Honorless

But Adonalsium reigning on Roshar....? Nope, still don't agree with that interpretation

Hmm, I still think it makes more sense for the Broken One to refer to Odium, though I have no idea how he is broken.

I was thinking of what these Spiritual aspects actually mean. Connection might be a result of the fact that all of time-space is one in the Spiritual. But yeah I can also see it being grouped with Identity, doesn't really seem all that mutually exclusive. I mean we do see that one's land of origin is also part of their Connection. Ah Fortune, I don't think it has to with any temporal shenanigans, otherwise there'd be so many questions. Futuresight has always been expressed mathematically, as calculations of probability not as exploitation of all time being one. I don't think that's what Brandon meant by that comment, otherwise time travel would be possible in the Cosmere, the Spiritual would be the Beyond since within it, the past or the future wouldn't be any different than the present and all possibilities would exist: boom! Multiverse! Think of that comment in terms of the time-Space Continuum though, and it makes sense.

I should also clarify my comment about retrocognition, specifically in relation to gold Allomancy. My quibble here is the same as my quibble with the term 'teleportation', that gold Allomancy isn't exactly showing the past. It seems more connected to Identity, showing an alternate version of oneself, if they had taken a different path. It took me a while to sort out Brandon's comment about time and space being one in the Spiritual. I was immediately thinking wait what? It took me a while to connect it to time-space continuum As for the Broken One referring to Adonalsium, what do you make of the full phrase though, "Three of the Sixteen ruled, now the Broken One reigns"?

I mean if it was just the choking thing they had to fake then there's multiple options: the Knights Radiant could do it, a gold or cadmium Ferring could do it. But cessation of lifesigns? Only Kandra could fake it so well

Hmm... add the Spiritual aspects of Fortune, Connection and Identity. The first two might just be due to time and space being one in the Spiritual and the latter might have to do with Spiritwebs

I don't know... those might be present events, clairvoyance and heightened awareness The "our homes become their homes" could also refer to the events taking place now, in reverse But agreed, I too think that retrocognition is definitely possible within the Cosmere

Err... complicated. Technically they are made of cremlings... now. But the hordelings, which is the term for describing the creatures, were bred to be like cremlings, which is very general word on Roshar to begin with. The Sleepless can breed them till they evolve to more closely resemble critters from other Shardworlds.

The reason why the theory exists and why someone asked that to Brandon is because multiple things lined up: both Autonomy and Odium meddle in other worlds, both Bavadin and Rayse are disliked by Hoid, Dominion and Devotion sound like the opposites of Autonomy and Odium, that Odium probably had help fighting against two Shards rather than soloing them, the Mistborn era 2 newspaper clipping "vote for passion, vote for freedom" etc. Just check out the discussion threads Yes, any alliance with Odium would be tenuous where both parties would be checking their backs and rightfully so but again, Rayse personally knew the other Vessels, an alliance doesn't need to be help, just expressed support or defense, politicking basically. We do see that with Endowment and Patji, who supported Odium's killings and applauded his initiative Odium can see enough to paint the broad strokes at least, after all till he encountered Honor and Cultivation on Roshar, he had successfully Splintered three Shards, one of whom is Ambition who sounds like she'd have had a much better futuresight than him It is a death rattle, fuelled by Moelach, who is noted to provide futuresight and is probably the reason why Rosharans, the Vorin in particular, have so many cultural hang-ups regarding making predictions. To note, Adonalsium's Shattering is a past event, not a future event. I don't see how or why Moelach's influence would result in a death rattle about the Shattering. We haven't seen any examples of retrocognition in the Cosmere yet either. I think narratively, the Broken One referring to Odium just sounds stronger. But yes, the thoughts regarding Odium's various troubles is definitely something I agree with.

You are right! The Farkeeper moons do seem to depict greens on blues! The atmosphere idea also pans out. I'm not so sure about Coronach though, it looks like it might just be the shading and it looks turquoise rather than blue and green to me.

Possible... Let's go back to what would need to happen in order for Shardplate to be made of lesser spren. There would need to be a Bond with the Radiant (or possibly the Nahel spren) as well as bonding with one another. The bond sworn by the Radiant might be temporary, re-sworn each time they wish to summon their plate or a general bond that simply makes them worthy of Shardplate which attracts the nearby secondary spren to form their plate or a specific bond to a specific group of lesser spren. From what we have seen of plate, they don't seem as alive as Shardblade, though that might be because they are not sapient, but also note that they should be dead, yet Shardplate reforms when broken.

That doesn't address the issue I raised. Where were these spren when Jasnah and Shallan formed and dismissed their plate ? (if that is indeed what we saw)

Sazed is too kind, Rashek hated Alendi from the beginning, preached Terris superiority for their access to Feruchemy, burned the population of Scadrial aside from those at the pole, turned the Terrismen who disagreed with him into Mistwraith, turned the population that didn't support him into skaa. He is a "good man" in that he did what he did to delay an existential threat, he was possibly further corrupted by Ruin but he still murdered Alendi, was a noted xenophobe and Terris supremacist and did the transformations while still holding Preservation's power at the Well of Ascension. The knowledge of Hemalurgy may have been granted to him during this, but he was still himself when he chose to turn his companions into mindless beasts. Ruin could have whispered to him while he held the power of Preservation but not anything more than that. The later cruelties and stagnation of the Final Empire may have been due to Ruin's influence and a result of holding Preservation's power respectively but Rashek was still a complete d*ck.

