Spoolofwhool

Ettmetal was inside though. My point was poor though since we already know that ettmetal can mimic allomancy without direct contact so it doesn't seem impossible that it can project it at a distance, which is clearly is doing with the steel as well. Fair point. This is completely not how Brandon operates with regards to this though. He would have a concrete reason why it would work, not some random "that's cause it is" reason. Therefore, even if there is a narrative reason, and the exception which you're providing is still poor as it has other reasons for working the way it does, I don't see sacrificing logical mechanics for the sake of narrative plot. Also, all of what VenDell has said isn't baseless theory, he has been experimenting on the subject. So they're being 100% correct off of tested knowledge. I disagree with the last part as well, and overall your assessment that there is no narrative reason for there to be an additional step. Furthermore, we do know that there is something we aren't aware of, as something is causing the medallions to interfere when multiple are worn, and there is a difficulty in adding too many powers to a medallion when moving it between people. So there are obvious details being hidden from us, no reason why others aren't either. Furthermore, narratively, hiding details about the spiritual powers is something Brandon has explained his reasoning for many times; he doesn't want to give away the details of the later books as well, and wants to leave us to speculate further.

It leeched Wax when it touched him. The proposed feruchemical equivalent is creating investiture which then forms into an attribute in mimicry to a feruchemist tapping a metalmind and forcing that attribute into the holder. The Excisors probably aren't just vanilla hemalurgic spikes. Wax refers to them as a device and Allik makes no move to correct him. Furthermore, contextually they do seem more like devices then just a some spikes that have been traded between hosts a bunch. This is fair. Although, it could be argued that Allik clearly isn't involved in the medallion creation process and doesn't have detailed knowledge of the process. He also doesn't know exactly how the medallions work, the sum of his knowledge seems to be that you need to be aware and that the power to tap/store is pushed into you. You're trying to say that they're hinting at the fact that nicrosil is a metal that anyone can tap? That seems slightly random to be honest. The manifestations of investiture don't create exception like that, with the exception of Lerasium and Atium, except those are also god metals directly formed of the investiture which create their respective magics. Nicrosil, on the other hand, is not. Also, I don't see how tapping a nicrosilmind requires the f-nicrosil power flies in the face of everything when we've been told a number of times that you need feruchemical powers to tap metalminds. If you could detail this point a bit further.

I see. However, unless you can provide some reason to believe to connect the usage of one term to the other, it seems to be more coincidental than anything, and therefore still out of context. Additionally, that the Vessel of the God King was designated to hold something diving is a poor argument, since the priests never actually expected the vessel to actually produce a new God King. So comparing both contexts, one has a person actually holding something powerfully spiritual, the other is a figurehead which is expected religiously to hold something somewhat spiritual, but which isn't expected to. Since, as I said at the start, there isn't, as far as I'm aware, a reason to believe there's a connection between terms with regards to the origin, there isn't much of an argument for the shard vessel term to be expanded using the Hallandren vessl term.

Chapter 49 Annotations:

Are you referring to him going all crazy? I think it was said that he was like that because his daughter killed his wife and he had to live with everyone else believing he had.

Thank you. Still, I think the issue is that he is to some degree claiming the visions are from the Almighty, which is forbidden, even if they are of the past. He's saying that the Almighty is talking to him, which is a major red flag for Vorinism with regards to the Hierocracy.

In the context of referring to shards and splinters it was the only context. Don't introduce a term from a whole different context just to falsely prove someone wrong; it's poor manners. The downvote wasn't because you have a different point of view.

Well yeah, he buys the bendalloy in nuggets then shaves them down for his vials. I doubt he would swallow an entire nugget as chances are that he wouldn't burn that much before his body started metabolizing it and becomes harming him.

So from this, you think the only special process the southerners have that regular soulbearer ferrings don't have is the ability to create the unkeyed metalminds by combining it with aluminum allomancy?

Honor is a variable concept. The different orders of the Knight Radiants have follow different codes of honor. Edgedancer spoilers The Nahel Bond spren for the most part are all of Honor and Cultivation. Some might be only of one though. Looking at the actual origin of the surges, don't forget that surges aren't the power. The power is surgebinding, the ability to manipulate these underlying mechanics. Furthermore, the surges technically aren't anything special. They're mainly considered special on Roshar because of surgebinding manipulating these ten specific cosmere mechanics, but the same mechanics exist everywhere in the Cosmere. So the origin of the surges is because of the power to surgebind, and that is from a shard investing into Roshar. Which one I won't delve into because it's not that relevant.

It which case it wouldn't be a form of feruchemy, but more accurately a power which can achieve similar effects. Unless you're saying it operates on similar principles with storing attributes in materials as well, which is possible, but feels unlikely. This doesn't really mean much though because all the powers in the Cosmere use the same underlying mechanics. so duplicate or similar effects are very likely and possible. Really it comes down to how we're defining feruchemy. Personally I explain it as, "The manifestation of investiture resulting from investment from the shards Ruin and Preservation into the world of Scadrial." This manifests as the ability to store physical, cognitive or spiritual attributes within metals. Looking at it further though, the two main parts of the power, storing attributes and storing within metals, result from the intents of Ruin and Preservation, and the nature of Scadrial. Therefore, it wouldn't be very likely for something that similar to feruchemy to exist, and more likely that he's just manipulating one of the underlying mechanics it uses, which are many.

Agreed. I'm extremely doubtful of that information as at least some of it seems to be somehow interpreted from something other than what they said.

No, it's visions from the Almighty in general as well. Here's an excerpt from WoK regarding a discussion between Adolin and an ardent regarding Vorinism's view on Dalinar's visions. There doesn't appear to be any segment where Adolin says the visions aren't an issue because they're of the past. The main argument they have regarding the visions was from Adolin saying that the visions aren't true and are a creation of Dalinar's aging mind and that he should ignore them.

Note that I'm not sure how accurate the coppermind is. I would have to reread through SA to know for certain.

They probably say he's going insane because the alternative is one they would rather not dwell on, since all Voidbringers are suppose to be gone. I think there is a scene though where theyou are worried because visions are tabbooed in Vorinism. The coppermind page on the Hierocracy states that visions were the primary problem during the Hierocracy, but all forms were outlawed.

The primer cubes demonstrate that there is so level mechanical control which can be achieved over how ettmetal reacts with powers as you needed to flick the switch before it mimicked powers.

Possible, but unlikely since I don't think there was a need for the visions at that time since the True Desolation wasn't close to coming. They didn't know about Odium as far as I can tell. Nowhere, as far as I can tell, had there been mention of any entities on the same level as the Almighty, which would be Odium and Cultivation. The supernatural beings mentioned, as far as I can recall are as follows: the Almighty (Honor); the Heralds; the Voidbringers. Furthermore, when Odium's name was mentioned, I don't remember any sort of recognition. I don't think they claimed visions of the future, but it's just that visions in general are a tabboo.

@cometaryorbit I see. Personally though, I think the entire spiritweb is what is considered innate investiture, but I'll admit that we don't really have any information to say either way. Which WoB are you referencing?

Ah, okay. Though whether Kelsier is a reliable source or not is up for debate. Yeah, as I said, WoB is that the Pits are no more.

Interesting thought. We really don't have much information so it's hard to really say anything about it. I do however have an objection to part of your perceived objection. (Or is it an objection to your objection of a perceived possible objection?) The thing is, I don't think Vorinism knows about Cultivation. As far as we've seen, Vorinism only knows of the Almighty, as the god creator of humanity, and the voidbringers. Nothing has been said about the existence of the other shards in the system. So there's no reason why there could be a possible objection to the banning of prophecy because of Cultivation being good at it, because they don't know she's a thing, any more that they know that Odium is a thing. In any case, Honor could see the future as well, he just wasn't as good at it. Furthermore, the reason why the prohibition on predicting the future exists seems fairly logical. The ardentia gained power during the Hierocracy by claiming that they were receiving messages directly from the Almighty. Once their power was broken, creating the idea that predicting the future is evil is a prevention to make it more difficult for someone to gain power in the same manner, as the people would be opposed to anyone who claimed they were getting visions from the Almighty.

That's not what Brandon said. He said that Bavadin has been usurping pre-existing pantheons. The gist is that Bavadin is pretending to be gods of other religions for some unknown purpose. This does lend credence to the idea that Trell is Autonomy because Trell used to be a god in an old religion pre-Catacendre, but his goals now are a bit different than how it was described then.

That, and so that he didn't have to be always burning atium. Secret Historyou and Elantris spoilers. Also, watch the spoilers. Secret History is still in its own sub-forum. Actually, if I recall correctly the amount of time was only given to be centuries. We've just assumed it to be 300 since then it lines up with Era 2. In any case, probably isn't relevant since according to WoB, the Pits are no more.

Wouldn't work normally since most metals are ingested as flakes. As far as I can remember, only atium was ever swallowed as a bead.

Honestly, there isn't really any evidence to refute your theory, but that's mainly because we don't have much substantial information to do more than speculate on the identity of Trell.

You could do that, but I don't think you could actually burn it until it's touching you physically. So you would have to burn the outer layer off, at which point the ettmetal would be exposed to the stomach fluids and probably explode.