alder24

Well, they store untill they get full, then switch for new one. We never really get to see Malwish perspective so we don't know, but this is what I've always assumed. Then Wax has a pair of iron bracers he wears on his upper arms, and he stores 25% of his weight constantly. This can accumulate over years yet he never had to switch them. Yes, he uses that on several occasions, but still years of storing weight never filled even one of them. It means metal can store a lot of attributes. Like Sazed’s copperminds that stored everything in them. They use warmth and connection medallions which they tap to draw those attributes, and the warmth is filled by special people, so medallions have to work in both ways, with limited attribute. Yeah a typical ferring wont be able to fully fill a bracer, but a compounder would. So as long as your character is only a Ferring, he can have just one metalmind, but as a compounder he needs multiple.

Yes, it can be two punches. What I imagine a Shardplate segment would do when struck by such force is that the center, where it was hit, would collapse inwards, while the explosion outwards would be all around it, allowing a Fullborn to just punch through it. With zinc you could momentarily spot the damage done by a Shardblade to your body and deduce what caused it, as there is only one option possible - Shardblade. The thing is, as Wax noted, everything is made out of the same stuff - people, souls, physical stuff, and power. It's the same thing. And if you can learn to see more detailed steelsight, then you can see beyond metal or investiture. But I don't agree that god metals in general are just invisible to electrum/atium and steelsight, but this is pure speculation so there is no point in arguing about it. For the sake of discussion I'm assuming they can't be seen by electrum shadows, but the effects of Shardblade's strikes can be. I don't know, I think it depends on the type of connection. Ishar just connected them to the ground, so their body thought it's a ground. But the ground connection people experience on a regular basis would be a different type of connection, gravitational one. So it wouldn't go that far, it might just at worst increase the gravitational acceleration felt by them. But then there is a little gremlin in your calculations - Miles. He spent 15 years in the Roughs as a lawman, constantly using his Health to heal even serious wounds (like dynamite exploding in his hand to get rid of nets). The fact that he can heal a gunshot wound just as a bullet is passing through him, or fall from heights and break his legs, healing them as they break, tells me that he was compressing his healing dozens of times for every wound, and yet he never even feared running out of stored health. Your calculations don't support what Miles was doing, as he started early as in the Roughs and doesn't spend decades on storing his health, nor did he have to replenish his attributes after spending a lot of health. Then again, duralumin boosted compounding is a speculation on my side, based on the WoB telling that you can move attribute from one metalmind to the other, without losing much of it, and therefore you aren't using that attribute, investiture does flow through you, which would probably lead you closer to savantism, if you aren't one already.

