Pathfinder

As Karger said, Jasnah was soulcasting the poison out of her blood by either soulcasting it into blood, or soulcasting all of her blood into fresh blood. Shallan still needed to have bed rest and recover. Yes it is. Ico states the Shallan she can do it because of her ability, but the water is different. Will need to pull up the scene to show for clarity. Will edit when I get it. Oathbringer page 927 Cradling the sphere in one hand, Ico touches the glass bead he'd put in the fabrial "This is a soul" he said "Soul of water, but very cold" "Ice?" "Ice from a high, high place" he said "Ice that has never melted. Ice that has never known warmth." The light in Kaladin's sphere dimmed as Ico concentrated "You know how to manifest souls?" "No" Kaladin said "Some of your kind do" he said "it is rare. Rare among us too. The gardeners among the cultivationspren are best at it. I am unpracticed" The ocean bead expanded and grew cloudy, looking like ice. Kaladin got a distrinct sense of coldness from it. Pulling up the next scene where Shallan and Ico speak about it before they leave the boat. Will need a bit. edit: wait might be the honor spren's ship. Oathbringer page 1008 "I would like some beads, Captain" Shallan said "To practice my art, if you please. I need to do something to pass the time on this trip" "Manifesting random souls is dangerous, Lightweaver. I would not have you doing it wantonly upon my deck" "I promise not to manifest anything" she said "I merely want to practice visualizing the souls inside the beads. it's part of my training." "Very well" "Thank you" "It was a simple request" the captain said "Just be careful. I supposed you'd need Stormlight to manifest anyway, but still...be careful." "What happens if we carry the beads away too far? They are tied to objects in the Physical Realm, right?" "You can carry them anywhere in Shadesmar you wish." the captain said" THeir tie is through the Spiritual Realm, and distance doesn't matter. However, drop them - let them free - and they'll work their way back to the general location of their physical counterpart." he eyed her "You are very new to all of this. When did it begin again? Radiants, swearing Ideals?"

The full lashing is the one that Skybreakers and by extension Szeth do not have access to because it is the surge of adhesion.

You sure you are thinking of the right surge? Soulcasting has nothing to due with healing. Jasnah soulcasted the rope to smoke via the cognitive realm in the deleted scene. Shallan and Jasnah have on multiple occasions used soulcasting to summon the appearance of objects around a bead (the wall Shallan uses to defend herself from the fused, and etc). So you can definitely soulcast in the cognitive realm. In fact you can do it two ways in the cognitive realm apparently, you can while in the cognitive realm soulcast a object in the physical realm, and you can by feeding a stone stormlight, cause its physical presence to show up in the cognitive realm (the hallway Jasnah summons before Gavilar's death, the statue, the "raft", and so on)

I would need to pull up the scene, but didn't at the battle of thaylenah, Jasnah went up to Shallan with her three illusions (Shallan, Veil, Radiant). In that situation Radiant was wearing armor. Jasnah reaches a hand out to put on Shallan's shoulder, and goes right through it. Radiant then says over here, and then it dissipates? Hmmm, before I comment further I want to pull up the scene, one moment, will edit post when I get the quote so the scene doesn't mention armor but i think earlier radiant was mentioned wearing it. will dig for that one. in the meantime here is the scene I am referring to Oathbringer page 1178 Jasnah turned toward Radiant, Veil and Shallan. She took Shallan by the arm - but Shallan wavered, then puffed away. Jasnah froze, then turned to Veil. "Here" Radiant said, tired stumbling to her feet. SHe was the one Jasnah could feel. She blinked away tears "Are you...real?" found it! Oathbringer page 1149 Another hand took Shallan's on the right. Radiant, in glowing garnet Shardplate, tall, with braided hair. Reserved and cautious. She nodded to Shallan with a steady, determined look. That scene preceded the scene where Jasnah touches a physical Radiant instead of an illusory Shallan. Also Shallan has used Radiant to wield the shardblade version of Pattern so she won't have to consciously face the truth that went with it. So I could see Shallan having sworn the truth for Shardplate, but is again using Radiant to wield it so she does not have to consciously confront it.

