually the interbreeding with allomancers was a critical necessity as it mutated it enough for the sDNA to be able to manifest strongly as one power instead of not at all as 16. Hope that made sense to everyone.

[Aradel]

First, I wonder why the Terris, as a people, are so different from the rest of Scadrial. If their SDNA is so different, they can't have the same origins as other Scadrians.

Second, if the people across the ocean are just as different, would they use allomancy or feruchemy differently as well?

Last, I remember a topic not too long ago where we talked about how much effect a world has on the magic system, as opposed to the Shard. That quote clearly states that the people using the magic also have a distinct effect on how it works.

[Voidus]

Second, if the people across the ocean are just as different, would they use allomancy or feruchemy differently as well?

I think that they've basically got the equivalent of allomancy before Lerasium, not sure about feruchemy but I would assume that some have it.

I've always wondered that about the Terris as well, I guess it could just be a racial thing, their pre-existing sDNA was more compatible with feruchemy while other nations were more compatible with allomancy. That's about all I can come up with

[Zaropti]

How bout if you was a freak of birth in misting style and had 2 misting powers rather then one as a twinborn, what two would you use? be the awesome warrior like spook when he had the sword tip in him using tin and pewter or like to be push and pull together with iron and steal or mess with anybody you would want to mentally with brass and zinc?

[Voidus]

You can't have only two allomantic powers by birth, it would have to be from hemalurgy. I'd still rather be a twinborn but if I had to then I suppose I'd go with a Bendalloy and pewter combo

[Zaropti]

I know, just asking what if. Or if not two allomantic powers what two Feruchemical would you pick?

I think Pewter/steel would be my pick for two allomantics, while for twinborn I would love to go pewter/bendalloy or even bendalloy/pewter, and if i was a twin Feruchemical I would so pick steel/zinc the physical and mental speed to do bout anything.