Bigmikey357

First, I'm not claiming that Radiants are invincible. They can be killed, specifically when caught unaware or have run out of Stormlight. What I am saying is that none of the weapons a Mistborn would typically employ would have any effect on a Radiant with Plate on. The Mistborn can't effect the metals they're wearing because they're made of solid Investiture. Coins either bounce off or push the Mistborn back. And glass knives? Please. Now if you give them guns it's a different story, but either one gets guns or they get Atium. Narratively the 2 don't exist together, though there is no other reason for them not to coexist. Second, we spent Era 1 Mistborn watching Vin, arguably the greatest and most skilled Mistborn to ever live. She is atypical. Many More Mistborn will be at Elerial's skill level than would be at Vin's. So it's fair to use her as a benchmark instead of Vin. Look, Vin killed a Fullborn. Do you believe that any Mistborn could have accomplished this? Talk about overestimating. Third, Mistborn mobility is great but not insurmountable given the Surges. Some surges can match or surpass that mobility. Windrunner/ Skybreaker can outmaneuver them, especially in an open plain while Edgedancer can more easily dodge than many opponents a Mistborn would face. Note that the Atium advantage is greatly reduced airborne, especially if they're far away from their anchors. Other surges can negate that mobility. The Soulcast orders could transform their coins or their metal even at a distance. The cohesion Orders could move their anchors and throw them off balance, or even stick them to the ground. See Amaram vs Kaladin in OB. Now if one were to give Mistborn both guns and Atium without adding new abilities to the Radiants then their success rate would rise up to more than one time in fifty. The odds get even better with plentiful, difficult to move anchors, say a city block with skyscrapers. There are strategies that allow for a Mistborn to win a head to head contest with a Radiant. But the thing about these strategies is that they take time and multiple damage to accomplish, during which time said Mistborn must be perfect. The Radiant has a much wider margin for error. And often the most dangerous place in the universe is within Shardblade range of a Radiant in plate. We can agree to disagree if you think a pewter burn can tank a Shardplate punch and keep moving. Shardblade cuts are unblockable with anything a Mistborn may carry. All that means is that all it takes is one hit, one mistake for the Radiant to render the Mistborn dead or incapacitate him while nothing in the Mistborn arsenal can duplicate this.

Even a glancing blow with Plate can break bones. But anyway, Atium is a huge advantage to the Mistborn, it's just not an instant win against a Stormlight user, especially one with Plate. Even the best case scenario won't kill the Radiant outright, more work would have to be done. And Atium runs out fast. It's going to be quite difficult to hit that kill shot even once. If you have to make that perfect, one-in-a-million strike multiple times your probability of success is greatly reduced. We're probably talking Vin vs. maybe Shallan as 5 Oath Radiant as far as combat effective level for that Mistborn to consistently beat the Radiant. But truth is, most Mistborn are going to be at something like Shan Elarial's level of competency and someone like her is not beating the worst Radiant out there.

Hard to dodge when there's only one place to attack. Atium ain't gonna show a winning path unless the Radiant has no Stormlight.

Also a double pewter Twinborn or a double pewter spiked Inquisitor should be added to the list. No problem with your order of strength so far. Though I will note that in the case of Stormlight, a 2 Oath Kaladin cracked Shardplate with a running drop kick. That should factor in to the strength analysis.

