alder24

God metals. Atium, Lerasium, Harmonium etc.

That's a good counter argument with Raysium . But Nightblood isn't god metal and it operates on a corrupted investiture. Investiture however doesn't stay in Raysium. Sprens Shardblades are made out of Cultivation's god metal, they don't hold stormlight.

It's magic, it doesn't make sense. They fall slower not because of gravitational acceleration, which doesn't change for them, but because of terminal velocity, which do change when they change mass (WoA Sazed did it). vt=sqrt(2mg/ρACd). Lower the mass, lower terminal velocity. There is an issue when changing weight mid fall, energy is disappearing or appearing, I've done the math, but it can be explained in few ways, like by Investiture - storing weight gives away energy (Investiture) to metalminds, tapping pulls energy (Investiture) from metalminds. Investiture is another form of matter/energy. Or that energy is simply transferred from Ek to Ep, and there is no loss of energy. There was a discussion about conservation of momentum and energy during freefall, where I did the math on energy, you can read it, but it's from Cosmere forum, so full Cosmere spoilers possible (no idea what was there, mostly about Skimmer from page 3) WoBs on F-iron:

We don't know tbf. It only happened once and it was done by a primar cube. TLM spoliers:

There are 3 forms of investiture - first is solid form - god metal, then liquid form - Well of Ascension for example, and lastly gaseous form - Mists. While each has a bit different effects, you can use them all in the same way - like Atium is used as a fuel for allomancy (only Atium burning), the same way Mists are by Vin and Well too. You can even use god metals to Ascend, the same way Well was used, or more accurate, Mists: Your idea doesn't resolve the problem of investiture resisting investiture. Breath can be put into every object, it doesn't need to be a god metal, it mustn't be a god metal. Lerasium granting allomancy isn't also the main effect of burning this metal. Someone who knows what should be done, would use it in a different way:

Which is done by muscles. Because a) they can't think as fast as Fullborn, b] they can't react as fast as him c) Windrunner want them to make a tunnel in a direction of his lashing He's not running away from them, he is running toward Windrunner to smack him in the face. And if he burns metals faster, his power also is stronger. And because there isn't much light in lashing, he would barely burn any metal, as he can think so fast to know when to start burning and when he leech all light and stop then, taking into account faster burn rate. You constantly forgeting about his mental speed which is his main weapon. If he can't do it because Windrunner is in the air, he waits for him to get down, if Windrunner doesn't want to go down, Fullborn can wait for him, he has bronze and bendalloy, he will outlast Windrunner's light. Not to mention A-bronze that would detect any Shardblade summon and lashings done by Windrunner alerting him of danger. Yes, but how? Windrunner doesn't have a way to do so. Only befriend him with duralumin connection and be best friends 4ever

There is no rotation here, it's muscle movement. No, that's because lack of pressure is pulling the air out of your lungs, which you can't stop. Lack of oxygen makes you pass out. Lack of pressure makes your fluids boil, which is healable. The thing with divers is about nitrogen narcosis. Can they? Why? And that still doesn't change the fact that Windrunner needs to think to correct his lashing, which he doesn't have time for. Very weak and very small. Easy to avoid by zinc enhanced Fullborn with access to steel push. With speeds and strength Fullborn is capable of, he wouldn't even feel that, and chromium would leech it very fast, as there is barely any light there. The point is, you don't have to keep up with him, when you think faster than him, are stronger than him and you start the fight. All you need is a fraction of a second to run to him, punch him to smash his plate to pieces and rip off his head. That's it. He's dead. He can't even notice what is happening. If he is in the air, wait for him to come down to you, and repeat. Windrunner has to come down to fight Fullborn, not the other way around. Windrunner can't think as fast as he moves, Fullborn can.

Kandra aren't cognitive shadows. Harmony doesn't like the idea of using hemalurgy, and this is required to make new kandra. Plus Harmony already gave that choice to Wax, but this was when he could use Bands, Wayne's body was destroyed. And to add more, Harmony is binded by inaction, by doing this he would once again oppose Ruin intent in favor of Preservation, which likely wouldn't pass. Personally I would be disappointed if another character avoided death. That's getting too common.

It's a physical speed, she tap it to move her hand at mach 7, if she start walking, she would be walking at mach 7. It's the same speed You know why you pass out in a vacuum? No oxygen. You know cadmium? It stores oxygen. Gold heals nasty effects of lack of oxygen - no passing out. He moved, tunnel is already there and didn't move. Not to mention lashing correction. Think Windrunner, think! I see this as an absolute win Any example of Windsprens being used for full lashing? Sprens are immune to full lashing. Fullborn doesn't even have to use steel push, just steel speed from Feruchemy. Feruchemy is far superior in any aspect during this fight than regular allomancy.

