Kingsdaughter613

Kell pushes and pulls on the same piece of metal at once during the TFE.

Are we talking about TFE Kell or BoM Kell? Because the latter has 300+ years of experience...

Scadrian waffles with chocolate chips! Now for the most important question: does Scadrial have maple syrup? (Unless you are my mother, in which case: “Kingsdaughter, I have two bottles of 100% pure maple syrup and I don’t know what to do with them. Do you want them?” Me: “are you rusting serious?! Yes! Give them here!!!!!!”)

See, Dissasociative amnesia is its own illness, separate from PTSD. They can be co-morbid; I’d need to see if there have been any studies. So if the forgetting is due to DA and not PTSD then it does not fulfill the criteria. The symptoms cannot be caused by another illness. Diagnosis requires ALL symptoms to be present at the time treatment is sought. So Shallan would have to present all the different symptoms during the same period of time due to PTSD, and not because of another illness or outside substance. This is why diagnosis and treatment is tricky in cases of co-morbidity. Kalladin’s excessive spear practice could be symptomatic of obsession with the particular event. It could also be a means of release and sublimation of his feelings. It could be a coping method. I would not call it reckless; the opposite actually. Provided it wasn’t obsessive I would probably encourage it. I don’t feel Kalladin has PTSD. I do think he is traumatized. I’m more iffy on Shallan; her DA makes diagnosis based solely on observation difficult. And I’m an art therapist, but I doubt the WOK/WOR/OB artist is considering how someone with DA would really draw. As an aside, feeling lonely and isolated because you actually ARE lonely and isolated is NORMAL. Feeling lonely and isolated for extended periods when surrounded by friends and loved ones is abnormal. Brief periods of loneliness is normal, but frequent bouts is not under most circumstances. It IS normal if you are female and are in pre or post partum. It may also occur during menopause. However this shouldn’t go on for too long. See a therapist if it does. It is also normal when grieving or under great stress. Again, if these feelings continue for extended periods see a therapist. Seriously, SA needs psychologists. Too bad Scadrial is just reaching the beginning of that field...

@Maxal I would be hesitant to say Kalladin has PTSD. He has depression, and there is over lap, so distinguishing between the two would probably take someone who is A: more experienced than I am and B: an actual meeting. I think he’s more likely than Shallan though. Shallan does fulfill criterion C, but that is more likely to be connected to her dissasociative amnesia, then as a sign of PTSD. Which is part of what makes diagnosing her complicated, as we have to differentiate between the two in the overlapping areas.

PTSD has specific criteria. Shallan has some, but may not have all. Trauma = PTSD is actually a problematic correlation, since it can diminish those who are traumatized but do not experience the lasting neurological and emotional issues associated with PTSD. There is also a genetic factor involved. Not everyone who is traumatized has PTSD. I know many people who have gone through lasting trauma (the Holocaust) and do not have PTSD. That is not to say that they were not traumatized. (My grandfather and his two sisters survived Auschwitz, and they were deported in 1937 from the Sudetenland, to give a general idea.) Did that trauma effect them throughout their lives? Of course it did! It still does, for the one great aunt (the other has advanced Alzheimer’s, and my grandfather passed away before I was born.) But it didn’t impair them the way PTSD does. One great-aunt married right after the war and raised a beautiful family. The other came to the US, married and has many descendants today. My grandfather married off his sisters, then himself; he built a business in the US and raised a wonderful daughter. PTSD impaires functioning. It makes doing all the normal things of daily life hard, or even impossible. Trauma, in and of itself, does not. PTSD is also not as widespread as people believe. Trauma=PTSD can also lead to false positives, or even make incidences more likely to occur in a reverse placebo effect. Impaired functioning/difficulties in day to day life are a standard requirement for the diagnosis of a mental illness. More information on PTSD can be found here:https://www.ptsd.va.gov/professional/PTSD-overview/dsm5_criteria_ptsd.asp

That’s part of what I love about art therapy. It’s not so much ‘traditional practice’ but it has so many applications and can be used by nearly everyone. Art is a universal language and that’s why I love it so much.

