dvoraen

Yeah, I've been thinking they get kind of a "present day" glimpse of the Spiritual Realm (similar to how burning atium works), but I think that these peeks are triggered by specific events, which is kind of hinted with another epigraph: Since that epigraph is presumably from a Truthwatcher (it was recorded on an emerald), the word "revelation" is a rather interesting choice, when placing Ivory's comment alongside it. As for Renarin, well... I think there's all sorts of weirdness and exceptions that pertain to Renarin in the first place.

Honestly, I think the "abilities even more esoteric than the Voidbindings" are those rare talents granted by the Nightwatcher (or Cultivation) to people, such as Lift's Investiture-producing metabolism. Only one person having it (that we know of) is pretty esoteric, to the point even Nale was caught off guard by it.

I've been speculating a bit on Chemoarish, but the one thing I've been wondering the most is if we have actually seen a hint of her in Edgedancer. I mean, literally a glimpse, gone in a blink. This is when Hauka makes note of "strange black dust" that was gone in a moment. There was some speculation that this might have been a glimmer of a highspren trying to bond with her as she was showing investigative, Skybreaker like tendencies, but now with Oathbringer out showing us exactly what form highspren manifest in the Physical Realm, I discarded the thought that it was one of them. The black dust also didn't strike me as spillover from the Cognitive Realm, either, as there wasn't any indication that dust even exists in Shadesmar. So I discarded the thought it was from another Realm. Which then made me wonder what on earth black dust could be, unless it was a piece of the Unmade referred to as the Dustmother. Scattering yourself around as dust in the wind seems like a good way to, er, get the lay of the land. Sja-anat might Enlighten and use spren to act as spies for her, but she isn't necessarily the only Unmade who could gather intelligence.

Yeah, I agree they're the same. I find it interesting that those symptoms seem to be stimulated by proximity to the Unmade, too. (I'm not trying to insinuate the Unmade being the source of them, just so I'm clear.) The point I'm trying to make is that I think Szeth having those screams hound him, in addition to @Fire&Water's point about training with all 10 Surges, make him better suited for handling Yelig-nar, particularly if Yelig-nar's reputedly accompanied-by-wails speech resembles those screams Szeth hears.

Yeah, they're not Roshar-specific, but if they are anything like the "wails of those [Yelig-nar] consumed", that would up Szeth as more understanding of Yelig-nar, making him the better counteragent towards potentially capturing Yelig-nar.

Yeah, I don't think Yelig-nar is completely in the gemstone either when someone ingests it. He just uses it as the doorway to someone's soul that he reportedly consumes. One thing I want to comment on is that I think the transformation Yelig-nar imparts is virtually instantaneous. The crystal effects we're seeing are probably that of what it looks in the Physical Realm as Yelig-nar is consuming someone. Amaram was able to use multiple powers before he turned into a pretty pile of crystal, after all. I am hoping Brandon does an AMA on Reddit or somewhere soon, so I can try to get an answer as to whether crystal is what "desiccated Spiritual essence" looks like. The question I have is at what point is Yelig-nar speaking and not the host? The other question I have is whether Yelig-nar is in an incomplete form or not. I am (currently) of the mindset that he's not, but a part of this depends on which (how many) of the Unmade did Gavilar Kholin succeed in finding, and if he kept them imprisoned did he siphon off some of their trapped state into other perfect gemstones? Navani's made it very clear that Gavilar has likely been fraternizing with "unwholesome elements" for some time, and it seems entirely plausible that Gavilar found out about Ba-Ado-Mishram from one of the sapient Unmade if not from Odium directly talking to him, as he has to Dalinar and others. That said, I have Kaladin slated to be the person most likely to handle Dai-Gonarthis. Someone who battles with depression seems a dead ringer for handling an Unmade that might well perpetuate states of despair. Likewise, I see Szeth handling Yelig-nar due to his impressive willpower. Plus, the "screams" Szeth hears could have some relevance to Yelig-nar supposedly speaking with the "wails of those he consumed."

Personally, I was wondering if Renarin used something like Spiritual Illumination, where it's like the pivotal scene in The Sixth Sense when Bruce Willis's character realizes what's going on. Kind of like that, except it caused the thunderclast's animator to vacate the body due to being forced to "see that truth," you could say.

