Mid-Range Game 54: Fading Glory

[Araris Valerian he/him]

1 hour ago, SeaDragonet said:

I am a little confused of who to vote for. I will probably not vote and mostly just participate without voting and watch what people do this game. I have no idea how ppl generally play as village vs how they play as elim. Is there a good sample game I could look at to get better at this?

Some fun games to read would be AG1 and AG2 (AG stands for anniversary game). Those should give a decent idea of the meta, and have some solid RP as well. Other people probably have different suggestions.

Edited November 9, 2021 by Araris Valerian

[The Unknown Ajah he/him]

1 hour ago, Araris Valerian said:

If you very strongly believe that most/all of the elims voted last cycle, then you should probably vote for one of said people. Pick me if you want .

I believe that (assuming three elims) two out of the elims voted.

I'm mostly questioning why you are going after me (I understand Venture). I was contributing to the discussion unlike Seadragonet, who gets a pass for being new, Taken, also kind of new but definitely an option, Devo, who isn't even a returning player, just an older one, and Steel, who does this no matter what.

That leaves Ed, fairly active and new, but suspicious, Taken, slight pass, and Devo, who doesn't really have any good reason for not being killed. And Tani, but they haven't done anything AI. Why am I an option over Tani? 

[Araris Valerian he/him]

28 minutes ago, The Unknown Order said:

Why am I an option over Tani? 

Only because TJ is currently voting for you. Like I said earlier, I’d prefer to kill off the low actives with actions rather than votes. But there are literally 2 votes right now, so in the interests of avoiding potential vote manip, I’d kill you as an alternative to Venture.

[Quivil she/her]

@Matrim's Dice What happens to the things that belonged to the dead people?

[Mat he/him]

10 minutes ago, Tani said:

@Matrim's Dice What happens to the things that belonged to the dead people?

They die along with whoever holds them  

[Mage he/him]

I’m surprised Danex turned vil. Even reading back knowing that they were innocent I suspect them. Bad vibes from last time probably. @The Unknown Order I apologize for suspecting you. Looking back you aren’t suspicious (watch as they turn out Elim).

I think I’ll go Venture they seem a little suspicious. We need to keep an eye out on Araris though. They are pushing really hard for a Venture exe and I can’t help but feel manipulated.

[Quivil she/her]

Is it better to keep scepters til late or to use them early?

[Steeldancer he/him]

6 hours ago, The Unknown Order said:

I believe that (assuming three elims) two out of the elims voted.

I'm mostly questioning why you are going after me (I understand Venture). I was contributing to the discussion unlike Seadragonet, who gets a pass for being new, Taken, also kind of new but definitely an option, Devo, who isn't even a returning player, just an older one, and Steel, who does this no matter what.

That leaves Ed, fairly active and new, but suspicious, Taken, slight pass, and Devo, who doesn't really have any good reason for not being killed. And Tani, but they haven't done anything AI. Why am I an option over Tani? 

Are you saying I never contribute to discussion? 

Because sadly... You're right. I've been a lot less vigorous ever since I returned from my mission. 

Also tani, I would say use it when you feel like using it. However by asking the question you're gonna draw unwanted attention on yourself, whether you actually have a scepter or not. 

These are my thoughts so far:

 Araris is being typical araris. Nothing new there. Araris being araris is NAI, imo. But at the very least it's not unduly suspicious. 

And... That's pretty much it for now. Orlok Im always wary of just because of how brilliant he is, but given that he hasn't joined a game in so long I see literally no reason to attack him just for that. The new players are well... New so I'm not going to get a good read on them yet. 

If I don't vote now it's kind of doubtful I'll have time to vote tomorrow, so I'll go ahead and vote TJ in the interest of gathering some information. 

[Devotary of Spontaneity]

6 hours ago, The Unknown Order said:

I believe that (assuming three elims) two out of the elims voted.

Any particular reason you think they did that but then didn't have their Arbiter remove a vote? The elims would be more likely to vote if Venture is evil, and without that they may have decided not to bother. I'm definitely feeling worse about Venture than I did yesterday, but am not confident at this time.

3 hours ago, Tani said:

Is it better to keep scepters til late or to use them early?

The later the scepters are left the more likely it is that the holders would die with them like what happened to Ash. I'm assuming he was the only Rememberer since multiple would make this game very swingy. If so and Rememberer free art passing still goes last, only the Emperor and the Arbiters could have scepters for the rest of the game.

