Honorless

That's a really unique perspective actually. You should start a new thread!

There are, of course, the Elsecallers and Lightweavers with their Soulcasting, but we've already seen that. Oh, minor correction: Bondsmiths and Windrunners share Adhesion which seems to also grant some Spiritual Connection. Not Cohesion, but your point still stands. Lightweavers could do great in the entertainment industry, naturally. Perhaps those with Gravitation and Abrasion could act as express delivery Bondsmiths, Stonewards and Willshapers can restore inorganic objects including large infrastructure. The latter two can create new infrastructure (and maybe create a 'living' amusement park, that would be so cool!)

RIP Eondel, Karata, Hrathen We get an indication of how much time passed? Doesn't the scene cut straight to the funerals of Hrathen & co.? I'm pretty sure that it would've been more or less the same case as with Shardbearers in Roshar. The law would side with them, since it was made by them. As for now, maybe an Aon does exist to facilitate imprisonment of an Elantrian? Aluminum's negative interaction with Investiture is a Cosmere constant, I think. Of course this is assuming that 'Ralkalest' does refer to aluminium. Elantrians shouldn't be able to change it in any manner, now all that is needed is a teleportation jammer against Aon Tia. The political implications of a corporal form of punishment still remains though. Elantrians might be less god-like beings in the eyes of the Arelish now after the Reod but they are still rulers. Especially after the Reod and the Invasion, they're gonna need a united political front and retain public approval. Raoden's gonna have to find a more effective means of punishment than that, imo.

Who's the "he" here? Who kept his position as a functionary? I was talking about the guards, who were put there by King Iadon to make sure the new Elantrians didn't escape, iirc Raoden teleported from Elantris, we don't know whether he got back the same way. Those were multiple Aon Daa, fired simultaneously. Plus, imprisonment should still be possible, don't forget 'Emperor's Soul', a prison for Elantrians could be made from 'Ralkalest'. Of course I don't like the implications, how would a society like that function? You yourself raised this point. Even if things were like that before, with Raoden and Sarene, and all the previous Elantrians dead or off-world, things are bound to change in the coming sequels.

Huh, it can be extrapolated (for those who stumble upon this thread confused about the timeline): as I understand it, Mistborn era 2 falls between Stormlight 1-5 and Stormlight 6-10. 'Shadows for Silence in the Forests of Hell' happened before 'Way of Kings' but after Mistborn era 1 (which is set 341 years before era 2) and Warbreaker & Nightblood. Good eye, @Oltux72. And only two continents on Threnody have been confirmed so far. Silence's people might've lost a lot more than some knowledge about gunpowder, given Ire's comments on them "trying to enter the stage" would also have taken place before the Evil attacked the Homeland. Shades are a subgroup of Cognitive Shadows, but much less self-aware. Now back to the main topic, we can probably guess at the theological implications derived by the Threnodites upon the discovery of the Forests of Hell by the very name they gave it. They do seem to be or had been somewhat Cosmere-aware, they do worship the God Beyond after all. Seeing that instead of passing on, some people return as Shades could very well have been as chaotic to their society as you implicate. But I doubt we'll ever get to witness that directly, much like I doubt that we'll get to witness Classical era Scadrial.

Oh god, why did I click it? That was terrifying, why, who made this? Why?

They're already giving up a level of sapience, part of their consciousness, what more is there to give? They didn't have any theology related to the Shades before the Forescouts encountered them. It has only been implied that Nazh is from a time before the Evil came to the Homeland (it probably is true though, given that Worldhoppers tend to be much older than they seem) and we get so little time with him that further speculation would be baseless. Shadows didn't do anything in the Homeland. They were discovered first by the Forescouts (of which Silence's grandmother was one) on the continent where the Forests of Hell are located, this is in fact the reason why they were named the Forests of Hell, Homelanders thought that the Forest was hell (it did contain the souls of the dead, sort of). Unless you're suggesting that the Evil and the Shades are connected, which is a theory that has been discussed before, but again, until the Threnody novel comes, we just don't know. Silence's grandmother died after the people fled from the Evil in the Homeland. We don't know how, except she was killed by Shades and that she saved Silence (much like Sixth of the Dusk's uncle did in the other novella) Also, who is this amateur theologician from Scadrial you're talking about?

