Oversleep

We do not know how Hoid acquired Feruchemy, but the rest is accounted for: Lightweaving is his original basic system Allomancy was gained through burning lerasium (do we have confirmation that he burned it? I remember that something was unclear about this) Breaths can be given to anyone, so they're probably the easiest to have. We do not know if he can use Awakening, though.

Uh-oh. I myself have read most of cosmere, I was just asking to know how to adjust spoiler policy on FB group I'm in (and to adjust Reading Order). Since 90% of the group has only read SA and first four Mistborns... SfSitFoH is currently unavailable in my country and I doubt it will be translated before Oathbringer.

How much should be read before taking on Secret History? (I know, I know, up to Bands Of Mourning) I am talking about cases like people who read only Mistborn books. Should they read Stormlight Archive before Secret History?

The rest of Mistborn (Alloy Of Law, Shadows of Self, Bands of Mourning) or Way Of Kings, Warbreaker, Words of Radiance, Elantris....? Check out this: http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/32465-brandon-reading-order/

Oversleep bursts into blue flames.

Hoid is more of Xanatos Speech Chessmaster than a vigilante.

"What is WoB? Baby don't hurt me..." I'll see myself out.

Here I am again. Just when I think I have nothing more to add. Sigh. Okay, in today's Oversleep's rant about focuses we will talk about subdivisions of magic! *applause* Well, let's discuss subdivisions of focuses. And what it determines. Let's start with: Sel: the focus is shape (probably tied to geographic location. Or not. I don't know, honestly). One magic with many subdivisions: Aons - the user is an Elantrian Seals - the user is a Forger (haven't read Emperor's Soul, don't kill me if I got soemthing wrong please) Body movements - the user of ChayShan Some others I don't know about Nalthis: no subdivisions. Scadrial: three systems with further subdivisions. - Allomancy: the type of metal determines the power the Misting has. Mistborns have all of them. - Feruchemy: the type of metal determines the power the Ferring has. Full Feruchemists have all of them. - Hemalurgy: the type of metal determines the power the Hemalurgist can steal. Also, bind points come into play, what's interesting. Roshar: - Surgebinding: the type of spren determines the power Surgebinder has. honorspren - the Surgebinder is a Windrunner and has control over Gravity and Adhesion liespren - the Surgebinder is a Lightweaver and controls Illumination and Transformation I don't remember more spren - Voidbinding: the voidspren determines the type Voidbringer has. stormspren - the Voidbringer is in Stormform and it controlls wind (???) and lightining (???). I'm guessing here.- Listener's forms require different spren - Fabrials require different spren You all see where I'm getting with these, so I won't state the obvious thing for me to say. THE END OF "SPREN ARE ROSHAR'S FOCUS" THE REST OF THE POST: Now, what's interesting is that the only magic system without subfocuses is Awakening. Sure, there are different Commands, but they work more in way like "there are different Aons". I wonder what would be another magic system using Commands (more Shards on Nalthis or not Endowment). Sure, Mistborn use all of these metals, but they're still just users of all the subdivisions. Like they're superMisting. (If I start talking about classes and inheriting and superclasses and interfaces, just shoot me.) Another new terms (apart from "subfocus"): Discrete Magic™ and Continuous Magic™. Discrete Magic™ is any magic with subdivisions (and subfocuses, of course): Sel, Scadrial, Roshar. Continuous Magic™ is any magic without subdivisions: Nalthis. Now, what does it mean? I forgot where I was getting with this. Another thing worth a note: on Scadrial, all the metals in different systems where the same (that's why Compounding is possible). But on Roshar, there are different spren for different systems (Radiantspren and Voidspren). But on the other hand, all Surge- and Void- Binding gives access to the same ten Surges but in different ways (there is a WoB about this). I wonder what would happen if you attracted both a Radiantspren and Voidspren which give access to the same Surges. Maybe this is a way to mix the magics and achieve some sort of Rosharan Compounding.

Awakening also depends heavily on Endowment's Intent.

Actually it doesn't work that way. You become 100% more lucky for something like 50 seconds. I think Sazed will explain it better than me: Tapping isn't proportional. There is a WoB out there about it, but I can't find it now. I had a thought: Storing: you Ruin yourself and Preserve the power Tapping: you Preserve yourself and Ruin the power In that way it's still power of balance... sort of...