There is a problem, investiture resists investiture. Investing a god metal with Stormlight would be extremely hard to do, and would possibly require a lot of Stormlight. It would be like trying to Awaken a Shardblade

Marasi created a vacuum behind her, and that requires at least mach 7. So it's still 2 steps, but now just to the other side of the Windrunner. Which still requires thinking of a Radiant to make such corrections if he wants to attack Fullborn. Maybe

Syl said that everything has a spren sooo. But I guess because we never saw any mention of a Rock/Stone spren, it won't be a plate spren, yet there is still a chance.

They can step in only after damage is done, not prevent it from happening in the first place. What's the use of the punishment if your son is still dead? What countermeasures? There is no way to mitigate it, like with gun registrations or psychological tests to gain gun license. You give knowledge to the public and you lose control over it. Even harsh penalties won't prevent criminals from killing. You are dealing only with after effects, your job as a government is to prevent crime from happening, to make people be safe. You can't filter to whom you give knowledge based on psychological tests or practical training, like with a gun license. Once the knowledge is out, you have no control over it. But it's not like educating people to avoid drugs because they are bad for your health. It's not your choice in case of Hemalurgy. If they want to spike you, you can't prevent them from doing this, nor can the government. There is no way to protect yourself from hemalurgy. Warbreaker: There are also "other complications" for a person receiving spikes: Healing a soul is like sewing a hole in your clothes with a patch, it isn't the same thing after it. There might be some consequences of it, we don't know yet. Not to mention healing a soul with gold requires a lot of attribute.

I agree with this. That was because Honorblades can't heal Shardblade damage, or at least Szeth believed so. Gold compounder can, Fullborn as well. And Wax was killed at the end of BoM, Harmony said his spirit and mind was separated from his body, and still was able to tap gold and heal - so I assume as long as his spirit didn't pass to the Beyond, he can tap gold subconsciously, if he has a goldmind connection, but this would have a similar effect as Szeth's soul (Which I wonder if an heavily invested person can see that in Wax). Both of this can't be done - Fullborn can run faster than Windrunner can go into the air beyond his reach, or position Shardblade in a proper way, and reverse lashing would actually help him gain more speed. And severing a spine won't kill him, as he can heal soul damage (I'm not sure, does severing the spine of an Radiant kills him the same way as it kills a non-invested person? Not every spine cut is deadly - WoR Szeth in palace, one brigdeman lost only his legs). Miles had a few inserted into his body. Every piercing that Miles had would be removed if it works as you said. The same with TLR metalmind. It would be easy to consider metalminds as a part of your body, as they are keyed to your identity, and you have already used them for so long. TLM: There are 2000 year old skulls on Earth with metal plates in them, to seal a hole, so putting goldminds in parts of your skull is a necessity in my opinion. Not to mention golden teeth. But you can still compound with duralumin, which would give you much more attributes without diminishing returns, and with every bit of healing, you gain access to more goldminds. He wasn't able to stand up for a moment. Shallan lost consciousness, Miles didn't even feel pain. He didnt need to, he wanted to. Yes, this can only work if Fullborn is taken by total surprise, but even if he had a moment to tap zinc, he would be able to think faster than Windrunner moves and come up with a solution to secure his survival. He can, for yet another example, store his weight and duralumin push himself from his coin out of Windrunners reach in the very last moment. Or do a Neo trick from Matrix. Or jump with duralumin pewter/steel push. Or just push a coin into a Shardblade to nudge it just enough to miss Fullborn. I don't think a single Shardblade cut would even be enough to kill a Fullborn, when he has goldminds everywhere in his body. It's not even 100% efficient, just 1 in a dozens of situations.

Of course not everyone is a sociopath. But there are individuals who would use it. Give them a weapon and they will start killing. But the difference is, this weapon is the knowledge, which after you release it to the public, you can't control it, and you can't use it to defend yourself. You gain nothing from stabbing somebody with a knife, but from spiking him with a hemalurgy, you gain more power. Imagine every single criminal can become Metalborn because they don't have scruples. How does this knowledge which was gained by the Set was used? to kill people, steal their powers, kidnap more and more people and create hemalurgic monsters. There was no government to control or stop them. Now with hemalurgy as a public knowledge, every criminal organization can do the same. And will have to do it, to stop other organizations from competing with them. Ironically it wasn't the government that stopped the Set, it was more thanks to Ghostbloods help, who are a criminal organization. I'm not talking about the end. I'm talking about absolute abuse, and the danger it poses. Criminal use of Hemalurgy would become far more common thing. Putting everyone in danger like that is just irresponsible.