I actually assumed you had to have some training and/or personal experience to be commenting on this, which is why I responded so strongly. I’m not a professional; I have to do research and additional internships before I graduate. Then I have to work several years before I can get my license. I’d be further along, but life likes to intervene. I’m not saying Stormlight is the cause of the switches, but I do believe it is facilitating them, ie. making it easier. That’s why she would need to be observed without Stormlight access. In fact, if I was her therapist I would probably strongly recomend limiting Stormlight usage and would not allow its use in therapy. It simply obscures too much.

The drawings are because my training is in art therapy. If Veil draws like Shallan, or Shallan is incapable of drawing in the Veil persona, that tells me that they aren’t totally distinct identities. Considering that DID is believed to begin by dissasociating memories AND that it begins in childhood, saying the amnesia prevented her from having DID is counterintuitive. The amnesia would CAUSE it. Being aware of alters is not the same thing as intentionally creating them. They can be created on a whim, but on due to unconscious need. Consciously crafting a persona is something everyone does. Some people even name them. Shallan takes it a step further than most; that does not make it pathological. This would have to continue for a longer period than observed, preferably without access to Stormlight, which is definately facilitating the switch. I said the host typically presents a depressed affect and co-dependent behaviors, NOT that the host is depressed. Shallan does not present that way. I think if Shallan has DID her alters are: ‘Shallan’, the host and dominant identity and the wretch we saw in WoR, who is the original. But I actually think she’s more in danger of having a psychotic break, then a dissasociative one. I think the difference between us is that I’m of the opinion that Shallan is adopting different personas and that ‘Shallan’ is also a persona, while you feel she is adopting different identities and ‘Shallan’ is the host AND the original (which are not the same.) THIS is why Veil’s art is important; it would clarify which it is.

She still fails the diagnostic criteria, which means she does not have DID. We have diagnostic manuals for a reasons. My teachers were of the opinion that DID required long term physical and/or sexual abuse. Perhaps yours believed otherwise. Though many of my teachers, who had been in the field for years, were of the opinion that DID’s existence was questionable. I believe it does exist, but is extremely rare. We already know Shallan suffers from dissasociative amnesia. Dissasociative fugue and fugue states are connected (or another version of) DA. There is no reason to assume Shallan has a dissorder she lacks all criteria for, as opposed to a variant of the one we KNOW she has. Please clarify why you don’t think she has some sort of fugue. Also how she fits the diagnosis (not the popular opinion) of DID. And the fact that her ‘switching’ is due to her magical abilities makes it unlikely that she could be diagnosed with DID. The magical factor would have to be removed. We will have to observe her behaviors when she is unable to use Stormlight. You seem to be under the impression that the creation of alters is a conscious process that becomes unconscious. My belief is that it is entirely unconscious. The consensus is that dissasociation occurs in childhood; the disorder may not become overt until adulthood. Shallan is too old to be developing DID. Above and beyond all that, Shallan has not had her ‘characters’ long enough for her to be diagnosed with DID. I would also need to see drawings done by Veil, before proceeding further. If Shallan really is the host then she lacks the depressive and codependent nature typical of one. And the host is an alter. Shallan may have PTSD; she may not. Not everyone with trauma has PTSD. I would need to meet and conduct a preliminary interview at the minimum before giving her any sort of diagnosis.

Provided DID exists of course, which is argued. I do not believe she has DID. DID is caused by persistent, continuous, long term physical and/ or sexual abuse in childhood. Shallan is A) too old to start the developement of the illness (she would have had to start the dissasociation much younger) and B: does not have a history of childhood physical and/or sexual abuse. Considering how much Brandon cares about getting mental illness correct I doubt he’d make such obvious mistakes. Especially since he went out of his way to note that Shallan was NOT physically abused. Shallan also lacks the loss of agency or control; she does not forget basic facets of everyday life; her different ‘characters’ are created via outside influence: her abilities and Stormlight. She knowingly chooses a role. Most importantly, she does not experience distress as a result. Basically, she lacks ALL DSM criteria for the disease, so she does not have it. That does not mean she is not dissasociating, but DID is hardly the ONLY dissasociative disorder. Shallan has dissasociative amnesia already. The goal of therapy with DID is the crafting of a whole, stable, identity. The goal with DA is to recall the lost memories. My belief is that the ‘Shallan’ we see most of the time is not the real Shallan. This ‘Shallan’ is the role she has played for most of her life, caused by her disassociation from her memories. Those memories shaped the real Shallan. So what we are seeing is long time fugue state as a result of dissasociative amnesia. What Shallan is unconsciously coming to realize is that the person she thought she was was never really her. This is why she paints her own face on like a mask; she is coming to realize that this ‘Shallan’ is not, and never was, the person she is. The mask is the Shallan who did not kill her mother, something that Shallan can no longer disassociate from. Recognizing this is an important step toward toward integrating the person she thought she was and the person she actually is. Brandon’s many references to perception just makes this more evident to me.

