Twinborn Combos

[Oversleep]

Nicrosil does store Investiture...

Innate Investiture. Which makes up your soul and that's how your abilities are coded in you.

[shadowwisp]

12 minutes ago, Ookla the Sunrise Watcher said:

Nicrosil does store Investiture...

Innate Investiture. Which makes up your soul and that's how your abilities are coded in you.

To clarify, technically all feruchemical abilities store Investiture. Nicrosil just stores your current ability to use Investiture. 

 

[Oversleep]

1 minute ago, shadowwisp said:

To clarify, technically all feruchemical abilities store Investiture. Nicrosil just stores your current ability to use Investiture.

Nope. The feruchemical atributes are stored as Investiture (metalminds are Invested) but they do not all store Investiture.

[shadowwisp]

4 hours ago, Ookla the Sunrise Watcher said:

Nope. The feruchemical atributes are stored as Investiture (metalminds are Invested) but they do not all store Investiture.

Okay, you lost me there. Do you mind explaining a bit? Thanks!

 

[Zincmind]

you would have to find a balance where you are heavy enough to move the bubble, but light enough you can still move.

[Spoolofwhool]

2 hours ago, shadowwisp said:

Okay, you lost me there. Do you mind explaining a bit? Thanks!

Most feruchemical traits (physical strength, physical speed, mental speed, warmth, breath, alertness, wakefulness, etc) are not investiture. However, when you create a metalmind by storing those elements, the metalmind becomes charged with investiture. All feruchemical abilities result in stored investiture, in the sense of the metalmind, but you not all feruchemical abilities are storing investiture, in the sense of the attributes. 

[Inquisitor #5]

On 2016-12-06 at 6:06 PM, Ookla the Sunrise Watcher said:

Nicrosil does store Investiture...

Innate Investiture. Which makes up your soul and that's how your abilities are coded in you.

 

On 2016-12-06 at 6:26 PM, shadowwisp said:

To clarify, technically all feruchemical abilities store Investiture. Nicrosil just stores your current ability to use Investiture. 

 

 

On 2016-12-06 at 6:28 PM, Ookla the Sunrise Watcher said:

Nope. The feruchemical atributes are stored as Investiture (metalminds are Invested) but they do not all store Investiture.

 

On 2016-12-06 at 11:15 PM, shadowwisp said:

Okay, you lost me there. Do you mind explaining a bit? Thanks!

 

This exchange seems to be born out of a conflict between how Nicrosil Feruchemy is presented in the books versus in the Adventure Game. In the books nicrosil stores, hmm, the Spiritual blueprint for your abilities, so to say. So you can store (presumably) any kind of Investiture you are capable of using. A Thug could store the ability to burn pewter, for instance. I the Adventure Game Investiture is treated as "Generic Feruchemical Energy" that can be used in various ways.

Also, I agree with Ookla that while all Feruchemical stores are in the form of Investiture, not all stores store Investiture.

Also also, feel free to correct me if I misunderstood either of you.

¤_¤

[shadowwisp]

11 hours ago, Inquisitor #5 said:

This exchange seems to be born out of a conflict between how Nicrosil Feruchemy is presented in the books versus in the Adventure Game. In the books nicrosil stores, hmm, the Spiritual blueprint for your abilities, so to say. So you can store (presumably) any kind of Investiture you are capable of using. A Thug could store the ability to burn pewter, for instance. I the Adventure Game Investiture is treated as "Generic Feruchemical Energy" that can be used in various ways.

Also, I agree with Ookla that while all Feruchemical stores are in the form of Investiture, not all stores store Investiture.

Also also, feel free to correct me if I misunderstood either of you.

¤_¤

 

On 12/6/2016 at 8:18 PM, Spoolofwhool said:

Most feruchemical traits (physical strength, physical speed, mental speed, warmth, breath, alertness, wakefulness, etc) are not investiture. However, when you create a metalmind by storing those elements, the metalmind becomes charged with investiture. All feruchemical abilities result in stored investiture, in the sense of the metalmind, but you not all feruchemical abilities are storing investiture, in the sense of the attributes. 

Hmmm, maybe its my definition of investiture that is incorrect. Let me try explaining things in how I see it and let me know if I am wrong. Although the more I think about it, the more my view seems correct. Unless I am misunderstanding you guys and we are all saying the same thing hahaha. 

 

In very rough terms, an analog of investiture is energy. In the sense that like energy, there are multiple forms of investiture, they can be converted into different forms of each other, and be used to power things/abilities. You could replace the word "investiture" with "energy" in the following paragraphs and it would still make sense: 

So when a pewter feruchemist stores his strength into a pewtermind, he is taking his physical strength and converting it into the investiture for strength. It is not "raw" investiture, it is the investiture for the feruchemical strength.

So with a nicrosil feruchemist, the ability to use investiture is being converted into the investiture for using investiture. Not as pure investiture. I say this because if a Thug were to store the ability to burn pewter in a nicrosil metalmind and another were to draw upon it, they can't do anything unless they ingest some pewter. Thus only the ability to use investiture (in this case, the ability to burn pewter) is being stored and not raw investiture. If it was raw investiture, then they wouldn't need any pewter, they could just draw it from the metalmind; it would be like drawing in from the Mists. 