I don't think so, Honorblades work very similar to medallions, as they're Identity-free and give powers to everyone. While Honorblades provide surges and powers, those come from the connection to the blades themselves, but the investiture (Stormlight) used to come from Honor directly. However, now Honor is dead, and all users of Jezrien's Honorblade had to provide their own Stormlight (which doesn't mean they can't draw from Honor directly if they know it's possible). It's a speculation on my part. Firstly Sazed, Twindyll and all Terrismen were all ashamed that The Lord Ruler was a Terrisman. This shame is present among Terris in era 2 as well, to the point of them wanting to keep their blood pure and looking down on Allomancy. Secondly, he knows very well how dangerous a Fullborn can be, and how little can be done to oppose him - he himself is trapped by his powers and the most he would be able to do is to guide and send people like Wax to try to stop a Fullborn, which has little to no chance of success. Then there is his epilogue conversation with Kelsier, in which Kel argues that they need metalborns. It's not that he restrict them, it's that he could do more and even give those powers to people (especially during Catacendre, he could make several people into Mistborn/Feruchemist to kickstart a new line of potent metalborn, he did that only to Spook, he restrict the knowledge of Hemalurgy to the point of not allowing new generation of Kandra to be born, and makes Kollos reuse old spikes - but this is Hemalurgy). What I get from this is that Sazed is afraid of giving more powers to people and thus wouldn't want to create an artifact that gives unlimited Fullborn powers to everyone that has them, risking it getting into wrong hands, like Set. Kelsier ascended to Preservation, he could also have that knowledge. Moreover he is also the one that introduced medallions to Malwish, and Spook is the one that experimented with Hemalurgy. They both could have enough knowledge to create them. If creating the Bands requires you to permanently give your powers into nicrosilminds, and compounding them only makes them stronger, not multiplies them so you can't get them back, then it can explain why they didn't create more of them, as they had only 1 set of powers in the first place to give into the Bands. Why he has control over them, this isn't necessary at all, as Mists can work like a Stormlight if properly used. Bands might give you enough connection to Harmony due to duraluminmind, to allow you to use the Mist for fuel like you propose. Or it isn't necessary at all once Mists are stored in the Band. Storing Mists is a problem, as someone needs to first draw them in, and this can be done by establishing strong connection to Harmony via F-duralumin. But once they have Mists in their body, and assuming they can be stored in nicrosil, they can just do it and later use them without connection. Vin could draw Mists in as she had very strong connection to Preservation. So only this is required in the first place. I can get behind the idea that it was Harmony that orchestrated the Bands to get back to Malwish. I also like this idea, and there is even a WoB from The Hero of Ages Annotations that Sazed is likely not the last Feruchemist.

I think it works more like a tolerance, like to warmth/cold (Ham), the more pewter you burn and the more your soul is changing, the bigger the tolerance gets, this includes pain. But it will never be full tolerance. So while they don't feel pain, because their tolerance is so high, it could be brought down by tinminds enough, so they could feel at least the most severe wounds. I admit this is very speculative, and it might be like you said, but if it works like a tolerance, then your body can never achieve full tolerance to something, there is always a limit, and with tinminds you could bring it down so you could feel pain again.

1. A-electrum and F-zinc would allow you to process electrum shadows quickly which would make it more similar to Atium. Add F-chromium to the mix and you could get even better insight into the Spiritual Realm. 2. Maybe F-duralumin and emotional allomancy could make you better at both, with more controllable emotions and connections (like rioting trust and friendliness and then tapping connection to make someone even more friendly towards you). It could probably make some interesting effects. but this is very speculative. 3. Inquisitor's steelsight can not only be learned by a regular iron/steel Misting, but also stored/tapped in F-tin which could be helpful in seeing very minor details (like seeing fully behind walls). 4. A-pewter and F-bendalloy would allow you to safly drag pewter for longer time with energy and water provided from bendalloymind. 5. While I don't think there is that much health to be stored from A-pewter (but still is), there is a lot of strength, some physical speed, warmth, and even wakefulness, as Mistborn burning it doesn't need that much sleep (Vin was sleeping like 4h during HoA). 6. A-pewter with a combination of F-tin to tap pain stored in tinminds, can help you safely achieve savantism and use its powers without worrying you miss some serious wounds. 7. Additionally A-pewter with F-brass will allow you to strike burning punches, as you can heat up yourself to high temperatures, without suffering ill effects (https://wob.coppermind.net/events/105/#e1097), A-pewter with F-steel or F-iron would make your punches much stronger (Sazed tap F-iron when striking with a hammer to crush kandra's bones in HoA). 8. You want to skip even more time? Burn A-cadmium and store wakefulness with F-bronze. A-pewter forms a good combination with almost everything, as well as F-steel and F-zinc.

I don't think he can influence his god metal to such extent. Ruin didn't even know where his Atium was, nor did he notice at first that Elend's army was using Atium and he couldn't stop them or "tweak" the Atium to make it less helpful (or destry it like you suggest), and Harmony didn't know where the Harmonium bomb was. While it doesn't necessarily mean that Harmony can't influence his god metal in some way (in case of experiments he would know where it is), it certainly proves that Shards have limitations in that regard. Ruin had to metabolize Atium (whatever it means for Shards) to gain its power, so if Harmony tried to "destroy" Lerasium, I suspect he would need to do the same. He could do it, he certainly had a motive for it, I just find it very unlikely if not outright impossible.

