Appol PhD

Additional content warnings for torture and ableist slur usage. We're getting into the climactic conflict here, revolving around J's dynamic with his doppelganger. Any insight on their interactions would be especially helpful. Thanks as always!

I think even if it's a semi-friendly contest it still runs into the issue of feeling like a bit of a distraction from the story, since right now it feels like there's no reason the story has to show it all in scene. I feel like usually when arguments work well in fiction, it's around specific decisions with clear weight that characters are making based on their ideology rather than the ideology itself. So I guess my advice would be tackle it from a different angle and focus on where you want these characters to have agency in the plot, and how ideological debates can work into that. Though as always any prescriptive suggestion I can give may or may not be a good fit for your story.

Hi @Silk I'll take a slot for tomorrow please!

Overall: I like the idea of S and A’s worldviews coming into clash in the form of this competition, but I think there’s a lot of work to be done here for a few reasons: -Everything about it feels a bit arbitrary in how it comes up and how it’s decided. When characters have to make progress by winning debates, usually the story has to concrete lines of logic for them to follow. While reading, I was comparing this to courtroom scenes where it’s very clear what characters have to prove and how they’re supposed to go about proving it (and also that it’s in a controlled setting rather than popping up impromptu) -There’s not a lot of fanfare to it. Obviously not everything has to be a big climactic moment but for the focus to be on proving such a fundamental principle it doesn’t feel like there’s a lot at stake. -Whether or not the world is good or evil doesn’t seem to be something that’s an important idea of the story outside of this. A’s goal of stopping S isn’t really affected by whether or not she thinks the world is good, so it doesn’t feel as connected to the big themes of the story as it seems like it wants to be. This culminates in the feeling that—and forgive me for this being pretty blunt—this passage feels less like it’s part of a story and more like I’m overhearing an argument while walking down the street. Like I said, I do like the idea, but I have a hard time seeing this working without some pretty major changes to how it’s framed. As I go: Pg 1. I do think S beginning to take on the human attributes of people it absorbs is a good arc, though I think we’re missing some narrative tension by it happening mostly in these lowkey moments. Pg 5. I’m still mostly engaged but it feels like we’re getting a bit distracted from the objective here. Pg 6. I think I mentioned this last time but while it’s a fun idea the bet doesn’t feel super substantial to me because it seems to come up on its own without being super connected to the rest of what’s going on. Also, is there anything actually forcing them to keep their end of the deal if they lose? Pg 7. Is this world capitalist? I assumed it had a market economy but not a corporation and venture capital system. -D feeling like this is a distraction is kind of the way I’m feeling. In addition to the above point about the bet not gripping me S’s setup is pretty long-winded here. Pg 8-9. I get that the flashback is supposed to hit at larger ideas for the story, but the whole debate about whether the world is good or evil is one I haven’t been hooked by so it feels like we’re just getting a flashback for a minor character I’m not invested in. Pg 11. A’s belief that pain makes her stronger is something I’ve been interested in tracking, but I don’t think it coming out in a debate with S is the right place. I think we need something more solid than S talking to her to challenge this worldview. Pg 12. I think another issue is that when the decision of who gets the point feels arbitrary like it does in this case, it’s hard to be invested. Pg 15-16. Similar comments with this debate. Watching them argue about abstract concepts without clear systems for how they’re supposed to prove the intangible makes this feel a bit arbitrary.

Hi everyone, We're getting close to the end, with this submission building us up to the climax. The climax plays out in the next two, and the last submission will be mostly denouement. Any feedback is helpful, and I'd also like people to keep this section in mind for when the climax hits and think if there's anything that could use more/better leadup. Thanks!

Hi @Silk, sorry for the late notice but could I go for today too? I meant to ask yesterday but forgot lol

Additional content warning for light torture. Also we're a bit over word count limit this time, but I couldn't find a good place to cut it off in between 3k and 5k words. Hi everyone, This is the end of 4th arc and the start of the last one. I'm not super happy with how the 4th arc ends, and I'm trying to find ideas for reworking the entire "J gives them a pep talk at the end and they find the willpower to beat their doppelganger" way that most of these arcs have ended, so any comments and suggestions are appreciated. For this last arc, I think it's important for the story that the interpersonal dynamic in ch 27 lands well, so any insight there would be super helpful. Thanks a ton!

I'll take a slot for tomorrow please @Silk!

Yeah, I think the tone shift is part of why it felt a bit off to me. Thanks for the feedback!