 

Edited December 10, 2016 by shadowwisp
paragraph spacing.

[Spoolofwhool]

1 hour ago, shadowwisp said:

So with a nicrosil feruchemist, the ability to use investiture is being converted into the investiture for using investiture. Not as pure investiture. I say this because if a Thug were to store the ability to burn pewter in a nicrosil metalmind and another were to draw upon it, they can't do anything unless they ingest some pewter. Thus only the ability to use investiture (in this case, the ability to burn pewter) is being stored and not raw investiture. If it was raw investiture, then they wouldn't need any pewter, they could just draw it from the metalmind; it would be like drawing in from the Mists. 

Generally yes, except that your statement about raw investiture and the mists are slightly incorrect. The mists are not raw investiture, nor do I think there really is such investiture such as raw investiture. All investiture is essentially carries a certain alignment, which alignments it for a specific usage. However, all investiture can, in theory, be used to fuel any manifestation of investiture, because investiture is investiture, the fuel for any magic. An example of this is the allomantic investiture drawn from Preservation being used to empower feruchemy through compounding. The mists are not raw investiture however, they are aligned to Preservation, which is why they can easily be used to fuel allomancy, as allomancy is of Preservation, but could be used to fuel feruchemy if desired by Preservation. 

Warbreaker things

Spoiler

An example of investiture being used indiscriminately because all investiture is essentially the same is with Nightblood. Nightblood can consume any type of investiture, be it breath, the spark of life, the allomantic power granted when a metal is burned, etc. 

 

[Inquisitor #5]

18 hours ago, shadowwisp said:

 

Hmmm, maybe its my definition of investiture that is incorrect. Let me try explaining things in how I see it and let me know if I am wrong. Although the more I think about it, the more my view seems correct. Unless I am misunderstanding you guys and we are all saying the same thing hahaha. 

 

In very rough terms, an analog of investiture is energy. In the sense that like energy, there are multiple forms of investiture, they can be converted into different forms of each other, and be used to power things/abilities. You could replace the word "investiture" with "energy" in the following paragraphs and it would still make sense: 

So when a pewter feruchemist stores his strength into a pewtermind, he is taking his physical strength and converting it into the investiture for strength. It is not "raw" investiture, it is the investiture for the feruchemical strength.

So with a nicrosil feruchemist, the ability to use investiture is being converted into the investiture for using investiture. Not as pure investiture. I say this because if a Thug were to store the ability to burn pewter in a nicrosil metalmind and another were to draw upon it, they can't do anything unless they ingest some pewter. Thus only the ability to use investiture (in this case, the ability to burn pewter) is being stored and not raw investiture. If it was raw investiture, then they wouldn't need any pewter, they could just draw it from the metalmind; it would be like drawing in from the Mists. 

 

 

Yeah, they store the ability to use Investiture, not the output Investiture itself. (Isn't it a lot of fun when we use the same name for both the ability itself and its effect? )

 

 

¤_¤

[Oversleep]

To clarify: souls are a mixture of Investiture and Connections (more or less). Hemalurgy steals fragments of soul - Innate Investiture in other words. Nicrosil stores Innate Investiture - there's a reason why Nicrosil is a Spiritual Feruchemical metal and why Nicrosil Ferrings are called Soulbearers.

So thinking that Nicrosil stores "abilities to use Investiture" is correct but misleading; it stores Investiture in your soul and abilities are ingrained in you that way.

I suspect it's also possible to store human attributes (y'know, the same which are in kandra Blessings).

[Inquisitor #5]

1 hour ago, Ookla the Sunrise Watcher said:

So thinking that Nicrosil stores "abilities to use Investiture" is correct but misleading; it stores Investiture in your soul and abilities are ingrained in you that way.

Ah, yes. But it still stands that Investiture stored is one specific thing and not "generic Investiture." And at the current time, for all intents and purposes "stores the capability to use Investiture" is correct, no?

1 hour ago, Ookla the Sunrise Watcher said:

I suspect it's also possible to store human attributes (y'know, the same which are in kandra Blessings).

And that's really interesting, hadn't thought of it before. Might be possible with a bit of Spiritual gymnastics.

 

¤_¤

[Spoolofwhool]

1 hour ago, Ookla the Sunrise Watcher said:

So thinking that Nicrosil stores "abilities to use Investiture" is correct but misleading; it stores Investiture in your soul and abilities are ingrained in you that way.

I suspect it's also possible to store human attributes (y'know, the same which are in kandra Blessings).

Except it's not misleading since we actually have no idea whether it is possible to store human attributes, since all evidence points to it only being able to store the ability use a manifestation of investiture. In addition, if it could store human attribute, it would immediately become better than a number of other branches of feruchemy, since physical strength, memories, and a few others are human attributes. In other words, nicrosil feruchemy would be automatically better than pewter feruchemy since it would be able to store a much larger range of attributes. This is why I think that Nicrosil can only store innate investiture relating to the use of manifestations of investiture.

