Pathfinder

The shape of the seal is an eye, not the central design. Shai also comments on how there are surgeons that use stamps to forge the body. They used stamps to heal Ashraven so well it appears that he was never even hurt. The reason they needed Shai was because she knew how to use soulstamps, but all of it is forgery. All use stamps to convince an object/body something is true. Regardless we are getting into semantics. We could just as easily define all magics on Sel as one magic system because they all use the Dor, they all use symbols, and all versions derive the symbols/shapes from the places they originate. My point was that even magics from entirely other planets can mimic powers, so why not Aons? There is an Aon that does the same thing as the surge of transportation. There is an aon that does the same thing as the surge of transformation. There is an aon that does the same thing as the surge of illumination, and there is a surge that does the same thing as regrowth. So why should be assume it is impossible that there could an aon that does something similar to lifeless or skeletals? Btw, below is the quote where the seal is described "When he withdrew his hand, he left a glowing red seal in the wood. It was shaped like an eye. " I explained above why to me that doesn't matter and effects nothing regarding my post.

Have a quote or WoB to back that up?

Lol, then wait till he rests in his little house as an old man. Which vin got to see. To which ull reply "well he wouldn't do that". Then I'll come up with something. Then you with something. Then back and forth not answering who is more powerful with investiture. That's why I see it as pointless to argue what the person "might" do. Take their powers as they stand and place them in a neutral situation and see what happened. That's how I view it at least

For me its the only way to accurately (as much as we can) measure abilities. Otherwise I could say a normal elsecaller would set up shop in the cognitive realm. Find the lord ruler. Wait till he is sleeping, soulcast the metal minds to smoke from the cognitive realm and then the lord ruler dies of old age. So normal radiant beats lord ruler. Does that mean the normal radiant is stronger in investiture than the lord ruler? Nope. Just means there is a sneaky way to use an ability that would unfairly favor one party. We could go back and forth making up scenarios till the end of time. It wouldn't in my mind teach us anything about the abilities. But to each their own

Shai names them forgeries. From Shai's own thoughts: Shai hissed softly again as the Bloodsealer removed something from within his robes. A crude soulstamp created from a bone. His “pets” would also be bone, Forgeries of human life crafted from the skeletons of the dead.

Quick and then I have to run. As we have established before, what I envision is both parties starting combat a la mortal kombat. An defined area to fight in, timer ticks down, then combat begins so it wouldn't be fair for characters to have powers already in play prior to combat beginning, but as we said before, we disagree on this so it is what it is. I said the metalminds themselves would be soulcasted first, which a normal radiant can soulcast as per WoB. Once those are soulcasted away, the lord ruler has no means to continue to compound, and thus becomes a "normal" person that is easily soulcasted away especially by someone with a heralds power level.

Both to tap speed for the Lord Ruler, and to use gravitation on an object requires thought activation. Assuming both parties are standing a part, looking at each other, and a time flashes down to zero. The lord ruler taps speed the same time gravitation herald increases the gravity on the ground (touching it with their feet) enough to squish the lord ruler and all his metal minds. Same scenario, but with transformation the herald can make the area for miles around the lord ruler encased in stone. Again the herald does not have to reach out to the lord ruler, nor touch him. Just transform everything. Then transport to cognitive and soulcast the metal minds to smoke. Lord ruler can no longer compound. soulcast lord ruler to smoke. This went on for awhile on that other thready awhile back which is why I didn't want to go into it. was just saying i think being fueled by honor would put them on par with the lord ruler. to each their own.

I can't remember, weren't you in that thread where I already put forward my reasoning? Because I already replied to that there, and I do not want to derail this thread.

Steeldancer The Heralds, back before Honor died, were they directly powered by Honor? Brandon Sanderson Yes. You’ll find out more about that, but the Shardblades [pretty sure he means Honorblades here] were pieces of Honor’s soul that he gave them and direct access to his essence. Steeldancer Like Vin and Elend? Brandon Sanderson Yeah, a little like that. That’s why Honorblades don’t work like Shardblades do, like Radiants do. Steeldancer The second part of the question is, what would happen if they were directly powered by Honor and they were holding Nightblood? Brandon Sanderson RAFO WindRunner88 (paraphrased) So far during The Stormlight Archive we've seen that the spren bond appears to have some distinct advantages (i.e. armor, more efficient Stormlight consumption, access to a variety of weapons) over what Tanavast via the Oathpact provided the Heralds. With the exception of Nale, and the fact that the Heralds had no need for Stormlight, can you please tell me one way in which a Herald had a distinct advantage over a level 5 Radiant of their corresponding order? Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased) Rebirth. *pause* The Heralds had access to raw levels of power that no Radiant could obtain.

The honorblades are, not the heralds, and the honorblades no longer work that way.

They do (assuming of course they are only holding one honorblade). I was mentioning the surges as an for example. Writing each pairing and how it would work against the lord ruler would bring us back to that other thread. So I just mentioned that I felt unrestrained use of those surges I think would be equal to the lord ruler. But to each their own.

Ok? the question of this thread was what do we think the aon for death would do. I threw out an idea I had. Modifier or not, I think it is possible.

And yet there is the WoB that says burning enough lerasium would allow you to ascend. No mention of the holder having to be dead first.

But in my opinion, what the lord ruler is capable of is by that point he acts as if he is fueled directly by preservation. I know I said that kind of weird but maybe this will help. We see Vin get fueled directly by preservation level Kredik Shaw. We know she is able to due this because she was being fueled by preservation directly. She was leaking mist while doing this. We see the same situation occur when Wax has access to the bands. Leaking mist and everything. So my line of reasoning is the same would happen with the heralds with a direct line to honor. Gravitation, transformation, division, abrasion, illumination, cohesion, tension, progression, adhesion, and transportation at massive scales with no limit coupled with stormlight healing unrestrained. So I think they would be about equal, but this debate went on for awhile on another page. So to each their own.