They are cremlings, technically. The Dysian Aimians or Sleepless are hive mind creatures whose bodies are made of small cremling-like creatures that they specifically breed.

Autonomy is theorized to be allied to Odium though she probably has various contingencies I think 'The Broken One' refers to whatever happened to make him stuck on Braize As for other Shards' response to Odium's actions: the Oathbringer letters speak volumes. The Shards are either ignorant of the danger or uncaring. Odium knew the original Vessels and has access to Fortune so it makes sense that he can maneuver himself to have some defenses in case of any accusations, that he was going after those who broke the non-interference pact (no idea about Uli Da, though Edgli at least, didn't seem to like her, possibly due to her being a Sho Del). Brandon has said that Odium is allied to one or more Cosmere power(s).

Yup, in Edgedancer Arclo the Sleepless told Lift that the ancient Radiants counted them among their allies. Burning heaps of cremlings are mentioned in both the Prelude by Kalak and in Dalinar's vision. So they definitely fought in the Desolations.

Yup, found this WoB: I wonder though which ability of the fish that @Hakedohn mentioned is fictitious and which one is real, assuming that only one of them is real. I think both might be real Cultivation is supposed to have better futuresight, and "the clouds" might be referring to something other than normal clouds: the Highstorms or a peek into the Spiritual. There's also the mention of the fish being lucky. Sounds like Fortune. Curing aching joints also sounds easy enough for Investiture to do. But only joints? Only for a month? There is the fact that this seems to be the more common usage among the Purelakers: but this could go either way, it could be an often-practiced superstition with resulting placebo effect or the fish might simply be medicinal.

the Scadrians who starved under the Deepness, and those who survived to watch, terrified out of their minds, the very land beneath their feet shift and the sun grow terribly hot till they burned alive when Rashek moved Scadrial, the Terrismen who got turned into Mistwraiths, the skaa rebels who were executed publicly or subjected to Hemalurgy or chose to run to the edge of the Empire into the burning lands the skaa who got killed for disrupting a party, after getting raped by a noble, to be made an example of publicly, overworked on the plantations, killed for being born with Allomancy all the Rosharans who died in the millenia of Desolations: human, Singer or Aimian; all the Radiants ever hunted down by Nale including Ym The conscripts of Roshar's Desolations and countless conflicts, Scadrial's soldiers & conscripts during and after the rise & fall of the Final Empire. Dox, Clubs, Goradel, Reen, Zane the Dula who lost their lives in the fall of their government and subsequent takeover by Fjorden The Threnodites The Returned who are asked to die again; the drabs who suffer from depression and choose to end it Leras who watched as his children died, whose own death was dragged on for millenia, finally dying alone Ati who lost his mind and died unmourned First of the Sky and all other Trappers of the Pantheon

Welcome to the Shard, @Rome! I hope too many things weren't spoiled for you. Be careful on the Mistborn threads, I'd suggest putting your questions on Cosmere Q&A and specifically mentioning that you've only completed the Mistborn era 1 books

Huh, I've only ever seen predicting the remaining Shards theories using the 16 Metals model or what might be considered as godly attributes. Hmm... the Ten Heralds/Radiant Orders/Essences model contains 10 (or 20) rather than 16 characteristics. Regardless, intriguing work, @Halyo_Alex!

But it came to pass that the song ended, as did the thread and verily, Honorless won.

Nilto?

I do recognize Shallan's situation actually and I like her as a character. I am only considering her from a relationship viewpoint here, however, and I do not think she is ready for it. Me and @Michael Marssen have talked about her situation before: I do recognize Shallan's uplifting nature, I'm also unwilling to disregard her selfish, mocking nature. I like her as a character but as a person, she is not ready for a relationship.

Huh, I didn't see it that way. To note, I do think that lesser spren are involved in the process, just that the plates don't need to be made of them. Intriguing solution to bonding lesser spren for plate, I must say, and that is one of my main quibbles with that theory. That being said, what of Jasnah & Shallan's Thaylen City scene though? Where Adolin sees geometric patterns around Jasnah and Radiant turns out to be the real Shallan with possibly real plate? Where were the lesser spren? Also if plates are made of lesser spren, would they use different spren each time or use the same set of spren every time? So temporary bonds each time they form a plate or a few lesser spren also following them around? The former seems more likely with this theory... Strange questions crop up with this theory, I think Brandon is keeping plates away for this long for a reason and that they are not this straightforward. Also I do think that getting Shardplate would be more related to Nahel Bond than the system of Surgebinding itself since the Heralds don't seem to have Shardplate equivalent, do point out if I just missed it.