ConfusedCow

I liked the ambiguity of Odium/Passion. It makes Odium a better character. More importantly hate and love are disturbingly, dangerously, intimately, connected. Also I really liked the Odium+Honor = Obsession idea. Eye for an eye is clearly a pretty vicious notion. It ends in blindness in many different ways.

Retribution has the word tribute in it, a payment that's due. To me it has a transactional quality. You hurt me this much so now I have to hurt you the same. As Ripheus23 points out, a system of justice based on retribution is particularly cruel and ineffective. I hope we agree that an eye for an eye is not justice. Revenge by contrast is more of a feeling than a principle. Revenge may be violent and pointless, but it has a kind of honesty to it. The person seeking revenge isn't trying to get justice or a balance a ledger, they're acting out of pain and loss. Honor isn't about a consistent set of rules. Nale is wrong. I think Honor is mostly about being bigger than yourself and your own needs. Which is the exact opposite of retribution.

I don't like Retribution. Shocking I know. What I mean is I think Honor + Odium, or Honor + Passion, ought to not equal Retribution. Retribution is a petty, small minded feeling, unbefitting of a shard let alone two. Incongruous with Taravangians' sweeping plans and philosophy. It is focused on narcissistic goals of getting even or some naive sense of fairness. It has none of the grandeur of Honor nor the consuming force of Odium. This one detail really irks me about the book, which I think is the weakest in the series. It undermines and cheapens this great calamity. Oppression, Enmity, Contempt, Pride/Hubris, or even Storm would have been better.

It comes down to who do you trust more, yourself or the people making the laws. I know my answer.

How dare you offend the heralds with your blasphemy!

Where does the water that falls on the shattered plains go? That's a lot of water and it drains away, not pools and evaporates. No big rivers or lakes nearby on the map or mentioned. The only possibility is some vast aquifer leading under the frost lands to the ocean. Shallan mentions the chasm fiend chrysalis resembles an aquatic great shell chrysalis. Creatures like chasm fiends need a ample food supply. Shallan speculates they migrate to some other unknown plain full of chulls but where? Why has no one seen them (and hunted) them there? You can see where I'm going with this, Jules Verne meets the Meg. There would need to be some energy source to power the cave ecosystem.

Good observation, though IMO. The child sacrifice in WOR is Shallan. The child sacrifice in ROW Eshonai. Thinking about this made me notice another pattern I wondered if anyone had observed. Each viewpoint radiant deals with a flashback ('childhood') trauma differently. Five Stages of Grief Denial : Shallan Anger : Dalinar Bargaining : Venli Depression : Kaladin Acceptance : Szeth IDK fits pretty well. Not sure what it implies. None of the above seem like a healthy response, though if there is a right way to deal with grief I don't know it.

Forts Board makes a good point and there is a question about how many side kicks. Moana has Pua and Heihei. Luke has R2 and C3PO. Harry has Hedwig and Buckbeak. Spin has a slug and a spaceship. Let me offer this other point in defense of 5th ideal (Stead). Brandon excels at world building. His works stands apart in the genre for the vibrancy and uniqueness of the ecology. Not since Tolkien, have the plants and animals been such a part of the story. I have this theory that there is an impending ecological catastrophe on Roshar. There are hints at this, Ashyn, visions, the very destructive nature of the storms. If the radiants journey ended back at connecting to the natural world it would be a pleasing convergence of themes.

Rysn Ftori means rising force in Aramaic. It's poetic, the person who looks weakest is secretly strongest. What a sweet world that would be, where Gods bow before children.

Rysn, Change.

So the pattern is, 1st ideal (1st surge), 2nd ideal (2nd surge), 3rd ideal (Blade), 4th ideal (Plate). I believe the fifth ideal will fit this general pattern, 5th ideal (Stead). This won't be a Ryshadium, but rather the ability to connect with the natural life of Roshar. Willshapers will ride chasmfiends. Edgedancers will run with whitespines. Elsecallers will cuddle sky eels. Windrunners will fly with Larkins.

Perhaps the Threnodite chain isn't cash but a card. Mraize might pay Rabonial by transmitting something (investiture/identity?) along the chain from some other place. We know the Ghostbloods pursue this. We know Ambition's investiture has to do with leeching, 'transmitting' identity. This would fit with Rabonial's anchoring comment. This would also explain the two forms of payment.

The weird thing about this death rattle are the pronouns. Why is it "his throat" and "its blood"? Are they two different beings? Which if any of them are the suckling child? Is it just an errant typo? That would be unusual for Brandon. Does it hint that the suckling child might not be human? The last phrase is also weirdly constructed "and with it gain us further breath to draw." Why not just write "and save us all" or "and keep us breathing a little longer"? What does 'with it' and the 'to draw' add? Why is the extra unrelated imagery about breathing there in the first place? Certainly the passage is vivid enough already. I suppose the true secret is to write in such a way that your readers can't tell whether your backward, bizarre, brilliant or benighted.

"To speak of what might be is forbidden." Why? It is implied that this is because the power originates with Odium, but that's a bad reason. Practical people use whatever tools they have and prepare as best they can. The prohibition is about keeping secrets. The real secret that caused the recreance or the storm father's secrets. There is only one reason though to never think about the future. Honor knew; they're all doomed. They have to fight anyway. Sacrifices to buy time for the Cosmere. So Honor lied to give them a terrible false hope. I think it killed Tanavast to do it. He acted against the intent of the shard. What do you think Honor doesn't want people to know about the future?

Kaladin has found purpose, friends, family, the missing piece is love. "I will protect Jasnah Kholin."