Bigmikey357

The problem I'm seeing is that in a conflict, both Roshar and Scadrial are broken, albeit in different ways. For brute force it doesn't get much better than a Radiant riding a chasmfiend holding a sword that severs souls. Scadrial's magics play very well with technology and they can be fueled anywhere, at least for most metals. Plus, let's face it, Harmony cheats. So in my mind, unless the Aethers become something special or Taldain gets its blockade lifted either system's forces would likely have me running in different directions near immediately. My next move is to gather allies. Sel by itself eventually loses. Sel plus Nalthis has a better shot. If Threnody can actually weaponize Shades then even better. I personally still can't see Sel winning against the monsters unless they figure out how to divorce magic with location. Otherwise a few stonewards with some time on their hands or a couple airships with ettmetal bombs can alter a landscape and turn everyone back to the Reod.

And yet nothing fundamentally changed about the powers of Devotion and Dominion, only the ability to access that power. To stretch the analogy, nothing is wrong with the water in the pipes but the faucet is broken. An argument can be made that the power's inclination to search for a Vessel to contain it is in fact a part of that power. In that sense they are broken. But I posit that if someone were somehow able to restore that connection, or if the powers themselves gained sentience, then they'd work just as they did before Aona and Skai died. Honestly I think Ambition is the more troubling case, though it may be less so once we have more detailed information.

Simple that. Odium shattered the glass, gathered up the water before some other glass could hold it, and poured it into the carpet that is the Cognitive Realm. Now the carpet is always wet and nobody can hold the drink. You still get water if you step in the right place but you don't get to put it in a container.

We're assuming here that the GB's aren't doing exactly what Kelsier wants. He's probably met Iyatil personally and knows her methods. He finds them acceptable, else he would not have picked her to run her part of the operation. What makes anyone think he cares a lick about anyone on Roshar? He cares about his crew, whoever they are. He generally picks good people if the original crew is anything to go by. He can make mistakes (Ham is no general) but it seems rare. But anyone he doesn't personally know can be made expendable and he won't lose much sleep over it. So Iyatil tells him about a place with abundant free flowing Investiture and people who have a similar affliction to his own. He goes to his blackboard and circles the objectives Iyatil is in charge of accomplishing. He lets her get to it. All he wants back are messages of mission accomplished.

So when Hoid throws Wax the coin at the end of BoM, is he working with our beloved sociopath or against him?

A Vessel is just that, a Vessel. I look at like this. Say I have a glass of water. That glass gets cracked but holds together, weakened. Then someone takes a hammer and shatters that glass. Is the water harmed? No. But if I wanted to drink that water I'd need a new glass to hold it for me. By that logic we can infer a couple things. Regarding Honor, the original glass was broken but the water fell into a bunch of little cups. If one were able to gather up all those little water droplets and pour them into a new cup then Honor would live again, only with a different cup. Regarding Odium, the glass was already weakened, it got shattered, only someone was there to collect the water before it touched the floor.

Rayse may have straight up lied to the Fused, or he could be lying by omission and letting them come to their own conclusions. I don't think Odium can bestow that particular surge, or that he had to leave one out (he's 9 centric) and Adhesion is the hardest to grant. We still have puzzle pieces to find.

Division can probably be cast at range. Releasers were artillery on the battlefield and I have no reason to believe the surge would work differently for a Skybreaker. But if it needs contact to work, lash a bunch of rocks to the sky. Set them on fire. Send flaming debris via lashing at coinshot. Instant directed non-deflectable meteor shower. Inhale a bag of Stormlight. Repeat until dead.

The stakes had to be incredibly high in order for Rayse to be interested. If I had to guess, if Honor won he'd voluntarily give up his power, if Rayse won he'd be trapped. Rayse doesn't lose either way, at worst he's temporarily trapped in system. Tanavast would agree because even if he lost he had his wife to fight the good fight. She seems more capable and better at future sight. Maybe the new spren weren't born, maybe Honor imposed his will on his essence. Either way, somehow those rules, the Ideals, were implemented and incorporated into the spren.