The only unmade that was a source of investiture was ba-ado-mishram, and that was because it figured out how to do that to fuel a false desolation, but prior to that odium was the source of voidlight for the fused.

soulcasting creates buildings all the time and produces materials. you didn't answer why the willshapers are travelers instead of artisans like lightweavers if their herald is the builder. edit: response to your other post: And a member of the bondsmiths had to always be present to rule over.

That's my point. If someone without any access to investiture picks up and draws nightblood, nightblood then feeds on that person's self and kills them. What allows Vasher to wield him is the extra breaths he is holding that nightblood feeds on while nightblood is drawn. Szeth goes through the same thing with stormlight. All I am saying is yelig-nar works the same way when the abilities he grants are used. If you use yelig-nar's powers without a way to feed yelig-nar, he will feed on you. At least that is my theory

This was the quote I was remembering "But as for the Bondsmiths, they had members only three, which number was not uncommon for them; nor did they seek to increase this by great bounds, for during the times of Madasa, only one of their order was in continual accompaniment of Urithiru and its thrones. Their spren was understood to be specific, and to persuade them to grow to the magnitude of the other orders was seen as seditious." Ok, but wouldn't soulcasting make more sense for engineering when it is associated with battar and shalash? Wouldn't engineering make more sense for willshapers whose herald is known as the builder? Yet the order is know for being adventurous explorers. All I am saying is it does not seem so clear cut to judge what the orders are like based on the heralds. The only thing they seem to share are the ideals which even they are Vorin constructs.

Great WoB! Also here is one regarding their name: Rah179 Could you give us a snippet about the Dustbringers? Or Willshapers? Brandon Sanderson Dustbringers never liked their name, and tried hard to get people to use another title for them. awakenedtassel Was there a mechanical reason they weren't able to effect the name change, or was it just because the new name didn't catch on? Brandon Sanderson The latter.

I could see Ishar as more advisory, but it is stated in the novels that there were three thrones present at Urithiru for the three bondsmiths. That seems very leading to me. Vedel was a surgeon yes, yet edgedancers were viewed as graceful and lethal despite their healing surge, and from what we have seen of Renarin, truthwatchers are potentially better healers. Paliah I am not sure we have any idea what was her prior occupation. I think Battar is assumed to be the scholar of the group. True some heralds line up with their orders potentially (Taln as you said, Battar, Nale), but it does not seem to be a rule is what I mean. I do not think we can assume correlation given the exceptions we have already seen. edit: actually regarding Taln, yes it is assumed he was a general and soldier, but wasn't it stated he was just an average guy? Nothing special about him, yet he stepped up to join the other 9 and ended up holding up the oathpact by himself? So he could have been just some villager from some back water village for all we know.

I agree learning more about Chana would be great, but I do not know if it would play as big a part on how the order of knights function. Jezereh is the herald of kings, yet the windrunners are scouting shock troops. Ishar was a priest, but the bondsmiths are the leaders of the radiants. If I recall correctly Chana was described as a personal guard or soldier. We have no idea how the order of the releasers will manifest.

And if Malata is the only releaser our cast gets to know, the stigma will continue into modern day. I respect that is how you feel, but I guess at the end of the day we will just have to agree to disagree. You said that Kaladin has to dehumanize the enemies in order to fight them and that Lirin cannot do that. A surgeon has to look at a person as just a body, otherwise they will be unable to cut them up, and do what is necessary. Surgery is very grisly. In many cases you are pretty much mutilating the person. Have you seen what sutures look like on a person fresh out of surgery when a limb had to be amputated, or an organ removed/transplanted? There is also a good chance of losing a person on that operating table. A surgeon has to accept that possibility in order to act and do what they have to. But again that is besides the point because based on what I have seen in the books and WoB, Lirin could be a member of the releasers, and advance all the way to the 5th oath without seeing a single second of combat. Also hailing back to the earlier point about shardblades, Brandon has said every order has access to shardplate, but members don't always use or want it. So just because you have access to weapons of war, does not mean they have to be actively used. I truly believe based on the information we have, any member of any order can be a pacifist and still advance within the order without issue. Argent (paraphrased) Did all orders of Knights Radiants use Shardplate? Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased) It was available to all of them, and they could (all) use it. Many Knights (not Orders) chose not to. There were Knights who were not soldiers and had not interest in wearing Shardplate.