 

 

[Oversleep]

54 minutes ago, Spoolofwhool said:

Except it's not misleading since we actually have no idea whether it is possible to store human attributes, since all evidence points to it only being able to store the ability use a manifestation of investiture. In addition, if it could store human attribute, it would immediately become better than a number of other branches of feruchemy, since physical strength, memories, and a few others are human attributes. In other words, nicrosil feruchemy would be automatically better than pewter feruchemy since it would be able to store a much larger range of attributes. This is why I think that Nicrosil can only store innate investiture relating to the use of manifestations of investiture.

My point is that nicrosil stores Innate Investiture, period. Whether it can only store those parts related to abilities you have or it can store other parts is material for another discussion altogether.

Because what does it even mean "it stories abilities"? What is an ability, actually? That's why it's much better to refer to it as Innate Investiture; we have only had Nicrosil Feruchemy introduced, it can go a long way.

[Spoolofwhool]

10 minutes ago, Ookla the Sunrise Watcher said:

My point is that nicrosil stores Innate Investiture, period. Whether it can only store those parts related to abilities you have or it can store other parts is material for another discussion altogether.

Because what does it even mean "it stories abilities"? What is an ability, actually? That's why it's much better to refer to it as Innate Investiture; we have only had Nicrosil Feruchemy introduced, it can go a long way.

I'm defining abilities, as it only being able to store the ability to use a manifestation of investiture. In other words, it can only store the innate investiture related to using magic, if you want to be colloquial. Saying it can store innate investiture is just too vague based on the information we have, as that would bound it into the domains of other branches of feruchemy. That's why I think that it should be more precisely defined based on the information we have, unless we receive new information that tells us differently.

[Releaser12]

If you were a Gold misting and a Duralumin Ferring and you world-hopped to Sel and then connected to MaiPon, you would be a phenomenal Soulforger.

[Releaser12]

Personally I would want to be an Augur-Firesoul Twinborn if I could.

[Tazren]

I'd be a Bloodmaker for sure on the Feruchemy side of it. Seems like easily the best life enhancement in our current world. Cure any serious illness, any debilitating injury, get rid of stuff like arthritis and other annoyances of getting older. Since most of us probably don't get shot at and beaten up quite as often as Wayne, it feels like it'd be possible to store up really serious amounts of health for when it's needed.  I'd take that over the other cooler effects (wakefulness would be a close second, as would connection). 

Then I'd go for Soother on the other side, to get some everyday supernatural perks. I always like to try and be diplomatic and solve conflicts, so Soothing feels like the best way to go about it. 

Been wondering what kind of resonance those two might have. You're using Feruchemy to constantly heal your body, and Brass to manipulate other people's emotions. Could it give you some sort of emotional fortitude? The ability to overcome emotional trauma and distress very easily? Or perhaps some of that healing power would seep into Soothing, so that you could "Soothe" away mental illnesses in others? Permanently, and not just temporarily rid them of negative emotions. 

[+robardin]

On 12/10/2016 at 0:01 AM, Spoolofwhool said:

Warbreaker things

  Hide contents

An example of investiture being used indiscriminately because all investiture is essentially the same is with Nightblood. Nightblood can consume any type of investiture, be it breath, the spark of life, the allomantic power granted when a metal is burned, etc. 

 

Wait a minute. An Allomancer burning a metal releases Investiture? Even A-aluminum?

So... Finally a way for those "duraluminum gnat" Mistings to use their power, other than becoming an A-duralumin hemalurgic spike fodder?

 

 

 

Edited February 8, 2017 by robardin

[Spoolofwhool]

22 minutes ago, robardin said:

Wait a minute. An Allomancer burning a metal releases Investiture? Even A-aluminum?

So... Finally a way for those "duraluminum gnat" Mistings to use their power, other than becoming an A-duralumin hemalurgic spike fodder?

 

 

 

No. Burning metals don't release investiture, except in the case of God metals. However, investiture is obtained from Preservation when metals are burned, which is what I was referring to.

[+robardin]

14 minutes ago, Spoolofwhool said:

No. Burning metals don't release investiture, except in the case of God metals. However, investiture is obtained from Preservation when metals are burned, which is what I was referring to.

OK, but is that not effectively the same thing vis-a-vis what you spoilered wrt Warbreaker...

Spoiler

Feeding Nightblood?

 

Edited February 8, 2017 by robardin

[Spoolofwhool]

19 minutes ago, robardin said:

OK, but is that not effectively the same thing vis-a-vis what you spoilered wrt Warbreaker...

  Reveal hidden contents

Feeding Nightblood?

 

How was it not? 

[+robardin]

Just now, Spoolofwhool said:

How was it not? 

Ah, I took your "no" to mean "that wouldn't work" (to you-know-what to you-know-which), versus distinguishing between "releasing" and "obtaining" Investiture as when using Allomancy.

[ElendIncarnate]

does anyone know what would happen if you compounded nicrosil? i was thinking that it might icrease any kind of allomacy like compounding does feruchemy - an option for an enemy with hemalurgic spikes maybe? because then they could increase their allomantic power like duralumin.

Edited August 17, 2018 by ElendIncarnate