Maybe the act of unmaking so many of the spren that run Roshar did more than just turn the rest of the spren against the Singers. It probably prompted Tanavast to opt for the first contest of champions. Old Tanavast won it, and that was the deal that trapped Odium in system. However Rayse found a way around the terms or the terms didn't cover the Fused, so the bums kept coming back, kept knocking Humans farther and farther back. Ishar and his ilk were either directly involved in the contest of champions or were able to study what Honor did to Odium. They figured that there would never be time for Humans to build themselves back up if the Fused kept returning so they came to Honor and talked him into the Oathpact. The unchanged spren observed the Heralds and, having rejected the Singers, sought out Humans to bond with, and those bonds mimicked what the Heralds could do, even surpassing them in some ways. But a human granted power without checks is a frightening thing. Now Ishar has a bunch of madmen doing more damage to the planet than any Desolation. Fearing another Ashyn, He goes back to Honor, he talks to his wife and the spren, and they come up with a game plan. New spren are created as a result, and these guys will grant powers through the bond, only with caveats attached.

From my understanding Investiture is infinite. The Investiture we've seen used, while massive to mortal beings, is actually a small amount, basically the dregs. When we see that Investiture used, whatever products are left after the magic user has completed the action goes back into the Spiritual Realm where all Investiture originates. As for the Atium, Ruin was essentially locked out of the SR by Preservation and only able to access the Investiture he possessed locally. Those Atium beads would have been the key to unlocking his greater power, and since Preservation was weakened by being held by an incompatible Vessel at the time of the burn he would have been able to do as he wished. Elend however returned that Investiture to the SR and Ati could not access it. For the Light-antilight reaction, if I understand the mechanics the reaction forcibly removes whatever Investiture lurks within the target and returns it to the original realm (Spiritual). The force of that reaction releases heat. If the content of the Investiture is under pressure (like in a gemheart) then heat plus pressure equals explosion. That's all I got for now.

So Nale and Kalak, obviously seen working together during Gavilar's assassination feast, are doing organizational infighting? Not buying it. Daddy Davar had ties with the GB, but I think it was more them using his ties to Veden aristocracy in exchange for money rather than outright membership. What missions would anyone entrust him to perform, a man with such self control issues? Here's how I see it breaking down. Both Skybreakers and GB had eyes on the Davar household for a long time. SB was watching for potential Radiance, GB was looking for that dark, not completely natural influence that Hoid mentioned in WoR. SB agent gets killed before reporting, GB agent gets to report, adding the tidbit of potential Radiance. GB false flags to recruit Helaran, gives him some Shards, and sends him out on missions. GB find out quickly that while Helaran is useful he's no Radiant so they continue to watch Davar House. Maybe they engineer some deals that go bad for Davar, make the old man desperate. Then they make an offer he can't refuse. And because Helaran doesn't know who he's really working for the GB can disavow him at any time should he fail. And so they can keep a useful agent and allying house they find a way to keep the SB off the trail, divert them from prying. That scenario makes more sense to me than SB giving some untrained jamoke with no spark of Radiance a dead blade and have him wreak havoc across the countryside without supervision. As for the OP, while I do believe dissolution of the bond requires a sign-off by both sides I can't believe any spren would choose the way they did after the Recreance if they knew they'd become zombies. Maya said that they expected pain, not death. As for Shallan and Testament, she broke that bond intentionally and walled up her own memories of the event, but there must have been a part of her that wished to retain the connection, enough that she still could command a trickle of power.

@Aspiring Writer No WoB on it, just the observation of Ishar's fight against the Windrunners. Connection, like Atium sight, originate in the Spiritual Realm. Ishar probably cannot manipulate connections without physical contact, but he should be able to see them. That's why I said Speed is TLR's biggest advantage. In the absence of Atium, Emotional Allomancy is his next greatest, and the more dependable one. The reaction time of every Herald is supernatural, they may be fast enough to defend themselves from the speed of TLR at least for a little while even if they could not counter. I again must emphasize that I still believe TLR takes the prize, the only difference is that I used to think he could body all 10 Heralds, if not all together, then at least in groups of 4 or 5. Now I believe TLR has a much thinner margin for error. Something that we should take into account for this battle is that every last combatant is insane. No win is certain because on the Scadrial side Ruin could be prompting TLR to make a mistake or underestimate the opponent. It's how he lost to Vin after all. On the other side we don't know what particular magical malady any particular Herald is suffering from, it's kind of a crapshoot.

@StanLemon Crem tastes metallic. So do mineral deposits in water. The taste could be either metal or rock AFAIK. But even if the planet isn't particularly metal poor it certainly doesn't show up in the types of concentration as Scadrial. That info BTW comes from WoB, although I'm not in position to search for it right now.

