trav

Yes. Which isn't what I said. Rayse is also just the vessel, not the power itself. Rayse still got killed by another gods power. Shards got splintered by other "gods". When vessels died they did so because the killers were guided by other gods. This does not apply to what happened to Adonalsium. There was but one god. Not a lot compared to the god who apparently created all of them Another possibility. Almost a necessity if he was sentient. As is the power of Adonalsium. Even if it is splintered. You can, and many do. In my opinion Nature is God. Adonalsium should be the source, the creator, of Investiture. He is not made up of it. At least not that we know of. The point is that without access to the physical representation of him he is lacking something. He does not have access to his entire power. Even if just a fraction is missing. Then what would be the point of hiding it from him? Yes you are right. I mixed this up with my own theory that there is no vessel at all. I certainly won't. A theory would only be outdated if it is proven false or correct.

Its the 10th anniversary edition. Not that it matters since nothing relevant in this regard was changed. Kiin does not contradict Sarene. He would if what she says wasn't accurate. Yes, Raoden does describe Elantrians as having been turned into creatures with splotchy skin. Obviously missing the signs of the Reod since the Reod is over. No one has the black spots anymore at that point. The only thing you can use is that Raoden omits the black spots when he thinks about the old Hoed. However, no one in the group, not Karata, not Galladon, not Raoden, mention anything out of the ordinary for this pre-Shoad Elantrian. They notice every detail of the rooms they pass when they bring him to the pool, but never that the man is missing the spots. What happens in Secret History is less than what happens in the Reod, so no spots, obviously. You went from "tell tale sign" to "okay its just more prominent on them". It is explained that the wrinkles appear the longer you are affected by the Reod. Deprivation of Connection or Investiture effects Elantrians, no matter when they Transformed.

Kind of. I like tragedy and stakes so in my opinion Yumi should have died.

If Silver did then the Rosharans should have found that out at least by accident.

Destroyed by other forces of god? Not quite the same as Yolish people. Its as if Vin could have killed Ruin without the guide/help of Preservation. And without Ruin having restrictions on what he could do. Much like the fundamental laws of nature created you, me, our planet and the universe. They are not sentient either. Without all of his Atium Ruin isn't whole so it does break something. The point of OP would be that Adonalsium is called that way because it has no vessel. This rule does not apply here. The threads is still relevant which means there is legitimate reason to revive it. Its not outdated either. New threads should only be created is suitable old threads don't exist.

Kiin speaks like he saw it happening. He also clearly witnessed the riots and murders. Raoden was also there when it happened. As was Dilaf. Raoden is highlighting a fact about someone he saw. Wrinkles are not that special. Very deep wrinkles are. I doubt he is omitting the rest because it isn't there. Raoden should notice missing spots. Everyone else has them. I don't doubt that Elantrians will shrivel up. In the other books they are only replenishing Investiture to get rid of the wrinkles. The rest of the Shoad affliction is obviously missing. Lack of power causes the wrinkles and this affects pre as well as post Reod Elantrians. The OG ones were just subjected to it for longer. Karata got turned after the Reod and she also has wrinkled skin even though she was not a very old woman (She has a young child). Its also said that this happens to people who are in the city for long. The WoB says that the Transformation of post-Reod Elantrians isn't complete. You only assume that there are distinct visual cues for it. The book does not reflect this.

One would think that a sentient god would be able to prevent their own demise. Adonalsium being nothing more than a metal/natural force that got split up and ingested by 16 individuals sounds like a good theory.

Not sure what you are getting at. The quote from Kiin and Sarenes conversation says that Elantrians (original) skin turned patchy. They are not referring to Elantrians made after the Reod. Elantrians made before the Reod and Elantrians made after the Reod are both described equally. Same thing in a conversation between Hrathen and Dilaf right after they saw a new Elantrians. Dilaf confirmed that the original ones looked "much like that".

@alder24 Just doing a reread and both Kiin and Raoden describe the Elantrians as having patchy (splotched, black spots) skin. They both refer to the Elantrians before the Reod, not new ones. Its inconsistent at best or Raoden was just noticing an additional strange feater like wrinkles and ommited the rest.

Galladon is spitballing and Brandon is contradicting what we see. There should be a difference between old and new Elantrians then. As OP noted.

Which would not give him any insight since as a Returned he and Shashara would both have them anyways.

Every Returned has the "Royal Locks". Vashers hair changes from dark to light when he stops suppressing his Divine Breath. The "Royal Locks" are what remain when these cognitive shadows have a child. @alder24 This WOB only says how you can become a cognitive shadow. While Returned are cognitive shadows they are a special case. They hold a Divine Breath. Kelsier did not become a Returned. Stealing a Divine Breath should be possible, although hard.

