Mid-Range Game 49: Lode of Luthadel

[Biplet she/her]

1 minute ago, StrikerEZ said:

Also, @Biplet I know you are sitting right next to me, but you definitely don't need to worry about taking notes at all. I hardly ever do.

You've given away our secret! Now everyone knows we text each other while sitting next to each other!

[Quintessential she/her]

Just now, StrikerEZ said:

......

Don't worry, we're trying not to exe you so early this game!  but, I mean, that's only because the elims are probably gonna NK you anyway

[Illwei]

Also I sometimes take notes, usually tracking the votes...sometimes other things. Sometimes a lot if I want to do that. Mostly just I'll take different notes depending on what's happening in the game or what I'm feeling like :P.

2 minutes ago, Quintessential said:

but, I mean, that's only because the elims are probably gonna NK you anyway

So then why not leave Archer for the Elims to NK

Edited March 20, 2021 by Illwei

[StrikerEZ he/him]

3 minutes ago, Illwei said:

Alas, I'm at a lowly 7. Most of it is talking though. Well. Depending on your definition of talking. :P.

7 messages or 7 pages?

1 minute ago, Biplet said:

You've given away our secret! Now everyone knows we text each other while sitting next to each other!

 

They don't know that for sure.

1 minute ago, Quintessential said:

Don't worry, we're trying not to exe you so early this game!  but, I mean, that's only because the elims are probably gonna NK you anyway

*cries in yet another early death probably*

[Archer he/him]

1 minute ago, Illwei said:

I don't have a notes doc, I have my GMPM

not sorry TJ

Glad I'm not the only one who does that. 

I agree with Ashbringer that info-kills are better than shots in the dark. I do not like being the only informative kill in town, so I support keeping the thread active and widening our pool of suspects by asking as many people as possible to state their opinions and contribute their ideas. There’s two elim mistborn that the eliminators will be anxious to defend from execution; our path to victory lies in making the eliminators nervous or over-eager to mis-exe a villager. So kudos to everyone who is contributing. Keep it up.

I’d been trying to stay optimistic, but realistically, the elims aren’t going to miss an NK. It would take all three of them picking each other for that to happen, which is unlikely. So I’m going to say something I’d been holding back on. My assumption going in was that the elims would pick the most villager people to exe. They would signal to each other who to target not by voting for them, which indicates they wish to remove them via execution, but simply by village reading them. If they put out the idea that an individual is villagey, that person becomes a prime target. So I was surprised when people suggested votes were signals. (Note: our way of countering this is of course to lurcher protect our most villagey people. Forcing low info elim kills is better than only having inactives left at the end of the game.)

In theory, we should be getting big wagons because we have a large elim team. Alas, when you pressure people to vote, sometimes they engage in groupthink. I'd like to discuss more elim candidates but I've hit a wall. This game is hard.

Something’s pinging me about Mat defending Gears pre-emptively, and generally defending a lot of people while generally having a small suspicion pool.  

@Flyingbooks, did you ask TJ about the use of secret text in this game?

Striker, just to confirm, you’re not Vin, right? If you are, you’re contributing to my exe, which given that I’m a villager, is bad form. Just putting that out there in case you change your story next round.

Also, I thought of a great way to get Striker NKed alongside me by posting something near rollover about me being an elim and asking for them to be killed, but frankly, I don't want to be responsible for their early death if it turns out I'm really on their team. It'd make for an awkward dead doc. 

[Illwei]

Just now, StrikerEZ said:

7 messages or 7 pages?

7 pages ofc! who do you think I am!

I know I know, It's so low. I'm usually up a lot higher by now, but him being the GM does kill conversation sometimes when I start asking him to tell me all the secrets, you know? :P.

[+Whysper she/her]

7 minutes ago, Quintessential said:

Guyyyssss when looking at votes and thinking about voting, remember that the elims don't know each other's identities, and that there are two different teams : P

I think this is key to remember. The Elim dynamics are so different in this game.

1. There are two teams, so half the Elims definitely don't know each other and are actually against each other.

2. On the same Elim team, they only know their Mistborn, and the Mistborn doesn't know anyone.

3. The Elims don't share a doc, so they can't coordinate. Their only pseudo-coordination is to try to guess what their Mistborn wants from them.

Additionally, it's kind of going too far to think the Elims specifically wanted either Archer or Striker dead for a strong mech reason. There wasn't even a chance for a scan or anything, so they have no idea on the roles for anyone. The only thing they might go off of would be if the players hinted at their role. If those players were specifically targeted instead of randomly, it would be for a reason like them guessing that their Mistborn wanted the player dead. Or to get a player off their Mistborn. Or that they just thought the player was a threat in general.

[Illwei]

2 minutes ago, Archer said:

Also, I thought of a great way to get Striker NKed alongside me by posting something near rollover about me being an elim and asking for them to be killed, but frankly, I don't want to be responsible for their early death if it turns out I'm really on their team. It'd make for an awkward dead doc. 

uh, is this blatantly claiming Elim???

