Mandamon

Robinski, thanks for the feedback on these 5 chapters. I'm stepping back from this one currently to do an outline for the second book of Seeds of Dissolution, and because this one was just not working for me--still not sure why. I do want to get back to it, because I like the world, so I'm planning to take all this feedback and figure out how to fix it! Everyone has helped a lot.

I'll third jParker's and andyk's comments. You are giving a little too much away with the setup, and more than that the setup is taking waaay to long. I think in part it's because you are describing it from too many POV's (as I might have mentioned before...) and it's drawing out the plot a la Robert Jordan. Even he only had 3 or 4 POVs in Eye of the World. Saffen's getting lost in the bustle, as she's not as directly connected with the events, and you're writing from about 6 levels of hierarchy in the Brekian kingdom: Vekalik -> Kavyelan -> Damiel -> Lenal -> Teiman -> Marnar. I keep mentally losing sight of who Kaveylan is, so I think I hit my limit for remembering what's going on. In editing, I would cut that down to just 3 POVs: Vekalik at the top, Marnar at the bottom, and Damiel as the magic user, in the middle. That way you can also have fun taunting the reader with events that occur around them, but we have to figure out.

First, welcome to Reading Excuses! On to the comments... I thought this was well written technically, and the plot was consistent throughout. I could tell enough of the worldbuilding in the little hints you dropped to get a feeling for what was going on, even if you didn't have a lot of description for that and for the magic system. I do agree with Andyk about the ending. I got the impression that Jorani was smiling because she passed her magic on to the smuggler's girl, but you never really say that. This is a personal preference, but I don't really like reading present tense. It often comes across as overdramatic, which I think happens here a little, and some of the descriptions come off strange. For example: pg 2: "Jorani stops by a tree for a moment, just a moment. She presses her forehead to the trunk and pants. Fingers reach up and brush at the corners of her eyes, but she has no tears to give. " --I first thought she was somehow pressing her forehead to what she was wearing on her legs (as it would have been 'panted' in past tense). Also, I'm assuming that's her fingers that are reaching up, and not someone else's. My biggest problem is that we don't really get into Jorani's head. I see from the description that her humming leads to silvery vision, but I have no idea why because I'm not in her head, where it would be easy to give an explanation. You then have to do a lot of telling, and the story comes across as almost lacking in emotion, even though you are telling me about how Jorani is crying, and running, and wishing she wasn't doing what she's doing. This is a very emotional story, but comes across as a little mechanical simply because of the way its narrated. To me, being inside the character's head is much more personal. Especially for such a bleak ending, you could then have her think of what will come next, even though her part in this is over.

Seems like this one has ben picked over a bit already. I agree with the comments about Emily and the hidden object--it distracted me too. I have some specific comments below: pg 2: "Even though he was twice as tall as her" --really? I'm imagining the combinations: She's 3ft tall, he's 6ft. She's 4.5 feet tall, he's 9 feet...etc. pg 3: "yellow collars" --I had to look this one up. Evidently it is someone who works in a creative field, contrary to a white- or blue-collar. Never heard of this before and I'm guessing most others haven't either. pg 8: "The Historian's voice was deep and cheesy" --sorry, but this just makes me think of a pizza. There's a couple loose POVs in the Jester's section again. I presume this is from the Jester's POV, as that's the title of the section, but things like: "He couldn't think of the right word so he just waved it away." (referring to the Historian) "The Historian knew the Professor would have stopped listening to..." are not really from the Jester's POV. and on the other side: "the Jester said, sounding overly sincere. " makes it seem like the reader is out of the Jester's head, listening to him, rather than in his head, seeing and hearing what he hears. The Sappihre's location is a bit of a white room. I"m not sure where it is, and is Kara near them, or are they just observing her somewhere else? pg 14: "after a long silence that would have been awkward under other circumstances." --was it not awkward here? You put a lot of effort into saying that the Jester finds the Historian foolish and stupid. Most of it ends up as "tell" rather than show. If the reader can't pick that up from the subtext, I'd cut it. Instead work to show how the Jester feels about the Historian.

