Mandamon

Hi all, I sent out the first chapter of something I've started working on (Title pending...I call it "Physical Magic" for now), but can't seem to get into. I like the concept of the story, but I think something's wrong. It's up to you to tell me what!

I'd like to jump in for next week as well. I've got a new piece I'm working on and I need people to tell me what's wrong with it.

I was asking where the grey-haired man was, as well as what his connection with the story was. So I guess a plus and a minus. On action: I've had to re-write this section about three times because I can't quite put my finger what I'm seeing. This is my best guess: You do have action, but I think it may be action without support. Every scene should be doing (at least) double duty in relation to the story. So while you have action-y things, none of them get Rose closer to the Manticore. Most of them are done to her, rather than her doing them. And when she's thinking about the Manticore, she's sitting in Angeltown or stalled in a shed for the night. Maybe take a look at the story and ask whether each scene is actively keeping Rose away from her goal and what she's (actively) doing to batter down that obstacle. So my investment in the book is, I want to see Things Happen to the main character, and how she struggles against adversity. Right now she isn't struggling, but sort of going with the flow while you describe the cool things that are going on.

I think this chapter could be rolled into the last one as a "Rose meets the hillfolk" arc and then hopefully goes hunting for the Manticore next week. I liked the descriptions and how Prince explained their past, but I do have to say it was again a little slow. I'll agree the hillfolk shouldn't be trusting, but I can see how they would want to make amends for rash action, especially if done by an errant boy. They're untrusting, but also have a lot of pride. I took the crossbow lesson/giving as the reparation for the attack. Even though chapter 4 was only a page long, it held my attention better because there was more action. That said, it was a little confusing (where is the gray-haired man, what is his connection to the story, why is he talking to Maximiliano, and why is the waiter not moving?). I like the feel of the story overall, but at this point, as a reader, I'm ready for something to happen to reward my investment in the book.

Yep, I can see that now. If it helps, I didn't like when Stephen King did it either...

I had a similar response to yankarro. I didn't have as much problem with some of the passive or descriptive sentences, but I agree with what was said. pg 3: "'No worries, boss.' " --this seems anachronistic. Not sure if it really is. pg 4: Oh no! A Manticore! You and Yankarro might have to fight... Manticore-o a Manticore-o. I also assumed the girl picked his pocket, but you never confirm. Otherwise her appearance doesn't do much. Again, good description in this one. You lay out Rome very well. The biggest detractor in this chapter is the lack of action. Most of the first half is taken up with Varus' reaction to seeing Rome, then the second half he stands around being let into the Cadmius home. There isn't much opportunity for conflict, nor do we see Varus doing anything proactive. The action that does happen, i.e. the girl and the old priest, don't seem to add anything. We learn a little about the Torc through the priest's actions, but nothing that couldn't be told elsewhere. Overall, this chapter seems to be setting us up for later, but it may be that by the time you get to "later" you find this chapter could have been cut and the information interspersed into other chapters.

pg 1: "It was likely best that the angel lacked a digestive tract; the urge to vomit was overwhelming." --yes, this is for humor, but if the angel lacks a digestive tract, then it could not even have an urge to vomit... pg 1: You're hiding the name/gender of the angel or it doesn't have one, but there are a lot of repetitions of "the angel." You might want to find some other word. "It" can be used for something you don't know about. (And you do use "it" later) Otherwise, I like it. It's always hard to present the morals of an alien being (whether it's elves, or angels, or actual aliens) and I thought this one went well. I haven't seen "There will be Blood," but I liked that the angel was a physical presence, rather than insubstantial, and that it was very factually relating to God, rather than through religious means. Having this before the first chapter also gets the reader ready that there is something magical/supernatural going on, where in the first chapter, Elmer only walks into a bar and then goes to sleep. It lets us know to Wait For It and see what comes later.

Ha HA! I guess great minds thinking alike and all that. yankorro, now that I've told you my opinions... I would also be careful (or at least aware) about taking advice only from one subset of readers. We all tend to think pretty alike in these reviews, quoting things from Writing Excuses. Your writing particularly seems to have a lot of Spanish and Latin influences (I think you mentioned you taught English in Barcelona) and puts me more in the mind of some of the magical realism influences from Latin America--I'm specifically thinking 100 Years of Solitude. I guess my point is, while I still think you need more action and need to cut parts where nothing happens, there is a section of literature close to what you write. Don't mold yourself to the "mainstream" just because that's what the rest of us tell you. Your description is very poetic and captivating, and I can read it just based on that, even if nothing is really happening. In real life, things happen sometimes without a sense of closure afterward. If that's what you're aiming at, go for it. Hopefully I haven't completely confused everyone now...

