Pathfinder

In DID (I have been reading up since Brandon confirmed that is the direction he is taking Shallan), the original personality is not always the primary. It looks like Veil has become the primary. That does not mean as you posited that there could be a fourth original personality, and that up until recent, "Shallan" was the primary. Just primary and original are different things, so it could work in either situation (your theory, or not).

Just a thought I had, could people's upset at Lirin not so much be about his personal views, but how he chooses to enact them on Kaladin? I believe there is a way that Lirin could hold to his beliefs, express disappointment in losing his son to a path he feels ends in heartbreak, sorrow and death, but at the same time still be supportive and a shelter to Kaladin. That by Lirin not doing that, and instead continually force his views onto Kaladin, and treat the situation as an "us versus" them, (us being surgeons, them being soldiers) results in alienating Kaladin and makes him feel like an enemy to his own father when he already has far too much to deal with. I think that might be the real reason deep down people have reacted with such distaste towards Lirin's views. TLDR: Possibly the reason people take issue with Lirin is not so much his beliefs, but how he chooses to enforce those beliefs upon Kaladin

Hmmm, in which case my idea about the addition of abrasion could help a lot

Just thought it would be more effective to have a rotation of a single windrunner infusing a pebble in a secure location than having multiple having to constantly infuse the whole platform in person. But hey was just an idea throwing it out there. Thought that was the point of the thread. Throwing out ideas that could possibly improve it. I'll leave things be then. Good luck with your thread! The chulls could continue to move forward continually on a conveyor belt and thereby they wouldn't have to stop and turn around? Not really sure of any other way to explain that.

1. a conveyor belt could handle the necessity of disconnecting the horizontal movement to turn the chulls around. 2. Would require more stormlight usage, but theoretically couldn't the bridge be paired with something as small as a pebble, but by adding lashings to the pebble, it would be heavy enough to lift the platform? 3. Actually potentially employing both surges could handle the issue. Use gravitation to have a pebble hold up the entire platform. Then infuse the pebble with abrasion so it can be pushed across the floor easily. Just some thoughts

Semi Tinfoil theory: Everything is made up of investiture just in various stages. Solid, liquid, gas, investiture (as per Brandon). So when transporting, the individual is converted into investiture state of matter and travels through the spiritual realm. Once the destination is reached, investiture is converted back into physical form. Since fused cannot use investiture in the same extent as radiants (see windrunners being able to go faster and change directions sharper than fused), then the conversion is not complete leaving a "shell" behind, and is also why the jump is a short distance, limited to three jumps at a time, and a streak is visible. At least that is my thoughts at this stage.

Just some tidbits: 1. the knife was not part of the fused. Kaladin notices the fused break off a spur from its body. That is the knife it uses. Since it cannot take anything with it when it transports, and rebuilds the body each time, it breaks off the spur, attacks with it, transports resulting in the spur going away, breaks off spur again, stabs again. 2. Since the spur is no longer part of the fused body, Kaladin should be able to infuse it with gravitation. 3. Kaladin does not have to be touching an object with his hands to infuse it. As long as some part of his body is in contact, he can infuse it These reasons all leads me to believe the reason the fused repeatedly stabbed the neck was to prevent it from being lashed out of the neck, or the blade pushed out while heaing. In addition the continually fresh trauma could theoretically be disorientating. But people are totally entitled to think how they wish. That is just my own interpretation on it.

Real easy for elsecallers and lightweavers to take a peek into the cognitive realm. That and all the spren present and arriving at urithiru bonding knights up to the point that the honorspren refuse? To my knowledge a delegation is a group representing a larger group. Not sure how that isn't a delegation. (Typing on my phone so it is not my intention to sound curt or short. Just trying to work with what i got) Edit: additional comment that i took for granted but realized others might not think the same way. Spren in the cognitive realm dont need to eat or drink but have physical bodies that can carry backpacks full of supplies.