[+Ed Venture]

Sha Lou looked around as people started shouting at her, clamouring for why she was so interested in the body, why she had pushed to kill a completely innocent ball of fuzz with a blue top hat on it. Mebbe she could still pull this off though, yeah? Mebbe. That's why she kept scribbling away, writing down a few last ideas.

---

M'kay so here's where I stand. Suspiciously. Kiiiinda sucks. But maybe I can share a few ideas.

First of all. TJ. Why are you defending me? The evidence you used supports the claim that I am not village, but even assuming that is a small error, I am likely the top three most suspicious people. My big issue with TJ comes down to the fact that it was their vote, 30~ minutes after mine, saying that they didn't see my vote, that lead to the lynch of Dannex. Dannex who flipped Village. It was TJ's vote that broke the balance. Plus why do you not feel good about TUO, I'd like to be moving past gut votes at this point of the game, so I'd rather you have somewhat of a reason

Next, Araris. Again, I don't see any basis for the TUO lynch? *thinking noises*

Okay really, I see a lot of people voting for TUO, but they haven't...done anything? It's a much more reasonable lynch for purposes of evidence gathering, at least, because they have been talking quite a bit. So I'm also wondering with a TJ or a TUO lynch, just wondering what other people's reasons are. I'll be back before cutoff to take a look at this all a few more times, see where my vote swings

Finally, here's a...

Vote count:

• |TJ| (2): Venture, Steel
• TUO (1): |TJ|
• Ed Venture (2): Mage, Devo

Edited November 10, 2021 by Ed Venture

[Araris Valerian he/him]

2 hours ago, Ed Venture said:

Next, Araris. Again, I don't see any basis for the TUO lynch? *thinking noises*

So, like I said earlier, I don’t really have a reason, except that he already has a vote. If you watch my playstyle, I often follow single votes in order to create more pressure on someone. But also, at this point TUO has stated to believe he knows with decent precision where 2 of the elims are, and still hasn’t even stated which of those 6 players he finds most suspicious. I’m also going to mention that the Soul Forger doesn’t need to control the thread this game and thus can lie low and not vote. Which brings me back to the whole kill off people who aren’t voting thing.
 

2 hours ago, Ed Venture said:

My big issue with TJ comes down to the fact that it was their vote, 30~ minutes after mine, saying that they didn't see my vote, that lead to the lynch of Dannex. Dannex who flipped Village. It was TJ's vote that broke the balance.

Um, this is only suspicious if the alternative, you, was/is an eliminator. Also, since the elims have a vote manipulation role, they didn’t need TJ’s vote to break the tie.

[|TJ| he/him]

19 hours ago, SeaDragonet said:

I will probably not vote and mostly just participate without voting and watch what people do this game.

This statement is probably from a village mindset because I can't see an elim team recommend a new elim player to say this because now they're trapped and cannot vote in the future to save their teammate and if they do, it will likely be perceived as such and they'll be sussed. 

4 hours ago, Ed Venture said:

First of all. TJ. Why are you defending me? The evidence you used supports the claim that I am not village

Huh, not sure what you misunderstood from this because - 

Quote

I think elims were last cycle's vote quite comfortable with last cycle's vote because a. vote did not diversify much b. no effort was made to push Danex farther from Venture and c. the lack of vote cancel from elim HA because all it would have taken was the vote shift to get Venture killed. 

Here's my clear thought process, if you are an elim then when you became an option, your teammates would have either - tried to open up new vote options or tried to pile on to Dannex keeping the vote away from you. Since, either of those did not happen, it's not likely you are elim. Third point is you are 3-2 with Dannex, so if you are an elim, all it would have taken was one vote shift to make it 3-2 towards you and elims would have tried to cancelled a vote on you to negate that possibility. So how is it that all these stuff points towards evil!you? Misregarding the fact that an elim is questioning why I'm defending him, because you look like you're going to get eliminated and me defending an elim would just make me look bad for the next cycle, so an elim go along with it rather than question it? Though all this assumes ideal elim and elim team behavior it was enough for me not to vote for you this cycle. 