You are summoning the dead? When you say death it evokes thoughts of graveyards, skulls, and the reaper. There is a magic system on sel that can do that to a degree. In what shape or form would you think a form of forgery would result in skeletals? And yet they are a thing. Sounds reasonable to me.

I am not sure I am arguing in defense of your theory? You are the one that thinks a fused using voidlight has a direct conduit to Odium. Personally I do not. So whatever the origin of the Unmade are would not affect my theory. If the fused were direct conduits to Odium, what prevents them from ascending?

Why?

I would need to dig up the information, but I believe the theory (can't remember if it was confirmed yet or not) is based on things mentioned by sja-anat, things mentioned in Hessi's Mythica, an epigraph saying "we were made and then unmade" and I think a WoB mentions it as well. sorry a lot of this is on hazy recollection. I will try to find the quotes in a bit. But the idea is that Odium turned them into the unmade.

So theoretically I think to answer your points: 1. When Kaladin saw it, it was sheathed, while when the Wall Guard saw it, it was unsheathed so they could see the blade 2. Dalinar, Kaladin and Co all saw Jezerien's honorblade and even though it too is normal size, they recognized it as a shardblade. 3. Shardblades originally needed to be carried with you everywhere before they learned how to bond and dismiss it via infused gemstone 4. Dalinar and Kaladin remark how although shardplate can look like normal plate, just watching the way it moves and the design, you can clearly tell it is shardplate versus normal armor. Why not the same regarding normal sized shardblades? Seeing the gleam of the blade. How it seems to shine, etc.

We have WoB that say the honorblades were originally fueled by honor directly, and that the heralds had access to levels of investiture no radiant could attain so I think the heralds as they were originally might have been up there with the Lord Ruler, or depending on how powerful their surges could have been, more so than the lord ruler. Imagine soulcasting or using division on an entire city. That is how I picture it at least. But no concrete information yet (other than how the honorblades used to work, and the investiture the heralds had access to), so the rest is conjecture.

I know this post was made 2 years ago, but since this thread was necroed already, I figured I would add the recent information that we have regarding the original intentions of Eshonai. Not calling you out, as I know you probably are well aware of this quote already, but quoted you to give the WoB context. This is more for new readers of this thread. Hope that covered all the bases! Questioner Were you intending to kill Eshonai off from the beginning of the series, or is that a decision you made later on? Brandon Sanderson That was a decision I made later in the outlining process. It was not begun that way, but it became obvious I needed to do it fairly early on. Why? Questioner I was just wondering, because as I was reading Way of Kings, a lot of people thought she was going to be a continuing character, maybe even be one of the good guys later on. Brandon Sanderson Right. The decision I came to, and it was probably-- Trying to remember exactly when it was. When I came to the decision that Venli was more interesting as a perspective, viewpoint character than her sister was, because we already had characters in the series whose attribute was paragon of their-- This kind of paragon soldier who's trying to do the right thing is well covered in The Stormlight Archive. She was intended originally, but pretty early in the revision process, I decided it needed to go the other direction, 'cause Venli just worked way better as a viewpoint character. Questioner Is Eshonai still getting a flashback book? Brandon Sanderson Yes, she's still getting a flashback book. I didn't change any of that. In fact, before I even began the series, I knew there were some characters who would not make it to their flashback book, and I wanted to make sure that I made clear that that could happen. Questioner You said that before, I was like, I want to hear it. Brandon Sanderson Eshonai was intended to continue through, but I changed that pretty quickly, when I realized-- like I said.

I think you are grossly over estimating the number of Aviar, as well as under estimating the value of a Aviar ensuring the survival of a trapper, especially when we have no idea what the other talents are. My thoughts exactly.

Random thought, what if it does Necromancy? As in raise the dead and control them, but not as bringing them back to life. Kinda like a lifeless? We see other aons mimic powers from other systems (soulcasting, and lightweaving), so why not lifeless?

Brandon was asked about what Marsh meant about doing his brothers work. Ill summarize it and then post the actual WoB below because it shouldn't take me long to find. Basically Marsh feels his brother's work is the whole survivor schtick inspiring people to carry on, and etc. Marsh does not feel Kelsier is doing this anymore Questioner At the end of “Alloy of Law” Marsh tells Marasi he is giving the diary to Wax because “.. he does my brother's work”. At this time it was a reminder of Kelsier, but with Secret History and the third book out why does Marsh think we need someone to do his brother's work? Isn't Kelsier doing that himself? Brandon Sanderson Well. (laughs) Marsh is of multiple minds on what's happening with Kelsier at this time. When he's referencing his brother's work, he's specifically tells Marasi speaking to the lore of the Survivor. Like he's specifically talking to somebody, and he does believe this. He may not think that Kelsier is doing Kelsier's work anymore. But that depends on... You will see interaction between Marsh and Kelsier in the future.

Because they are not drawing the power directly from Honor like the honorblades used to? I put forward that I do not think the fused draw power from Odium directly either, but was going along with your theory to think it fully out. And I disagreed with it, because I think in that case then Yelig-nar (who I am not sure if it has been explicitly confirmed, but I believe it is at least heavily implied that the Unmade were originally singers, or living beings transformed into the Unmade. Because of that they could potentially ascend.) could then feed directly on Odium which Odium would have a pretty big problem with.