No problem, my mistake. It's corrected now, so thanks for pointing it out.

I meant Lerasium Yes, this is another possibility, Sazed is lying. However it was noted by Kel at the end of SH that Sazed is a terrible liar. It's possible he learned how to lie in those years. But personally I believe he was telling the truth. It just makes it more interesting to try to figure out what is missing, then just getting a bag full of Lerasium in Era 3. They've tried this experiment several times, and possibly with much larger quantities of metals, and thus they got more Atium. How would he destroy Lerasium? Yes, it's his essence, but he is still mostly unable to act on his own. And then even during Wax's experiment, he didn't know/think it was possible. But I do agree, he definitely don't want to give Lerasium Mistborn powers to Scadrial.

Then why can't nobody repeat that after Wax's experiment? That's what Harmony said, they tried to replicate that and failed, they couldn't get Lerasium, only Atium is left. I do think that’s part of it, as kandra said before the experiment that Harmonium can't be split into Atium and Lerasium, and yet Wax managed to do it, but it's not the only thing. Intent might be another one, as Wax did it with the sole intent to create Lerasium and Atium (was it ever said if Set tried to get Atium/Lerasium from it? All I remember is that they did experiment with bombs but they did it to perfect the bomb, not create Atium/Lerasium). But that's not everything, as this should be repeated by those who know Lerasium was created by Wax, and yet it wasn't. Something is still missing.

Hmm, I always assumed that the Mist leaking was because of how saturated with investiture are the Bands - just like Nightblood is leaking them, however Bands are more "perfect" vessel, so when Marasi draws "everything at once" she fills herself and thus Investiture is leaking in form of Mists. But your comparison to Stormlight leaking and the human body being an imperfect container does make sense. However the Bands can't contain just Mist. Nicrosilmind must contain abilities to use all Allomantic and Feruchemical powers, otherwise Mist won't give you anything. So at the very least Nicrosil must store some normal type attribute. Moreover, we don't know if you can store this kind of investiture in nicrosil. All we know right now is that nicrosil stores the ability to use invested arts, not investiture itself, the only known example of other type of investiture being stored inside is Returned Breath, but regular Breaths or Stormlight are still unknown However this idea is still quite well made, and makes sense. It could be like this, and it would be a great way to cheat the system, and remain uncought. Kelsier's style. Personally I believe less and less that it was Kelsier that placed the Bands in that temple. I think they might get stolen from him, maybe even by Harmony, to prevent unrestricted Fullborn powers from spreading among people. It doesn't make sense why he would put the Bands so far away, if he keeps purified Dor closeby It could also explain how ReLuur found them so easily, as he might be the person that put them there in the first place. The only real argument in Kelsier's favor is that he wanted to speed up first contact between Malwish and the Basin, thus leading to technological progress and arms race. However his goal is to popularize metal arts among people, give them powers, and hiding the Bands in the middle of nowhere is the exact opposite of this. I disagree, Harmony acts to restrict the powers of Fullborn, and I doubt he would create such a thing and risk creating a new Rashek.