Overall: I like most of the ideas here, though as indicated I don’t think it comes up super naturally. I don’t think it’s too goofy though; the tone feels about right for the story to me. I’ve touched before on how right now the flow of the story doesn’t feel super controlled and things seem to come up out of nowhere; I think that’s the kind of thing where the story needs to have a clearer idea of how to force the issue. If S and A are going to have this bet, what’s the kind of situation where both characters feel like they need to do this? Another throughline I commented on here is that most of the dynamics feel like they could use more complexity. One thing I liked about A’s discussion of parenthood last time is that it did feel raw and complicated; she really wants to fall in love and live a normal life but even in her moments of joy there’s this threat of her passing on her condition. We don’t get much of that here, with A and S both digging in their heels and arguing their one broad viewpoint. As I go: Pg 1-2. I like J working with S to make something happen, though I think we could get to the relevant parts faster. Pg 3. "Me-forsaken place" is pretty funny, though I still don’t feel like the narrator is doing a ton for the story Pg 4. I like the idea of A viewing her pain as necessary and us reading around her to see it’s not doing her any favors, and I think it could be fleshed out more. Right now the dynamic feels a bit simple Pg 5. I think we’re supposed to see T’s behavior here as a concern, but it also feels like something that needs a bit more for us to work with Pg 8. I said before that I like S needling A during serious scenes, but I don’t think it works as well in PU because S isn’t really involved with the conflict here, so it feels like it’s butting in out of nowhere rather than as the antagonist Pg 10-11. I like the idea of throwing complexity and uncertainty into A’s dynamic with J, and I’d like to see it come from more than just S’s dialogue because it doesn’t let us explore a ton about A’s character in regards to this Pg 13. I’ve been prefacing a lot of comments with this, but I like the idea here and think it could be refined. I think the limitations are 1. A and S are kind of black and white in this argument and 2. There’s no reason this has to happen now or a clear plot connection, so it feels a bit out of nowhere Pg 14. I feel like they’re skipping over that neutral spell bit rather quickly. I doubt S believes it’s actually neutral, since I assume it’s crafted by humans for human sensibilities

Additional content warning for discussions of torture. Hi everyone, There's a specific reference throughout that I really wanted to put in here, but I'm not sure if it actually makes the story better, so I'm curious to hear thoughts on that. Beyond that I'm not quite satisfied with the dynamic between J and P, so any advice there would be helpful. Thanks!

I'll take a slot for tomorrow please @Silk!

In that case, I think this is a potential opportunity when revising. If there are story mechanics focusing A and S to be dealing with each other more, the story can lean on this as its strength. We already have it to some degree with A being linked to S and viewing it as a prisoner, and I think it could be even more pronounced. It's hard to know what needs to be cut vs reframed, but in my observations: -Most of what happens between L shattering S and A going to PU doesn't feel necessary -Most of the scenes in PU feel like they could be a lot shorter to get the gist of what's going on--honestly we could probably spend 4-7k words there and properly get the background and emotional stakes (though this is coming from someone who aims for a super fast pace at all times) What's been most helpful for me when revising early drafts is rewriting pretty much everything from scratch without really looking at the previous draft much, since the general sections that feel like they drag on too long naturally get condensed without me having to worry about continuity or pace breaking. But of course that's a lot of time, so you have to pick your poison.

All right time to get into this week’s submission! Overall: Mostly similar comments as before. I think the different factions/people with their different perspectives and plans are good for setting up a complicated situation, though I noted a few times in the LBLs where we could use more context. In particular, I think it’s important to get some insight on what the kidnappers are after. My biggest hangup continues to be C’s characterization, particularly as a protagonist. The chapter where she’s kidnapped highlights the fact that she hasn’t gotten to do much proactive the entire story so far, and it feels like the events of the story mostly happen the same way regardless of what kind of person she is, meaning there’s not a lot of reason to be engaged with her characterization. As I go: Pg 1. I’m confused how we got from the end of ch 5 to here -Oh is she like virtually out here? Still not 100% sure what’s happening Pg 2. Does that mean C was also trained as an assassin, or are the V elite warriors in a broader sense? Either way, her reactions and actions so far haven’t struck me as belonging to someone with elite weapons training Pg 4. I think I need more details about why this is happening to be fully invested Pg 5. Similar thoughts here. I like the idea of the mystery around his mission, but I need more to grapple with upfront Pg 7-8. I’m reading this as a mundane picture, but because it’s SFF I’m not quite sure. Either way, the fact that we don’t know much about M’s relationship to his mom makes it feel like he’s mostly externalizing thoughts about C that we mostly already understand by now. I like the bits we do get about his mom though. Pg 10-11. I’m not getting much out of this conversation. Some of it we already know, and some we don’t have the context for so even if it does become important later I won’t know to focus on it. Pg 12-14. The only active characters right now are the kidnappers, who don’t have super engaging characterization right now. Also I’d recommend sexual assault content tags for scenes like this even though it doesn’t fully get there. Pg 15-16. Again, the lack of context (intentional or not) means it’s hard to be fully engaged when I don’t know who could be attacking the kidnappers or why. Maybe it’s the V to keep things on rails but shouldn’t he be capable of just killing them right away?