I thought this was a very good chapter, and I continue to be impressed with Cadmia's storyline. The use of magic is imaginative, and I like the descriptions of using the totem to get the attention of the god to make a pact. How does this tie in with Cadmia making a pact with Diana? I recall that being a lot more informal. Was it the same kind of pact, or just a difference between gods? I felt like Nurya gave in too easily to Cadmia's pettiness and want for instant gratification, though I can understand why both from Nurya's social position, and in helping Cadmia to learn for herself. On the other hand, maybe this would be better as a try/fail? Cadmia might not be completely successful the first time. Every time Nurya cautioned her, Cadmia figured out the right solution immediately. Is it always so easy to make a deal with a god?

No--I'm in the US. Just have to visit Leicester every once in a while for work!

Hope everything's ok. I was over in Leicester on the M1 last week for business and saw all the flooding you guys are having. Try not to float away!

I have notes below from before I read the other comments. Having read them, I do agree with the passiveness, and it's similar to what I'm saying. I think this chapter could probably be half as long and keep up the tension a lot better. ----- pg 1-2: There's a lot of slow plodding along at the beginning of this chapter--could be shortened a little (see further notes below) pg 3: some confusion here. I missed at first that there was another walker on the road because you then say the road was empty a few lines later. Also, you say Marnar heard the wagon, but then a few lines later say he couldn't hear the wagon at this distance. then later: "Marnar didn’t turn to see what choice the man made" "A quick glance back told him he wouldn’t make it " --wouldn't he see the man, then? pg 5, mid: repetition of "the distance" pg 6, nitpick: "None of the superiors...WERE alive" pg 8: feels a little backwards on the description of the general. You say there's nothing remarkable in his appearance and he exudes an air of command. Then in the next paragraph, you have Marnar take in what the general looks like. I'm wondering if it should be the other way around. Also, he leaves, so it's not really "this" conversation, is it? pg 10: "The Bloody Hand of Brekia, slayer of kings." --ahh...good work there. I hadn't pieced that he was the one we saw in the prologue before now. Surprising, yet inevitible. pg 11: last paragraph, a bit of a loose POV. You're describing what the general sees, not Marnar. pg 14: Another new POv. I'm watching you... I thought at first Lenal was the general, but I think he's one of Kavyelan's guards? pg 16: seems like you're switching POVs between Lenal and Kavyelan? The first half of this chapter is a few moments of action when Teiman captures Marnar, but mostly us hearing passively about Marnar's tiredness or pain. I think this ties in with my question from chapter 2 of why he let Marnar run in the first place. He could have captured him then and saved the effort to chase him down later. We're now 4 chapters in and I'm not sure how many POVs. I'm starting to get lost from story to story, simply because you're switching between each one, and then adding more in. I can keep Marnar and Saffen straight, but then there's the stuff with both kings, and Damiel,and probably some others I'm forgetting. I'm not sure I'll remember what they're doing when you get back to them. I'm still enjoying it, but something is going to have to happen soon.

This has some potential, and I'm interested enough to read more. The biggest things I see are lots of telling, instead of showing. I also agree with andyk on infodumping. The ones I saw were on page 4: most of the page, page 7: mid page, page 11, and page 13. You actually get more reader interest by plopping something strange in front of them, and then outlining the general meaning while event occur rather than pre-loading information so they know what's going on. The "cast in a movie" comparisons were also kind of weird. The dialogue is a little stilted. I think some parts may be too formal for the characters that are saying them. You can streamline a little by taking out "he said"-isms when you have that character doing an action: "Why am I not surprised to find you here?" the Historian asked, turning to the Jester. -> "Why am I not surprised to find you here?" The Historian turned to the Jester. “Would you care for some tea?” the Jester asked, with a smile. He gestured for Maria to bring the Historian a cup. -> “Would you care for some tea?” The Jester, with a smile, gestured for Maria to bring the Historian a cup. A couple inconsistencies: pg 2: "Then, at that very same moment," --it would be the next moment, if you've used "then" pg 7: "Too bad it would be another half-hour before Jaime and his team could retreat. They had to wait until it was safe for them to slip between dimensions again, otherwise they could kill themselves." --Then why didn't they go with Mu'pe? I presume there's a reason, but I didn't catch it.