Even for Shards the visions of the future are iffy. They are not clear for them either. It could be as little as a hunch to sent someone to kill Hrathen at a specific moment in time without even knowing why and what consequences this would have. This limitation is necessary for the story. Infallible future vision creates paradoxes.

The "transformation" is complete in both cases. The power that sustains them in also lacking in both. Raod Elantrians are still all able to access AonDor, just like the original Elantrians. You could think of them like Returned that would permanently get granted Investiture to not only keep them alive, but also give them additional power. Without this Investiture the Returned would all fare the same way no matter when they returned (with maybe a little reserver for a few days...). If the power flowing in becomes so little that they can barely keep themselves alive than this would effect Reod Elantrians the same way as it would the original ones.

Shai is too much of a female power phantasy for my liking. Even in her flaws she is nearly infallible. This "I am such a genius without even trying" stuff is tiresome to read. "This is a task for 10 years! There is no way I can do it in 5. Even if I worked all around the clock it would take me 2 years at least. The best I can hope for is 1 year. You'd be lucky if I can manage to do the basic work in 6 months. I'll finish everything in 3 months while also doing pointless other stuff on the side, and this is my final offer!" Other than that the book is very good indeed.

We see that Vasher does not remember his former names. So the memory loss of Returned affects him as well. Or maybe a different form of memory loss? For Lightsong parts of his former life came back to him right before he killed himself again. Somehow Arsteel, Yesteel, VaraTreledees and Shashara remember that they were siblings. Are they really siblings or do they just think so? Like random Returned children being raised together. Sounds highly unlikely for 2 siblings to become Returned. When I was reading through the Warbreaker annotations and Brandons explanation on what would be confusing for the reader etc. I noticed that this part also makes little sense without an explanation. It is just used to blatantly that I never really questioned it before, but Denth should not remember that Shashara was his sister. Neither should Arsteel and Yesteel.

I don't like this theory since it would mean that Shallan is relevant and I would have to read and pay attention to the chapters of the cosmeres worst character. Unfortunately the theory is solid. This sucks.

“You didn't use me much. You could have used me. I'm better than a shirt. I really am better than a shirt. I would have killed them. Look, They're still breathing. Stupid shirt." "You are good at it. Too good."

Exactly. I am aware of all of the rest. WOB included.

After the 6th book of A Song of Ice and Fire. I got bored of the wait for the next one and looked elsewhere for good books. Tried Rothfuss and hated it. Guys a complete hack. Tried several others and never really like them. Tried Stormight Archives and did not really like it. Bridge 4 Bridge 4 Bridge 4, give me a break. Tedious read. I was intrigued by the magic system though and kept reading other related work before I dared read another part of the SA. Elantris and Warbreaker. Both good books. Not flawless, but good. Brandon is amazing for other reason than GRRM is. GRRM is a genius in writing characters that feel and act realistically. Brandon is a master at creating a vast world. A complete universe. Brandon, unfortunately is not very good at writing dialogues. Currently reading Warbreaker for the 10th time of so just for the scene where Vasher saves the abducted child. This is what Brandon is also good at. Writing scenes that stand out and stick with you.

Of course. That is a necessity. Sounds plausible even if its unlikely. It would fall under the retcon part where Nicrosil minds of Scadrial would also need to be some sort of awakened object to function. You seem to understand what I meant though. Not sure if I got my point across correctly. Its the process of even tapping into a Nicrosil mind without any form of Feruchemy that is the kicker. Even if the Nicrosil mind could grant you all powers there are in the cosmere you would first need to be able to tap Nicrosil and I see no good way to make that work like in the unsealed metalminds unless Brandon just says "well everyone can tap Nicrosil for [whatever reason]" or like you said, giving Scadrials the ability to create awakened objects/robo sprens with intent.

I am really looking forward to Brandon expanding on Nicrosil. The way I see it he will either retcon stuff or compromise his magic system. The part where you tap into it before being able to tap anything is kind of a deal breaker in my mind.

Not possible. Its pretty much like in our world where mass and energy are the same, just transformed. You could get investiture from solid objects and use that, but you can't create more or "enhance" investiture. I am also unsure how "easier" than "like slicing through butter with next to no resistance" would look like.

If you leave Nightblood out it would eventually stop leaking. The investiture returns to where it came from.

I try not to have expectations of sequels. Warbreaker is my favorite book so a sequel will most likely not live up to my expectations.