Edited March 20, 2021 by Illwei

[Ashbringer he/him]

Gears is here, so Archer it is.

2 hours ago, Illwei said:

my...do you mean my outright defence of Archer?

Uh... yeah, that one. More specifically you pushing the probability idea, which both Archer and Striker seemed to agree on, which is another reason I think both of them being Elimistborn is actually fairly likely.

24 minutes ago, Liranil said:

Why does Elim!Mistborn!Archer link to me and TUO?

I am not a big fan of how 3 people jumped onto voting Gears just because... he wasn't talking? I mean I get poke votes but that felt more like an attempt at a don't-exe-Archer countertrain. For that reason, Experience Archer.

You because, for better or worse, you didn't vote them last cycle. Not a strong tie, but something I'm keeping in mind. Plus your reaction to me asking felt... not bad, but not good? You didn't take the easy ways out of "I didn't see in time" or "I didn't want to change the exe so late", but it didn't feel much better. 

TUO for mainly the opposite reason, they voted Archer for a very small reason that I'm still quite confused about. Could be signaling.

And... it kind of was a countertrain? People still seem conflicted (Illwei) that we're exeing a probable kill target, and Gears isn't usually this quiet. But I think exeing Archer's the right call here. Insurance against Lurchers or mercurial Eliminators.

 

*Wonders if everyone "forgetting" the main mechanic of the game is Elims lying about themselves or just an SE-wide amnesia*

 

I also avoid using a notes system, which gives me more time to RP/post with a slight side effect of being completely wrong  GM PM can be fun though. And works as notes, if you can be consice.

1 minute ago, Illwei said:

3 minutes ago, Archer said:

Also, I thought of a great way to get Striker NKed alongside me by posting something near rollover about me being an elim and asking for them to be killed, but frankly, I don't want to be responsible for their early death if it turns out I'm really on their team. It'd make for an awkward dead doc. 

uh, this is blatantly claiming Elim???

I think he means "their team" as the Village team. But I also... nope, not saying that.

 

I've nearly been ninja'd a full page writing this it's the Discord Gold Rush all over again

[Illwei]

Also wait I forgot, I had Mat as a trust because he referenced the Elims knowing two of their teammates after he supposedly missed the clarification that they only know one.

[Quintessential she/her]

7 minutes ago, Archer said:

Something’s pinging me about Mat defending Gears pre-emptively, and generally defending a lot of people while generally having a small suspicion pool.  

I... shoot, now that you mention it, I had a note on Mat for other reasons--he shifted his criticism of me (when I was arguing with Illwei) really quickly, and the votes on Archer picked up right after Mat voted for him... the second one is tinfoil, but the first was tone and... 

great now I want to vote Matrim instead of Archer. At the end of the day, Archer will probably end up NKd eventually even if we don't exe him--and like I said when I voted him, my primary reason for doing so was I didn't really see a reason to vote anyone else : P

Edit: @Illwei I believe you've said in the past that elims sometimes feign ignorance about things that elims would definitely know, for precisely this reaction. : P

Edited March 20, 2021 by Quintessential

[Illwei]

3 minutes ago, Illwei said:

Also wait I forgot, I had Mat as a trust because he referenced the Elims knowing two of their teammates after he supposedly missed the clarification that they only know one.

And I had suspicion on Quinn for asking that question in the first place, because I never would have thought of it

of course I also don't fully read the rules and honestly still don't know why losing the Terris was so bad? so.... :P.

Edited March 20, 2021 by Illwei

[StrikerEZ he/him]

6 minutes ago, Archer said:

Also, I thought of a great way to get Striker NKed alongside me by posting something near rollover about me being an elim and asking for them to be killed, but frankly, I don't want to be responsible for their early death if it turns out I'm really on their team. It'd make for an awkward dead doc. 

So....elim!mistborn!Archer, anyone?

[Illwei]

3 minutes ago, Quintessential said:

Edit: @Illwei I believe you've said in the past that elims sometimes feign ignorance about things that elims would definitely know, for precisely this reaction. : P

Yeah but see newer post. Yeah he could be faking it but if I was an Elim I'd want to not do that, and to try and let someone else know that I know that I only know one teammate or something. I'd want to be able to talk about only knowing one teammate, like you did. idk.

[+Whysper she/her]

1 minute ago, Illwei said:

of course I also don't fully read the rules and honestly still don't know why losing the Terris was so bad? so.... :P.

The Terris would have given us random info on players. So we might have gotten something lucky.

[Biplet she/her]

3 minutes ago, Illwei said:

  4 minutes ago, Quintessential said:

Edit: @Illwei I believe you've said in the past that elims sometimes feign ignorance about things that elims would definitely know, for precisely this reaction. : P

Wait where did this come from I can't find this post

EDIT: nvm shard was just being big dumb

Edited March 20, 2021 by Biplet

[Illwei]

Just now, Biplet said:

Wait where did this come from I can't find this post

I assume she means in the past and past games but I can't remember?

EDIT:

nvm you mean the post >>

Edited March 20, 2021 by Illwei

[+Whysper she/her]

2 minutes ago, Illwei said:

Yeah but see newer post. Yeah he could be faking it but if I was an Elim I'd want to not do that, and to try and let someone else know that I know that I only know one teammate or something. I'd want to be able to talk about only knowing one teammate, like you did. idk.

Yeah, but anyone who has read the info would know that too, so that wouldn't help any.   If there is any faking done, it's more likely pretending to not know info so people clear you.

[Quintessential she/her]

5 minutes ago, Illwei said:

Yeah but see newer post. Yeah he could be faking it but if I was an Elim I'd want to not do that, and to try and let someone else know that I know that I only know one teammate or something. I'd want to be able to talk about only knowing one teammate, like you did. idk.

...I'm confused? Mat assumed, or seemed to assume, that the elims would know two teammates, the Mistborn and one other. That could be either an accidental village slip or an intentional "village" slip, easily one or the other. 

I didn't talk about only knowing one teammate until I'd gotten that clarification one way or the other. Which, btw, if I hadn't asked that I'm pretty sure you guys would still be assuming the elims know teammates other than the Mistborn, which could lead to... all sorts of crazy conclusions. So... you're welcome? idk, but seriously the answer to that question was important to know so I don't see why you're sussing me for it. (no, I'm not saying you should vil-read me for it either--but it definitely doesn't deserve suspicion? at least I wouldn't be sus of someone else who'd asked that, (edit: specifically for asking it I mean). idk)

Edited March 20, 2021 by Quintessential

[Illwei]

Just now, Quintessential said:

at least I wouldn't be sus of someone else who'd asked that.

Well I am. it's not a lot though, because it was clarified in the rules, and I'm just not smart enough to notice it :P. It's like a much milder asking if there's multiple Elim teams in a game ,that the village doesn't have any reason to think that it's multiball. more often than not that's someone with TMI asking the question to try and get village points

[Quintessential she/her]

Just now, Illwei said:

Well I am. it's not a lot though, because it was clarified in the rules, and I'm just not smart enough to notice it :P. It's like a much milder asking if there's multiple Elim teams in a game ,that the village doesn't have any reason to think that it's multiball. more often than not that's someone with TMI asking the question to try and get village points

Er... those aren't the same thing at all? Asking if there are multiple elim teams is asking something that was specifically stated in the rules. I was asking something that wasn't clarified in the rules, because TJ never said what the cutoff was for the number of players necessary before the elims would know two teammates (which makes sense, since if he had it might have given us an idea right at the start of the ratio of elims to non-elims : P)

[Illwei]

Just now, Quintessential said:

Er... those aren't the same thing at all? Asking if there are multiple elim teams is asking something that was specifically stated in the rules. I was asking something that wasn't clarified in the rules, because TJ never said what the cutoff was for the number of players necessary before the elims would know two teammates (which makes sense, since if he had it might have given us an idea right at the start of the ratio of elims to non-elims : P)

Wait after re reading it I phrased it wrong lmao uhhhh EBWOP?

3 minutes ago, Illwei said:

It's like a much milder: asking if there's multiple Elim teams in a "normal" (assume blackout) game, one that the village doesn't have any reason to think that it's multiball. more often than not that's someone with TMI asking the question to try and get village points

Does this make more sense? I would never think to ask that question because it would have never occured to me that the Elim team wouldn't be just...getting two members, like it says in the rules.

[Quintessential she/her]

Just now, Illwei said:

Does this make more sense? I would never think to ask that question because it would have never occured to me that the Elim team wouldn't be just...getting two members, like it says in the rules.

Ohhh sorry forgot other sites have blackout games as the norm okay that makes more sense. Yeah, no it was a thing that stood out to me in the rules, that's all  I was the first person to sign up, so I was worried we wouldn't get enough people to have good-sized elim teams in a multiball game, and I noticed that rule as a result of that worry.

[+Whysper she/her]

I still think we just need to resolve Archer today. It's causing too much confusion. And there's no guarantee that an Elim team will want to take them out now. In most 3p games, the two Elim factions actually tend not to fight each other so quickly, at least not through NKs. They would actually prefer to do that through votes for Villager cred. Also, they may just leave him alive for the confusion it causes us and instead go for other targets.

[Liranil she/her]

1 minute ago, Illwei said:

Does this make more sense? I would never think to ask that question because it would have never occured to me that the Elim team wouldn't be just...getting two members, like it says in the rules.

As much as I'm not a fan of this reasoning/I don't think Quinn asking about that is sus, this is giving me a village feel because I don't know if an elim would push this so hard. Idk tho.