I bet this is about Eshonai. It fits quite well. "All is withdrawn from me" probably references the fact that she was basically possessed by odium. This is also in line with her attacking her friends (alternatively her closest parshendi friends she killed or perhaps the humans she tried to make peace with), and standing for a cause she would have previously thought as evil. Also, the most obvious reference, "I raise my hand. The storm responds" is almost certainly a reference to the effects of storm form. Actually it's Kaladin protecting Elhokar from Moash. Moash saved his life during some bridge run. Kaladin protects Elhokar who "killed his promises" (the chapter "The one who killed promises" is the Dalinar visiting Kaladin in prison and telling him about Elhokar sending Roshone to Hearthsone what ultimately effected in Kaladin breaking his promise about bringing Tien back home). Raising hand is stretching the arm out for Shardblade and storm responding is Stormfather accepting the words or Syl turning int Shardblade and falling into Kaladin's hand.

You're right. You're so right. How could I overlook this? Of course, it only means it's not mandatory for Investiture to assume the form of focus, but it's still possible. Anyway, how do I see magic: Investiture -> focus -> effect The magic user actively uses the focus: draws a shape, burns/taps or stores/stabs with metal, gives the Command. Investiture is on one side of the room, it flows through the focus and produces effect. Of course, sometimes a mind must tell specifically what to do: what to Steelpush; which memory to retrieve; that you want not only stab this guy with a spike but also steal his power; a Command needs mental image (or something like this, cannot recall). So then I take a look on Roshar and what do I see? Radiant inhales himself with Stormlight. That's Investiture. Radiant Binds a Surge. That's effect. Focus is somewhere in between. There is mind to guide it (like with Steelpushing), but there is no sensation of choosing one Surge or another (like is with metals). So what's left, since it isn't Stormlight, Surge nor mind? The spren. Similar analyse can be done with other forms of magic. That was my train of thought; that is why I think spren are Roshar's focus (and a couple of different things, but let's leave it at that).

Why do Feruchemists need different tinminds for different senses, but different memories can be stored in one coppermind?

I thought the topic would be about overtapping. Like, tapping at an accelerated rate, not +0.5 but like +20. We know that to become two times stronger by tapping pewtermind more power is spent up than a simple +1. Some power is expended in process of compressing the power, so to speak. I wonder why is that. Where the power goes? How is Feruchemy end-neutral if power is lost?

Hm. I'd rather associate Gravity with Violet. Then Green with... Elasticity. Springs, Stress, Deformation. One can have much fun with it.

It's the same process (leak from the spiritual) but nobody said that gems are Splinters of Honor. ... I'll think of a way to word it better, since right now it doesn't make sense. BTW, I think I don't have anything more to add about Roshar's Focus but this: the bonding part to me seems very similar to how Awakening requires Endowing. So Surgebinding is of Honor, because it requires Bonds and Oaths.

Forgiveness would pair with Odium very well. BTW, Devotion + Odium = Love-Hate Shard

I, for one, would love to see an actual usable magic system of Odium. One that's not inherently evil. Like Hemalurgy (yeah, I hear the screams that no magic is evil in itself. But hear me out.). Nobody would be willing to go through with everything Hemalurgy requires. Even executing murderers with it is unacceptable for me since the donor would be unable to move on to afterlife. Murder part could be excused as means of executing convicted murderers or something along this lines, but condemning that person to wander endlessly, unable to move on to afterlife? I'm out. Voidbinding is unusable by the person who wishes to Voidbind - the Voidbinding uses the person as conductor, but the person is suppresed and cannot use it, therefore it's useless. I can't see someone think "I need something powerful to do X and Y" and then sign up for a voidspren. Because after merging with it it's Odium in control and not the person.

I'm totally OK with spren carrying around two Surges as focus. It's consistent with my theory about spren being focus. On the side note, chunks of Preservation's and Ruin's power condensed as the world's focus - as nuggets of metal which could be used in Metallic Arts. If my theory is true, Honor's power assumed the Roshar's focus as spren or (if it's the Surges) assumed the form of beings who carry focus.