Overall, I liked it, and I'm interested to read more. The descriptions of the time period are convincing, and you have a good grasp of what tools and weapons are being used and why. I did have a problem with the Roman names. Since there are three for each character, and they tend to run together with lots of "...us" names, I had a hard time telling them apart. Add to this that you use Varus' middle name and Murena's last name, and I get even more confused. Why would Varus not use his first name when thinking about himself? I don't know a whole lot about Roman names... Also, on pg 6: Would the Gauls be able to get out of spear range by turning and running? I like the strategy, but does this mean Varus told them to throw too soon? I'm interested to see the magic system and what meaning the iron torc has, as well as what healing magic they have. I got the impression Varus was very badly wounded, but we never really find out exactly how (unless it's covered later). Looking forward to more!

I really liked the poetic description and setting of this chapter, but that was about all it was. Rose hits the road, and then...? There's just not a lot happening in this chapter. The only action to further the plot happens in the last three paragraphs. It may just be me being impatient, but I keep seeing missed opportunities (or a la Writing Excuses, "Broken Promises") for action. You've got a couple in this one: The forest ranger. You set up that you need a key, you set up a guard against getting to the refuge, and then Rose breezes past both with a smile and a nod. You also set up the smile and nod, which I like, but it still seems too easy and I wonder why Prince even bothered to mention the key. The villagers. She goes out to find information, and gets driven away from several villages. If you're not going to follow through on those interactions, I'd cut them down to "The Hillfolk were unfriendly." Afterward, the men attack, who I suppose might also be Hillfolk? But they are the only ones forcing Rose to act, or react. Aside from that, it's mostly her observing the world.

I also thought the writing was good, and you do give a good sense of imagery, but I thought it was a little slow to start. There just isn't much exciting happening. A man walks into a bar (sounds like the start of a joke), is greeted by surly townsfolk, then goes to sleep. No reason yet to be curious as to Elmer's story. It could be any of a thousand Spaghetti Westerns, or post-apocalyptic worlds. A couple notes: Pg1 "Elmer couldn’t blame her caution" --Who's caution? You haven't introduced any females yet. You have a few phrases that read oddly to me--enough to pop me out of reading for a moment: sounded like the mating call of glass paper fingering and stroking his mass of facial hair in a way that was almost erotic reserved for grandmothers and especially precocious felines.

Akobel: Thanks a bunch! On YA vs. adults: Wow, that never even crossed my mind, but I see exactly what you mean. Not sure what to do about it, as it turned out to sort of be the "theme" of the work. I can hope that some teenagers are deep enough to see some of the meaning behind it. If not, I hope it would at least be enjoyable and they would recognize the character actions as something that might happen to them. I will certainly keep that in mind. The ending: Yes, totally agree again. I think this needs some more editing for clarity and consistency. Probably also some expansion so it doesn't feel as rushed. I think I did do a quick check on aneurisms, but I will look again to make sure. Maybe it needs a different wording. Town vs the world: I think this is the biggest editing point for me. I originally intended most of the mutations to be very small, except for the early bus crew (or at least no one else realizes what they have) but it expanded as I wrote. Intending this for YA, I cast the adults as ignoring what they couldn't understand (and thus not alerting journalists), but again, it got away from me. I want to keep the story inside the town and focussed on characters rather than repercussions, so I'll have to work on a way to explain how the mutations didn't get out of hand. Hmmm. Maybe Nira will have a side business dealing with stole goods... Did the two thugs in the Pizza parlor set you thinking about out of town influences and crime, or were you already thinking of it? Also, were there any parts you particularly enjoyed, or particularly hated?