Hmm, now this is getting more equal. Fullborn loses his biggest advantage. Now he is only as fast on the ground as Winndruner, Fullborn has his speed because of A-pewter, Windrunner because of Stormlight and Shardplate. However Fullborn still can one punch kill a Windrunner, but now Windrunner has a "normal" reaction time, and can avoid it. Fullborn still can get few cuts from Shardblade and heal them, so he is more resilient than Windrunner, but now he has a hard time getting to him. Fullborn still has a zinc, his second biggest advantage, and can calculate in his mind where to stand and how to dodge and strike to reach Windrunner, but Windrunner, even if he can't think that fast, can still avoid him. If Windrunner is in the air, taking advantage of 15ft Shardspear, Fullborn can jump into the air and try catching him - it will be hard, as he can move out of the way, but still possible, but better to use steel pushes to get into the air, but Windrunner can outmaneuver him there. Fullborn needs only one punch to kill him (punching him in the helmet to penetrate it with his fist and crash skull beneath and leech), but now he has a much harder time catching him. Fullborn still has a bendalloy bubble, which will help him react and reposition very fast. Now Windrunner can do this "vacuum tunnel" thing and move mach 10, but it would actually be far more disadvantageous, than moving just out of Fullborn's reach, close and "relatively" slow, as with this tunnel, Windrunner still can't react to Fullborn, while Fullborn has some chances of avoiding it just narrowly, but using chromium fortune, zinc, electrum and bendalloy. I see the best tactic for a Windrunner to be cautious, close to a Fullborn but out of his reach, using Shardspear to slowly drain him out of gold healing and avoid his killing strikes. I give them 50-50 chances of winning this. Even if a Shardblade can't be seen by electrum, you can still see its effects, like limb going numb, tripping and stuff like that, and avoid that "general area". However you can learn to see steelsight like inquisitors do, and they can recognise Kandra, therefore they do see invested objects. So I think that with a bit of practice you would be able to see the Atium shadow of a Shardblade, and even its steel lines. That's a great defense to reverse lashing. I believe you could do it, compound with duralumin and store it straight into a new metalmind. You can do it with smaller metalminds, or with a small zincmind to help control it.

This. This is the best explanation.

I think it could be possible. However we don't know if this Bondsmith power is a thing restricted only to Radiant's due to their connection to Roshar and Honor, or it can be expanded further. Any set of powers have some sort of resonance between them so I find it likely that Bondsmith would be able to affect Allomancy. however I think it would look more like a nicroburst/duralumin, just giving or releasing more power, than some fancy stuff.

That's very nice math. I like it. But few notes - you can flare the compounding metal, making it burn much faster. And you can use duralumin, to release all power at once, which I believe could be stored into new metalminds if done fast enough with proper training. It can be dangerous but controllable: Next, instead of using a BB sized metalmind, you can start with a single flake, and later compound it to bigger and bigger size, cutting the initial storing time significantly. With this and duralumin trick, you are now not restricted by the time you need to accumulate big amounts of attributes. But you are still limited by a metal you can carry with you. I do believe that the metalminds can store more than you assumed, afterall Marasi in BoM was moving with supersonic speeds for long enough to notice people raising their hands to cover ears from a sonic boom. Yes, she was burning it at an extreme rate, but still that should be more than 0.1s. However it’s hard to put a good number on it, as all we have are assumptions at that point. To put that into perspective, in 3 minutes you would travel 18km. That's wild. Almost as fast as some jet airplanes (150-250 m/s).

I think too many spikes will still leave them susceptible to hemalurgic control, and there is also a limit of how many spikes can grant powers since Ruin and Preservation are Harmony. In BoM Telsin and Edwarn had only 3 spikes in them, I can't remember how many she had in TLM. But Dumad had 5 powers, one of them was most likely natural, so he had only 4 spikes, which gives Harmony ability to control, but Trellium hides them from him. That's all we know, Trellium hides, because Harmony didn't knew that metal, and couldn't find them. But Kandra are different. They aren't humans, they are hemalurgic constructs, they exist because of Hemalurgy. They need 2 spikes to function properly, but that doesn't leave opening too big to fully take control over them - just look in HoA, despite Ruin taking control of them, they had enough freedom to take away their spikes (I think TenSoon had 4 spikes at this moment, and was the most affected by Ruin's control? Can't remember that now).

It's possible, but the drop was hundreds of feet, and using terminal velocity calculator, if he decreased his mass to 1kg, he would have a 10.5 m/s terminal velocity, 5x lower than normal average terminal velocity for a person. Normally you fall for 12s and need 450m drop to reach terminal velocity, it seems to me he could reach it before getting to the ground. But we don't have numbers so. It's probably the best explanation there is right now. So fine with breaking laws of thermodynamics but not fine with breaking conservation of energy? That's totally like me!