If passing Beyond is a 'true death' of sorts, I can kinda see the appeal of considering becoming a Cognitive Shadow, even a Shade. I can see someone trying to keep the Shade of a loved one too (looks at Silence). We don't know enough about their culture, traditions and beliefs though, the only viewpoint on that we got was Silence's, who saw such things as frivolous, though she did believe in a God Beyond. Besides, again with regards to the shade gun we saw Nazh use against Nicki Sauvage in the newspaper clippings in Mistborn era 2, the Threnodites do eventually learn to more than avoid angering Shades or use silver against them.

Definitely We saw Nazh's curt attitude towards Lady Sauvage in the newspaper clippings in Era 2, as much as we can trust her accounts (much more than Jak's accounts, that's for sure). Even with vast technological development on Threnody that social attitude remained with him, or at least that's how I'm interpreting that, though I do recognize that's only the second time we saw him interacting with another human being. The "stop or I'll shoot" does become more viable around Scadrial era 2, as we saw with his shade gun. As for penal system outside the forts, I think the system of bounty hunters we saw says more than enough.

(Roshar)

Hello, @Grim_Aeonian, welcome to the Shard! I'm happy to see that a book may have helped you through a difficult part of your life. Feel free to express yourself, but you don't have to open yourself to that degree if you don't want to nor do you need to explain or defend that part of your history to strangers on the internet. Hope that you like it here, again, welcome

Investiture is just energy with the potential for conversion between itself, matter and energy, interacting with the Three Realms and yes, with the possibility of gaining sentience if left alone long enough. All spren are sapient Investiture. The Dor is said to be doing this to Sel. Nothing was special about those Shards which were taken up, that's their natural state when freed, it's what Odium did to Devotion and Dominion that makes them corner cases. Ambition fled then died after in the void of space, Honor can be reassembled, possibly what Dalinar came close to doing

Hmm, that lends credence to the atmosphere theory, "sunlight" but not necessarily the sun...? The Cognitive idea of the sun perhaps, as envisioned by the Ancient Egyptians, its image as it passes from horizon to horizon in our world, though it's static on TaldaIn. @The traveller, there was a theory about the moon dispersing sunlight, with its accompanying particles and Investiture, and reflecting it into Darkside. That was very whacky and fun; there are many cool theories about Autonomy in general but not much we know for a fact.

Welcome to the Shard, @0_Graham_0! Kaladin's my favourite too I always pronounced it as Kaa-laa-din Alethi always seemed (especially in contrast to Thaylen) very equi-stressed on its syllables. But like Shard of Thought said, personal preferences What's your favourite magic system?

Not pointing out their function, only date of establishment, which I hope I'm remembering correctly but it's been a while since I last read Elantris Maybe jail them within Arelon, but far away from the city of Elantris itself? There has to be some way

@Parallax, buddy, I've defended you thrice on this page, could you listen to me and consider what I am saying now, in return? Even if there was no point where you wanted to, you did hurt people here. Apologizing would help make the conversation you're trying to have much more fruitful. @Pathfinder, saw what you did there, thank you for your consideration

Those were just the guards established by Iadon, after the Reod, to contain those taken by the Shaod. True, they would still need an internal system of justice. The novel is set post-Reod though, so unless book 2 delves into this deeper, anything would just be speculation. Wait a minute... That's it! Banishment is the perfect punishment. Remember that Elantrians are boosted by the city of Elantris. The further away from that they are, the weaker they'd get. Banishing an Elantrian from Arelon could work as long as the accused doesn't have too much support from the other Elantrians, I think.