That's not possible. Not only Shard needs to be Vesselless (only Ruin and Preservation as only to them you are connected), but this is not the Well of Ascension thing. Then diminishing returns at some point would make it impossible to gain new attributes, so you would gain nothing and lose more and more investiture. To add more, Feruchemy, and all Scadrial's metal arts, are low invested arts. There is little investiture there compared to Surgebinding. With Surgebinding they can open perpendicularly, but they can't Ascend, as this requires a lot more that they can pull from SR. You can open a perpendicularity this way, which can be done with any metalmind likely. You can become extra smart with zinc, but this won't be Well level smartness, as you don't have liquid, focused essense of a Shard.

Oh yeah, I notice that too, which is on its own interesting. Tbf, if most people like you and Frustration were fully on the Fullborn side, I would be the one who thinks about ways for Windrunner to win. And I would be bad at this job as I still can’t see a way to do it without an ambush. He wasn't touching the ground, he was stuck to the wall upside down. And the reverse lashing was applied very close to his head, not 100 meters away. Not really, Stormlight needs to flow there first, while speed is given to Feruchemist almost immediately. And that's only reverse lashing, Fullborn has enough time to "be attracted" to it, leech it out, and destroy Windrunner, before he even summons and positions his blade. Reverse lashing won't kill a Fullborn, as even The Defeated One had a few seconds before his head was ripped off. That's enough time to kill a Windrunner. Oh you seem to forget that Fullborn already conquered 4 parallel universes and has unlimited metal supply. Huh, this starts to be weirdly similar. It's like I already was in a discussion where I made weird arguments just to win... Metalminds don't have to be bracers. They can be inside your body, in every corner of your body. Replacing parts of your skull. Which is what i would do to secure them. What 15 feets? Shardblades are 6ft long, 2 steps are enough. Spren still takes time to change shape, and he does it because Radiant thought about it first, not the other way around. If Radiant can't think about it, then Spren can't change shape. Syl during the fight with Szeth felt what weapon Kal needed and changed shape accordingly. Which still took some time. Spren, the same as Radiant, can't think as fast as Fullborn. Miles heals all damage done by any bullet before it even leaves his brain. It heals instantly as the bullet moves through his body. He heals any broken bones from falling the moment they start breaking. Stormlight healing always takes a bit of time. How? Radiant can't think fast enough to make that correction. In what distance? With 10 lashings and 5 sec, he needs to be 857.5 m away to reach a speed of 343 m/s, which is Mach 1. Fullborn still can move faster. But he doesn't even need to. Give Windrunner 20, or 30 lashings, all Fullborn has to do is to move slower than that, only enough to dodge a Shardblade (or even take the cut and heal it), catch Windrunner's hand or leg and jump onto his back using moment of super speed and strength, and with one punch he will shatter Windrunner's plate, and rip his spine with his head out. Then crush his head in his hands. Dead. Windrunner won't be able to even react to this. Or as I said before, move a bit aside and punch his head. Why would a Fullborn keep all his metalminds in a single place? Look at Miles, he had dozens of metalminds, some hidden inside of his body. If I were a Fullborn I would hide my metalminds in every corner of my body, inside and outside, stick them to the bones, to the skull, especially gold, to make sure I can always heal any damage, touch them with my brain. Depending on how nicrosil compounding works, it might be possible to gain that power. But I won't discuss this possibility. But he can't manipulate his mental speed, so using near-sonic speeds to engage in combat would put Windrunner in a huge disadvantage. Much greater than what he gets from moving that fast. Edit: Sorry, I had to

You can bond and unbond them at will, like Szeth did at the end of WoR. It's not a permanent bond like with spren. They can just unbond the blade and give it to someone to train with it, like bridgemen did in OB.

I don't agree, Hemalurgy isn't a gun. It isn't even a bomb. It's something worse. You can't protect yourself with hemalurgy without harming others. And those who want to use it for their own goal will do it, and you can't do anything about it. Once the knowledge is out, EVERYONE can do it, and the government can't do anything to prevent it. The only thing that is needed is a piece of metal, and this is everywhere. There is no way to control it. You think a drug addict won't spike someone just so he can buy more drugs? Or a sociopath won't do it because it excites him? Or a power hungry man won't do it to gain more power? Or a crime boss to secure his business? Or a school bully? Having severe punishments for killing with Hemalurgy is fine, but it won't prevent this from happening, and it won't control it. Power corrupts, but you don't want a select few working under strict regulations and supervision, instead you want to give that power to everyone, so everyone can be corrupted. Hemalurgy isn't a car. It's like a hard drug. You are giving your kid permanent soul damage, and irreversible changes to his body, leaving him forever scared and susceptible to mental illness. It's like giving your kid a line of coke everyday, because it's "fun". With this I agree. Documents, multiple witnesses, including family, aluminum hats. That's the easiest part. Emotional Allomancy isn't mind controll. So a selected few working under strict regulations and supervision are a problem, but you are not concerned about power corrupting everyone? The only thing they need is a piece of metal. There is no control once the knowledge is out. You are not the only one. I find this discussion weirdly similar to the discussion about gun possession in the USA vs Europe. The laws preventing gun violence don't stop a few people in the USA from shootings, while in Europe the inability to have a gun prevents those crimes from ever happening in the vast majority of the cases. The difference however is, you can't make your own gun out of a rusty nail.

Maybe, but just a few seconds of hesitation could give him an opening. He can also use time bubbles to strengthen the effect of it.

Depends on how much and what. Allomantic pewter strength stored in pewtermind won't kill him. I explain it in second post. What is happening to the air that was there? It have to be moved out, so sonic boom. But connects you to different parts of a spirit web and its aspects. Mass comes from Higgs field. Bendalloy bubble. Hey! I'm not doing that! Usually I did avoid the last Windrunner vs Mistborn because I believed Windrunner would win (shamefully I admit, I didn't read most of it). But this is a good discussion. Well, coppermind: "It is much harder for Reverse Lashing to affect objects touching the ground, where their link to the planet is the strongest; objects falling or in flight are the easiest to influence." Yes, it can be done, but Fullborn would be smashing their Shardplate, before they start doing reverse lashing on the ground. And it is a gravity surge, so its strength could drop drastically the further away it is. Well, you know me, I'm always picking the Scadrial's side, so he owns 16 planets, each smelting different metal, all of it delivered to him by FTL traveling to CR right where he is standing, ready to be used. Oh, and he has a shrinking tech so he can have all metals in his pockets, and had 1000 years to fill them with all attributes he needs Technically yes, not in a way to make him lose any fight. 2 steps are enough. Shallan healing bolt in a head vs Miles healing, well everything? Miles can use more health at once than Radiant heal. If there is a long tunnel, Fullborn sees it, and steps aside without even using steel... And when a tunnel is created what is happening to the air? And how far away do they start this fight? If the whole continent apart, then sure, Windrunner can reach great speeds, if a field apart, then no, he can't. And if they just met, and the first thing Windrunner does is fly away, the Fullborn would just go to the nearest town and drink a beer, when Windrunner returns, there is no Fullborn on the field, and he won't find him. That's not really a fight, isn't it? It depends on the size of the metalmind, it doesn't have to be in his stomach. He can still do it. But I'm mostly using tapping. Rust you Americans!! Have a storming whatever time you have. See you tomorrow/today.

I don't know. Squires don't have plates. Just push/pull on their emotions even without duralumin and it will paralyze them, and then kill them one by one. Distraction for sure, but not enough to significantly change the results. If Radiant decides to protect with his plate his squires, he will expose himself to emotional allomancy and paralysis, losing the fight. Windrunner's squires would be even more susceptible to this as you can push on their guilt and sense of failure to protect (not everyone is like Kaladin but most would struggle with the same issues as him).

Miles had so many health that he could heal from every wound and never run out. It was time and time told to us that he just can't run out of it. Fullborn would be the same with all 16 metals. No, sprens also have a cap on thinking speed. Void-Tower proves it, and many other occasions as well. They can't think faster than Fullborn and react at such speeds. At this point you will smash Radiant's plate, or use compounding with duralumin to bypass diminishing returns. It's not an arm that's stoping them, it's a punch with the force of an falling airplate or whatever you can imagine. He does, he can heal faster than Radiant. Fullborn has more strength, speed, healing, weight, and can easily overcome plate's durability. So what is happening to the air that was in that place? Disappear? No. It would be moved out of his way, and moved faster than a speed of sound, creating a sonic boom. Air don't disappear. It still has to be moved out to create a vacuum. The faster Windrunner moves, the faster air is moving, which would make a sonic boom. Because it's allomancy. You aren't tapping metal, you're burning it. No diminishing returns when metalmind is being burnt. I don't know, something? Time to compound, hide from ambush. Please quote if you find it, I don't remember this. Noooo. I'm afraid to go to sleep and wake up to 5 new pages

Please, let's not jump into another rabbit hole of "Roshar vs Scadrial"! We just had that disscussion. It's too soon! But if we had an army of Dor fueled Mistborns and an Army of Radiants from all 10 orders, I would give it to Radiants, but it would be a hard fight. Bondsmiths change everything (and 100 Elsecallers)

Seekers detect active use of investiture, kinetic investiture, not powers you have. So it will give you nothing but cracks in your souls. Just don't burn metals and you have the same effect.