Bigmikey357

@Llstml Elsecallers get no love? Nightcrawler who can Soulcast at Range or from the CR? What can a Mistborn do to defend against that?

If you don't believe Stormlight grants a Pewter-like effect, reread the 4 v 1 duel in WOR. Kaladin's performance in this demonstrates the advantages granted by Stormlight, increases in speed, dexterity and precision but not power so much. A Stormlight enhanced punch won't likely kill an unarmored man like a Thug would but it would hurt him pretty bad. And speaking of that duel, Kaladin lashed himself many times to fall toward the Shardbearer, hitting hard enough for him to break both his ankles and both his legs. How high a building would you have to jump off of to shatter both legs and ankles upon falling? 5 + stories maybe? Anyway I think people may be downplaying the force applied by that kick. An unarmored man taking that kick in the back dies instantly, his spine shattered. It only cracked the Plate, not shattered it. @Tglassy I think you're giving Atium a tad too much credit. If it were a regular Radiant going up against an Atium Misting, the Radiant wins because there's too many ways to checkmate them. No maneuverability, no defense against surges. A Mistborn burning Atium has a better chance because they can move in ways that increase their options. You have a chance of the one shot with the right weapon (their traditional fighting load, glass knives and coins won't be sufficient). It still would be difficult. Future sight is all well and good but atium only sees a couple seconds into the future. Prolonged battles aren't going to favor the Mistborn using Atium as a crutch. A Knight in full armor? The guy doesn't have the weaponry to one shot the Radiant. I'm sorry but Vin trying to headbutt a guy in armor leaves Vin with a split skull, pewter or no, duraluminum plus pewter or no. So what does the Mistborn do once they get in close, hit that one in a million shot and the Radiant doesn't die?

I'll throw my hat in the ring again regarding the 2 arguments going on right now. Mistborn has Atium. Mistborn hits Radiant while burning Atium. Then what? Does that hit kill the Radiant filled to the brim with Stormlight? Nope, that guy is going to heal, nearly instantly depending upon how much Stormlight held and severity of the wound. Atium could be effective but if I were a Mistborn I'm doing my best to pick my moment, watch the glow, keep my distance. Atium only helps me if I can one hit kill my opponent. A bladed Radiant is going to be hard enough to do that to. One with plate too? Only the best of my kind (Vin) stands even a glimmer of a chance. Re: Kaladin vs Yelig namaram Anytime you fight someone outside your weight class there is little chance that you will dominate them. David beating Goliath is only notable because that isn't the usual outcome. Therefore, saying Kaladin only got his hits in because of Amaram's guilty conscience is denying Kaladin's initiative in taking advantage of a tactical edge, one that he in part created by verbally challenging Amaram. End of the day, he won. He had help but he won. If I recall correctly, Vin is in the same spot when she faced TLR. Fighting out of her weight class? Definitely. Did she take advantage of a tactical edge? Yes, TLR's overconfidence. Did she have help? Marsh was there and she got a not insignificant boost from the mists. Was she at the height of her powers at the time? Nope, and neither was Kaladin. They're roughly at the same point in their development. Last, we don't know how good Kaladin really is yet. We don't have the finished product. Vin kills him now, who is to say he loses after his 5th ideal?

I wouldn't see it being a problem for an Honorblade to transverse the CR. The power of the Honorblades come directly from the Spiritual Realm where all places are one. Being connected in such a way should mean that they aren't restricted by location as spren, natives of Roshar and the CR obviously are. Only problem that I can see is that you won't get surges out of them unless you also have a direct plug in to the SR. The properties of soul severing and dismissal should still be intact but without Stormlight you just get a really really sharp sword. Something intriguing to me, if someone from another world, someone like a Returned with a direct feed to a different shard got ahold to an Honorblade, would it grant it's user Rosharan surges by other fuel, grant different types of power depending upon which Shard is doing the fuelling or would it not work at all? I'd probably want to see Vasher steal an Honorblade and run off to Nalthis just to see what happens.

I believe that's where he kept Glys.

That's why I said Vin isn't the ideal baseline for Mistborn. She has accomplished things before ascending than anyone in history, plus she had 2 Shards siding her at times. Kaladin isn't atypical yet but has a fair chance to be as well, so although he's going to be the most visible Windrunner he probably shouldn't be considered baseline either.

Luckily there's no such thing as a naturally occurring Fullborn. I have to believe that any attempt to create one gets squashed by Shardic intervention. I'd be more worried if Odium was running Scadrial though.

Let us note that at the time Kaladin fought Amaram he'd already been fighting for hours on very little Stormlight. He got refilled when Dalinar went God mode but he was still fatigued, fighting against a fresh opponent, and unfamiliar with Surges other than his own. I dare say the fight is different if he'd come at Amaram at the start of the day rather than at the end.

Things I hope to see but probably won't: Cultivation's name All of the Nahel Spren Advanced fabrial tech Someone on screen being bad chull with living Shardplate, as well as the once and for all settlement of what living Shardplate is comprised of (non sapient spren vs solid Stormlight) All the Orders' 1st unique Oath More hidden worldhoppers Vivienda Clarified history of Roshar What the black sphere is

The Hemalurgic alluminum frag grenade method won't work to strip power; hemalurgy works by intent only. It could make wounds that will be difficult to heal until the fragment is extracted but it will not take the powers away. We're going to need a traitor in his midst to get close enough, an ettmetal bomb strapped to the guy's body, strong cologne to attempt to mask the smell of explosives, and a hug similar Brutus, aluminum knife in hand. Go in for the hug, stab the Fullborn, detonate the bomb. No monologues, soliloquies or last words allowed. Only by disintegrating the Fullborn can he be killed. I'm also holding out hope that a super powered Elsecaller can Soulcast his metals away from the CR to make him at least a little more manageable.

The purpose of the OP was to illustrate the Mistborn combat mastery over any other being in the Cosmere. We came up with several examples of those that could beat a Mistborn in all their glory, but of all these the Radiant is the one that comes into question the most. The entire post is about speculation because some of these groups have never been seen let loose in combat against equivalent opposition. The Mistborn is the only group that we've seen fight at the height of their power. Vin is, in my opinion, not a good baseline for the average Mistborn. She killed a Fullborn, something that should have been impossible. She took on 13 Steel Inquisitors at the top of Kredik Shaw, Inquisitors who were as close to Fullborn as Ruin was willing to make them, and broke them all. So could she beat Kaladin, someone who currently has no Shardplate and isn't at full power? Of course she could. Then again, with his importance to the storyline, he has a fair chance to become atypical as well. Really what we should be looking at is what the average Mistborn could accomplish given all Era 1 knowledge (no Mistborn in Era 2 so far). So let's say Shan Elarial has to take on the best and brightest the Cosmere has to offer. Could she perhaps beat a Radiant without Shardplate? Not sure, it's probably close. Is Shan beating a Radiant with Plate and super efficient with Stormlight? To me that's a hard no. So if we're talking average, who wins in a fight, Shan or Teft? Kelsier's old teacher or the Lopen? Elend or Malata?

Let's start off with what we know, or think we know, about Investiture. It rides along with matter and energy as a force that cannot be created or destroyed, only transferred or changed. Adonalasium built the Cosmere and is/was the ultimate source of Investiture. Investiture generally flows from the Spiritual Realm down to the Physical. It can be naturally drawn or willfully drawn by intent. Investiture is coded. Shards code Investiture through Connection, while users of Investiture code their specific uses of Investiture through Identity. Blank Investiture's natural inclination is to seek Connection as a means to direct itself. If one does not code blank Investiture then the magic will eventually forge its own entity with which to connect. I throw this list out to serve as a framework for the questions I ask the fandom to ponder upon. I have no theories, yet I hope this post sparks a couple, or at the very least some good discussion. These deal directly with the history of the Cosmere. As we know, Uncle Addie built the Cosmere, to what purpose if any is unclear. With the exception of Scadrial, all the Cosmere planets were built before the Shattering. We also know that magic existed pre Shattering. First question, did all the magics we've seen on screen so far exist then as well, in one form or another. We already know Lightweaving had a Yolish variant and that it can still be performed if one has the knowledge (thanks Hoid). Are there others? And if there are, did they require an original Connection to Adonalasium or can those magics still be done today? Next came the Shattering, an event that changed both everything and nothing. The Shards decided to go their separate ways and they kinda did that. How much of a hurry were they to go and invest a planet? Did those planets already have magic systems and if so, who was controlling magic access before the Shard got there? How does magic change once a Shard gets involved? And are Shards drawn to planets where their Intent is expressed more strongly (Cultivation on Roshar for example)? And what about planets with magic but no Shard present. Who controls access to magic there? Or is there a default condition set up under Adonalasium, one that changes once a Shard becomes involved?

Addressing the Shardblade issue word_thief What would happen if a Mistborn ingested the metal of a Shardblade/Plate? Brandon Sanderson A Shardblade is Invested. A Mistborn isn't likely to have a tie to that type of Investiture. So probably nothing would happen… General Twitter 2013 (Oct. 24, 2013) So the Mistborn could try it but, well, his eyes are smoke. For the Atium alloys: In a thousand years people have only come up with one alloy. The metal is too expensive and rare for people to experiment with. And now it's completely unavailable, Marsh has the only stash left (good luck taking it from him). So if we're doing a fair fight we can do it one of two ways. Either the Mistborn gets Atium like an Era 1 guy, or he gets medallions guns and primer cubes like era 2. Having both is unrealistic without Shardic intervention, ie Sazed puts the Pits of Hathsen back into production. On the dominance of Atium: Atium is great but I can think of several ways to checkmate it were I a Knight of 4 or 5 Oath. Soulcast their metals into smoke, Transport to a realm they cannot enter, turn their weapons to rubber, throw something big enough so that they cannot dodge, make them decay at a touch. I'm not saying a Radiant cannot be killed by someone burning Atium, but their margins for error are nearly nonexistent. But I respect your opinion as well as everyone else who believes as you do. We can agree to disagree.

What Godmetals are available to Vin? Atium and Lerasium are functionally extinct and no other Shards have an investment in Scadrial so that they'd provide a burnable metal. About the only Godmetel that anyone could get ahold of currently is Trellium and who knows what it can do (can't burn Harmonium and it will not distill into Lerasium/ Atium). As for the Temporal metals, Vin had Atium and electrum already. For combat they are far superior to Bendalloy and Cadmium. Nicrosil may be of some use but I am not sure how much. In short, Vin's natural arsenal cannot be improved upon imo.

I agree. Problem is, while the Mistborn books have a complete arc done and we have seen most of their abilities in action, we have to speculate for the Radiant side. We don't yet know the properties of live plate so we must speculate based off of context clues. And while it's reasonable to assume that live plate performance far outstrips dead plate considering the jump from dead eyes to live spren blades we haven't seen it on screen. Also, we've never seen the greater power of the surges or a Full 5 Radiant in action, we just speculate based on Kaladin's progress and how much power he gains after his level ups. We don't even really know why the Heralds are supposed to be miles above the Radiants just because of their direct feed of Investiture. I understand why some would think a Mistborn would beat a Radiant hands down. Seeing is believing as it were. But I disagree even though I must extrapolate to do so. My reasoning is simple. People with these abilities destroyed a planet. A God was afraid that they'd destroy another. The forces that they command warp landscapes. The most powerful Mistborn we've ever seen killed an army, sure, but could her power set create the Shattered Plains? I'm speculating but I believe it's based on a solid foundation. Could final form Vin beat 3rd Oath Kaladin? Probably, though she'd find it much harder than she'd initially anticipated. Could Elend? I don't think so. Now imagine Kal with a set of living Shardplate and full command of his Surges. There's nothing Vin can do against that unless she ascends. Now Vin is the most talented Mistborn ever created; a regular, baseline Mistborn won't be nearly as talented or skilled, isn't nearly as deadly. If the Ascendant Warrior would have a problem with someone not even at final form then the average Mistborn would not stand a chance. If it's an opponent Vin can't beat then we can safely say that Mistborn aren't winning. Give Vin a gun with aluminum bullets and the fight gets closer, give her medallion tech and primer cubes and it gets closer still. But at that point Vin becomes Batman, less about the abilities and more about the tools.

Pewter isn't granting that much of a speed increase, otherwise they'd look like steelrunners everytime they flare their metal. They may receive a bit of a boost due to their increased strength and dexterity but Allomancy has an upper limit. Furthermore, that stone is way heavier than any 6 kg. Szeth cuts a stone slab out of the wall as tall as he is. A standard head size stone may be 6 kg but that isn't what hit the shardbearer. Finally, which is harder, bone or Shardplate? Even if a Duraluminum fueled pewter punch moved as fast as stated and applied that much force, the result would break the Mistborn's hand even if it shattered the Radiant helm too. I think a Mistborn will have a chance against lower level Radiants, ones without access to blade or plate, ones that are inefficient with their stormlight usage. But as they get higher in Oaths, it becomes more impossible for that Mistborn to bring enough power to the table to incapacitate or kill the guy straight up. A 5 Oath Radiant is akin to an Abrams Tank with magic. And a Mistborn defense isn't nearly as strong.