4 hours ago, Ed Venture said:

My big issue with TJ comes down to the fact that it was their vote, 30~ minutes after mine, saying that they didn't see my vote,

I gave proof here that I genuinely did not see posts from page 2 : 

Quote

For further proof, I spoke about Orlok ignoring village vote manipulation which was brought up by TUO and replied to by Orlok in page 2, so there wouldn't have been any need for me to bring up an issue already closed. Also, all my quotes from the post would only be from page 1.

Not sure what more could I do to prove that I did not see them. I reached the end of the page, failed to notice the [2] next to the [1] and started typing up my thoughts.

4 hours ago, Ed Venture said:

Plus why do you not feel good about TUO, I'd like to be moving past gut votes at this point of the game, so I'd rather you have somewhat of a reason

I mentioned my suspicion here - 

On 11/9/2021 at 10:09 PM, |TJ| said:

Active and felt comfortable not to vote, stuff from C1 I was willing to overlook for C1 and seeking confirmation about existence of suspicion. 

Also, not feeling good about Steel's vote tbh. He feels similar to that game in which he was replaced Connie. Prior to that, I believed he was better at elim game to play dormant, but in that game he played the less-active elim game well. Would be willing to go here too. 

Edited November 10, 2021 by |TJ|

[SeaDragonet he/him]

1 hour ago, |TJ| said:

This statement is probably from a village mindset because I can't see an elim team recommend a new elim player to say this because now they're trapped and cannot vote in the future to save their teammate and if they do, it will likely be perceived as such and they'll be sussed. 

What is this about?? Several people have pmed me recommending I vote(like Araris who has pmed a lot of good advice, tysm), but I do not see how it hurts to not vote. Is it just that if you do not vote, you get sussed? I have no clue who to vote for, and I am worried my vote will just mess things up. Should I vote, even if I do not have the best idea of who to vote for?

Edit: and now I am also worried that I will mess things up by not voting. Is there something that I am missing, like "if there is below x votes no one gets voted out" or smth?

Edited November 10, 2021 by SeaDragonet
to add in another bit so that i do not double post and later to clarify

[Araris Valerian he/him]

50 minutes ago, SeaDragonet said:

What is this about?? Several people have pmed me recommending I vote(like Araris who has pmed a lot of good advice, tysm), but I do not see how it hurts to not vote. Is it just that if you do not vote, you get sussed? I have no clue who to vote for, and I am worried my vote will just mess things up. Should I vote, even if I do not have the best idea of who to vote for?

So, basically, your vote cannot mess things up at this stage of the game. The way the village wins, generally, is by analyzing things players have said to try and figure out who is elim versus village. Well, what is the difference between those two? The elims have friends they want to not die. Villagers don't (in most cases). If you are village then you should be fine with almost anyone else getting killed off. But the only way we can suss out this difference is by putting real pressure of getting killed on folks. Elims can't win if they just sit by and let their teammates get killed. And our votes are the tool we use to create that pressure. Not voting can be fine if you have a strategic reason for it. But not voting consistently means the elims can say whatever they want, and none of it needs to be serious because they aren't worried about dying.

[|TJ| he/him]

Yeah, was about to type a response but basically what Araris said + we will need you to vote at least later in the game if you're village because if villagers not voting basically means elims get the thread control and majority vote earlier and their won becomes inevitable.

I'm going to sleep so I want to vote in self preservation here and it looks like there's no other alternative to Venture at this point. 90% sure of villager is still not as good as 100% self-certainty. 

Ed Venture

[+Ed Venture]

TJ. Whelp. My, "Vote for TJ and then remove vote, thereby not causing too many issues" plan has kinda fallen through. I am decidedly not going to make a tie easier for self preservation, and so make it harder for an Elim team to frame me.

Neeeext, because I still want a vote on TUO, that is what I will do as Arais so eloquently said, Voting is important. You're not going to get much information out of my lynch as of now, so I am going to...write up some reads and some thoughts. TUO has talked enough that we should be able to get some opinions out of them if they are put up for vote/lynched, so that should lead us to something good. Either them or TJ, but I'm getting a much more village read of both TJ and Araris. Slight Elim of Tani? Something's weird about Devo, neutral, but not for long. I'm excited to see Seadragon play a little bit more, get better reads, but for now, neutral. Slight Elim on..Mage, to be honest. I'd vote for Mage next cycle, Mage or TJ or TUO.

Thereby, current Vote count is as follows.