I'm certainly pulled in by the first chapter. Even though the reader knows almost nothing of the POV character's description--even gender--you've shown how this person operates and how clever he/she is. Very Sherlock-esque in deduction, with magic thrown in. There isn't much description of anything but people, but the dialogue, or monologue, is almost rich enough to make up for it. I'd like a little more detail of where the main character meets up with Eril. Still no name to the main character by the end of chapter 2. I'm guessing it's a male (from "oaf"), but I could be wrong. Overall, this is very good, and intriguing. I want to read more to find out more about the main character. Looking back, he/she seems to find Lord Rolondo by accident, so I'm not sure where this is going yet, except that the murderer is the next target, to get the ten bottles of aether. I'm willing to read a few more chapters to find out what else is going on in this story. I didn't have any problem with the pacing, and you paint very effective character descriptions, solely with their actions and words. Looking forward to more!

pg 3: "Karus however made his way to his office to send messages to the eight Knights of Brekia." -A bit of loose POV here. The last sentence sounds like it's from Karus' POV rather than Vekalik. Should it be on the other side of the break? Pg 3: Not sure if Karus' POV was even necessary. It's pretty short and covers him doing things we would expect a major-domo to do, so I'm not sure it adds anything. pg 8: I'm not sure about each of the council having their own introductory paragraph. At first, I was wincing to see a page of this, as it's sort of heavy-handed, but by the end I kind of liked it. So take it as you will. I'm wondering if this might end cut out in an eventual edit with the introductions done as the members speak. Also do they share the name of their county/city? Or is it named after them? Or vice versa? pg 10: sort of an infodump about Husa, and how it's unlikely they would attack. Again, could be handled within the conversation. You reveal much better reasons here for Gjurd leaving Saffen. I wonder if this would be better combined with the previous section so it doesn't feel so sudden? I'm still enjoying this, although this section was a little slower. I liked Saffen's POV better than King Vekalik, as his section was sort of rambling compared with the previous ones. Most of it was infodump-ish about the war efforts, although there was some good character building for the king--especially the violin-playing section. There were lots of place-names thrown around, and I don't have the map in front of me, so I was a little lost. I trust it's all building up to something, though. Looking forward to all the action in Chapter 4!

pg 1: Heston might be pretty naive, but it takes a special kind of stupid to ask someone with "the look of a coiled snake waiting for the opportunity to strike" to sit down because he looks out of place... Especially as he DOES seem to know what Tarrito is capable of. pg 3: "They walked straight to the bar, talking loudly and jesting with Heston." --This seemed off, I think because you haven't moved Tarrito out of scene yet (the next sentence) and I'm imagining a bunch of farmers trying to jest with the innkeep's son around the evil-looking assassin sitting at the bar talking to him. They would be asking questions first. I'm not sure why the guard puched out Heston. He answered his question, and pretty well, too. He has seen lots of strange people coming in the tavern. The guard captain's next question should be to narrow it down to the ones he's looking for, not incapacitate a good source of information. Did the guard see the foreign coins? You've said Heston could be killed for having them, but I don't know how well they might be recognized, flying through the air. Overall, it's still interesting, but Heston almost seems unnecessary at this point. The chapter could have been from Tarrito's POV just as easily, and with more detail about what was happening since he's trained. They've been planning whatever they're going to do for several chapters now. I'm ready for them to get on with it and show off what Tarrito and Galen are capable of.