You have quite a few things that would make all of that a non issue so im confused why they were brought up 1. Jasnah traveled extensively through the cognitive realm and spoke with the highspren. She would know locations and trade routes. 2. Honorspren to bonded knights with increasing sapience due to oath advancement increases memory recall. I would think any of them could advise on the best path/trip through shadesmar to get to lasting integrity. What they cannot advise on however is the current climate with fused occupying cities. Which is why i suggested entering via an established and secure location that is urithiru 3. Shallan and co when they first ended up in the cognitive realm did not expect it so had not prepared supplies necessary. Dalinar can recharge spheres. They can enter with food, water, and currency (gems with stormlight) that will last them for longer than they need to reach each stage of the trip. The only question mark would be if the towns they intend to stop at are taken over by fused. Which a lightweaver with illusions could certainly help with that. The additional resources would cover if they couldn't make a stop at an occupied town. Finally it is a delegation, so it wouldn't be just shallan and adolin carrying everything by themselves. Also as you mentioned, shallan as a lightweaver can manifest resources with the proper beads that can also be brought with them. I didn't include this part in the list because i cannot recall for sure nor have a chance to pull it up to confirm, but doesn't stormlight not drain in the cognitive realm unless actively used/breathed in by a radiant? I could have sworn they said they were surprised that all the spheres hadn't gone dunn naturally.

Personally in this case i am an advocate of occams razor. We know jasnah can create a mini perp between the physical and the cognitive realm. We know as per WoB that it can bring more than themselves. We know as per WoB that it is easier to get into the cognitive realm than get out. Finally i dont see any reason why the envoy would transfer anywhere other than the secure location that is urithiru so as to not worry about being ambushed or not knowing what is on the other side waiting for them to transfer. Makes more sense to me to transfer in a secure location and then head over.

The locked thread by Chaos at the top of the rhythm of war page holds links to everything that is open to be read or heard.

Mistborn So i think that supports the connection i was making.

My intent was not to be patronizing. I figured you missed my most recent post where I added an comment. I literally said please and thank you. I thought I was being polite.

Please see the post I made just prior to yours. Thank you.

When the tower happened, and Kaladin went up to Dalinar's troops and ordered them around, they didn't say "We have no idea what is happening, but going to do what he says". They literally stopped and went "Hey. can you even do that?". Ultimately after commanding, they followed his lead, but even in battle, even with massive losses, they still stopped and questioned him. Questioned whether or not he had the authority to do so. With Jasnah, no one did. Now you are perfectly entitled to believe as you wish. Just as I am, and the information I have found leads me to believe Amaram is one of many generals as mentioned in flashbacks and the "present day". Amaram was to me max 4th dahn. more likely he was 5th. We know he had land which the lowest as per Brandon was 6th. We know the shardblade automatically brings you up to 4th. We know Amaram went from managing crem soldiers left back at home for border skirmishes to suddenly front and center in the shattered plains all because of said shardblade. If he was truly this wonderful 5 star general, then he would have been at the shattered plains all along. But he wasn't. It wasn't till attaining the shardblade he joined the "big leagues" and it wasn't till he got a shardblade that Adolin said he could ditch Sadeas. I think I presented my beliefs adequately and that the information stands on its own. i wish you luck with your beliefs. I see no reason to continue this line of dialogue with you. have a nice day! a little addition from the latest chapters. dunno if they should be spoilered in a thread for earlier chapters but here we go:

Then why did they follow her orders prior to the battle in the other situations i also referenced?

It was a general question to anyone who fell into the category i stated which was: Individuals that felt shallan was both a pov in part 1 (group 2) but also on the cover which would be part 5 (group 1 or 3). It wasn't specifically targeted at anyone in particular. My reason for responding to you is based on what i read from your response, you took my question as me trying to prove that shallan and adolin are not together, regardless which group they find themselves in. That me mentioning those seeming two pieces of contrary information was my way of saying they cannot be together. Which as i said was never my intention. Hope that helps! I have quoted myself. Hopefully seeing the post again will help. I tried to add it via edit but my phone wont let me paste it in.

Radiants are only considered via rank in regards to their shardblade. Owning a shardblade only gets you to the fourth dahn. As per the conversation with dalinar and kaladin. As per the earlier WoB, jasnah is already of a higher dahn. So her being a radiant would not play into people following her orders. Her thinking of regarding the retreat was contrary to what she believed dalinar would think. If they outranked her, they wouldn't follow her orders. Which she fully expects them to do

I don't think so. The fused that Venli followed who was eventually revealed to be Turash was one of the hulking fused whose carapace looked like shardplate.