SA takes place about midway through the 10000 year time line. So 1500 years maximum, assuming 6000 is still ‘midway.’ I’d guess it’s more like 1000, and SA takes place around the 5500 year mark. So we have between 500 to 1500 years to work with. My personal thought is that the first few desolations were further apart; the last few close together.

Moustaches is just another term for a full moustache. When used as such moustache is typically a shorter growth.

Or the WW1 era novela?

When, instead of Jewlery, you ask your husband for the leather bound TFE for your birthday. Which reminds me - isn’t the WoA coming out in leather bound this year? I know what I’m asking for this birthday...

I transferred from WoT. They make me think. And the twists are mind boggling. And the avalanche is just an awesome ride. Mistborn. ALL Mistborn. And any random thing that has to with Scadrial. 5? 7? 8? It varies... more right now because OB will be released soon. VERY much so after BoM and SH were released. I’ll probably fade away to a 2 or 3 after I’ve read OB, then be back as a 10 after TLM. I suppose that depends on how you use the term. Most of us aren’t that insane, but we do love to theorize... I’ll give us an 8. Brandon being a nice person is an essential part of what makes this fan base work.

Considering how fast it’s going my guess is a novella or a short book. Possibly a long short story, but it feels like that would be closer to 50%, since those usually go faster (I think.) It could still be the Dark One, as that’s supposed to be YA. YA books tend to be shorter and more focused, but this probably just futile hoping.

The keys of knowledge? The keys of life and death (as she trained surgeons?) Keys to the heart and Soul (loving?)

Dead Spren becoming swords seems to be what happens if you have enough ideals to summon one. There is a WoB that Syl would have become a Blade if killed after Kalladin swore his third Oath.

Well, I did theorize a few weeks ago that if we are looking at Blades, not characters, Oathbringer was most likely to be revived. If Amaram has any sense he’d offer the Blade to Dalinar as recompense to Kalladin. Publicly, before other lighteyes. Re-Shefir was fascinating. And, since no one brought it up here, it’s nice to know where Brandon recycled some Am I the only one who reacted to Shallan’s covering Veil’s face with ‘Shallan’s’ by thinking ‘so you finally acknowledge that ‘Shallan’ is another mask.’ Which I actually think could be a good thing for her to admit... So these are my random reactions.

I probably should have been clearer. Kell is willing to die for a cause, but prefers not to. I consider this different than suicide, where death is part of the objective. Kell’s purpose was not to die; he wanted to live. Plan A was to live. But he was already living on borrowed time. If he didn’t die today, he would eventually so long as TFE stood. Plan B accepted that reality, and sought to make best use of the inevitable. If Kell couldn’t kill TLR, at least he would bring down the society that would have killed him anyway. But if he could survive, he would. Kell is willing to die for a greater purpose. But he would rather avoid doing so. When he gave Preservation to Vin he knew Ruin was going to kill him. He still did it. He was willing to sacrifice his existence for the world. That doesn’t make him suicidal. Generally speaking, if a soldier throws himself on a grenade to save his comrades we don’t call it suicide. It’s usually referred to as ‘heroic sacrifice.’ If a man is cornered by enemies, knows he will be killed eventually, so decides to go out with a bang - possibly saving or inspiring others in the process - we call it a desperation gambit. Basically, Kell is not one to commit suicide. That does not preclude his being willing to die for a greater purpose. But he’d prefer to survive, which is the most important factor stopping him from going to the Beyond willingly.

@Alderant

@Alderant the above question is for you.

I think each can have applications on 3 realms. I’m not certain what you mean by manipulated; could you please clarify?

And I read it thinking “what kind of idiot puts regular troops around the beserker?” There is a reason RL berserkers usually went ahead of the army... and usually fought only with other berserkers. They were shocktroops. And possibly drugged... they also experienced emotional deadness once the berserk state faded, along with a loss of strength. There are a lot of similarities between Dalinar’s experience with the Thrill and the RL berserk state.