In addition to what Wintersu says below, I believe 10 is a big number on the planet Roshar even prior to the creation of the Heralds. Taln is implied to be a last minute addition. Potentially the original 9 were ready to go, but Honor said they need a tenth, and Taln stepped up. Now as to how Yelig-nar works, I have a theory I posted a little while back. I think Yelig-nar works similarly to nightblood. The more you use its powers, the more it consumes. If you do not have an outside way of providing it with investiture (such as stormlight, etc), then it feeds directly on you. It is implied (to me) in the books that Aesudean held Yelig-nar in her far longer than Amaram. Not because she was a better vessel, but because she didn't actively use its powers till Kaladin and crew showed up. Meanwhile with Amaram he used the powers non-stop in his fight with Kaladin, so he was getting consumed at a break neck rate. I think Odium hadn't intended for either of them to survive the experience. i think he held back that little tidbit of information on purpose. So theoretically as long as Nale as a steady flow of stormlight while using Yelig-nar, he should be fine, but like nightblood, it consumes very quickly, so it becomes a very dangerous balancing act. Cognitive shadows are investiture themselves (but then again so is everyone and everything) so based on my theory (assuming it is true, which we have no confirmation that it is, most is conjecture just based on observation), then Nale would need to make sure he always had stormlight readily on hand or continually holding so Yelig-nar doesn't get a little hungry.....lol Good point!

So first just want to say to everyone and anyone, if Lirin doesn't feel right for you as a releaser, I totally respect and get that. My responses are just regarding what we know of radiancy and Lirin and why I think he could potentially become a member of that order. Now having said that, here I go! Hmmm, dehumanizing someone to their component parts in order to do surgery? Like what Lirin has been telling Kaladin from the very first book? Surgeons on our world (on call doctors are different, they have to get to know the person), as well as from Lirin's own mouth have to look at a person like a mechanic looks at a car. Check out the parts, fix what isn't working if they can, get rid of what is not if they can't. Building callouses and knowing when to care and when to protect yourself to do your job. So Lirin already can do that, and we aren't even speaking of enemies trying to kill you, but people he is trying to treat and save. I whole heartily agree! Thank you! It exists in the fandom because of the stigma they suffer from in the books. Their eyes glow red because their gemstone is ruby, which makes people uncomfortable since the voidbringers eyes glow red. They dislike the name dustbringers because of the potential association it carries to be like the voidbringers. So the releasers in the novel definitely deal with a social stigma against their order that they have been trying to dispel for a while. Good point about Shallan. Thing is, in my opinion the way it is worded is they don't like just breaking stuff, they want to see in side to see how things work. That sounds like surgeons, engineers, inventors, and scientists to me. It doesn't have to carry such a negative connotation, and I think Brandon placed it to sound the way it does to subvert our expectations. Here is a quote that makes dustbringers look bad. Here is a dusbringer that is "bad". All dustbringers must be bad! But then pops up a dustbringer that is a great person to subvert our expectations. Just like in my opinion the skybreakers. We have Nale that is insane leading a group that has been killing surgebinders for years casting them in a villainous role. Yet we see in Szeth's skybreaker training that part of the training includes helping locals police their people. We see Szeth using the law logically and with intent to improve. We hear Nale say how he used to (I assume prior to his madness) use the law to rehabilitate. So I think we are introduced to a very negative view of the skybreakers, but over time through Szeth are going to see a very different reality as he progresses. I think it is to show us/teach us that just because you are a radiant, does not mean you are perfect/infallible. You are still a person, but you have greater powers and even greater responsibilities as result. How those powers are used, and what responsibilities you own up to is up to the person.

Thanks! (don't know how to quote in an existing post while editing it so double posted)

Another thought I had. Lirin does not have to use division against people. Releasers can "set fire" to even stone and things that do not burn. He could take down enemy siege weapons, or fortifications. Depending on the enemy and how division works, he could destroy the weapons the enemy is wielding. So he could do something similar to Lift at the battle of Thaylenah. Stymie the enemy without direct violence.