I'm sorry guys, I just don't see TLR lifting a Thunderclast and tossing it several miles. No matter how much pewter they can bring to bear there is an upper limit. If a Radiant could do so there'd be no need for Shardblades. As far as pushing on trace metals in the rock, how much of that is on Roshar? It was my understanding that Roshar is quite metal poor, meaning a Thunderclasts 'body consists of hardened clay more than metal laced stone. Furthermore, I'm not sure what good blowing its head off would do. My guess is you either have to banish the spren that animate the rock monster or cut it into manageable pieces. So for TLR to beat a Thunderclast he would likely have to find a place on it where he couldn't be shaken off and leech for all he's worth. Barring that, the right tool for the job is a Shardblade. Or Nightblood. The most worrisome attribute TLR possesses is speed, that's going to be the hardest thing to counter for a Herald. I think Ishar could counter Atium and I think Battar and Kalak could smoke him from the CR. Much like a Mistborn vs a Radiant, the best way for the Scadrian to win is to end the fight before the Rosharan knows that there will be a fight.

As far as Lirin goes, thank everything holy for Hessina. Maybe it should have been obvious but if it wasn't for her I probably never would have realized that Lirin has the exact same hangup regarding Tien that Kaladin has. He blames himself for his son's death. He even has more justification for it than Kaladin. He could have caved on the spheres. He could have moved away. He could have let the knife slip on that operating table. Note that I do not blame him for any of these decisions. In many ways Kaladin would not have become the guy we all love had his father wavered in his moral character when things got tough. But I can understand that he feels that he failed his family, that he failed his then-youngest son. Therefore the actions he takes after Tien's death, the stances he adopts, are totally reactionary to past trauma. It makes him a dark mirror to Kaladin in some respects. That being said, I can admit Lirin is well written. I'm aware that Brandon pulled all the heartstrings, that I'm supposed to hate him in this book. I can even see the realism, for we often hurt those closest to us, if for no other reason than we know where the the armor is thinnest. And I can appreciate that with an assist from Hessina he was able to give his kid a break and eventuallycome tosome common ground. I can know all of these things, understand all these things, yet still want to punch Lirin repeatedly in the face until my hand bleeds. And part of that is reflexively trying to defend Kaladin. I can acknowledge that. But there's things you just don't say to someone with PTSD. There's things that you just don't say to heroes. And really Lirin, read the flipping room for crying out loud. You're determined to be the only human on Roshar that isn't proud of Kaladin or respects his accomplishments. Hell, Moash is probably the worst person ever. Even he loves Kaladin, albeit in a stupidly twisted way. Do better Lirin, BE better. I actually used to like you.

I certainly thought it was a shout out to Name of the Wind. Or it could be Silence's tavern if we're looking for Cosmere connections.

I posted on your last one. I think my interpretation is still valid, and we mostly agreed on what we spoke about before. Personally I think your second ideal is still a bit too complicated. Or rather, maybe you're describing the effects of swearing that oath. My interpretation (Order Mission Statement) is what the 2nd Ideal is, improving oneself according to a guideline (to paraphrase what I think you meant)is what swearing the 2nd oath does. As far as the 4th Ideal, Kaladin has passed his Crucible, I think Teft passed his too (and had stupid Moash hadn't killed Pheandora he'd have spoken his 4th), Szeth is embarking on his and Dalinar is close, as indicated by him handing his book to Jasnah to add undertext. I don't know what Lift's 4th will be but I can imagine her admission of her words to Cultivation to be a significant step towards it. Maybe I will listen to myself? I am stumped on that 5th Oath. If its embodiment then I really don't know what else Kaladin needs to exhibit to show that he's the ultimate in Protection. I don't know how many secrets Shallan has left. Once Szeth cleanses Shinovar I don't know what else he has to prove. I couldn't tell you how Dalinar could swear the 5th without immediately Ascending to Honor.

I've always considered our favorite Herdazian General to be a budding Dustbringer instead. He almost supernaturally slips out of cuffs, rooms, ect. His personality, forever poking at Dalinar, laughing at chaos, and having moments that show his gooey sentimental center look like both Malata and the Dustbringer entries in the Gem Archive by turns. Lastly he takes responsibility for his country even though it's occupied, and the Dustbringer oaths are themed towards responsibility. I will say however that Willshaper seems just as valid considering the arguments brought up by OP. All we know now is he doesn't have a spren yet.