Excited to dig in! Overall: I found the scenes here to be engaging, and I’m more invested in this thread than what’s happening with L and B. I think the story’s overall best dynamic is A being super serious and S cutting the tone with humor. That way we get to have a feeling of a character on a deep and serious mission while still maintaining the lighthearted tone. I mention this a bit in LBLs, but overall my biggest hangup is the flow of the larger story. What we get here is good, but it doesn’t feel like it’s part of connected thematic or story arcs. A seeing Le’s memories is good, but the fact that it happens just because she pesters S enough makes it feel a bit disconnected. And on a larger scale, I’m not sure what this story is really about right now. If it’s about A hunting down S, there really hasn’t been much progress there in a long time. If it’s about PU manipulating things, all we have right now are some vague warnings that don’t give us much to grapple with. Obviously the story should be about multiple things; I’m just not sure how to read it right now. Oh, and I thought the sex/childbirth/motherhood thing was handled well and was the most interesting dynamic here, including being fodder for S to cut in with quips. I think it helped that it felt like it was more about parenthood than motherhood specifically, since it doesn't feel like the story is focused on womanhood. As I go: Pg 1. I like these interactions, though I’m still having a bit of a hard time seeing the larger story Pg 3. Another example of this. I like the scene and it’s good to let us read around S as it develops a conscience, but I can’t tell what the story’s really about or where it’s taking us right now. Pg 4. This continues to be entertaining, though I’m also realizing I haven’t been able to get much of a read on D (though now that I’m writing this out I remember mentioning this before) Pg 5. Now that this is being lampshaded, it’s making me wonder if Li is her birth mom Pg 6. I like this from a character perspective, but it feels a bit out of nowhere that S can do this (though maybe it’s been brought up before and I just forgot) Pg 8. This is a good character moment, though I feel like there could be more leadup Pg 10. I do like the dynamic of S cutting through serious situations with humor Pg 11. What about the other Ss? Does A just think it’s not worth the trouble of hunting them down?

Late to the party but hopefully better late than never! Overall: C and M’s push and pull here is fun, and I think I like M better as a morally grey character than a villain, and I’m not sure which one he is right now. These read pretty well overall and I liked the way a lot of the worldbuilding exposition connected directly to the conflict at hand so it didn’t feel super info-dumpy. I think the biggest area of improvement for me is C’s characterization. Right now it doesn’t feel like she has a lot of distinct traits, skills, or goals, essentially acting and reacting in a way that makes sense for her situation but doesn’t tell me a ton about her as a person. The most distinct character detail we get is that she defends her father, which still feels like pretty standard behavior. As I go: Pg 1. I get that the story needs them to have a chat before the king dies, but with how effective the assassin seemed to be why is he able to stay alive for this long? Pg 3. It’s good to get some of the broader context here Pg 5. The internality could probably be cut back a bit but I am more engaged in M’s PoV than C’s so far—him being kind of an asshole but still pragmatic has more threads for the story to develop Pg 7. I think another thing that’s missing is C’s goals. M has a plan and knows what he needs to do, but C feels a bit aimless here. Which makes sense given her circumstances, but it makes me wonder if her story is actually starting here. Pg 8. Hopefully this leads into the goals I mentioned last page, though I do think it would be ideal to get them earlier. Pg 11. This is a fun family conflict between the three and I’d like to see it be more present. -Also was C’s plan that she realized at the end of the last chapter just talking to M? Pg 14. Most of M’s section here feels like rehashing what we already know; I think the only thing I really took away is that he hasn’t told her the full truth about what their dad was after. Pg 16. Liking this section so far. Knowing that someone on the inside was helping the assassin raises the stakes and hints that C will be in danger. Pg 18. I assumed C’s motivation for investigating herself would be not trusting the people in the palace Pg 19. I think the pieces are mostly here for this to work, but the foreshadowing could be clearer. I’m assuming that the fact that there’s a traitor on the inside disabling security systems is what let the attacker slip in, but why didn’t anyone consider that possibility?

Hi everyone, We're starting off a new plot arc this time, the fourth out of five. It changes up the formula a bit, but I also wasn't super confident in it while writing it so I'm curious how it comes across. Thanks!

In that case I think my biggest suggestion is for the drug to be fleshed out more, which I think is a bit tricky with how it's hard to make dynamic characterization around it. Basically, with everything that happens the actual factor determining the plot is V being given this drug, and everything else sets up the situation (I didn't recognize this at first, which is why I thought the first few pages weren't necessary). The question is, how to give the story more substance than a character takes a drug and turns violent? We don't know a lot about this drug (even compared to the magic, where we know it's persecuted), and it feels like it's overriding V's character rather than fleshing it out by forcing him to do something he would never do otherwise if that makes sense. Would the drug turn anyone violent in V's situation, or is it something about him that creates his warped perception? It's good that we have the specks to explore his internality, but that doesn't give me enough on how his characterization interacts with the drug.

