Bigmikey357

I don't know if Lightweaver has a pattern per se, more a direction toward complete self awareness, one so great that they're incapable of lying to themselves. Coincidentally I believe all Orders do this in their pursuit of their final ideals yet the majority of people must function within a structure in order to keep from being lost. Artists generally speaking don't do well with structure and hierarchy, therefore forcing those types into that type of organization means that not many would ever join up, much less progress.

While I don't see anything to disagree with the proposed final Oaths, I think that they likely apply to Dalinar only, or at most the Bondsmiths that bond SF. I personally don't believe that we can codify Bondsmith Oaths at all. The reason is simple. The spren are different. If I were to become a Windrunner I would bond an honorspren. Lightweaver bonds Cryptic. Ect, ect. The spren have their own personality but they're still the same type, attracted to the same type things. But a Bondsmith is bonding a mega spren whose only similarity to its siblings is power level. I imagine that the personality traits SF is attracted to will be significantly different than what would attract NW. I also think that the Oaths SF accepts would not work to pry NW from that valley.

That Loser Ruin. How Vin refers to Ati when when she tells the story of how she beat his butt. Usually requested when she goes bar hopping.

Kelsier

@Karger So we conflict on 3 and 5, 3 because of a different interpretation and 5 due to lack of information. The 4th is the same. A test, a crusade, a crucible, you take what you've learned about yourself through the first 3 Oaths out into the world and find a way to accommodate your world view. There will inevitably be those who can't and don't progress. Btw, I got the 5th Oath from the Skybreakers and extrapolated it out from there. It ties into what I believe happens when someone reaches Oath 5, a complete man spren merger. We could both be right or neither, or only be right about certain Orders and not other's. Either way it's fun to speculate. And I will read the individual ones when I get the chance.

@Karger The OP's Oath pattern theory jives well with my own interpretation, for I have thought about this as well. Haven't had time to look over the individual Order predictions yet though it looks really interesting. Anyway, maybe my theory will strengthen or help define yours better. 1st Ideal: Knight Radiant mission statement 2nd Ideal: Order mission statement 3rd Ideal: Refining/ Individualized mission statement 4th Ideal: Testing Ideal 5th Ideal: Embodiment of Order Whaddya think?

The question I keep coming back to is were the magic systems of Devotion and Dominion ever not geographically locked? I mean Odium visited pretty early post-Shattering. Did the Shards in residence have time to establish magic systems before Odium mucked things up?

The Oathpact is not broken despite Honor's Shattering and 9 of 10 Heralds attempting to abandon it. Nale has his Honorblade. It's my belief that the Heralds are still directly powered by Honor, or at least the remnants of his power. They likely don't get the wattage they used to but in a world with few Radiants and not quite dominated by Fused they don't need all that much to be awesome. Of course we don't have proof of this but until we know otherwise that's what I believe. YMMV of course.

Scadrians would probably freak out if they saw an Iriali. Or an Earth Scandinavian.

Nale is a Herald and therefore has a direct connection to Investiture. He has no need for gems to recharge him. As for 5th Ideal benefits, I believe those are universal even though the path to get there is largely individual. Meaning that anyone reaching their ultimate Oath in their Order will get the same powers. The journey will be different but the destination is the same. And of course some people will still be more capable than others, more easily use their surges, ect. But there must be some baseline or there's no point in having a system with levels at all. I've said this before but I believe 5th Ideal comes with a soul merge between man and Spren. With a soul merge comes trade. A Physical being gets Cognitive privilege and a Cognitive being gets Physical privilege. Syl manifests as a fully grown woman when Kaladin bumps up to both second and Third ideals. With the 5th Oath she could do that at will. She doesn't have to be a Shardblade in the Physical and she'll be able to touch things as a human would. And she'd have full thinking capacity. Kal gets a full view screen into the Cognitive Realm to include how his surges look on the other side. His perspective widens and he gains a baseline level of mastery in his surges, he's more fuel efficient and less leaky. The problem I see with this is that it's probably going to feel like a letdown. It's not flashy like when you get a blade or manifest plate. Unless the jump in power from 4th to 5th is incredibly drastic and dramatic it's gonna be hard to not be disappointed by the journey. Also, how much more powerful are they really going to get? Dalinar at 3 is super charging people and dropping perpendicularities. Dalinar at 5 improves on that skill a little? Anyway, while I think I'm right about what comes with 5th Ideal Radiancy I would not be surprised if they got something more than that. I know it won't be perfect storage, that's been killed by WOB. It's not a direct plug in, that's the Heralds deal. Maybe it's consistent access to the Spiritual side of the Surges or bleed over to different capabilities. I guess we'll see.

The contest is going to go to either Vin or Kelsier. Emotional manipulation for the win.

While Ruin would find the practice abhorrent. I don't think Dominion or Ambition (had they lived) would condone the practice, but I'm sure Cultivation would be all for it if she didn't have to share a system. Devotion likely gives it a thumbs up, the unconfirmed Ingenuity Shard would likely find the practice of very limited utility. Badvadin makes Avatars; she'd probably see making Returned in her various magic systems as redundant. No hint on what the other Shardic intents are so I can't speculate on how they'd feel about the practice or whether it would align with their intent.

Sure Uncle Addie granted abilities with limitations when he was whole. If I were the one passing out the powers of creation I would impose limits too so as not to have someone challenging me. But there is a distinction between power and system to my mind. If one is gathering powers from different Shards I believe it serves as a workaround for the limitations imposed by system. Take the Hoid example for instance. He now has 2 forms of Illusion, making him a much more powerful illusionist than if he held either power alone. So let's say there are other Shards that grant an Illusion component and that somehow Hoid were able to meet the conditions to obtain that power. How much stronger would that power be? There's three possibilities, either they compound and thus create a more powerful surge, ever closer to what a God would employ, they cancel each other out due to wave interference, or they stay in tact but separate, to be used accordingly, like a toolbox with different sized wrenches. I subscribe to the first but the other possibilities are viable as well lMO.

Adonalasium had the full power suite before Shattering, thus had no need for Resonance. He likely didn't require any certain conditions to use such powers or to grant them to whomever he chose. Someone gaining a particular power like healing or Fortune manipulation from multiple Shard sources should therefore have no need for Resonance either as the ability gets more broken and OP. Because it isn't about gaining more powers per se. I'm not necessarily talking about becoming a Fullborn and a Radiant and an Elantrian and the like. It's more about Compounding, stacking the same power from different sources.

I happen to subscribe to the theory that all possible powers in the Cosmere are a part if a Spiritual ideal, that the more power one acquires of a particular ability the closer one comes to that ideal. So a Bondsmith/Duraluminum Ferring will be better able to form Connection or even create connections between things not normally connectable. Each time one gains a complementary power from a different Shard they are closer to what Adonalasium could accomplish. Makes Hoid even more scary if you ask me.

Healing may have been an imprecise example considering how aluminum mucks up the conversation. So let's try something else. Transportation. Say I'm an Elantrian and I've found a way to make my abilities work off planet. I make it to Roshar and attract a Lightspren. That gives me two forms of Transportation. How does this affect my travel? Does it increase my range or precision because I have more connection to the ability or make it easier for me to traverse the Spiritual Realm? Or does it register as two abilities and I get a bonus Resonance? Can I use one form of Transportation to fuel the other as circumstances change?

Brandon builds unique magic systems. This is known; it is probably the thing that drew many of us to his works in the first place. But despite the unique nature of Cosmere magics it is still magic. By that I mean the purpose of magic is to do things one cannot do normally. Supernatural abilities will tend to overlap from world to world. You wanna fly? Manipulate emotions? Cast illusions? Divine the future? Multiple magic systems provide these abilities to a greater or lesser degree. In Mistborn we have seen what happens when attributes are stacked with Vin and copper clouds. By this example we know that the power from two different magic systems are stackable. Yet those are two different systems in the same family. Does it work for different families? Would an Edgedancer with F-Gold be invincible for example? We know that getting similar abilities via different magic systems is possible, we've even seen it on screen. Hoid has both Yolish and Rosharan Lightweaving now. So do they stay separate? You draw from different wells depending on which fits the situation better? Do the powers blend and create a Resonance? Or is there something like a Spiritual ideal of each ability and one gets closer to that Ideal the more one gathers that ability from other systems?

The major implication that I see with regards to warfare on Roshar with mixed forces is that despite the tech level siege warfare never really gets a chance to develop. There's no such thing as year long sieges on a planet with highstorms. You cannot starve them out or have them succumb to sickness. Sanitation isn't a problem as all waste gets Soulcast to smoke. Fortification is really important as it gives the defenders much more advantage than earth armies, many of the disadvantages negated by both local climate and manipulation of surges. Therefore the most effective mixed armies are raiders. Small squad tactics pay huge dividends.

I know that if I were in line to receive a spike I'd want the guy performing the procedure to be as knowledgeable as possible, and a license would reassure me greatly. I know I don't want some amateur you tuber spiking me under nearly any circumstance. In every book instance we've seen someone recieving a spike it has been through either Shardic intervention or practitioners who have performed the procedure dozens of times at least. Harmony hates the practice so Shardic intervention is likely out, and nobody knows enough about Hemalurgic practices to ensure that one is getting the desired attributes. There are over 300 bind points in a human body and intent is a hit or miss process when it comes down to it. I mean I know I'd be pissed to have someone die to give me strength and I end up a bronze ferring for instance. Still weak but I'll never be cold again. Great if I know what power I got. Not so great if I never discover my new gift.

Conversely Harkeylain could be the head of his Order, like Kaladin for Bridge 4. I don't believe that Bondsmiths have that kind of control over what is essentially a personal bond, though the possibility of me being mistaken obviously exists. Really anyone that can help guide a Radiant into the proper mindset should be able to help a Radiant achieve or maintain Plate. Syl does this for Kaladin on occasion, Hoid serves that purpose for Shallan, Navani and sometimes Adolin help Dalinar in stages. Given the nature of bond formation and the types of people the spren typically pick, it's probably wise to have a therapist on permanent staff in Urithiru.

Well how about this as a addendum or counterpoint to the theory. What if the process of creating plate is the same but the materials in the crafting are different? For example, for us that subscribe to the plate as lesser spren theory, say I'm a Windrunner of sufficiently high Oath as to form Shardplate. My plate is made of Windspren, or at least the framework is made of Windspren. My buddy is a Lightweaver and his plate is made of Creationspren. There's only one way to create that framework, but the spren that make up that framework precipitate small changes like different color or glyphs. The differences of the plate between Orders is minimal because there's only one way to make plate and have it be plate. Because the spren that make up the framework aren't sapient they don't have the cognition to confer extra abilities like live Nahel spren do. When they hit the Physical Realm they are directed by their parent type spren and that spren builds off of one universal blueprint.

So the ultimate Fully Truthed Lightweaver should in theory be able to construct fully touchable and interactive illusions responsive to all 5 senses as long as the Stormlight holds out. If the Midnight Mother can be used as a reference, say the dark mirror of Lightweaving, then I suppose it should be possible. It doesn't violate Realmatic rules as far as I can tell, and it makes Shallan and her ilk much more dangerous as an Order than their name and nature implies. That of course raises some questions about the constructs, namely what is the threshold of force needed to dispel or shatter such an illusion. Also, Stormlight consumption. How many of those solid illusions could one make given an average amount of Stormlight? How quickly would one burn through its fuel? If one is shattered by whatever means, is the non used fuel recoverable and does the Shattering hurt the caster?

Szeth is immune to Nightblood killing him offhand and will probably always know where he is, just like Vasher. However Nightblood is an equal opportunity eater. Nobody holding him is safe from him once he's unsheathed, bond or no. At most he'll gobble up Investiture reserves before feeding directly on the person if he's bonded to them.

Two Orders do the Soulcasting, Lightweaver and Elsecaller. I think for the reasons you state, it would be difficult for children to draw Inkspren, children not named Jasnah Kholin aren't big on logic. So your Soulcaster children are most likely coming from the Lightweaver order. Perception is a huge part of surgebinding so I could see children with their limited filters being better able to communicate a change to a spren. However, most children have limited mental defenses as well. The CR is a dangerous place for those who are mostly defenseless. They may be too good at Soulcasting. If they see something in the CR that spooks them they could unintentionally create monsters.

Detecting a presence in the CR isn't the same as knowing exactly where the person is well enough to point to them, but let us say that makes a difference. Even if they could, even if all went perfectly, the Mistborn can see the Radiant perfectly, walking or running towards them in the CR, then what? Tranversing realms isn't in the Mistborn skill set. But the Elsecaller can strike from there, is especially equipped to effect people and objects from one realm to the other. If the Mistborn cannot detect the Radiant with fighting precision they won't even get a chance to run. And the beauty of it is, they don't even have to attempt to Soulcast the Mistborn, just turn all their metals, all their weapons, to smoke. If they're subtle and possess any knowledge of metallurgy they could even change the composition of their metals, make them think they have their metals and end up making them sick. And they don't have to touch the Mistborn at all.