The Goat and Robinski have covered most of the points, so I won't repeat. I liked this chapter a lot. It's always fun to play two characters off each other, and this one was no exception. You do a good job of bringing out Cadmia's naivete of what others think of her in contrast with her strength of will. Varus also gets to shine in proving his worth to Cadmia. one thing: pg 10 : 'Enough! How dare she speak of general Murena in this way?' -I don't think this is supposed to be in quotes While I liked your description of the red mist and what Vaus feels, this part felt sudden. You've hinted before at the wall of red mist and Varus trying to control it, but never this blatantly. Maybe if you had more of this sort of description earlier, like in the original confrontation with the priest, it wouldn't feel like a sudden change in how Varus (and the torc) works. A second for The Goat's observation skills! I missed that Cadmia would see the blood as well. I also thought throwing the coins was strange, but thought it was the action of a higher-class functionary to a lower-class person. I didn't have as much problem with Varus' mood swings, as I was pinning it on the Torc. I also didn't have any problem with Cadmia's reaction to getting rejected by the first few tutors.

Doh. Yes, you're right. I saw things in a row and my mind went to "ellipsis." I also didn't notice at first glance that there were 5 instead of 3. Maybe a different type of character to imply the end of a chapter? I agree with Andyk's assessment of Saffen and Gjurd. I also felt it was abrupt, but didn't really know what else was needed. I did like that it immediately sets her on the road to something new.

Alight I'll agree you only have three viewpoints in this chapter, but of them is still a new one . Right now, I don't have a problem with this--it's well done, but I'm interested to see how the book develops and whether there would be any confusion for the reader. Damiel's first POV on page 5 seems like it's almost from omniscient rather than limited. You describe Damiel from an outsider's view as he does magic for the children. After the children exit, it changes into more of a limited POV. His second POV on page 9 is definitely in limited. Again, I think I like Marnar and Teimen the best, although there wasn't as much substance this time. He meets Teiman, who bluffs, Marnar calls him, and then leaves. It felt a little anticlimactic, especially after stabbing Teiman in the hand last time. The chapter ends with an ellipsis. Was that intentional, or is this not the whole chapter? It does feel a little abrupt, perhaps because I'm expecting more of T&M's confrontation. Overall, very well done and still drawing me in. Looking forward to more (POVs?).

Well, you've got my attention with a map... There's a little bit of infodump on pages 5/6, which slows down the narrative a bit, but not terrible. pg 12: "had straggled beyond the limits of decency" -this made me laugh. Good writing, so I don't really have line editing comments, but here are first impressions on what I read: I'm not really sure the prologue qualifies as such, and not just a first chapter. The rest seems to flow directly from it, so there's not a big separation in time. Usually I think of prologues happening far in the past, or being characters slightly aside from the narrative, to give a larger world view. I'm certainly bought in to the story, and want to read more. There's some good intrigue, and even though there are a lot of POVs, you give opposing ones so that we see both sides (inside the head and from an observer), which I like a lot. The pace is good, and keeps interest going. There are 6 POVs in 2 chapters and there are even 2 in the prologue. Just from reading this little bit, this feels big, like 1000 pages big. I know you said this was 2/3 done at 80k, but with so many POVs starting out, it feels bigger. My biggest concern with that is that the narrative will bog down after a few chapters because we will have to keep up with too many people. Speaking of people, I think I might like Teimen the best, if only for shrugging off a stab wound through the hand. Marnar seems scary too, moving so fast, and I'm looking forward to seeing what they can do. I love the map, Which now I have to to reference every time you tell me a place name... Looks like a play off of Europe mainland, with Brekia and Svaringen taking the place of Italy. This sets my thoughts for what to expect in culture, though from reading, it seems a bit more Norse or German "barbarian" in context than Italian. That may not be what you're doing at all...just giving impressions of what my mind goes through when I see a map. I'm already invested in the characters, so good job there. Looking forward to more!