Debilitating, yes. Instant? For someone full of Stormlight? Not so much. A coin to the eyeslit has a super low probability of connecting. The Mistborn has a much better chance with the dagger. But the dagger puts one in range of that stupidity long Shardblade. The Mistborn must therefore deliver their knife blow and move out of range before said Shardblade delivers a strike or a flailing limb connects. This is the scenario I'm thinking of. The fight has been going on for awhile with the Mistborn playing keep away and the Radiant burning though Stormlight in pursuit. The Mistborn taps Atium to move in close and attempt the stab. He gets in close and manages to stick the knife in, but the Radiant is sweeping that huge blade around. Is the Mistborn fast enough to dodge the blow? He has nothing that can block it so he must dodge. At this point there are a few things that could happen. One, the Radiant misses completely, in which case all is good. Even if the Radiant isn't dead they'll use up a great amount of Stormlight in healing a normally fatal wound. They'd still have their blade but their plate must be dismissed, opening up all sorts of potential weak points. Two, the Radiant misses with the blade strike but hits with an arm or leg. The Mistborn may or may not be able to follow up on their successful attack then. Even a glancing hit with Plate is strong enough to break bones. And while Pewter may allow them to keep going it's going to be hard to attack if the Mistborn took a hit that broke an arm or a couple ribs. Three, the Radiant manages to hit with that Shardblade which becomes disastrous to the Mistborn wherever they're hit. At best the thing kills a limb. Worse case, a spine or headshot and instant death. Meanwhile the Radiant has time and no pressure to pull out the dagger and heal the damage. All 3 scenarios assume that Atium shows a path to victory anyway. The problem is, one point of vulnerability limits attack avenues. The Radiant only has one point to defend, the Mistborn only has one place they can succeed. The Mistborn by contrast must defend their entire body and isn't necessarily safe distance wise depending on which order of Radiant he's fighting. If the guy gets hit with anything it could be fatal, whether punch or blade or surge. Thugs can only take so much damage. As someone on here succinctly put it, a Mistborn is a glass cannon. A Radiant is a mobile battle tank.

Here's the thing. First, there is no way a Radiant in armor is going to neglect protecting their most glaring vulnerability when faced with any enemy, much less such an obviously supernatural one, at least not by accident. Second, a Radiant in armor holding Stormlight isn't automatically dead with that knife thrust. Were I Radiant, I might even take that hit just to lure my opponent into Shardblade range. Third, how much do these opponents know about each other beforehand? If they are aware of each other's powers they'll fight differently than if they fight blind. I say that to say that in terms of surprises the Mistborn has much more to worry about than any Radiant if they're going in ignorant. But if they know each other's abilities whose to say that Atium Shadow would even show a victory condition? You might just get that perfect shot as a Mistborn but not from distance. You have to get into Shardblade range to do anything like real damage to an armored opponent.

To be fair, a Fullborn beats any non-Shard in the Cosmere that isn't Elantrian and in the center of his or her power. A Fullborn with Atium beats everything barring Shards, full stop. Compounding makes them beyond ridiculous, to the point where we must ask how big an army would you need to take one out.

Dustbringers according to Brandon are used like artillery for the KR. Arty means distance. I wouldn't discount Elsecallers so easily. Jasnah proves one can Soulcast at range and nothing a Mistborn can throw is breaking through a Soulcast stone wall. Willshapers and Stonewards can negate a Mistborn's mobility by turning the ground into quicksand. Even a Lightweaver/ Truthwatcher is going to be a problem for the Mistborn. If the guy has his tin on the Radiant can overwhelm his senses with an impromptu light and/or sound show. Chromium leeching isn't instantaneous. And if it takes longer than a second to drain that Radiant the Mistborn is dead. Despite their power and versatility Mistborn are rather low in Investiture per WOB. The problem any Mistborn will have versus a Radiant is that in any head to head the Mistborn must be perfect. They fight an opponent that has at least 2 'I Win' buttons not including surges. If that Radiant connects with Shardblade or a plate enhanced punch, kick whatever the least thing that happens is something broken or rendered useless. A pewterarm may be able to shrug off a broken arm or leg but all the pewter in the world wouldn't stop a Shardblade deadening a limb. Death soon follows. Not to mention the Radiant has auto heal, meaning that even with Atium there are very few one shot kills a Mistborn can perform against that Radiant. The Mistborn must be perfect to overcome their disadvantages and outlast their opponents Stormlight. The only reliable way for a Mistborn to kill a Radiant is when their guard is down. You let that Radiant armor up and get his fuel source and you die. And even that is going to be damnnation difficult if the guy's spren is watching.