I'd second Two McMillion that the intro is not for everyone. I think you could edit it to make it stronger, but you could just as easily jump into the action. Second, in regards to the voice in this piece, it might be worthwhile to write a page or so only in the voice of the narrator. Right now, he's the straight man, and you (the author) are telling the jokes in the description and worldbuilding. I think if you switch this around, it will gain a lot of strength. Last, I would watch your description. The story is getting overshadowed by your asides, humorous or not. I can best show this by example, so please forgive the editing! I took the first paragraph, and only deleted the asides that, to me, took away from the story. I did change one phrase, just to make it keep the same meaning. Original: "Everyone has a story, however boring it may be. Generally, the boring stories aren't told, of course. When they are, nobody wants to hear them. My name is Righor. My last name not even I know, so I prefer using my dragon's last name. Yes, you read that correctly. Dragon. I am a DragonBound, one of the many (although not exactly abundant) people on this world whom have a dragon with which we can Bind. I tell stories. Telling stories is my life, and not only metaphorically. I don't have any other job, although sometimes I am payed for helping people in various ways. The very beginning of this story takes place when I accidentally ran into someone. "Sorry," I muttered. I kept my head down, covered by my blue and green cloak." Edited to remove asides: "Everyone has a story. My name is Righor. My last name not even I know, so I prefer using my dragon's last name. I am a DragonBound, one of the people on this world whom have a dragon with which we can Bind. I tell stories. Telling stories is my life, and not only metaphorically. this story [starts] when I accidentally ran into someone. "Sorry," I muttered. I kept my head down, covered by my blue and green cloak." The new version is a little choppy, because I was only deleting, but this is what I mean by removing asides. Now the intent is much stronger: you have 1) reason for the story 2) introduction 3) the start of the story. The reader doesn't get lost going from point A to point B. This same editing can be applied to the whole first chapter, and I think you'll come out with a much clearer, and stronger, story.

I guess either "you're welcome" or "I'm sorry" depending on how you want to take it. I was also reminded of that other interlude while reading. I think it does tie in with what Two McMillion said about the pace. I'm struggling with the same thing in my writing. You don't have to cover every minute. If nothing happens for an hour, or a day, or even a week, just say so, and get to the next plot point. You can always come back later and fill in if you do think of something cool that happens in between.

Yes, still send your chapters through the usual emails. This thread is just for reading through complete works and giving overall feedback, rather than doing a chapter-by-chapter analysis. We've been keeping the full works in a shared Dropbox folder, so we don't clutter up the forum and/or email.

pg 6: She's carrying a syringe in her pocket? I assume it has some sort of cap? pg 7: going to Dante's and then leaving doesn't seem to accomplish anything. I understand how Prince explains it, but narrative-wise, it doesn't make a lot of sense, and I would have to file this under a boring part, because now I feel like the last couple pages were wasted. pg 8: If I heard a woman scream in the next room of a hotel, my first instinct would not be to knock on the door, especially if it wasn't answered the first time. Also especially if the screaming stopped after a while. I'll qualify this with; you don't say what sort of screaming it was. Frightened? Scared? In pain? Having a good time? If it was a blood-curdling scream like she was being murdered, then it's more likely I'd at least alert the front desk, even if I wasn't going to barge in on a potential murderer (being a young woman of some sort). Chapters: There's no real rhyme or reason to chapters. In fact, W.E. just had an episode dealing with it: 8.41. I think of them more as start to end of a mini-story in the larger story. If this is how long it takes to get there, go for it. Info-dump: I noted it, but wasn't annoyed by it. I think it worked well for establishing some context. That said, it's always better to do it piecemeal and include more in the way of description. You did well to paint a picture of the western town, but if you could include other details taken from the history--maybe a half-torn poster of General Pombo, or something like that--it would reduce the amount of info-dump you need to do. World Building: You also speak of fantastic creatures, but none are in evidence in the town. A Manticore exists somewhere, but they still use horses. Are they still what we would consider horses? I'm thinking of the Fallout universe, where two-headed brahmin cows are the norm, instead of the exception.

I also like the second version better. It establishes an interesting character quickly, and later gives you setting information as to where they're traveling and that they are on a train. Part of this depends on who the main character is. I assume it's the girl, but both intros are written from the grey man's POV, so I'm not sure. The girl exits at the end. The first version (in my mind) establishes the man as the focal character because it introduces him, on the train, listening to the girl. The second version introduces the girl immediately, so I would be less surprised if you suddenly switch to her POV after this, even if this is from the man's POV. As it's titled "Manticore Rose," I assume the girl is going to play a big part, therefore the second version is probably better. I am interested in the subject enough to read more. I'm not sure yet where the setting is, but you have a train and a dusty wasteland, and talk about institutions like we have, so my first thought is the US southwest. It could still be either fantasy or scifi, either on Earth or somewhere else. I agree with Mysty that the POV is a little confusing in the first one. Totally missed the reference to horses and Mescalero. That makes me lean more toward alternate Earth. Could be steampunk, but not necessarily. I suppose the horses could be keeping up if the train is slowing down?