I think the reason might be simpler. I think it has to do with the nature of the fabrial, not anything to do with the voidlight. Remember there was a detecting fabrial that would alert you if people were coming from a distance in a radius. You could set it to exclude the people in the immediate area otherwise it would continually go off. Further in that case, everyone was "human" yet there was a way to set it to exclude specific individuals and include others. So I think its just a setting that can be done to fabrials normally. Just this one happens to be powered by voidlight, and its purpose is to act like a also got to do some digging later, but I feel like I have a vague recollection of a WoB regarding:

She decided where to deploy troops in preparation for Odium's attack prior to the battle of Thaylenah. When things began going pear shaped, she planned to issue orders for the retreat from Thaylenah. Later when team honor was fighting back, she organized team honor's forces and how to fortify again issuing orders that were obeyed without question. Further Gavilar before he was king, was a backwater brightlord that was not anywhere near next in line to become a highprince, prior to taking over and he was of the 4th dahn. Much like Amaram. edit: in response about Sadeas leaving a nobody in charge. Sadeas as well as Dalinar, and all the other highprinces have multiple generals. Think in terms of the US. There are 1 star, 2 star, 3 star, 4 star, and 5 star generals. Amaram was not in charge of the entire princedom while Sadeas was gone. He was in charge of a specific hunk of territory owned by Sadeas.

At the end of the day to each their own, but I did a (admittedly brief) scan of every instance regarding Amaram, and the word general. Highprinces have referred to themselves as generals. Men they command have been referred to as generals. People leading armies back and home that are considered the dregs not worth it at the shattered plains are called generals. So although I respect you believe differently, i personally maintain that Jasnah and Amaram were not of the same rank. Jasnah has given commands to generals that were under Dalinar, and they obeyed them without question. In the WoB, general was with a question mark, indicating to me the writer was uncertain of its place. Then there is the fact that Adolin states that now that Amaram is a shardbearer he is of rank that can choose a new liege. Getting shards is also what brought Amaram to the shattered plains. If the shards did nothing to his standing, then for me it is odd that Amaram was stuck back at home away from "all the real fighters" at the shattered plains till he got the shards. But I will keep digging to see if there is anything further that could be more clear cut in one direction or the other.

Brightlord is a generic honorific for lighteyes. Dalinar as a highprince is referred to as brightlord and he is higher than Amaram prior to Amaram taking over the Sadeas princedom. Brightlord, brightlady. Kind of like saying nobleman and noblewoman. For instance Lin Davar is a backwater nobleman, yet he is also referred to as brightlord and I think it is safe to say Lin Davar and Dalinar are not at the same level.