Actually Lift proves there is. You can dull the blade. As long as it doesn't penetrate the skin, it acts as a bludgeon. You can also make it be a hammer

This is incorrect regarding Lirin. I will need to pull up the quotes later from Oathbringer, but he explains to Kaladin that he recognizes the need for soldiers, but his problem is: 1. the alethi acting like killing will save lives is self defeating. You do not add life by ending life. 2. the act of killing scars a person. he wanted to spare kaladin that experience that he has seen on many soldiers. that does not mean he would not stand up and do so Oathbringer page 86 "What you've become" Lirin continued "is a killer. You solve problems with the fist and the sword. I had hoped that you would find a place among the army's surgeons." few paragraphs later "And you honestly think we shouldn't fight the Voidbringers, Father?" Lirin hesitated "No" he whispered "I know that war is inevitable. I just didn't want you to have to be a part of it. I've seen what it does to men. War flays their souls, and those are wounds I can't heal"

Soulcasting alone is a huge technological marvel if they can make it a fabrial that does not turn the person using it into that essence. You could produce all the plastic you want, and when it is thrown away, soulcast it to air or something organic for it to break down. On ships sailing through the stars soulcasters are basically star trek replicators.

Yep. The Oathpact isn't as dead as the Heralds think it is.

Jasnah confirmed to Shallan herself that being a Radiant does not mean you have to fight and kill. You could be a radiant and be a scholar dealing with administrative duties with no killing required. Words of Radiance page 68 "The orders of knights were a construct, just as all society is a construct, used by men to define and explain. Not every man who wields a spear is a soldier, and not every woman who makes bread is a baker. And yet weapons, or baking, become the hallmarks of certain professions." "So you're saying that what we can do..." "Was once the definition of what initiated one into the Knights Radiant" Jasnah said "But we're women!" "yes" Jasnah said lightly "Spren don't suffer from human society's prejudices. Refreshing wouldn't you say?" Shallan looked up from poking at the pattern spren "There were women among the Knights Radiant?" "A statistically appropriate number" Jasnah said "But don't fear that you will son find yourself swinging a sword, child. The archetype of Radiants on the battlefield is an exaggeration. From what I've read - though records are, unfortunately, untrustworthy - for every Radiant dedicated to battle, there were another three who spent their time on diplomacy, scholarship, or other ways to aid society."

Whatever was sustaining Jezereh's cognitive shadow got ripped out of him by Moash, so if a Herald dying "the true death" ends the Oathpact, then it already ended without Yelig-nar and Nale involved. I do not think the Oathpact ends till all of the heralds are truly dead, but that is more of a personal belief than anything concrete.

it is not confirmation of the location of the perpendicularity, which is what I admitted by stating it coincides with Calderis's statement. I could have sworn there was a WoB that explicitly states the location of the perpendicularity, but as I have had trouble locating it, till such a time that I locate it, I was saying the WoB I was probably thinking of was the one that stated where the investiture is sourced, which as Calderis said, does not necessarily mean it is the location of the perpendicularity. Thought my last post said that pretty clearly, but hopefully this further clarified things.

Not sure if this WoB adds anything, it is probably already known, but adding it just in case: Phantrosity If polestones glow in colors appropriate to their gem, what color does smokestone glow? Peter Ahlstrom Grey.

Which as I said, is a sign to me that he is obedient and brave. Please refer to my other examples. Scholars are not typically thought as combatants and soulcasting not typically thought as a weaponized surge yet Jasnah was in the thick of it. Wyndle was going to bond an elderly gardener who is the last person you think would go into combat, yet edgedancers have seen combat and get shardblades. Syl bonded an elderly man who died because he couldn't handle the combat. Windrunners can be afraid of heights which flies (ha pun) in the face of the entire order's schtick. So to me there is no reason that Lirin could not be a releaser just because he is a surgeon. Kaladin's surgery skills are pointless in the world of regrowth. Except that has come up on numerous occasions. Can't always count on a edgedancer or truthwatcher to be nearby. Malata can do fine burning enough to etch patterns in the wood. I do not think it is a stretch at all to cauterize a wound.