The thing is, it isn't what us as readers knew at the time, but what the story participants knew. Given Dalinar's status in the story there's a good chance that he could have offered terms and made them stick. There's also a good chance that Eshonai could have been a good bridge between her people and the Alethi. We know this but the stakes were high. Desperate people have hair triggers and neither could have been certain that either party would be the one to provide the spark. Now I will admit that Venli had an ulterior motive in that she wanted to be the one who saved her people and gain the power as her just reward. That would have inclined her to disbelieve in the efficacy of a cease fire. She may have also felt that based off the way they treated her distant relatives that what the Alethi would have proposed would have been worse than extinction. Venli was by no means an unbiased party. Yet and still, 6 years of constant, no quarter warfare does not engender much in the way of trust. There are things I can fault Venli for but her decision, given what she knew at the time,isn't something I would give total blame.

There are issues with Parshendi surrender. The big problem is the Sadeas initiative. To any Parshendi point of view, surrender is the same thing as extinction. Then there's the issue of trust. Dalinar might have been able to make an agreement stick but there's a good chance he would not have. Remember the last time they met on terms they lost a king. The Alethi cannot be sure they would honor their word and thus take the opportunity to slaughter them all when they supposedly have their guard down, turn about for the king they lost. There can be no agreement nor even assurance of safety where there is no trust. The issue is that the Five at the time of the assassination knew that their actions could likely spell the extinction of the Listeners. They were willing to pay that ultimate price to keep Odium from returning, to keep the Fused from returning. But it's easy to have that principled approach in the abstract sense. It's much harder when that extinction level event is imminent and you believe you have the means to stop it right at your fingertips. In that case the songs of your ancestors may not hold much of a candle when weighed against your current circumstances. Venli had the means, the will, and the hunger for recognition to act in a way she thought would both save her people and have her be seen as her people's savior. Both things were important to her. She was a villain, but one with quite understandable motivation.

I think less scorched earth, more infiltration and conversion. See Venli and Rlain, use Renarin and his moving blindspot. Some Listeners will come to the Honor side because they won't want to be a host to the Fused. Some will choose Honor for the promise of power, or the possibility of becoming Nesua Kadal, something denied them previously. Odium's forces aren't as monolithic as they seem from the outside and Dalinar has a dream pipeline to their biggest propaganda agent. There are ways to win that don't turn Roshar into another Ashyn.

It's certainly plausible that this is occurring, by whatever mechanism it turns out to be. My question is, what about the Heralds and the Fused? They are technically the same things as Returned yet they lose no memories to the transition. Could a part of that be because Returned are returning to their original, if altered body and spren never had a physical form body in the first place? These are my thoughts on the matter. Any time one transitions between realms without a perpendicularity, they need an anchor if they wish to avoid the sort of mental degradation we've seen previously. For the spren the anchor is their chosen Radiant but that anchor is not perfect. They (the human) aren't really Cognitive specific beings and something gets lost temporarily in transition. For the Returned, their anchor is damaged through death. They come back to their own modified physical bodies but I imagine death creates a psychic wound that doesn't necessarily heal as fast as a physical wound would. So what about our Heralds and Fused? My guess if the theory holds true is that these guys have better anchors than are available to spren and Returned. For the Heralds I propose that their Honorblades serve the purpose as they are Slivers of Honor in their own right given Physical form. Because they don't have minds to lose they can easily pass between realms with no degradation. For the Fused their vessels are the anchor. Listeners are halfway Cognitive entities naturally so they can provide a much better foothold for a full Cognitive entity to inhabit, though the host is lost in the process. However I still think that without that perpendicularity these entities are still sustaining damage. Their original bodies, having not experienced death trauma, would have been the perfect anchor but those bodies are long gone. Their mental degradation therefore is more gradual and increases with every reincarnation. It manifests as insanity.

The scripts of Roshar are completely unintelligible to me. They look like pictures of seismograph readings. But is that a coincidence, considering the dawncities may have been made with vibration? Or that Lightweaving deals with all waveform? So much of Rosharan culture ties back to the Radiants and the Heralds in some ways that I can't help but think that they are related.