10h for a ring? I think Sazed was filling his rings for either 3 days which lasted only for a few short bursts of power in a fight against Marsh. If Sazed slept only 6h a day, that would give him 54h of attributes in each ring - and we don't even know if that was a full ring. But that's only with 1 unit per 1h, WoB says they store 80%, so it would be 8 units per 1h for Average Man's Strength at 10, which would give 54*8 units of strength per 1h in a single ring, 432 per 1h. Is that a lot? Not when you consider diminishing returns. With this and the average ring volume, you could calculate how much attribute can be stored in cm^3 of a metal. For the deminishing returns you could create a function, based on this WoB, to know what how much less time you can use an attribute if you tap it more By doing a quick Excel chart from those 3 data points, and using it to determine more data points (each 50% increase cuts time by a bit more than a half), it gives you 400% for 20 seconds from 1h of 50%. That's getting low very fast, comparable to what Sazed did with rings, but probably there should be even more decay. Far too little, in my opinion, with Sazed fighting description in mind, and diminishing returns. I think it would be far easier to have it in 1-1 scale, afterall Brandon and books always talks about percentage of attribute. And that would be the only way when doubling your strength from A-pewter would make sense. I don't think it would double the strength added by metalminds. Vin was far smaller and physically weaker, but far stronger in pewter than Ham. The power comes from Allomancy, from Preservation. And this is what matters, how much can you get from Preservation. But it could multiply your pewtermind strength. Yikes Even half of the train car won't work with your math. Buuuut, just saying, Wax could become heavier than a building for a fraction of a second, so I can see you can become strong enough to lift a car just to put it back on track, for a fraction of a second.

Hmm, in-world animal rights activists, but considering the current time period, I doubt anyone would really care. Maybe in Era 3. This is also a great point. What methods can be used to determine if a piercing is a spike of just a piece of metal? Some weakly invested spikes can be pushed by Allomacy, so it won't always be a good method, not to mention there is a limited amount of A-iron/A-steel Mistings. Beyond that, or trying it for yourself, there isn't really any way to do it. Trying it on yourself is a problem, not only it forces you to put that metal in the same place it was in person who is suspicious, but also would require you to know what can be there - Like the Bands or Wax's coin couldn't be used as a medallions until they realized what they were, and what powers they were giving. Not every spike has to give Allomancy or Feruchemy, some can grant attributes, and with this still can be problems, as ReLuur's Blessings were pewter, which steals Physical Feruchemical powers, but he doesn't seems to have those, so different metals can be used to acquire powers/attributes outside of hemalurgic table.

It's for the better. I apologize for being overly engaged and I apologize if someone felt attacked by my comments.

It was told in BoM that powers stored in nicrosilmind are running out, and compounding is necessary to replenish them. But does this mean powers are getting weaker or that just time of use is shorter - we don't know. Medallions works a bit different:

Welcome to the Shard. We have no idea. He should use it. Somehow he doesn't want to. He is a Herald, and he was fighting for hundreds of years without a Shardplate and being a Radiant, so maybe his madness makes him ignore a plate in favor of visual presentation? No idea.