There's also the question of whether each Bondsmith swears the same (Second to Fifth) Ideals as the other two. I can't help but feel like the Nightwatcher and the Sibling have very different methods of leadership and cooperation, particularly the Nightwatcher as she is mostly of Cultivation (growth and development) and not Honor (unity and upholding promises). It's part of why I think Navani could be another potential Bondsmith, but bonded to the Nightwatcher simply because Navani tends to "cultivate" talents and cooperation in others by encouraging them to work together to solve problems; she encourages people to grow in both interpersonal skills and their own abilities. The best example of this would be the projects such as the levitating platforms during Words of Radiance. Navani also has a great deal of experience in the give-and-take ("boons and curses") aspects of leadership as well, as seen when she's proposing how the coalition can work (the Azish with administration, Thaylens with trade, and so on).

While I'm not disagreeing with the title, I think there's much more to Rock. I'm really reading between the lines regarding Rock's conversation with his wife, and I got the impression that Rock was forced to kill his older siblings (Sifi and Sinaku'a), and that was part of what made him want to give up and accept death by bridge-running. In other words, I don't think he put poo in Sadeas's food as to why he became a bridgeman; he killed others in his envoy and then surrendered and was sent there. Note that when I say forced to do so, I think that it was because Sifi and Sinaku'a wanted to take up arms in retribution, and that's a big no-no in Horneater culture, or at least Rock's family. So to preserve at least his family's honor, he made a very very difficult choice, and couldn't bring himself to want to go back and confess that he had to do so, as it had all sorts of other consequences back home.

I too don't think Shallan has DID, just the very strong desire to be "someone other than Shallan Davar." Surgebinding is said to potentially widen the cracks in your soul, so I'm sure that played its own role as well, particularly since Shallan seems to reprogram herself mnemonically to emulate how she perceives the persona acting. This can be seen very clearly when she "births" Radiant in the beginning part of Oathbringer (top of p162 hardback edition for the exact idea of which I'm referring). Not only that, but keep in mind that Shallan directly exposed herself to not one, but two of the Unmade, one of which specifically aims to consume Cognitive aspects. I'd say she was pretty damaged by her contact with Ashertmarn in particular*, but this isn't the sole cause of the problem with her. It's pretty much what Wit said, then add in the fact her powers allow her to change and the fact she took a beating mentally from one of the Unmade, and it really shouldn't be a surprise that she became a mess that needs time to heal towards the end. * Random aside, but I think inexperienced Lightweavers in particular do not do well with coming into direct contact with Ashertmarn or Nergaoul, since Lightweavers' abilities let them be Cognitively malleable.

This is probably why gemstones haven't been used: the Fused aren't readily available for capture, for one; secondly, if we assume it's possible, I think they're able to break free from a gemstone more easily than a mindless spren. Re-Shephir somehow escaped her imprisonment inside a (presumably perfect) gemstone, and she's a slight step above 'mindless.' The Fused are probably hard to capture in a gemstone in the first place, as well.

Just get Yelig-nar to consume them. Easy! On the serious, though, I wonder if it's possible to contain them in a gemstone the way that normal spren and the Unmade can be.

Yay speculate! Chemoarish Short version: I think she's like The Blob, or a "death cloud". She consumes physical matter; she's a direct version of Physical destruction. I also think she's currently imprisoned in a perfect gem. Being referred to as the Dustmother is what makes me think she's the more "direct destruction" type of Unmade, meaning it's really obvious what the signs of her presence are: odd forms of damage. The interesting thing is that she's confused with the Nightwatcher, and we have multiple examples where people think the Nightwatcher is out to get you and curse you, and so on. The fact that there is a bit of overlap in people's minds makes me wonder if Chemoarish can leave after-effects on anyone she consumes or partly consumes. Perhaps transforming physical matter similar to Soulcasting, but instead you get mutations and other freaky things? Random aside, but I wonder if Chemoarish is the reason for there not being a fortress in the Purelake anymore, to the point that there isn't even a hint of its presence. Dai-gonarthis I think Dai-gonarthis affects people similar to a dementor, which is to say one is forced to experience negative emotions or memories unceasingly. I think people consumed by Dai-gonarthis are forced to relive and/or experience those emotions while this Unmade takes away everything until all that's left is an empty shell that searches for release through death. That said, I don't think there's much to say here as to why Dai-gonarthis can cause forms of insanity as it feels like an Occam's Razor matter. I also can't help but wonder if we've seen some of the effects of this Unmade on the world, but on a very subtle or small scale (see below for thoughts on why). I've also been wondering if this Unmade has been nudging Kaladin's depression at times. Sylphrena comments there's "something wrong" with him and she doesn't know what, which makes me think that there's more in play with regards to Kaladin's mood. Another point is that I think Dai-gonarthis is imprisoned on Aimia, but imperfectly. The scouring of Aimia possibly being caused by the Unmade is kind of surprising, but Hessi speculates that Dai-gonarthis is the reason for it. This is the reason why I wonder if Dai-gonarthis is one of the sapient Unmade (alongside Sja-anat, Ba-Ado-Mishram and supposedly Yelig-nar). If Dai-gonarthis is able to nudge select people to feel certain negative emotions, he(?) could have essentially conditioned people to react in negative ways to specific subjects. This is how I see the scouring of Aimia taking place: over time people became distrustful, fearful and scared of the Aimians, with Dai-gonarthis's help, and eventually did something about it. The Aimians realized what happened, and they were somehow able to use their peculiar abilities to "anchor" Dai-gonarthis there, limiting that Unmade's influence. I say "peculiar abilities" because Soulcasters and possibly other "ancient" fabrials seem to have originated with the Aimians. If they can make those devices, then they could very well have made a device that can imprison one of the Unmade.

