Twinborn Combos

[RJWB0mb]

sorry for my improper terminology before when i said balistics i was thinking more on explosives. so a blazer could ignite dynomite, smoke bombs , flash gernades ect...

i recall somthing about if a freurachem takes too much from his metal minds at ones it could hurt him such as too much streght makes them to bulky to move comfortably. given im not sure how well setting ones self on fire would work but i could be wrong...

[RJWB0mb]

"brazier" sorry

[Eric]

The problem with setting things on fire is that you still have to contend with obscured vision and smoke inhalation. And the typical way to avoid the latter is a pressurized air tank, which is a hilariously bad idea for a Brazier unless they can focus it on one specific area. Anyway, those are the likely drawbacks of compounding too much heat, and then stopping leaves you on fire, so there's that too. You do bring up a good point about going past the point where you can even feel heat anymore. That would be incredibly dangerous.

[Aradel]

Not to mention the lack of decently fire-retardant clothes.

[RJWB0mb]

if u can control the location of where the heat goes or comes from could u freeze things too? though that would proubly be even more dangerous to yourself.

i still like the idea of being able to ignite fuses on explosives as a practical use in battle

[Thought]

if u can control the location of where the heat goes or comes from could u freeze things too?

Impractically, yes. By lowering your own temperature, you'd act as a heat sink for the rest of the area, presumably. But this wouldn't be a fast freezing process: it would take hours, during which, to my understanding, you'd feel like you were freezing yourself.

[RJWB0mb]

though a practical application could be medically like an ice pack? or it could be defensive such as numbing areas of pain... thinking of that you could use heat to burn wounds together to heal them faster...

[Aradel]

Even then, you'd only be a few degrees cooler than normal. I'm fairly sure there's a limit on the rate you can safely store heat.

Unless, as part of me suspects, there's a feruchemical equivilant to Savants.

[RJWB0mb]

i believe this is applying to compounding double brass to you can store heat in a iregular manner.

[Aradel]

I don't think so. Compounding is burning your metalminds to get more power than you put in. Compounding for a feruchemical effect only affects storing power when you are storing the excess power in different metalminds.

I believe that in concert with the limitation of having to store power, normal feruchemy won't protect your body from the effects of the storing, meaning that you cannot fill metalminds like gold, brass, or pewter faster than is healthy without paying the price. Or feruchemy may recognize a certain level of body temperature/health/musculature as "zero" and not let the user store any more.

[RJWB0mb]

do you mind refreasing that?

[Thought]

Compounding is generally considered to be an additive process (since it involves combining two separate things into one). As Sanderson explained it in the books, to "compound" between feruchemy and allomancy, one puts power into a metal (via feruchemy) and then burns it with allomancy. In essence, one creates a new metal that has the effect of the attribute that had been stored in it. Put health into gold and then burn the gold and you have a metal that, allomantically, heals a lot all at once. That isn't overly useful, so a feruchemist can then store that power into a metalmind to draw upon as a more useful rate.

At no point does compounding take an unusual amount of attributes from the user. The original storing process happens just as per normal feruchemy. A Twinawesome (mistborn+feruchemist, as opposed to twinborn=misting+ferring) could probably store more effectively (burn pewter so you can resist the cold better, thereby allowing you to safely store more heat), but nothing except feruchemy is involved in the original storing process. Once the new "alloy" has been burned, one is only getting the attribute stored, so at no point can one use compounding to ridiculously lower one's temperature.

Indeed, there may well be a lower limit to how much one can store at any given time. If a feruchemist can only store the heat they generate, then, actually, they could never make themselves cooler than the ambient temperature.

As for practical applications: again, this wouldn't normally be a drastic effect, nor would it be sudden. Even if a feruchemist could store 20 degrees F of their body heat all at once, that wouldn't act like an icepack. That would, at best, feel like room temperature.

[RJWB0mb]

it seems you put alot of though into this. i still feel that compounding has a greater extent of effect then that just take miles as an example. as long as he had both metal minds and gold to burn he could heal from just about anything. it would seem if compounding gold could give such a drastic effect othere forms of compounding could be equaly dramatic.

[ReaderAt2046]

I think you are misunderstanding Thought's thoughts on this matter. Compounding allows you to produce extravagant tapping results, but it doesn't make storing any more spectacular. Miles had an infinite supply of healing, and the other Compounders would be equally spectacular, but not in their storing.

[RJWB0mb]

... so by compounding a brazier could produce a significantly large amount of heat but wouldnt be able to store the majority of what is produced?

[ReaderAt2046]

No, you can do that, but it would have the same effect as any other storing.

[Thought]

The short answer is: sort of. Perhaps if we track the compounding process things will make more sense to you? To note, unless otherwise noted, all degrees listed are in Fahrenheit.

Step A: A twinborn brazier Johnny Storm, stores warmth in brass. He stores 10 degrees 1 hour, thereby lowering his body temperature for that hour from 97 to 87.

Step B: Johnny swallows the metalmind.

Step C: Johnny burns that metalmind. Since allomancy gives 10x the energy (though that might be a figurative rather than literal number), those 10 degrees are turned into 100 degrees of warmth that he can tap. Since the metalmind is burning, he has to presumably draw out all that power before the metal burns up, so the actual heat he gets might be more (say, 400 degrees over 15 minutes, instead 100 over an hour).

Step D: Johnny doesn't need 100 degrees all right now, so he "lowers" his body heat by 100 (taking it down from the 197 that burning the metalmind had given him). He's just fine, since 97 is actually normal. But now he has a new metalmind that has 100 degrees over 1 hour worth of heat. That's all dandy, but let’s not stop here.

Step E: Johnny swallows this new metalmind.

Step F: Johnny burns this second metalmind. It has 100 degrees of warmth over 1 hour, now it has 1,000 degrees of heat over 1 hour. He has no need to be 1097 degrees right now, so he stores the excess 1000 degrees in a presumably very large metalmind. Later, he jumps off a roof, yells "flame on" and flies off into the sunset.

As no point would the compounding process allow him to, say, lower his temperature to 0 Kelvin. Even if that were possible, that isn't something that compounding would influence.

Edited February 27, 2012 by Thought

[Aradel]

Compounders have the same limits on storing as any other ferring.

You can't store what you don't have. A tin ferring can store until they're blind. They can hold that rate of storage, but can't exceed it.

Feruchemy won't protect you from the effects of storing.Gasper ferrings have to breath harder while storing, if they don't they would suffer the effects of oxygen deprivation.

You can only store what you can safely lose.If a brass ferring stored too much heat, their body would go into hypothermia and start to fail.

Mind you, this still counts as conjecture on my part even if I'm confident it's correct.

Edited February 27, 2012 by Goradel's Nephew

[RJWB0mb]

i think im getting it but dont fruechemic powers also help the body adapt to the changes.

[Inevitable]

i think im getting it but dont fruechemic powers also help the body adapt to the changes.

Only when being tapped.

[Zas678]

Yep. The opposite is true when you store an attribute. It's been noticed (slightly), by the fact that Wax, when storing Iron notices that he must become a little stronger so that his body doesn't crush himself. We've mostly come to the conclusion that he doesn't necessarily become stronger, but that he becomes sturdier, and that's a side affect of his tapping weight.

Now because he becomes sturdier when he taps weight, and because Feruchemal processes follow the Law of Feruchemic Storage** that means that Wax MUST become more fragile when he stores weight. It may not be very much, but it must happen.

**I'm making a new term! The Law of Feruchemic Storage, simply put is "For a purely Feruchemic process, what you put in, you get out", which must mean that "What you get out, you must put in". Compounding doesn't breaks this law because it is a combination of

[Thought]

It's also revealed by Sazed anytime he stores or uses strength. For example, in The Final Empire and Well of Ascension, his muscles deflate while he stores and then, when he draws upon strength, his muscles inflate: thus, he must be losing and gaining mass as well (or else he'd be changing his density, which would become really problematic).

[RJWB0mb]

so therorticaly could you set somthing else on fire by compounding brass? even if possible by focusing heat to a certian area?

[Zaropti]

The thing about Iron/Iron is one you would always need somebody to help you. If your juggling those two heavy weights how is a non-physically enhanced twinborn going to throw up both of them at the same time. So pretty much it would be fun to do but your not doing it without a pewterarm doing the tossing at the start... maybe any thoughts?

[Zaropti]

Also another perfect soldier mix. If your a sniper in the army and you know your going to be away on a 7 day mission (probably more) Pewter/Bendalloy have you a nice big feast and store it all and you will not need any food/water for your trip and pewter alone can keep you up for days with little to no sleep. All you can eat buffets watch out for any bendalloy ferring.