No, only inside investiture, but not just his metals, but effects imposed on him by outside investiture. Probably if he were to get lashed, you could burn aluminum to suck it out. But using aluminum is mostly useless because you are losing everything. Some effect yes, but what precisly it would do is hard to say. Bronze allomancy allows you to hear Rhythms on Roshar, so copper would likely cloud them, and sprens do need to hear rhythms as well, so I guess it could mess up their connection to Roshar, but probably not in a big way. From the outside perspective it looks like Mistborn inside a bubble is burning metals faster. Yet he still gets all power from this as he should. F-steel tapping a lot would still get all power as he should, and from the outside perspective it would look like he is "stronger" than normally. You have something called a "field of view", you can watch both your steps and your enemy. Especially with tin. He would see sprens. And nothing counters Electrum, so. I'm not having him draw at any rate. All of this is multiple separate scenarios. Not single, continuous one. If that was continuous, Windrunner would run low on Stormlight as well, and be killed 12 different times. Every single scenario you come up with (without an ambush) ends up with Windrunner death. So Fullborn doesn't really have to replenish his metals because he killed him several times already. It's very simple - if Fullborn can get to Windrunner - Windrunner is dead. If he can't he waits until Windrunner gets closer, or loses light due to evaporation - Windrunner is dead. Only ambush can work, and that’s only when Fullborn doesn’t know he is fighting someone.

Oh right, so the betrayal of spren has brought them there. But that's not good motivation so Singers could revolt if pushed too far, but it didn't happen, nor did humans use that brilliant tactic of forced relocations. I remember I already wrote why it wouldn't work, mainly because people are stubborn and wouldn't want to leave their home, but I don't know where it was.

You can't ignore air resistance when considering terminal velocity. That is what makes it "terminal". He stored most of his weight. It was hundreds of feet deep. If he stored 99.99% of his weight, he would reach terminal velocity very quickly. WoA ch 12: There are problems with this, but they figured out how it should work by Era 2, but didn't change it: I disagree. Our equations for Ek and Ep are incomplete. In Cosmere they have their own versions (I think Brandon literally has someone working on physics of this), and those include Investiture as a part of the world. We can't replicate it with our equations. But energy can't be destroyed. It can't just disappear. It's ok if Ek doesn't match velocity, as energy conservation takes priority. However I do now think that the Ek remains unchanged after Iron is tapped - this energy isn't going back into Ep, because it shouldn't. The new increase of Ep can be explained by investiture from metalminds changing into energy to compensate for higher mass - thus gaining more Ep which would later be added to already existing Ek. So looking at numbers he should have 391 615,2J of Ek after 499 m of fall, and after tapping Iron, 77 695.2J should be added to Ep from drawing from metalminds, which all would be transferred into Ek and added to it - 391 615,2J+77 695.2J+784,8J=470 095.2J which should be the final energy, which would not correspond to velocity in a classical equation, because it's incomplete in Cosmere. In the opposite scenario, when mid freefall you store weight, your Ep will decrease, and this energy is going into metalminds as Investiture. However in this case you're right, Ek is the problem, as speed doesn't match energy that was already accumulated during the fall.But here again I think, our Ek shouldn't change - energy doesn't match velocity. as there is a hidden part of the equation which includes Investiture and Spiritual Realm, and this is where change is happening. But until we get full math from Brandon, we really don't have anything to do math with. So keep in mind our laws are broken, but Cosmere laws are not, because there is Investiture that makes any loss and gain of energy.

Whaaaaaat? Ha - No. Kaladin Lashed himself multiple times and seriously cracked a plate during WoR arena fight. Fullborn has access to a crazy amount of strength, speed and weight, and can strike with such force that it would "explode" a plate "into thousands pieces". Yes it would cost a lot of attributes, but it would leave Windrunner fully defenceless. And what, her hand didn't move? Her fingers? Still her muscles would have to move far faster than Mach1. Which he can't do fast enough in reaction to Fullborn movement, because Fullborn is thinking in 8D, and Windrunner only in 3D. The same problem. Windrunner can't think fast enough when he is moving that fast. Yes, but faster burn will result in giving more power - it's like bendalloy bubble emotional allomancy. From outside perspective it would look like more powerful Allomancy. Which helps compound even more. https://wob.coppermind.net/events/479/#e15224 Is he blind? He has 2 types of tin and A-electrum to see himself tripping, and F-chromium to feel where to step. And he can use that time to compound more attributes and outlast Radiant. And go drink beer while Windrunner is floating away.