That was what I considered the most likely explanation for what was happening on a literal level, and like I said I think it's good for the ending to be so striking I don't quite get it right away, so I definitely don't think we need more exposition about what's going on. Instead, my suggestion is for the story to focus more on writing around the event. Being a mistreated prisoner alone doesn't just make someone kill their friend at the sight of a certain image. Is V's mental state being influenced by his magic? If so, why is L not watching out for this? Has V killed a lot of people before, or is he just in a state of mind where he barely even noticed that he killed someone? Fleshing the characters out more earlier will help give us tools to work through the ending without having to edit it directly.

I'll have a slot for tomorrow too please!

Excited to dig into this new story! Overall: There are a lot of pieces here for a solid story, and I was generally engaged with the core conceit of a captured ritual mage who can potentially use their powers to escape, but the powers are also potentially dangerous or make them dangerous. There are a few things I’d suggest focusing on: -Character writing. What do we know about V other than the fact that he’s a ritual mage who got captured? What do we know about L besides the fact that she wants to rescue him? (I’m also not sure how much of this is just in his mind, including L’s existence). -We don’t really get the situation of the story until page 5. Obviously it doesn’t need to tell us all the info right away, but most successful stories make it clear what they’re about in the first paragraph. -The magic and ties into the ending. I see the callbacks to the beginning and I like that there’s something unexpected that I don’t quite get right away, but right now I’m not sure what the specks and the gold mean other than being a part of his magic, which means I don’t have enough to go off of when reading the ending. As I go: Pg 1. The initial focus is on the specks, but we don’t have a hook right off the bat for why that matters to the character. -So from the bottom of the page it seems like the protag is a prisoner being interrogated? If there’s something that stands out about the situation, that might be a better hook. Pg 2. Not sure if the earthquakes are just the protag’s perception or a magical thing Pg 3. The old craft is what I’m most interested by. Seems like the protag is a young imprisoned boy with some sort of ritual supernatural training, which has the potential for fun dynamics, and I think we need to see them right away. All of the info I mentioned so far could be conveyed in the first paragraph. Pg 5. The magic is the first thing that really gives the story its own distinct angle. As a thought experiment, if we start the story right here then what are we missing? Pg 6. Introducing another character here is a great opportunity for a dynamic, and I think we need more from L besides the fact that that she wants to rescue V. Pg 8. Is one of the guards giving him a painkiller here? Right now this doesn’t quite feel like it fits into the plot of the story, since the guards have been more of a threat than characters for V to interact with. Pg 9. All right, at this point I’m pretty lost.

Overall: My gut reaction is that we need to learn more about PU in this chapter instead of more vague warnings (or really that we needed to learn more about them a while ago), but I think the core issue is that the vague mystery feels like all there really is right now. I think the story can keep its cards about PU close to its chest if necessary, but it could use a more defined sense of progression either about PU or something else. As I go: Pg 1-2. I can see the intent of setting up a new dynamic for L, but it feels more like we’re getting exposition about why things are going bad for her Pg 5. It doesn’t feel like I really know what’s going on either, which is making it hard to be fully engaged Pg 6. I think it’s good that B isn’t giving this as exposition but it also feels a bit drawn out to make L figure it out Pg 7. So the issue is just that PU could mess up the spell and blow up the world? It feels like that doesn’t give the story a ton to grapple with Pg 8. At risk of repeating myself, it feels like there’s not enough going on for this mystery to hold my attention. It seemed like we were going to get answers here but after multiple pages of talking it feels like all we have are more vague hints. Pg 10. Is L actually going with this plan of turning herself in? It would be good to have more of a defined plot arc for her which that could provide, but I’m also not sure why she isn’t just running away and hiding since that seems to be her characterization thus far. Maybe an opportunity to dig into her character more?

Hi everyone, The first chapter is more of the same--I'd like to know if the confrontation here feels too formulaic. For the second chapter, I tried going for a more relaxed and lower conflict angle for the romantic subplot, and I'm curious how that comes across. Thanks!

I'll have a slot too please @Silk!

Thanks for the feedback! Part of the reason I've been talking about narrative cause and effect a lot is because it's been hard for me in this story, with characters' mental states being hard to coerce into something that follows those rules (in other words, J's actions need to get them to a better mental state instead of them just happening to get there after he does some stuff, which is hard). I think that's part of what you're seeing here, and that's really helpful to know!