Sadeas established early on in the campaign that this would be a war to the knife when he slaughtered a group of Parshendi that were trying to surrender. They weren't going to let those humans survive captivity.

@Gderu We cannot use Renarin as a template in regards to voidbinding because he's a product of a blended magic system and because his voidbinding isn't typical. His is a byproduct of a corrupted Nahel bond, something that to my knowledge is something new and unprecedented. Sja-anat has never been able to corrupt major spren before Glys. I really hope we get to see the mechanics of true voidbinding with the release of this latest book. Those terms are not IMO mutually exclusive. The person requesting the boon doesn't lose anything or really gain anything magic wise, the spiritweb is just rearranged. The NW uses her Investiture like an access key, the fuel for the transformation comes from the requestor. Granted that this may not be how it works. We've heard about Nightwatcher interactions but the one time we've actually seen one, Mamma C actually performed the transaction and her methods will certainly be different if for no other reason than she has more power at her disposal, can touch a spiritweb more deeply. It just makes sense to me that it would work that way.

I think this theory has some merit, at least loosely. Old Magic being soul neutral in particular is an interesting concept. Either boon or curse can manipulate a soul, the boon either directly or by the effect that boon has on you, the curse always alters the spirit web to achieve its effect. I think this works because one cannot be completely sure what boon or curse you get. You can ask for whatever but the Nightwatcher or Cultivation herself in some special cases picks what you get. As for voidbinding and the corruption of the user's soul we cannot yet know for certain as it really hasn't been written out. However it would not be a stretch if it actually worked as the OP speculates.

Generals die too, for nothing is certain in warfare, especially the way Alethi do it. I agree it's less likely if they aren't on the battlefield but any Bondsmith is going to have a huge target on their back if the enemy is even a little bit intelligent. If said spren is willing to share with a much greater spren I suppose it could be done. What I cannot see is a 5 Oath guy or gal dissolving their bond. I think the 5 oath Radiant has completely soul merge with their spren in a way only death could sever. If Kaladin never reaches that 5th Oath she'd be able to weather the storm. If he got to 5 I think that they'd have to share. Then again how would that even look to beings that are literally born from oaths?

In peacetime the Radiants could go for years with only one Bondsmith or perhaps none at all but as a Desolation approaches all hands need to be on deck and taking one offline for any length of time could be detrimental to the war effort. The Radiants could weather it I'm assuming, but it wouldn't be good. I suppose that a successor could be found in the Knights organization and that the Godspren are actively scouting out their next mates. The question only occurs to me because of Syl's reaction to the gloryspren. We know that it's not impossible for a spren and a human to disagree without hurting the bond. But is a spren above poaching another's bondmate? How disruptive would it be if Dalinar died and the Stormfather chose Kaladin instead of any squires Dalinar happened to acquire? What if Kaladin or Jasnah or even Lift wanted to take a more active role in the Knights, that they weren't content with just leadership of their own Order? Among the KR there will be ambitious people and the Bondsmiths are at the pinnacle of power. I don't necessarily trust the regulation of the KR to the spren, some just aren't as discerning and as Spark proves, they may have their own agenda.