pg 2: "Orik signaled for Liaf to go let up the opposite staircase, while Orik went up this one." --a little awkward. Maybe "Orik went up the nearer one" Overall, it held my attention. You have a good tension in this piece of writing; better because it's short, and it makes the reader want to take part in the chase. I'm torn on whether I like Liaf or not. On the one hand, this reads almost as a side POV, with two guards chasing a thief. "Hey, what's that noise?" "Where'd the other guys go?" "Let's go chase something unknown into the darkness." It's a cliche, and you expect the guards to get picked off by the heroic thief, who might be Tarrito, based on what's known from chapter 1 on the other hand, and depending on what you do with the character, this could be a well-done reversal of the trope, but if that's what you want to do, I'd "hang a lantern" on the most obvious parts so the reader knows, and maybe even include the stereotypical references, like it's the senior guard's last week on the job, or Liaf just came from his father's fishing boat the other day and has wanted a job in the city guards his whole life. Then when/if he survives, it's a surprise to the reader. In summary, I'm not sure whether Liaf will be around much longer, so I can't invest in him as a main POV yet. This chapter doesn't give a whole lot of new information, except we see someone thieving and learn some about Liaf's backstory, which is the only thing making me think he's not going to be instantly killed off.

First some comments: pg 1: "The misery he had flouted" -maybe not the right word choice? Displayed? Exhibited? Revealed? pg 1: I assume you've done the research, but wouldn't they have slaves instead of servants? pg 3: top a little confusion here. Murena suddenly starts talking and you haven't said he was there, so he sort of appears out of the air. pg 5: I like the tie of magic to the gods. It describes their fickle nature very well, just as in the myths. I love that Cadmia has to haggle and barter to get access to what she needs. It adds a lot of constraints to the magic system, depending on the personality of the god, which is always good. An interesting chapter. It was a bit slow to start, but picked up a lot by the end, and made me like Cadmia a lot more. I now want to read more about her. You never really mention anything about pacts with the gods through Varus' POV. I assume he also knows of them, and so it's strange for it only to come up in the 4th chapter. That said, That part caught my attention the most so far. I agree with The Goat that the end was a little flat. I know it's a blow for Murena's reputation, of course, but it might be better to flesh out the Roman culture a little more and tell us why it's so big a blow.

Some notes made before reading the comments: At the beginning, Maxi seems very reluctant. Not sure if it's because it's been a while since I read the last chapter or something else, but why is he suddenly so sullen? Strange that the lock broke the first time a kid hit it, when a grown woman couldn't bash it with several hits. Maybe she "loosened it?" Also, she doesn't go after Maxi at all? Shades of Prince. Rose seems to have real trouble holding on to her friends. pg 2: "Her bones ached and her stomach cramped, and at night" --I guess she's sick now? It seemed to happen suddenly, as if it was connected to Maxi leaving for "plot," so she couldn't go after him. pg 2: "Prince was standing with his top hat and monocle firmly in place." --Aha! It's like Superman: Maxi and Prince are played by the same actor and are never seen in the same place! pg 3: Wait...what? Prince is also wondering about the sex slave thing (which I still don't believe), then he kisses her, then there are palm lines involved, then Rose is a prophet? I don't think any of these things have been mentioned before.... pg 4 and 5 seem to be more into the main plot of the book, and I'm on board with this part. pg 7: "Those people are absolutely, one-hundred-percent certifiably insane." --ah...they seem saner than the main characters and their random, rash actions. Most of my thoughts are in line with what everyone else is saying. I think the charge of insanity comes from one description somewhere that Rose was a little unstable. Plus, she was in prison for some reason, plus, she makes absolutely spur-of-the-moment decisions with seemingly no thought to what might happen afterward. Plus, she's chasing (not very well, imo) a mythical beast that no one else really believes in. Insane? If not, then signs point to at least partial bipolar disorder. No real problem with the Locust army. I think they'll generate some much needed action in the story. As for Alpha Readers, I agree with Robinski. If it's finished and you're looking for overall feedback on the rest of the arc, go for it (I'm guessing we're at least half done anyway). If you want more specific comments how each chapter works, the weekly submission is better. Although in my experience, having posted several chapters of several books, after a point, the chapter-wise feedback isn't as helpful because you start getting the same comments (good description, too little action, Rose is crazy, she made a strange decision...) and readers can't see the overall plot for the individual nitpicking in the chapters.