I think you might be right. There was no mention of a police force existing or having existed. Elantrians seem to have been the absolute monarchs in Arelon, as seen by the near-total collapse of their kingdom post-Reod. No judiciary court system or indeed nobility existed prior to the Reod. All judgements were brought up to the Elantrians. But it does somehow seem that the Elantrians were more benevolent than not, with merchants and with the Shu Korath faith, though those were probably politically motivated. The benevolence could be an effect of Devotion having implemented some method for the Shaod. Though the Ire seem counter to this example, as do multiple mentions of the Shaod being random. I don't think the Elantrians would agree to a whipping post being put up in their city. Too much humiliation involved, not only is that painful, it's also not politically advisable as it runs counter to projecting their power, 'godhood' and aura of benevolence.

Even that one person if they are the OP alone, should warrant a thread lock at this point, honestly

@Pathfinder, as edited, I think underlining is the best alternative to not come out as too aggressive. No problems on this end either. Personally, I'd also recommend not responding to this thread, it's become... very unhealthy. I've stopped following it. Forums are for discussion, yes, doesn't mean propriety should die by defenestration for the sake of freedom of expression. I'm surprised the banhammer hasn't struck this thread down already.

Thank you, @Pathfinder, but Calderis already corrected me on this. I was reading those comments under a different frame of mind. One where there are people who've tattooed Brandon's quotes onto their skins. Some people get attached to an author, really attached and sometimes that leads to this when they feel completely blindsided. Not saying I agree, just that I understand. All literature is a dialogue, it used to be more apparent with old literature, now it has become subtler. I wrote that under the assumption that sometimes people say things that they don't mean, things that hurt other people, when they themselves feel hurt. Of course, this is a public forum, and the OP doesn't need to be pandered to. And people come here to have civil discussions, no one gets to make outright demands that others change their minds because they themselves have made up their minds. OP was rude and should apologize. I believe I said that too, responding to Calderis. Please don't use bold or Red, and definitely not that overly large font on texts, it makes it seem like you're shouting. Personally, I'd recommend underlining for stressing a point.

Yup, Stormfather wouldn't want a new Bondsmith but Honor would. This theory has some merit. Plus, Sanderson's writing style: very few things could be of little relevance when he is telling a story

Not solely. The Elsecallers also had the Surge of Transformation. Soulcasting allowed them to view the Cognitive Realm while leaving their Physical body behind. I would count it as another eg of complimentary Surges (same as Lightweavers' "solid illusions" and Dustbringers' friction+division), it might've been beneficial for scouting the area of the Cognitive Realm where they intended to go before Transporting there, maybe

Huh, while I did say the same thing, I only considered 'the glass half empty' side of the argument... Yup, after becoming Honor's shadow, he may have been compelled to search for a Radiant to bond to. We already know he wasn't among the Nahel Bond spren who foresaw the coming catastrophy and did not really seek out someone to bond. He only kept the word of the oath, not the intent behind it, as he admits. In fact, he was vehemently opposed to the idea (as seen at the end of WoR when he speeds up the Highstorm to collide with the Everstorm) Ooh! This raises since interesting questions about the spren that did see it coming...

We don't know how the Oathgates function, we'll just have to wait and see. Elsecalling isn't just for Elsecallers, all Orders share a Surge with another, so Willshapers can Elsecall too. It might do something similar in a different manner though. If the confusion is from the Elsecallers' role comment then, that role was taken up by an Order of Knights Radiant not just a Surgebinding Order, keeping in mind that the former is as much a socio-political institution as it is a group of people with a certain skillset. This is demonstrated here: Plus, once political connection has been established, sending a different party to maintain diplomatic relations seems suboptimal. This kind of diplomacy may become necessary again as the Stoneward spren, Willshaper spren (Spark is an outlier) and Ashspren in particular still harbour dislike towards humans for the Recreance. Connecting the Three Realms would be hard, it was as much an effect of the Words he spoke as conscious decision to provide a way back into the Physical Realm for Kaladin, Shallan & Adolin, as well as to provide an edge to his own side by providing them with Stormlight (which we see him discussing with The Stormfather). So yeah, not a viable alternative to the Oathgates.