Imagine the Knights Radiant at the height of their power, their ranks fully filled. 10 Orders, 3 Bondsmiths, the other 9 Orders headed by a Full 5 Oath Radiant and a Desolation impending. Suddenly one of those Bondsmiths dies for whatever reason. How does that spot get replaced? I see three possibilities, each however has its own problems. We are sure to get more information with RoW, but for now we can all speculate on which option is more likely based on what we know now. 1. Let the Godspren handle it. They have been choosing candidates for millennia, surely they know what they want in a bondmate and can decide who to take over the mantle. Problem is, when a Godspren chooses a candidate they can come from anywhere, even from outside the Organization. Humans do not do well when they question the stability of their leadership, and nobody is going to want follow someone who just walks off the street to become president. Plus, anytime a Knight dies their spren loses cognitive function. The role of a Bondsmith is too important to leave to chance or the whims of a spren lacking some of its wits. In peacetime it doesn't pose as much of a problem. In war it could be devastating. 2. Promote from within the Organization This solves the immediate problem of having someone taking a leadership role in the Knights without experience. Problem is, the best candidates for this are going to be high up in the hierarchy of their own Order. Spren are territorial for the most part. I don't see many of them giving up on their mates or their own cognition for almost any reason. And in the case of the 5 Oath Radiants it may not even be possible. Could they share a Radiant? Brandon says it's possible but unlikely. 3. Build your own successor Thanks to the new info provided by Brandon, it has been confirmed that Bondsmiths can have squires. This possibility seems perfect, as you have a person familiar with the Knights taking over a leadership position without knocking someone else from their post. And it narrows the random factors that arise from having a spren do the choosing. The problem is the Godspren themselves. If the Stormfather's bondmate dies and he or she has a pool of squires to choose from, all well and good. But what happens when the Bondsmith dies with no issue? Do they pick a squire from their fellow Bondsmiths? What if for example the Nightwatcher squire is in contention? The Stormfather picks the exact squire the Nightwatcher wanted for the successor to their own Knight? They are called siblings, and siblings bicker. Sometimes it's harmless. Other times...? Not so much. Anyway that's all I got. Any thoughts on this?

I gotta pick Roshar. They can essentially duplicate any technological advancements as the guys on Scadrial and Taldain, albeit by vastly different methods so no loss there. The weather sucks, true, but they have much more real estate if you factor in the CR. But lastly and most importantly, If Roshar dies you lose the Listeners, the spren and both sets of Amians in addition to humanity. Sure Odium is a problem but I trust Dalinar to handle it. So for the Preservation of many sapient species, Roshar must be spared.

I truly think Gavilar did his son a bad turn. You could extend this to Navani and to a lesser extent Jasnah, but only to a certain point. He wasn't taking advice from mommy and big sister after a certain age no matter how good the advice. Ruling 101 had to come from daddy dearest. And daddy couldn't have been as present because Elkohar had grown up with the survival instincts of a dodo bird. I mean you live in a world where backbiting and scheming is almost an Olympic sport and you grow up trusting everybody? Jasnah's knives had to have a great workout to keep him alive. There's good mettle in him, else the Cryptics would not have taken an interest. And he seems to have gotten regal bearing from somewhere, though he rarely used it when it counted. I couldn't even call him a coward. But it seems to me that once he started observing Kaladin (and getting browbeaten by a Herdazian mother) he started improving on his kingship performance. Thing is, he should have had those lessons much sooner and the person he should have learned it from was Gavilar. Gav should have taken a little time our from forging the country to straighten out his legacy.

Elokhar was a bad king, but not just for his decisions. Everyone makes mistakes, even the greatest of rulers. What makes a good ruler is in recognition of mistakes so that they can be fixed. All too often he would be unaware of his foul ups or when he figured out that mistakes were made he'd compound those screwups. He made bad decisions worse. However in all fairness we don't know how long he was scouted by the Cryptics, how being supernaturally hunted effected his psyche. We also don't know how Gavilar was as a father, if he taught kingship in any meaningful way. We are starting to see that at base, Gavilar wasn't really the best of guys. And the kingdom he won is fundamentally different from the one his son had to rule. Then again, Elkohar wasn't a child when his father died, he was a fully formed adult. He should have been better. I think that he would have been had he lived. Personally I think Elkohar would have been much happier as a normal guy. He kinda lacks the temperament to rule. In peacetime he might not have been a disaster but who knows? Maybe he was just dealt a bad hand.