Based on the WoB below Amaram (at the time of the prologue), was of the 4th, or 5th dahn. Remember it wasn't till "recent" that Amaram earned a sharblade and plate to travel to the shattered plains. The territory Amaram defended was owned by Sadeas. If you refer to the flashbacks of Kaladin, Amaram is referred to as a brightlord. In the "present day" as Kaladin travels to the Shattered Plains, Amaram is referred to as "Highlord". So as of the time Gavilar was trying to set up Amaram and Jasnah, Amaram was not 3rd dahn. Shagomir Here's the best I can do at what each of the dahns includes, without spoilers. Stuff in italics is unconfirmed but is reasonable to guess based on the information we have from the books and Brandon. 1st Dahn: The King and the King's direct heir. 2nd Dahn: Highprinces, their direct heirs, and the King's direct heir*. 3rd Dahn: Generals?, Highlords, and the non-inheriting children of 1st and 2nd dahn lighteyes. 4th Dahn: Battalionlords, Citylords, Shardbearers, and other mid-ranked nobles. 5th Dahn: Companylords?, along with lower-ranked nobles. 6th Dahn: Captainlords, along with the lowest-ranked nobles and landholders? 7th Dahn: Lower-ranking landless officers, along with higher-ranking (or very wealthy) landless lighteyes? 8th Dahn: Soldiers, along with high-ranking (or moderately wealthy) landless lighteyes? 9th Dahn: Landless lighteyes with some wealth, like merchants and master craftsmen. 10th Dahn: "Tenners", essentially any lighteyes who has to work for a living. Brandon Sanderson I'm very impressed by this list. You did a great job. Note that only the king is first Dahn under the Alethi system, however. His heir is second, until crowned. Sixth Dahn, as you've identified, is the "landed" cutoff--if you have land, even a little, you're at least Sixth Dahn. If you were of a specific dahn (say, seventh) but were elevated by something unusual (say, you got appointed to an appointment that would raise you above this) your children will often be elevated to a rank just beneath you. So, for instance, if a tenner got a shard, he'd immediately be elevated to fourth, and his family would likely be elevated to fifth. The only thing I'd offer a warning on is that sometimes, people shortcut "Captainlord" to just "Captain" which drives Peter crazy, and so it can be hard to pick out rank from title. Oudeis16 That's interesting... so, is the dahn system new since Alethkar was unified? Or was it modified once they got a king? Or was it always this way, and there just used to not be someone at the 1st Dahn? Brandon Sanderson Kings existed in other places, and had existed in Alethkar before. (Dahn is a Vorin cultural ideal, not just Alethi.) So the system is not new, but for many years, the Alethi refused to accept a king. (Following the division of the kingdom among the Sunmaker's sons.) Oudeis16 Oooooooh... fascinating. So, this implies that before Gavilar unified Alethkar, King Taravangian and the King of Jah Keved would both have been First Dahn, while the highest-ranked ten people in Alethkar were only Second Dahn. Interesting. In the interests of adding a few more names to the list of "known people of the First Dahn" on the Coppermind, would you be willing to confirm if King Taravangian (let's say at the start of the Way of Kings to avoid spoilers) was First Dahn? Brandon Sanderson Traditionally, the monarchs of city-states (like Kharbranth, Bavland, and at some points Silnasen) do not claim the first dahn. There have been leaders of New Natanan who have, same with Herdaz. Depends on how much they want to aggravate the Alethi. Unification era, there'd be two people of the first dahn: The queen of Thaylenah and the king of Jah Keved. Non-vorin monarchs in the west would be treated like first dahn, sometimes, depending on the situation. Oudeis16 Did we know that Thaylenah is currently ruled by a Queen, or is this a small tidbit you have just given us? Brandon Sanderson I'm not sure if I've mentioned it or not, honestly. Queen Fen. You'll get to meet her soon. Note that Thaylenah is kind of a plutocracy, with merchant councils holding a lot of power, which changes its dynamic a little when compared to Alethi or Jah Keved. Shagomir I see you may have sneakily included an explanation for the 4th/5th dahn thing I noticed in a certain father-daughter duo. I promise not to read too much into it.... Brandon Sanderson Note that getting a Shardblade isn't the only reason someone could be elevated, and isn't the only reason why children might not be the same dahn as their parent. Most of it has to do with titles, and who inherits, and that sort of thing. The answer is probably more boring than you're hoping. xland44 Not sure if this is entering RAFO territory, but are highprince candidates (that is, people who can be elevated to highprince status if the post is empty) only people from the 3rd dahn? Or can a 4th dahn also be elevated to highprince, for example? Brandon Sanderson Highprince is a tricky one, as the definition of "highprince" is a person who can convince others to call him by the title. I guess that's the same for all of them, but as highprinces tend to be near the top of the pecking order, it's more about military than anything else. Gavilar was 4th dahn before becoming highprince, for example. His branch of the Kholin family wasn't considered a prime contender for the highprince throne--until he took it for himself. Enasor His branch of the Kholin family? Does this imply there are other branches of the Kholin family? Meaning, there are other Kholins elsewhere? Brandon Sanderson Well, not as many as there once were... uchoo786 So if I'm understanding this correctly, before Gavilar's branch of the Kholin family started their conquest of Alethkar they conquered Kholinar? Brandon Sanderson Yup. (There's some minor mention of this in Book Three, I believe.) General Reddit 2017 (Aug. 9, 2017)

So I had a thought, though this has to do with Mistborn spoilers which is why most of my response will be spoilered: