Twinborn Combos

[IndigoAjah]

It doesn't matter! Keepers in particular spend enough time reading and writing and standing at feasts that they should be able to store loads of speed even at 50% filling, and then in Era 2 with a less active lifestyle for the middle classes in particular, people could spend most of their days doing sedentary work and storing speed the whole time! This makes it seems an EASY attribute to store, even if you can only store at 50% especially as Speedrunners are unlikely to be kept doing physical manual labour.

With enough speed and Pewter, you should be able to move fast enough that Atium is useless, and now it's loads easier to store than I thought. No wonder Inquisitors were so feared- just give them a speed granting spike, let them store whilst on guard duty and then they should be able to beat anything

I'm also dubious that pewter or plate grant 3x normal speed. That seems arbitrary and I think you're underestimating how faster 1.5x normal speed is. It's very very fast for small movements especially

Edited April 23, 2016 by IndigoAjah

[natc]

It's a pain in the chull to store to a level that enables spectacular feats, I reckon.

Also, judging from showings in the Wax and Wayne books, physics!speed doesn't work the way feruchemical speed seems to.

[Pathfinder]

It doesn't matter! Keepers in particular spend enough time reading and writing and standing at feasts that they should be able to store loads of speed even at 50% filling, and then in Era 2 with a less active lifestyle for the middle classes in particular, people could spend most of their days doing sedentary work and storing speed the whole time! This makes it seems an EASY attribute to store, even if you can only store at 50% especially as Speedrunners are unlikely to be kept doing physical manual labour.

With enough speed and Pewter, you should be able to move fast enough that Atium is useless, and now it's loads easier to store than I thought. No wonder Inquisitors were so feared- just give them a speed granting spike, let them store whilst on guard duty and then they should be able to beat anything

I'm also dubious that pewter or plate grant 3x normal speed. That seems arbitrary and I think you're underestimating how faster 1.5x normal speed is. It's very very fast for small movements especially

 

Well also consider, based on your premise, wouldn't a feruchemist have to do weight lifting to store strength for their arms? Squats to store strength for their legs? How would you store sight? Would you need to glare/squint the entire time? Hearing? Weight? If you have to be actively using something in order to store it, it becomes problematic for other attributes. 

[natc]

To be honest storing literal speed is kind of a ridiculous notion since it's just a number described to represent rate of change of displacement and is utterly meaningless without being totally arbitrary with reference frames.

Well, @Pathfinder you can't actually stop your heart from beating, and in actuality feruchemical strength manipulates muscle mass. Storing breath also deprives you of oxygen internally, and your senses operate nonstop even if they sense nothing unless physically neutralized somehow by damaging them.

[Pathfinder]

Well, @Pathfinder you can't actually stop your heart from beating, and in actuality feruchemical strength manipulates muscle mass. Storing breath also deprives you of oxygen internally, and your senses operate nonstop even if they sense nothing unless physically neutralized somehow by damaging them.

My point natc, was if speed required the feruchemist to move in order to store that attribute as IndigoAjah posited, then the same would have to stand for the other attributes. In order to store strength, you would have to actively be lifting something for instance. When we get attributes like weight, or sight it becomes problematic because how do you specify what is actively using your weight? Or actively using your senses? Is base line enough? Would closing your eyes prevent you from storing or are you technically still "seeing" your eye lids so you can still store? That is why I agree with the others that you do not have to actively move to store speed. It would cause too many other problems that we have not seen any mention of in the books. And of course there is the scene already mentioned where Sazed was locked up. I was just expanding on that. 

[IndigoAjah]

Well also consider, based on your premise, wouldn't a feruchemist have to do weight lifting to store strength for their arms? Squats to store strength for their legs? How would you store sight? Would you need to glare/squint the entire time? Hearing? Weight? If you have to be actively using something in order to store it, it becomes problematic for other attributes. 

No because you are always using your senses, you always have a strength, speed is linked to being in motion. Speed is pretty much the only one that you don't always actively use

[Pathfinder]

No because you are always using your senses, you always have a strength, speed is linked to being in motion. Speed is pretty much the only one that you don't always actively use

Your whole body is always in motion. Your blood cells pumping, your heart beating, your lungs expanding and contracting, your last meal causing peristalsis in your intestinal tract. We are all moving thousands of miles an hour hurtling through space on the planet earth. Motion is relative. Sitting still is storing potential speed energy. Otherwise how would you store weight by sitting? How do you store identity? Connection? Do you have to actively being thinking "I am me" or actively thinking "Hey I am thinking of my mother today who I have a connection with". 

Edited April 25, 2016 by Pathfinder

[Oversleep]

Storing the speed which we're moving through cosmos at would result in spectacular !SPLAT!.

But yeah, the rest of what you wrote @Pathfinder is correct. Storing steel is storing the speed of your body movements, both micro- and macro.
 

Edited April 25, 2016 by Oversleep

[Eki]

How long did Sazed have to store speed? Wasn't it quite a long time? If what Pathfinder says is true regarding the blood and stuff, speed would indeed be very slow to store, since you would slow down everything, including your heart rate and blood flow. That could get really dangerous.

[Pathfinder]

How long did Sazed have to store speed? Wasn't it quite a long time? If what Pathfinder says is true regarding the blood and stuff, speed would indeed be very slow to store, since you would slow down everything, including your heart rate and blood flow. That could get really dangerous.

Yeah I was thinking the same thing, but I think that this is one of the times we have to just say "magic". I mean reducing or increasing your muscle mass (pewter), causing yourself to hyperventilate or highly oxygenating your blood (cadmium), reducing your body temperature or increasing it(bronze) are all actions that normally could cause quite a bit of damage to the human body. Yet a feruchemist can do it without harm (baring going zero which I do not recall based on theories if it is even possible to do so, and even if you can I believe it will kill you). 

Edited April 26, 2016 by Pathfinder

[Eki]

Good points!

[natc]

Well actually I'm pretty sure they mostly stop way before they approach zero due to the whole dying thing.

Storing in steel conspicuously doesn't do anything to thought. It's weird.

Edited April 26, 2016 by natc

[Zincmind]

Has anyone else realized that a nicrosil compounder would essentially be TLR reborn? s/he could compound investiture for a theoretically infinite amount and constantly tap it to get all allomantic and feruchemical powers, becoming insanely powerful.

Spoiler

Investiture has been shown to do this at the end of BoM, so the science does work. 

 

[Jondesu]

Just now, shardbearer1 said:

Has anyone else realized that a nicrosil compounder would essentially be TLR reborn? s/he could compound investiture for a theoretically infinite amount and constantly tap it to get all allomantic and feruchemical powers, becoming insanely powerful.

  Hide contents

Investiture has been shown to do this at the end of BoM, so the science does work. 

 

Unless they have the other powers to store in nicrosil, it doesn't work that way.  They'd just be storing and tapping their own Nicrosil abilities, but wouldn't gain other powers.

[Zincmind]

Spoiler

at the end of BoM both Wax and Marasi got the full sets of feruchemical and allomantic powers even though Wax only had one of each and Marasi was only a misting. 

so the nicrosil compounder would get every other allomantic and feruchemical power, just like Wax when he held the bands of mourning and used their investiture to give himself allomancy. 

In another way, investiture is the lerasium of feruchemy. people without any previous feruchemical powers were able to store weight and tap heat when using the medallions filled with investiture.

 

[Zincmind]

another interesting power(only available through hemalurgy) would be a iron compounder and slider. Wane says in BoM that if an object has enough mass, the speed bubble will move with you. if a iron compounder infinetly increased his weight, say to 0.1 the mass of the earth, besides catastrophic cosmic effects, the person would be so massive their speed bubble would move with them as they moved. It would be like the aforementioned steel compounder, and could land some really mean punches at that weight.

[Spoolofwhool]

18 minutes ago, shardbearer1 said:

  Hide contents

at the end of BoM both Wax and Marasi got the full sets of feruchemical and allomantic powers even though Wax only had one of each and Marasi was only a misting. 

so the nicrosil compounder would get every other allomantic and feruchemical power, just like Wax when he held the bands of mourning and used their investiture to give himself allomancy. 

In another way, investiture is the lerasium of feruchemy. people without any previous feruchemical powers were able to store weight and tap heat when using the medallions filled with investiture.

 

That only happened because nicrosil feruchemy was used to store every power. The Bands of Mourning were not just made by a single soulbearing ferring, it required someone holding all the powers, or a combination of people who collectively had access to all the necessary powers. You cannot just tap a nicrosil metalmind and turn the charge into the ability to use a manifestation of investiture of your choosing, you can only tap the ability which was stored into it.

[Spoolofwhool]

13 minutes ago, shardbearer1 said:

another interesting power(only available through hemalurgy) would be a iron compounder and slider. Wane says in BoM that if an object has enough mass, the speed bubble will move with you. if a iron compounder infinetly increased his weight, say to 0.1 the mass of the earth, besides catastrophic cosmic effects, the person would be so massive their speed bubble would move with them as they moved. It would be like the aforementioned steel compounder, and could land some really mean punches at that weight.

You would need a lot less than 10% the mass of the Earth. A moving train is enough, though a carriage is not, so that should give a rough estimate of what mass range is necessary.

Edited December 4, 2016 by Spoolofwhool

[Zincmind]

first off, I dont want to sound mean, im just trying to figure out how this all works. but if  you can only tap nicrosil to get better at tapping/storing nicrosil, then I think Brandon would have named it something different than investiture. I mean, investiture is how all the magic in the cosmere works according to him. so then you are literally storing the ability to do magic. I am interpreting this as any magic, not just nicrosil feruchemy.

[Spoolofwhool]

5 minutes ago, shardbearer1 said:

first off, I dont want to sound mean, im just trying to figure out how this all works. but if  you can only tap nicrosil to get better at tapping/storing nicrosil, then I think Brandon would have named it something different than investiture. I mean, investiture is how all the magic in the cosmere works according to him. so then you are literally storing the ability to do magic. I am interpreting this as any magic, not just nicrosil feruchemy.

You are correct that the defining it as storing investiture is vague. However, it is technically correct, as the spiritual elements which give someone the ability to use a manifestation of investiture is composed of investiture, which you are storing. However, as far as we're aware, there isn't a concise way to say it, since magic is not an in-Cosmere term, so investiture is the shortest and best answer there is. For your second part, that is what I said; nicrosil feruchemy can be used to store the ability to use any manifestation of investiture. However, in order to store it, you must first possess it as a result of another process, and that is what I was getting at, since your suggestion seemed to imply that you thought that you could tap any feruchemical charge in a nicrosilmind for any manifestation of investiture.

[Zincmind]

so your saying that nicrosil works like tinminds, and similar to how a blind person wouldnt be able to store sight because he has none, a person with the powers s/he is trying to store would not be able to. that makes sense, thanks

[Stonesinew134]

My personal favorite twinborn idea is a steel running leech. Steel running would allow you to close the distance and make the physical contact required to leech an opponent's metal reserves by burning chromium.

[Jondesu]

4 hours ago, shardbearer1 said:

so your saying that nicrosil works like tinminds, and similar to how a blind person wouldnt be able to store sight because he has none, a person with the powers s/he is trying to store would not be able to. that makes sense, thanks

Yep, that's a very apt analogy. The nice thing is they can store abilities that are otherwise temporary (we think), and then tap them later to get them again temporarily. Compounding makes that very versatile when combined with other magic systems.

[Stonesinew134]

On 12/4/2016 at 0:21 PM, shardbearer1 said:

another interesting power(only available through hemalurgy) would be a iron compounder and slider. Wane says in BoM that if an object has enough mass, the speed bubble will move with you. if a iron compounder infinetly increased his weight, say to 0.1 the mass of the earth, besides catastrophic cosmic effects, the person would be so massive their speed bubble would move with them as they moved. It would be like the aforementioned steel compounder, and could land some really mean punches at that weight.

Does tapping Iron impair movement?

[Spoolofwhool]

22 minutes ago, WaxOnWaxOff said:

Does tapping Iron impair movement?

Yes. You need more force to accelerate yourself the same amount, and momentum shifts are harder as well. Feruchemy just changes your body enough to support the increased mass, but it doesn't strengthen you so that you can move at the same rate. Eventually you would reach a point where you wouldn't be strong enough to move yourself.

Edited December 6, 2016 by Spoolofwhool