Kinda sounds like the the movie Click. May not go all that well if you get addicted or try to have a family.

A 50 ton rock monster did its best to crush a plate-less Renarin and could not manage the task. Is a pewterarm stronger than a Thunderclast? A chasmfiend hit Dalinar, Adolin, and Elkohar with a massive claw, yet that impact didn't destroy their plate. Are we to suppose a Thug could do better, even with duraluminum? Allomancy power output is limited. A Mistborn is, for all his or her power, ultimately a man killer. Radiants are built to defend against natural disasters and extinction level events. The only way for the Mistborn to ensure victory is if they do things to keep the Radiant from bringing their abilities to bear. A knife in the dark. Because taking one head on is a losing proposition.

A Full Feruchemist would be much better equipped to fight a KR than a Mistborn imo. Armor doubling as metalminds so as to resist a Shardblade in a limited way, increased mental and physical speed and weight to dodge surges, increased strength and healing for close range combat, I imagine they'd be a nasty surprise for any Radiant for as long as their metal stores held out. The only issue is fuel. They cannot easily replenish their stores.

I'm going to have to disagree with you there. I believe a duraluminum fueled pewter punch may be barely strong enough to shatter the helmet, though even that's debatable. It's not going to knock off the Radiant's head. And if that Mistborn cannot one shot kill the Radiant at that close range then the guy is dead, for he would have expended all his pewter and wouldn't be able to get away to refuel. Meanwhile he's in front of a very pissed off Radiant who has lost none of his combat effectiveness.

What is a Mistborn going to do to a Radiant in living Shardplate? Can't push or pull on it without duraluminum, and if they are actually able to manage it they can dismiss it instantly and reform it. No weapon is breaking plate with one shot. They cannot outrun the Radiant and cannot outmaneuver 4 of the orders, the two gravitation and the two transportation, plus they can't fight close range with Edgedancer/ Dustbringer either.

Why would Sadeas of all people become guardian of Dalinar's wife and children had Dalinar fallen? He's not a Kholin and Gavilar still lives.

The consensus seems to be either a sneak attack with an aluminum spike or an ettmetal bomb to the face. I could imagine either approach working, though I'd attempt to opt for stealth first; I'd rather not ruin an entire continent. Speaking of explosions, I still like the idea of drawing the Fullborn into a leecher field then detonating a bomb while he has no access to kinetic investiture. Or we can get snipers with aluminum bullets. Fun ideas all.

The thing that makes a Fullborn so blasted dangerous is Compounding. I mean the Mistborn power set is nearly broken already but but adding near infinite feruchemical stores on top of that? It's gonna be a bad day for most anyone that has to face that monster. To defeat that guy, therefore, one must find a way to deprive him or her of either Allomancy or Feruchemy, making them a much more manageable adversary. Easier said than done amirighte? That being said, I believe the key to defeating a Fullborn lies in technology that isn't yet available in the books but should be theoretically possible to create. We've already seen primer cubes at work. With a little research and a lot of trial and error I believe that field can be greatly expanded. Imagine someone holding a leecher field with the range of, say a city block. Get in range of the guy, turn on the field, and move quickly to subdue the target. I'm certain that a fabrial could be constructed to create a similar effect. Put Vasher back in the researchers lab. He's already created Nightblood, this should not be too much a stretch of his capacity.

First, that was a limited Inquisitor, not one of the Ruin modified ones. Those guys only had Allomancy spikes and so were only slightly better than the average Mistborn. Second, Kelsier was a genius with Iron and Steel, possessing a skill that only Vin, The Ascendant Warrior herself, could approach. Three, even for Kelsier the first tactic was always to run rather than face an inquisitor. As far as using that tactic against a Radiant, overwhelming them isn't quite as easy as all that. And most of the surges can counter that rain of steel to a greater or lesser degree. The emotional allomancy would probably work better considering how spren choose Radiants, but then again they could be fortified against such tampering due to Spren merging their Spirit web with their Radiant. @Oltux72 Tin augments all physical senses equally. But the surge of Illumination can cover both sight and sound. Moments matter in battle; if I can distract you with a sound or maybe an image flickering out the corner of your eye, or make you flinch with an intense light or sound I can gain a fatal advantage. For mobility and range of Spren, see Kaladin and Syl in the war camps. A-Bronze could sense them maybe, but the guy has to be at least proficient at it as Marsh was, and likely much better since they'd be sensing something in a foriegn magic system.