Twinborn Combos

[Magestar]

Now that I have read all 20 pages of this topic, I feel ready to make an addition to it! 

 

I believe there exists a Twinborn combo not yet talked about on this topic.  A Pewter/Chromium combo.  Imagine, not only being able to tap luck, and instantly hit what you are aiming for, but also having the strength to back it up.  Practically all your hits would be instant KO's!  This would be an excellent Mercenary Twinborn. 

Edited April 18, 2016 by Magestar

[The_Dark_Fungi]

Now that I have read all 20 pages of this topic, I feel ready to make an addition to it! 

I salute you, sir. "XD.

I believe there exists a Twinborn combo not yet talked about on this topic.  A Pewter/Chromium combo.  Imagine, not only being able to tap luck, and instantly hit what you are aiming for, but also having the strength to back it up.  Practically all your hits would be instant KO's!  This would be an excellent Mercenary Twinborn.

Well, maybe, except the two abilities seem to work separately. It would be like with Wayne. His two powers are good, but they don't work together. Pewter/Gold, Pewter/Steel, and probably a few others do. Chromium's ability is so distinct that it is hard for it to work together with anything other than Bendalloy and Cadmium, but it works fine on its own. (Did anyone else think that Sanderson made Feruchemical Iron weight JUST so it would work with allomantic Steel?)

[Pathfinder]

Although we have not seen it yet, Sanderson has been quoted in saying as well as in the Ars Arcanum of one of the AoL books to state that twinborn combos have a bonus "effect" from their interaction. Much like how knights radiant windrunners and skybreakers both share gravitation, the interaction with their other surge (adhesion and division respectively) would yield a separate effect. 

[Oversleep]

Well, maybe, except the two abilities seem to work separately. It would be like with Wayne. His two powers are good, but they don't work together.

The way he fights is based on this specific combo. So they work together, just not so obviously like Allomantic steel/ Feruchemical iron, Allomantic pewter/ Feruchemical gold or whatever.

But you're right, Feruchemical chromium is really distinct from other powers.

[IndigoAjah]

We still have no idea of how Feruchemical Chromium works, though. I don't think we can make many assumptions about it (though my personal assumption is that it is at least similar to and influenced by WoT's Mat)

[Magestar]

I salute you, sir. "XD.

 

 

-bows-

 

 

Well, maybe, except the two abilities seem to work separately. It would be like with Wayne. His two powers are good, but they don't work together. Pewter/Gold, Pewter/Steel, and probably a few others do. Chromium's ability is so distinct that it is hard for it to work together with anything other than Bendalloy and Cadmium, but it works fine on its own. (Did anyone else think that Sanderson made Feruchemical Iron weight JUST so it would work with allomantic Steel?)

 

    The two abilities work separately? I understand that there powers do not compound. I believe I understand what you mean, that the abilities do not work within the same boundaries? But I think that if you tapped luck while you were trying to hit something, it would make it more likely that you could hit it?  Even if I am wrong about that, Pewter/Chromium would allow you to be luckier in combat, and stronger/agiler in combat.  Unless I am missing something fundamental about how this works.  

 

    I do not pretend to understand how you "store" luck.  It does not make any sense, unless you allow luck to just be... Luck.  

Edited April 19, 2016 by Magestar

[Oversleep]

I believe that anytime sometime says that given two powers "work together", it means that there is some synergy between them (not Compounding) - for example, Crasher combo: Steelpushing is a good ability on its own. Manipulating your own weight can be handy, but it's not as useful, as for example Feruchemical steel.

But put those powers together... ridiculously powerful Steelpushing and Skimmer part is also made more useful as Steelpushing lets you jump around at high speeds and being able to alter your weight is a powerful addition to it.

On the other hand, Feruchemical chromium doesn't pair so well with any Allomantic ability - it just is a distinct power on its own and doesn't really augment or is augmented by other powers. So its use is basically the same for any Twinborn (apart from double chromium, of course).
 

I hope my explanation helps.

---------------------------------------------------
Anyway, most of the Twinborn combos work well with Allomantic pewter. Allomantic pewter is a 'red mage' for Feruchemical steel, Feruchemical pewter, Feruchemical bronze, Feruchemical brass, Feruchemical bendalloy, Feruchemical cadmium and Feruchemical gold. It covers all these powers, so its reasonable that pairing it with any of them will be a good combination.

Edited April 20, 2016 by Oversleep

[BrightVoid]

One instance where Feruchemical chromium is useful it paired with allomantic steel.  All pushes connect, making you the best sniper that ever lived.  I personally think that chromium works similar to precognition from the reckoners series, just randomly shoot with no aim and it will hit something.

[Oversleep]

One instance where Feruchemical chromium is useful it paired with allomantic steel.  All pushes connect, making you the best sniper that ever lived.  I personally think that chromium works similar to precognition from the reckoners series, just randomly shoot with no aim and it will hit something.

But there is no additional gain from Feruchemical chromium being paired with steel. Having more luck is not something more beneficial to Allomantic steel than to other Allomantic metals.

That's what it means when power is 'distinct' - it doesn't mix with others. It works on its own and while it can be useful, it's not something unique.

For example, Feruchemical steel is awesome power and Allomantic zinc / Allomantic brass are also awesome powers. But their combination is not unique, the powers don't lend to each other, they don't complement. However, if you pair Allomantic zinc/ Allomantic brass with Feruchemical aluminium/ fduraluminium, then you have a very good combination (probably, as it's just speculation).

-----

On another note, I'd love to see a story about cadmium Compounder. Being able to stay underwater for hours? Awesome!

[Archibaldie]

Here are my thoughts about feruchemical chromium, which I don't think have been brought up as of yet.

 

A Tineye/Spinner would make a ludicrously effective sniper. Enhanced sight to see and aim better without the need for a scope. (Scopes are bad because scope glare can reveal you.) Using tin to aim properly and then tapping chrome so that no sudden gust of wind will take your shot astray. You'd be able to hit your target with near certainty.

 

When using aluminium bullets this is also a near undetectable way to take someone down. With chromium you also might be lucky enough that your targets allies can't quite locate the sound because they, luckily, were distracted at the moment. Also this should make enemies less likely to look in the direction you're in.

[Magestar]

On the other hand, Feruchemical chromium doesn't pair so well with any Allomantic ability - it just is a distinct power on its own and doesn't really augment or is augmented by other powers. So its use is basically the same for any Twinborn (apart from double chromium, of course).

 

I hope my explanation helps.

It did.  But I think that Chromium is not so much a metal that is not helpful for any combo, but that it provides a similar effect for each combo.  In that sense, it is sort of a wild card.  Like this:

 

But there is no additional gain from Feruchemical chromium being paired with steel. Having more luck is not something more beneficial to Allomantic steel than to other Allomantic metals.

That's what it means when power is 'distinct' - it doesn't mix with others. It works on its own and while it can be useful, it's not something unique.

 

I think a better way of looking at it is that it is equally benificial, not less useful.  It is distinct, but it does mix well with others.  It just does not have a noticible effect.

    I remember hearing that two metals have there individual powers, and a "effect".  It makes me wonder, with a power so spanning as chromium, how are there unique effects for every combo it is in.  Luck effects all powers equally. 

Edited April 20, 2016 by Magestar

[Three1415]

F-Chromium is weird, and I don't particularly like it as a result. Everything else in Feruchemy stores something tangible--strength, speed, etc. "Luck" is so abstract and wide-spanning that it kind of breaks the realistic mold that all the other powers have--it's too potent, because "luck" is not a thing that really exists, so instead one is altering the entirety of the universe to have something turn out "lucky." So much for only internal powers...

[Magestar]

F-Chromium is weird, and I don't particularly like it as a result. Everything else in Feruchemy stores something tangible--strength, speed, etc. "Luck" is so abstract and wide-spanning that it kind of breaks the realistic mold that all the other powers have--it's too potent, because "luck" is not a thing that really exists, so instead one is altering the entirety of the universe to have something turn out "lucky." So much for only internal powers...

 

 It is odd.  I wonder how Brandon would explain it.

[asterion137]

did anyone suggest f-steel and a-bendalloy? Instead of tapping steel all the time, you can just use it when your speed bubble is down. Basically a steel compounder lite lol

[Your3rdShadow]

did anyone suggest f-steel and a-bendalloy? Instead of tapping steel all the time, you can just use it when your speed bubble is down. Basically a steel compounder lite lol

That's called a blur, and they are terrifying. Slider's are already hard to see(if not outright invisible) in their bubble and can do so many things in them by the time the bubble goes down. A Blur, could build a house in 5-10 minutes with enough stored speed, which as you stated, would be easy for them to store. They could search a building thoroughly in a minute(Assuming they can make their bubble big enough), kill and dispose of a crowd of people in the blink of an eye. The possibilities are scary man.

[Oversleep]

That's called a blur, and they are terrifying. Slider's are already hard to see(if not outright invisible) in their bubble and can do so many things in them by the time the bubble goes down. A Blur, could build a house in 5-10 minutes with enough stored speed, which as you stated, would be easy for them to store. They could search a building thoroughly in a minute(Assuming they can make their bubble big enough), kill and dispose of a crowd of people in the blink of an eye. The possibilities are scary man.

I think he meant alternating between Steelrunning and Sliding; the problem with bubbles is you can't move them and you can't make multiple ones and there is a cooldown between dispersing the last one and putting up a new one. You compensate for all of this by Steelrunning. That way you're still very fast but you're using less stored speed.

[Your3rdShadow]

I think he meant alternating between Steelrunning and Sliding; the problem with bubbles is you can't move them and you can't make multiple ones and there is a cooldown between dispersing the last one and putting up a new one. You compensate for all of this by Steelrunning. That way you're still very fast but you're using less stored speed.

I'm actually playing a MAG with a Blur on saturdays, we had discussed that. You can use it that way, but I personally don't think that's the most important use of the power combo. To clarify, sure you can save on using steel by making a bubble, but you still have trouble shooting out of it, and anyone caught in it with you are subject to the same benefits you are. So really, the only benefit to using them separately back to back, is that you can move your bubble farther, faster. Where as if you use them at the same time, your basically time compounding. You can achieve so much more in 5 minutes than either power by itself could ever hope to accomplish.

[Pathfinder]

Or you could put up a bendalloy bubble, and store speed while reading a book or something. Then your day isn't wasted and you stored a bunch of speed with time left to do your normal day to day activities. Not everything has to be combat orientated lol. 

[IndigoAjah]

I'm not convinced reading would store much speed - there's relatively little motion to slow down

[Oversleep]

I'm not convinced reading would store much speed - there's relatively little motion to slow down

that's not how it works. You can sit perfectly still and store as much speed as you could while running.

[IndigoAjah]

that's not how it works. You can sit perfectly still and store as much speed as you could while running.

Are you sure? Unless you have a WOB, I am at least 90% sure this is wrong

 

Seems very odd, given that Sazed said it was tricky and inconvenient to store speed. As a scholar, this would be a ludicrous thing to say if he could store it whilst reading

 

 

Or to reiterate what I said but more accurately: you can of course store speed whilst sitting still, but your speed is zero )and reading it would be minimal), so you be storing a percentage of zero, which is of course zero

Edited April 23, 2016 by IndigoAjah

[Three1415]

Are you sure? Unless you have a WOB, I am at least 90% sure this is wrong

 

Seems very odd, given that Sazed said it was tricky and inconvenient to store speed. As a scholar, this would be a ludicrous thing to say if he could store it whilst reading

 

 

Or to reiterate what I said but more accurately: you can of course store speed whilst sitting still, but your speed is zero )and reading it would be minimal), so you be storing a percentage of zero, which is of course zero

 

Ah...That's not how Feruchemy works. In fact in HoA we see Sazed store a comparatively massive amount of speed while stuck in a prison cell in the kandra Homeland, so you obviously don't have to be moving to do so. 

 

Let's face it: For all his virtues, Sazed is really bad at the resource management part of Feruchemy, and seems to rarely use any of it to its full potential: Throughout the series we see many, many instances where he could be storing at the very least strength, if not weight, hearing, and speed as well, but instead chooses not to, for whatever reason.

Edited April 23, 2016 by Three1415

[Oversleep]

Are you sure? Unless you have a WOB, I am at least 90% sure this is wrong

Yeah, I am sure.

I don't even need a WoB. First, that's not how Feruchemy works.

Second, in HoA Sazed stays still while storing speed when he's imprisoned by kandra.

Edit: Colours! Three1415 (love the nick by the way) ninja'd me!

Edited April 23, 2016 by Oversleep

[IndigoAjah]

But your speed when not moving is zero. If you are moving your hands or something, you will have some speed to store, but it's going to take ages and ages to get any usable amount

And I don't understand what you mean by "that isn't how Feruchemy works"? You store an attribute. Speed is an attribute entirely dependent on your motion. If you are not in motion you have no speed to store. Unless you are implying it is your capacity to be speedy that one stores? But then, steel is ridiculously easy to store, all Keepers and Inquisitors should have a ludicrous amount given how common it is and how easily you could wear it. The extension of which is that 1) Steelrunners really are unstoppable and 2) Sazed is much much much more stupid than I would have thought

Edit: fine, fair enough. That's a broken magic system then, though, unless Brandon has another reason why Steel storing is so inconvenient. Why even bother compounding the stuff?!

Edited April 23, 2016 by IndigoAjah

[Oversleep]

Think about it like RPG character statistics - when storing you lower one. When tapping you increase it temporarily. You don't have to actually do anything related to the attribute you're storing or tapping.

The thing with steel is that you can maybe safely store 50%. Go more than that and heart/breathing problems occur. Standard Tapping Rate would be 50%, then. Go higher than that and you start losing power due to the need to compress it. Moving at 150% your usual speed is not really much. To have observable effects you probably need to go at least 300%. That would be about Thug/Shardbearer speed.

So you need to have huge reserves to mess around with Steelrunning. That's why Steel Compounders are so terrifying.