It was both Mraize's letter and WoB, but primarily the former (see below). The 'friend' Shallan's mother brought to confront Shallan's father was the one who was part of the Skybreakers.

This (bolded) isn't always true, though. They've been attracted to more than just the movement of the element of air. Bolded emphasis mine. I don't think this scene involves anything regarding protection or leadership, but rather Hobber regaining something he had lost. Even then, it got the attention of the windspren despite the fact he was "just sitting there" trying to breathe in Stormlight.

RE: Bolded. Yeah I was unclear about that. I meant of the main characters. How Mraize could possibly know some of the things he does, though, is a question whose answer I'm curious to see. I've been wondering if the Ghostbloods have access to Fortune or a form of precognition, to get the information that they do. A spy network just can't fully report on some of these topics, even the esoteric ones such as the Unmade and their actions, and it's very clear that Thaidakar and the Ghostbloods have a strong interest in magic in general. I wouldn't be surprised if they steal the gemstone containing Nergaoul so they can try to gain access to Voidbinding with it, for example. Do I think Sja-anat potentially made contact with the Ghostbloods, directly or indirectly? Yeah, I think so. I was just trying to say that of our protagonist Radiants, only Shallan has any direct exposure to Sja-anat, and is specifically being watched by that particular Unmade.

Which then begs one question I've been wondering about, as it ties into this thread somewhat: Has Odium and/or Sja-anat corrupted the Windrunner Honorblade before it was given to Moash? It seems strange that he would use Stormlight when it was given him by one of the Fused, especially when Brandon left it (deliberately?) unclear what kind of Light was in the sphere.

I've been wondering if Sja-anat can puppeteer or possess living things via her lesser corrupted spren and in so doing consume memories and knowledge. Part of why I say this comes from the vision in Words of Radiance: (Emphasis mine) What does "without a carrier" mean, unless that red-eyed, shadowy spren that Dalinar saw was able to bond with and/or inhabit people or animals? We know Sja-anat can directly interface with her corrupted spren, as shown with Shallan and the corrupted gloryspren, so it only stands to reason that if that spren is bound to someone, she could potentially have an opening through the firewall, so to speak, to "hack" the person bonded with that spren. Either way, I'm really curious if we'll see Renarin speak with her and vice-versa, on account of Glys's bond.

RE: Bolded. I know. That's why I said correctly predicting. It's been made very clear that even a Vessel gets it wrong for even short-term (near future) precognition, so there are other factors in play that undermine the ability to see the future.

I think Death Rattles are a side-effect of what Moelach is really doing, myself. Exactly what that is, I'm not sure, but if I really wanted to gamble, it would be that Moelach helps guide Odium towards correctly predicting the future that absolutely will happen. Odium can see far ahead due to access to the Spiritual Realm (and other reasons), but one thing we know for a fact is that Vessels cannot always accurately predict the future that transpires. Cultivation couldn't see six(?) Rosharan years ahead and be sure that Dalinar would reject Odium, for example. Moelach could very well be a means of "planting signposts" indicating which way the temporal wind is blowing, so to speak. I think it's very clear from Oathbringer that Odium keeps an eye on the Unmade (part of the reason I don't trust Sja-anat's motives), and having an Unmade that can help give him an edge in future events seems pretty useful to me. I wouldn't be surprised to hear that Cultivation is better at precognition than Odium (without Moelach), personally. I've also been wondering if one of the reasons the Unmade were created/unmade, is that they also serve as a method of preventing a Shard from reusing souls, similar to how the Fused and the Heralds are "recycled." Yelig-nar just consumes and absorbs someone completely, from the sound of it; it wouldn't do for someone that has used every Surge to suddenly be reborn and/or converted to the other side after that. Similarly, Moelach's touch "seeps into a soul," which sounds like having a Spiritual snack to me.