I think Helaran was a Ghostblood. It really doesn't make sense for him to be a Skybreaker. They had no beef with the SoH, Amaram was nothing like close to attracting a spren, and they aren't sending a squire unattended anywhere, especially not with dead shards. But if he were a Ghostblood, well I'm sure they could obtain blade and plate pretty easily, Amaram's awareness of the deeper game makes him a prime target for a hunt, plus the way he went about slaughtering on the battlefield on his way to Amaram looks like something a GB candidate would consider to be a valid tactic.

I don't believe we're overestimating the Heralds. They would have to be super impressive for them to overawe Radiants who share their powers. They have to be OP for the story to work. Unless we're giving TLR a Shardblade I don't see him taking out a 59 ton rock monster. Well, maybe if he could Leech the thing. Dude is OP, but it's mostly anti-personnel, not anti-environment. I'm not sure there'll be a problem when it comes to the Big Ole ShardWar we'll get later. Roshar has the God of Hatred running all throughout their DNA. If I'm an unaligned planet in the Cosmere I'd be terrified to ally with Roshar. Scadrial's God is Harmony. Sounds much nicer. Roshar will have no shortage of enemies I reckon. Plus, with medallion technology the Scadrians have more power to offer to allies and less restrictions on said power. I mean you could have someone give you a necklace and instantly be magical or you could travel to some cold, stone covered hurricane factory, hang out for who knows how long in hopes of attracting a non-human companion that judges all your life choices, and get periodically peer reviewed to progress.

TLR vs. Herald. 1000 years of experience with their power, contending with nobody close to his power level vs. 5000 or so years fighting enemies at least on par with them. Advantage: Herald Ruin playing mind games for a millennium vs. Odium tormented off and on for several millennium. Advantage: TLR Metalmind storage + Compounding vs. Direct Investiture feed. Advantage: initially even, Herald the longer the bout (metalminds can run dry). Both have the ability to destroy armies. However, any Herald could have gone to Scadrial and achieved what TLR did. By contrast, TLR and the entire human race dies on Roshar way before Arihatiem (?sp). Seeing a couple Heralds casually snatching fast moving projectiles out of the air makes me think that they just may be able to react better to steelrunning than I previously gave them credit for. Seeing Ishar casually school Radiants to the point of there being a question of weather hyperconnection would function like Atium burns scares me nearly as much as TLR. Kelek and Battar's ability to pop into the CR at will (and with infinite Investiture, probably come closest to Nightcrawler style Teleportation than is likely possible for a Radiant) should be worrisome for any opponent, even TLR. Otoh, TLR has some surprises in store as well. While his greatest advantages, Steelrunning and Atium, are also the attributes that run out the fastest, he can pour on the Emotional Allomancy for days. He can defend against most attacks, can take a punch from a Shardplate without blinking and can punch back nearly as hard if not harder for certain punches (double pewter + duraluminum). Final Tally: I'd still give it to TLR but it is much closer than I initially thought due to some of the onscreen performances of past-their-prime Heralds and their remarkable skills. Imagine how badass they used to be. One thing is for certain imo. TLR could beat one or maybe two at once. But he couldn't beat them all. And if he were to try and beat them 1 after the other he wouldn't get through half of them before one ended him.

Like in the previous Mistborn vs. Radiant debate it's rather difficult to predict accurately because we've seen the highest potential in metalborn humanity in action (Fullborn, Wax w/Bands) but have yet to see a Full Radiant for more than a couple seconds. That being said, if you're allowing a Fullborn with medalians and vindication and hazekiller rounds then you must allow a Bondsmith unchained with limitless connection powers, suppressor fabrials and Raysium anti-investiture knives. If it comes down to tool usages then it's anyone's game. But let's take away all the tools and see who can win based on sheer ability. I am attempting to make the match up as even as possible initially. Bondsmiths don't get a blade so they are allowed Ishar's Honorblade as a weapon. The Fullborn gets a knife or sword or spear, whatever. Four bags of spheres vs. 4 metal vials. In a scenario like that Fullborn wins nearly every time. One simple reason. Speed. Every ability the Fullborn brings to the table can be countered by a Radiant except 1, steel speed.

@BenduLuke Yes a steelrunner or steel compounder would have an excellent chance killing a Radiant. But that's beyond the scope of the argument. Not even the most powerful Mistborn can move with that type of speed, and one would likely need that to overcome the reaction time of a Radiant's always on armor.

Sibling spiritual connection, getting closer to Radiance.