I'm up in the air this year. I did NaNo successfully the last two years, but wasn't going to this year. Then I happened to first, get to a stopping place with current projects and second, already have half an outline complete for a new book, as well as the first 10k words written. And I seem to have the time available in November to write 1667 words a day. I think I'll sign up, keep track of my words, and see what happens. I don't like the extra editing that goes into the aftermath of NaNo, but if I have a good outline, I might be able to get the wordcount per day without too much extra fluff creeping in. As for strategies, I strongly advise having a pretty thorough outline, as well as good character profiles created before you start. Then you can type without worrying about thinking of what comes next too much.

Thanks for the comments so far! I've thought about cutting one of the first two reactions, so thanks for the confirmation on that. I've left the adult's reaction vague on purpose--sort of the "dumb adult" syndrome. But I don't want it to take you out of the story. I'll look into making it more believable. Your other questions (I think) get answered. Let me know what you think later in the book (also about your guess for the ending). Thanks again!

I think the title is pretty fitting for this piece as-is. I agree with the main point the others brought up. There's a lot in here, for being such a short piece. Consequently, everything feels rushed. You hit all the right plot points for a novellette or even novel: Setting, an overwhelming foe, someone in danger, Checkov's gun, the big weapon--which fails, then the twist and the real triumph over evil. However it's 2 pages long, so it's almost like a synopsis of a longer piece, and you have to go directly from one setup to the next. I was also confused as to why his own hair worked. "And then he knew. The one thing that was stronger than war, stronger than age. That had kept him going all this time." And then you go into him using his hair, but don't actually answer the question. What was the one thing? You list his strength, determination, and hope, but that's three things and fairly generic. We don't know enough about him to say he's especially strong or hopeful. Also, why did his son get cured and he didn't, at the end? Wouldn't killing the crow cure both of them? Last, on the Phoenix feather. I thought of HP as well, but you could as well say you think of Gandalf when you hear the word "Wizard." It's a mythical bird and you used its properties correctly, so I don't see a problem. If you had more worldbuilding you would have more chance to really make it your own. How did he get the feather? Where do Pheonixes (Phoenixii?) live? Lots you can do with this one.

Two McMillion: Sure. Are you on Dropbox? If not, you can sign up through this link (it gets me free space): https://db.tt/MQ7OQ3x If you already have Dropbox, just send me a PM with your email and I'll add you in. There's a lot of other good stuff in there to read, including Akobel's work Shrouds.

Thanks to you both! I know NaNo is coming up, as well as the usual real world problems. I don't think I'm doing NaNo this year (even though this piece came out of it last year) because the next work I'm going to start lends itself more to slow and deliberate writing rather than all-out-as-many-words-as-possible-a-day. But who knows. I'll note my words per day and see how far I get! Anyway, thanks again, and I look forward to comments.

Hello again. I might be working on credit here, but I have one other work I need alpha readers for. I've put my NaNoWriMo work from 2012 in the Alpha Readers folder. It's called, "It's Not My Fault!" and is a 70k YA book about a small Midwest town where the teenagers stop getting acne, but start developing superpowers. I'm hesitantly saying this turned out better than I thought, so I need some others to read and deflate my ego, if necessary! Let me know if you're interested in reading in the next month or so. As always, I'm willing to read and critique for others in return.

One correction. pg 1: "they would find some way of maintaining their sanity." they/their -> it/its. You're still talking about "the mind" This is well written, but I'm not sure of the point of the story. There isn't really a plot--it's more a description of a man imprisoned who is then punished. In the end, it doesn't matter whether he's guilty or not, because you haven't given him the choice. It's a description of his punishment. The same piece could end with Salim kicking and screaming his way, or going without a word. He gets 39 lashes. I think I have the same concerns with this one as on "The Gravemaker:" It's an interesting piece of writing, maybe as an exercise, but it needs to tie into something greater to have a purpose. There is the one phrase at the end that hints Al-Siddiqah might have been at fault, or both of them were, but that still doesn't affect the piece. Could Salim have called out and accused her? Would it have done anything if he did? It depends on the context. If this is a Mid-Eastern culture where women have less rights, maybe he could have freed himself by speaking against her (I don't know). If it's set in a fantasy world in a matriarchal society, probably not. We need more context to know.

Also, now I need to get a deck of Decktet cards. They look awesome and I just lost about 45 minutes reading about them.