Vote count:

• |TJ| (1): Steel
• TUO (1): Venture
• Ed Venture (3): Mage, Devo, |TJ|

*small shrug in rusty after over a year* Cycle ends in...abouuuuut one hour. So I'll stay on if anyone has any questions they want to ask, if I have any last thoughts, or any last minute votes come flying in.

[Quivil she/her]

Devo, it'd be nice to hear more from you.

[Mat he/him]

An hour remains in the cycle. Don't forget to vote and submit an action!

Vote Count:

• Ed Venture (4): Araris Valerian, Mage, Devotary of Spontaneity, |TJ|
• |TJ| (1): Steeldancer
• The Unknown Order (1): Ed Venture
• Devotary of Spontaneity (1): Tani

[SeaDragonet he/him]

1 hour ago, Araris Valerian said:

So, basically, your vote cannot mess things up at this stage of the game. The way the village wins, generally, is by analyzing things players have said to try and figure out who is elim versus village. Well, what is the difference between those two? The elims have friends they want to not die. Villagers don't (in most cases). If you are village then you should be fine with almost anyone else getting killed off. But the only way we can suss out this difference is by putting real pressure of getting killed on folks. Elims can't win if they just sit by and let their teammates get killed. And our votes are the tool we use to create that pressure. Not voting can be fine if you have a strategic reason for it. But not voting consistently means the elims can say whatever they want, and none of it needs to be serious because they aren't worried about dying.

I see, so Ed Venture. Seems like other people are doing it, and they have good reasons.

Edited November 10, 2021 by SeaDragonet

[+Ed Venture]

2 minutes ago, SeaDragonet said:

I see, so Ed Venture.

The reason voting is important is the rationale. So...your rationale?

[SeaDragonet he/him]

5 minutes ago, Ed Venture said:

The reason voting is important is the rationale. So...your rationale?

Because I need to vote somebody according to Araris, and other ppl think you are the most sus person. I do not agree, I think that Devo is more likely, but I am new and so I do not want to mess anything up. I really should have spectated a game.

edit: I am really afraid of messing up this game. I do not want my newbiness to this group to mess things up.

edit 2: maybe my fear of messing things up is not warrented, but that does not get rid of it.

Edited November 10, 2021 by SeaDragonet

[+Ed Venture]

2 minutes ago, SeaDragonet said:

Because I need to vote somebody according to Araris, and other ppl think you are the most sus person. I do not agree, I think that Devo is more likely, but I am new and so I do not want to mess anything up. I really should have spectated a game.

Right, so, if you are sus of Devo, then voting for Devo is a good idea. As Araris said in the very post you quoted, you cannot mess things up. It's okay to vote for who everyone else is voting for, but that is known as Bandwagoning, which means that you are voting based on others votes, letting votes pile up on one person without too much personal reason, which, if I am remembering correctly, is a tool of the Elim team for getting people out.

I'm sure Araris will say this all much more nicely than I am.  We'll see..

[Araris Valerian he/him]

6 minutes ago, SeaDragonet said:

Because I need to vote somebody according to Araris, and other ppl think you are the most sus person. I do not agree, I think that Devo is more likely, but I am new and so I do not want to mess anything up. I really should have spectated a game.

Just vote Devotary then. Having multiple competing options is better than a single bandwagon. Or leave your vote. Part of the reason voting helps is because it is you making the decision for yourself (or with the help of your murderous teammates). Like I said before, your vote cannot mess anything up.

Edit: ‘d by Venture .

I guess I should add that villagers tend to bandwagon because they are confused. Elims, who can’t be confused, can hide their votes in a bandwagon to give the appearance of participating. Not all elim players will take advantage of that, but it is a potential risk to be aware of.

Edited November 10, 2021 by Araris Valerian

[Devotary of Spontaneity]

24 minutes ago, Tani said:

t'd be nice to hear more from you.

I've said most of my actual thoughts. I do agree with TJ about finding Steeldancer suspicious, but also I'm thinking that if Steel is evil there's a decentd  chance Venture also is given that Steel brushed off the lack of vote manipulation. I won't change my vote at this time unless there's support for killing Steel this turn, especially since I won't be around after this post.

[The Unknown Ajah he/him]

I don't really want to vote Venture cause they're new. My biggest suspicion is Devo and I think that lynch could easily go through. I will vote for Venture for consolidation if Devo isn't up for the exe, since I still find him sus, just less so.