The Cadmium bubble can be as big as a small room, the Bendalloy max size is about 3 or 4 feet around. But the nature of the time dilation is going to make metal manipulation difficult. Scenario 1, the Mistborn launches his coins, horseshoes, ball bearings, whatever at the motionless (from his perspective) Radiant from inside normal time. The Radiant is on the other side of the room. As soon as those projectiles cross the time barrier there is no way to know where those projectiles are going to end up. Some might even end up shooting back at the Mistborn. And since pushes and pulls fan outward from the Mistborn center of gravity it's going to be near impossible to put a bullet on the correct trajectory. So everything misses. Scenario 2, the same thing only the Mistborn nails the timing and Radiant is only inches away from the Bendalloy barrier. The ricochet problem is somewhat mitigated, accuracy may be higher but if the Radiant is protected then glancing shots aren't going to be enough to overcome the Plate defense. There's no guarantee that solid shot will manifest in the time it takes for your Bendalloy to burn away. In fact, nothing solid that crosses that barrier is going to have a good time. So that could be a good defense for the Mistborn if they can really pinpoint the timing. As the Radiant swings fist or sword or whatever, arrange it so that the strike has to pass through the fast time envelope. It likely will break that arm or screw up that sprenblade. But this isn't entry level usage of this power, one must be a master. But if the Radiant is close it's going to be hard to generate the momentum it takes to shatter plate. Scenario 3, Mistborn is sitting pretty in his Bendalloy bubble, the Radiant is stuck in his Cadmium flytrap, the Mistborn starts manipulation of metals that are inside the Cadmium bubble and not in the Bendalloy one. That one is problematic because those objects are still moving in slow time too. The best you can probably accomplish is to initiate the pull towards yourself. That gives you a little time but pushes and pulls aren't all that precise even when you don't factor in time tricks. It may be different if one could adjust time within a made bubble but I don't think that's possible. Scenario 4, let's play Cadmium nesting dolls. Step 1, pop the big bubble. Step 2, pop a smaller Cad bubble as the Radiant closes in. Step 3, Pop the Bend bubble before the Radiant kills you. Step 4, manipulate the metal in the outer perimeter to smash against the Radiant. Step 5, drop both Cad bubbles so nothing crosses a barrier. Last step, drop the Bend bubble and clear the debris fallout area. This is a trap scenario, requires the Mistborn to use environment to their advantage. Probably won't work in all cases and if anything is mistimed the dude dies.

When someone generates a time bubble that bubble manifests centered on the caster, right? And the Cadmium bubble is bigger than the bendalloy bubble right? So how can the Mistborn catch the Radiant in the speed bubble without being effected by that same patch of distorted time? Using the time bubbles doesn't make sense unless one is using the Allomantic Grenade method. That would work for taking out a Radiant but that's magical tool territory. edit: Ok Thinking about what one is trying to do with the time manipulation. So are you guys proposing tossing up the Cadmium bubble as the Radiant comes into range and then popping the bendalloy bubble inside that cad bubble, thus trapping the Radiant in slow time and the Mistborn is in normal time? Physical objects passing through that barrier are going to have a hard time. Say you catch the Radiant within sword range in that pocket of slow time. That sword isn't going to survive the time stream difference I don't think. So what about projectiles? They are going to be near impossible to aim, but even if you could push/pull metal from inside that bendalloy bubble the projectiles will still move in slow time. So put a bunch of projectiles in the air and try to aim them before dropping the bubble. When everything returns to normal time the Radiant is facing a shotgun blast worth of metal appearing before they could possibly react. Well whatever the mistborn decides to do they must be quick, Bendalloy burns nearly as fast as Atium.

We can do a little intelligent speculation based on general realmatic theory and similar situations in the books. But the results of my deep dive will likely be different than others as more weight given to some evidence others may discount. Being honest, based on the emotional makeup of these Radiants, I think emotional Allomancy would be most effective against them. It might not work against plate but as many have observed, Radiants don't always use plate. But as far as such tactics working against Spren themselves, well Investiture resists Investiture. Spren are in the simplest terms is pure Investiture with some personhood added. It will be difficult for any type of Allomancy to touch them. Speaking of Spren, if the fight is on Roshar the Radiant has a huge advantage over most any magic user.