Part of the reason I'm not invested yet is I don't know why I should care about Tarrito. I can tell there's a lot of political intrigue going on, but for a first chapter, you might consider either cutting it for some direct action or character-building scene, or leave it in and directly state what the goal is. We know there are two warring nations, and that the religious figure of the Queen has some sway. Why does that matter to Tarrito and Galen? What are their motivations for going to such great lengths?

I agree with jParker in most all accounts, mainly: 1) It's much better written 2) I didn't see any problems with the blocking 3) Though it's much better, the story still isn't grabbing me yet. I also like Tarrito's personality much more. It fits in with his job description better. I also particularly liked the interposing of action on the stage with what Tarrito and Bylan were talking about. Some other notes: end of pg 1: "The mystique surrounding the incredibly lifelike statue, coupled with the antics of the Queen and her High Sages levitating, and chanting, made the magic seem real enough for Tarrito to understand how the abysmally educated citizens of Albris fell for these charades, though he liked to think that had he been born Albrisian, he’d still be able to see through it." --It took me a couple tries to make it through this sentence. This is an editing nitpick, but you tend to say the person's name or title over and over rather than use "he" or "she" eg, pg 4: "The Queen floated next to Renaut’s statue, which had an immense fire crackling between its legs. The Queen’s golden face flashed in the sunlight as she swayed in slow circles, and chanted ancient words. When the Queen stopped moving, nothing had happened. No steam rose from Renaut’s nose. No sound came from his throat. The god had not been pleased. The Queen woke..." pg 5/6: I was a little confused here. Bylan doesn't actually threaten to go to Akens, so although I thought the scene where Tarrito stabs him was done well, I wasn't convinced there was enough reason to kill an important informant that could go where others could not. pg 12: I'm glad Galen had the same reaction I did--"why the &!*% did you do that?" I'll also agree with jParker here that Tarrito gets a little too kill-friendly for an assassin that's trying to hide. Galen hugs Tarrito twice. I gather they're good friends, but it seems a little out of place for a meeting about subterfuge and assassination.

Robinski--Thanks so much for the feedback and the document--I shall peruse them thoroughly! You're actually just in time, as I'm doing another draft right now. I got fed up with my other book. And I plan to start an outline on the sequel pretty soon! Thanks again

Yep, same reaction as andyk. I liked the writing in this chapter, and we got a couple hints of Elmer's background, but in the end, he only started the job that he said he would for the past three chapters. Hal's dialect felt like it got stronger through the chapter, with more dialectical words near the end than at the beginning. It may just have been the sentences he said, but if so, you may want to smooth it out a little. Some notes: pg 1: "His right hand reached for the pitcher of water. The left must have been out, because it promptly knocked the tin vessel onto the floor," --Awkward phrasing pg 4: "mantra that had gotten him through murders, rapes, and worse" --I assume you mean while he was a cop and had to deal with criminals, and not that he was the one murdering and raping . pg 5: "cosmere" --I think this one's been taken already... I looked it up and this is not a normal word. It's one Brandon came up with himself. pg 8: "pump your brakes" --Does this world have cars? Because I don't think this applies to carriages.

Hmm. No attachment on the email.

jparker - thanks for the feedback. you are correct. I need to add in some motivations for Hufi and Quilqi. The more I do this, the more bloated the story becomes, and I think that's one of the problems I'm struggling with, creating a lack of tension. On pictographs vs. hieroglyphs: I wanted to have a language that grew naturally out of motions of the body, since this is such a physical-based society. However, they probably are more limited in expressing ideas, so I'll have to watch out for that as I write more.