Spoolofwhool
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Fair enough. There really isn't a lot of evidence. However, I'm remaining firm in my stance until new evidence presents itself. Carry on with this topic.
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theory identity of Trell and Senna wonderings(secret history spoilers)
Spoolofwhool replied to Kolfire's topic in Mistborn
Harmonium is composed a bit more of Ruin than of Preservation. This has been confirmed by Brandon. I'm thinking that it's an intentional thing to siphon off excess power. This topic contains most of the important details as well as a very science-heavy discussion. -
Also, keep in mind that both Devotion and Dominion were splintered and pressed into the Dor by Odium, meaning that it occurred before Ambition was splintered. Additionally, by the sounds of it, pressing such an amount of investiture into the cognitive realm is really unstable, so I don't think that pieces of Ambition's power, if there are any, would leak in or if so, do much damage. A lot of what is happening does seem to be explained by Devotion and Dominion's powers.
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Eh, fair enough. I've also assumed otherwise, since it has a more specific task, it seems that it would've somehow gathered a different hemalurgic charge such as connection instead of a power. I ran a quick list of the powers the basic inquisitors who have eleven spikes have and I got ten: pewter, tin, bronze, copper, iron, steel, brass, zinc and atium allomancy, and gold feruchemy. That's means that it's possible for them to have had a spike which didn't grant a power. Also, brass and zinc seem less important compared to the others so they probably could've been replaced with other powers as well amplifying the other powers gained such as bronze in order to pierce copperclouds. Also, yes, I typoed. Fixed now. Also, this is a personal request, but I would rather if you didn't attach any honorific adverbs such as respectfully to disagree when you use it towards my opinion. It's nothing much, but I would be grateful if you did.
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Maybe. Except Breath isn't the ability to use a manifestation of investiture which is my belief as to the limit of what nicrosil can store as the ability to store any part of the innate investiture would basically make it encompass most, if not all, of the other feruchemical powers, which would be extremely illogical. Additionally, it doesn't say it can store it Returned Breath, it seems to be more referring to specific abilities associated with it. Really, the fact that Returned Breath was added as an example to the question really doesn't make much sense so I'm not putting much stock in it. In any case, Returned Breath has huge differences compared to regular breath, so I don't think one is that much of a case for another.
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There's also the fact that Returned can change their physical body to better suit their cognitive. So people who are adults will remain looking like adults for forever, unaging, but children can and probably do cause their body to change subconsciously to suit their mental state.
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Fair enough. I think there's a reasonable chance you can, though I doubt the southerners use single power people to do so. It depends a lot on what the additional process is. However, it seems fairly clear that whatever it is is beyond simply storing identity.
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Yeah. Also, if it can store both innate investiture plus breath, then there wouldn't be much to justify it being able to store a host of other types of investiture, which would make it stupidly powerful, probably encroaching on the domains of other feruchemical powers. Overall, wouldn't make that much sense.
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Sounds more like a domesticated-preference bond versus something realmatic.
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Yeah. That's what my theory is: nicrosil stores the ability to use manifestations of investiture such as the metallic arts. This is encoded with a person as innate investiture, so it is storing investiture. Your argument still isn't making much sense to me. Are you saying that without the identity lock, the investiture within it would just jump out and into anyone who tries of tap it? That still makes no sense because as I said before, there's really nothing different about a nicrosilmind compared to a goldmind. All metalminds store the attribute as investiture. What you generally need to tap it though is the innate investiture to remove that investiture and change it back into the attribute it was stored for. The missing innate investiture probably can't normally be provided by a nicrosilmind because like other metalminds, the attribute, I suspect, is encoded in a different form of investiture, which constitutes the feruchemical charge. If I were to theorize, I'd say that the unsealing process the Southerners use might decode the stored nicrosil charge so essentially, it would be on a state where it can jump straight to the holder like you suggested, probably by the medallion creating a specific connection to the holder, which might be why multiple medallions cant be used at once since the connections would interfere.
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No it doesn't. It just confirms that you can store what we've already seen stored in nicrosilminds: the ability to use manifestations of investiture, pieces of one's spiritweb, and innate investiture. I haven't seen anything which gives any reason to believe that you can store kinetic investiture or any innate investiture outside of the ability to use magic.
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I don't see how a random Nalthian would be able to somehow remove the investiture from a nicrosilmind and turn it into breath. They're different types of investiture with different properties. Also, I don't think you can store breath in a nicrosilmind to compound that either.
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That's the right WoB. How did you think that it wasn't an applicable example? Only Wayne had the investiture to access health, and no one other than soulbearer ferrings have the right investiture to tap nicrosilminds.
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I think the Ars Arcanum says that subsumer ferrings can choose to store calories or fluids. Generally when people compound, they immediately store the new charge into a new metalmind.
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There's still a strong possibility for them to be using hemalurgy because it would make the process a lot easier. Also, I added an example to my last post.
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No I'm not unfortunately. There is another process required. Removing identity is what makes it so that another feruchemist of the appropriate power can tap it. However, nicrosilminds are not innately special that someone without the appropriate feruchemical ability can them, any more than any other metalmind is. Don't forget that Wax's and VenDell'a conversation, which you quoted, is speculation. They haven't actually managed to create medallions and do not know the steps required. There's a WoB that states that there is some other process needed. I'll pull it when I get home. To offer an example: They found an unkeyed metalmind in BoM. Only Wayne could tap it though, because only he possessed the ability to tap gold metalminds out of the group. Removing identity still doesn't grant an ability to attempt to access the power. It just makes it so that there is no prevention when you do.
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I'll point that to complete step 5, you would've already created a medallion which grants two powers according to the process you've outlined.
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Take a read down here for some other speculations on the matter. I haven't had time to read the entire post but I'll point out now that medallions have altered nicrosilminds which allow them to be tapped by non-soulbearer ferrings. So step 2 fails already because the trueself ferrings can't tap the nicrosilmind unless it becomes unsealed by whatever process the Southerners have, so not a significant change to the process once you add that step in to all necessary points.
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@Idealistic Mistborn Can you post a link to the source of that WoB?
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Yeah. Pretty fun. I only learned of it recently, because it has never replaced anything I've said. I always thought the people saying chull and damnation were staying in character too...
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Which WoB? To the overall topic, I agree that creating a unit of measure which references a person is a poor idea, especially when point is reached where unkeyed and unsealed medallions are commonly used.
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Not to mention there's at least one spike which serves hold his frayed spiritweb together which probably does not give the power. The linchpin spike as it's called, with possibly others at that point.
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Expanding: they're all one magic system with variations on its use.
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Fair enough, but that argument still doesn't hold to argue that burning atium allows for interactions with the spiritual realm while burning gold does not. First of all, regardless of Ruin's awareness, atium is just a piece of power cast into physical form. It does not gain any awareness that the greater mind possesses. Secondly, the investiture that powers gold allomancy is directly from a shard as well, Preservation, so no reason why it can't achieve the effect of entering the spiritual realm as temporal allomancy requires.
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Practically everything exists on all three realms.