I strongly disagree with this whole argument that discussion about the focuses adds nothing because we cannot reach any conclusion. Einstein disliked quantum, he perceived it as "spooky action at a distance". Yet quantum computers will be capable of feats magnitudes more awesome than supercomputers of today. Just because we don't know everything or we discuss about it doesn't mean it's wrong or unimportant. Except Scadrial's metal's composition is very similar to Sel's forms. There is both a WoB about it and Ars Arcanum of Alloy Of Law. We're still early in the Cosmere books, we're the first scholars of Investiture. In five years we will know more and at the end it will all make sense. Right now we know of nine Shards out of sixteen and we do not know a whole lot (about some we only know that they exist or existed). We know of four major Shardworlds out of ten. Of course we cannot categorize and analyse everything properly at this time, but what's the point in stopping us from trying? As for your argument that only mind matters, there is a WoB out there that Vin burning mists could do many different things and not only effects of burning metals. But without the mists, the metals are what cause the specific effect. It's not like you burn metals to get Investiture and later your mind throws spells around; no, burning specific metal gives you specific effect. Mind is of no consequence here. Tineye burning tin will always have all of his senses augmented, he cannot will any of them down. Vin poked at this new reserve inside, threw it at Kelsier and the result was Rioting. Investiture is electricity, focus is the machine and magic user is person who presses button "ON". I bet you could take a fresh Elantrian who knows nothing about AonDor, show him what to draw and he will and it will have the exactly same effect as the Elantrian who knows what is he trying to achieve by drawing these Aons. One of them was drawing glowing shapes in the air and stuff happened. The second one was letting Dor flow in the world by set of carefully chosen shapes who act as proper wavelength for power to achieve desired effect. Mind behind those actions was different, yet what mattered was the focus.

So far we've only seen two people who performed magic without focus - Vin directly burning mists and Vin fueling Elend's Allomancy. Both are extremely special cases. Even Tenth Heightening still requires Command (mental, sure, but it's said it's dificult). Well, the idea is that Splinter of Honor assumed the form of the focus - in this case, spren. All the magic on Roshar can be performed without gemstones (apart from fabrials, but that's obvious). Just walk into the highstorm. If magic doesn't really require certain element to work, it's highly unlikely that this element is the focus. All magic on Roshar require spren and Stormlight, and seeing as there are different types of spren who do different things and one type of Stormlight (really, paralells with Breaths and Command are just waiting to be drawn here!) I am almost sure that spren are the focus.

I meant that they aren't inluded in the list.

First off, not English fansites. Here in Poland we're trying to build a stronger fanbase and while I managed to find out about one or two Sharders from Poland and tell them about the site and FB group, I'd like to start the topic to let them know about it. Since Polish fanbase was non-existant until about year ago, they probably don't know it exists now and they certainly would be helpful on strenghtening the fanbase and... well, I could also use help from more experienced Sharders who know their Realmatic stuff in writing articles about Cosmere, because right now I'm the only one Realmatically aware admin on mentioned site. They'd be also very helpful in catching mistakes in translation since I don't really read the books in English. So, can I start a non-English topic in "Social groups, Clans and Guilds"?

I found out about Brandon about... 14 months ago. Or maybe a little earlier. Between year and a half and a year and two months, anyway. I started seeing in bookstores that huge book with abnormaly big format and pretty small font, cover was quite different and the blurb sounded interesting (and there was "I was delighted by that book. What else I could say." - Patrick Rothfuss). So I thought "I haven't had anything good to read since Wise Man's Fear and Rothfuss says it's good..." and checked the internet and internet said it is truly awesome, so when the time came when family starts asking what I want for Christmass, I pointed my grandma to The Way Of Kings. I haven't get around to reading it until mid April (first year of university, I was fighting for life there!), but when I got sick for a week, I read it. I was like "Oh my God... There are still miracles unknown in this world". Then I searched a little on the Internet and found out about Cosmere and my brain just kept thinking "Awesome" on the repeat. Then I went on insane hunt through libraries in the city and found one, just one which was still not in the Web which happened to have Elantris, Warbreaker and Mistborns. Then I bought my mom WoR (she read WoK before I did) and then I got Mistborn for birthday (first of big Cosmere reprint). And two months ago I joined the Shard and month ago became one of the admins of our country fan site. Because people deserve to know what is Realmatic Theory and they won't find out themselves. *goes back to writing article about Investiture*