Right now, I'm thinking it's either Sja-anat or Nergaoul, with the scales leaning heavily towards the latter. Sja-anat feels a bit like an anachronism but I think there is evidence supporting this. Sja-anat I say Sja-anat partly because she seems to have an explicit interest in Shallan and Shallan alone, which really seems kind of weird to me (and makes me suspicious of Unmade precognition getting involved). Shallan is the only person who has had contact with Sja-anat, and no one else could see her "reflection" in the mirror while speaking to Shallan at the Oathgate in Kholinar. This to me implies there's a special Connection here, including the corrupted gloryspren managing to find exactly where Shallan is in Shadesmar. That does not seem like a coincidence. Not only that, there is also the matter of Sja-anat being given the epithet of Taker of Secrets. Why that is, is still a question I can't answer, but I can't help but wonder if it has to do with Lyn Davar's secret (his daughter killed his wife) attracting the attention of Sja-anat in the first place. But there's a big problem with it being Sja-anat: no evidence of corrupted spren has been observed until Kholinar's siege*. This feels like a pretty big giveaway that Sja-anat was imprisoned, has been dormant, or was actually trapped on Braize somehow. It's also entirely possible that Sja-anat was the Unmade that Gavilar Kholin found and Aesudan released her. Regardless, Sja-anat does not appear to have been active on Roshar (that we know) before Oathbringer. Nergaoul Nergaoul is my other, and primary candidate for a Steris-list of reasons: 1) People consumed by Nergaoul repeatedly and over time have been shown to have a strong inclination for violent and/or aggressive and/or competitive behavior. Dalinar and other Alethi are the prime examples, and we've seen plenty of evidence of this in the books so I'm not going to repeat it. 2) Shallan's father exhibited very similar traits to Dalinar regarding anger, up to and including violence towards others as well as eventually "competing" with other Vedan aristocrats. 3) Nergaoul is active on Roshar, and has been shown to wander around a bit, particularly between Alethkar and Jah Keved. * Glys makes this timeline really hard to pin down, but I can't help but wonder if Sja-anat was actually active near the Shattered Plains.

No one! Because I think someone asked the wrong question. I mean, Jezrien supposedly was able to tell that one of the Unmade (Moelach) was nearby in one of Dalinar's flashbacks, as well as insinuating he can sense Dalinar was fractured/consumed by one of them. That doesn't seem like a "power" so much as an augmentation if that makes sense. I guess you say I think the answer to "Is it a 'power' to have heightened abilities?" is "Not necessarily." We know they have capabilities related to the other Heralds just from Ash sensing Jezrien's death. We still don't have the full details of the Oathpact, so it could relate to that, but having "none" for "innate powers" (note the emphasis) makes me suspicious of slippery answers.

Here you go: Personally, I think Aesudan was nudged heavily into ingesting the gemstone to get Yelig-nar to possess her and thinking it was her own discovery. I've been wondering how exactly she figured it out*, but the implication is that Odium nudged her, since he knew about her being consumed by Yelig-nar, or she researched the myths about the Unmade and came across that tidbit. What's more interesting is that, reading between the lines, Gavilar either had found Yelig-nar or one of the other Unmade (doubtful it was Sja-anat or Ashertmarn, though). I find it weird he would not have discovered the same information Hessi did for Mythica regarding gemstone ingestion, however. I'm thinking Gavilar was trying to bond one of the Unmade in a more "I'm in control" kind of way. Or perhaps better stated: he wasn't an idiot and didn't just dive in like someone else did. * There is still the possibility that the Unmade that was found was Ba-Ado-Mishram and "planning this" is supposedly something she does (in addition to being able to Connect with others and holding the reins). The point I'm trying to make is that it's possible that Aesudan did manage to bond with an Unmade, except she was effectively manipulated into becoming Yelig-nar's host to get her out of the way and/or feed Yelig-nar. I think Aesudan has been drawing the eyes of the Unmade to Kholinar for quite some time, with what we know now. It explains why at least three of them were there, if not four or more (counting any captives). Chemoarish, Ba-Ado-Mishram and Dai-Gonarthis are the ones that are unaccounted for, for their locations, so any and all of them could have been found by now. I still think Dai-Gonarthis is captive on Aimia though.

My money is on "bleeding over from Scadrial." I'm not sure why or how that works, but I can't help but think that mistspren originate from Scadrial's Cognitive Realm that developed sapience due to how Roshar works with regards to Splinters.

Part of why I attribute windspren to the sentiment of freedom also ties into Jasnah's observations about that particular element (air and the wind) with respect to Soulcasting: