|TJ| he/him Posted December 10, 2020 Posted December 10, 2020 1 minute ago, Eternum said: No, TJ means that Illumination lets the kill go through roleblocks. I believe that would result in kills that can't be prevented by roleblocks, but could still be prevented by Progression. Yeah that's what I meant by unblockable kills. Regular elim kill + Illumination assist from teammate.
Devotary of Spontaneity Posted December 10, 2020 Posted December 10, 2020 21 minutes ago, TJ Shade said: I believe this vote was to see if there was a response to the suspicion? The voting itself is un-Devotary-istic as they always vote for the main lynches at the end of cycles. That alone doesn't warrant suspicion, however it does remove the village read I had on them. Especially since they mentioned not feeling great about Lotus' reason to vote on Experience but Books seems fine, whereas both had somewhat similar reasons to vote on Exp. I was checking whether people would try to swing the vote onto you, with the intention of switching to Experience if they did. When nobody voted for you, I didn't bother to vote move my vote since it was 4-2 at the time. I had a post ready to switch from you to Experience, but by the time Condensation voted it was already rollover by my clock. To clarify, I was referring to my general feelings about Lotus and Books, not their vote reasoning.
Alvron Posted December 10, 2020 Posted December 10, 2020 I am so very pleased that a tie was attempted while I was away yet incredibly saddened that once again vote manipulations interfered with the will of the Gods of Luck and Chance. 18 hours ago, Flyingbooks42 said: I think that from now on, we should definitely not create ties. 18 hours ago, Quinn0928 said: I second this motion. 18 hours ago, Ooklil' the Wei said: All in favor? 18 hours ago, Furamirionind said: Aye! 18 hours ago, Ookla the Larkin said: Aye! I'm going to have to vote against this proposal purely out of principal. 18 hours ago, Flyingbooks42 said: I'm going to vote against this and get others to vote against it too just so that we can have a tie on it for the irony. I'm with you on this. All the way! 3 hours ago, Eternum said: Transferring Blades happens during the Night, after Surge actions are taken, and thus a transferred Blade cannot be used until the next cycle. Ishar's Blade was in my possession N1 and was subsequently Recalled that same night. I confirmed this by using Tension on Mat: the aforementioned "lengths" I went to to pocket him, as he put it. Ishar's Blade was not used to alter the vote count. It was a secret role and Kaladin. I have it on very good authority that Kaladin removed one of the votes on Quinn. So, as I said in my other post, if anyone tried to prove their possession of Ishar's Blade by removing one of those votes, they are Kaladin, not the wielder of Ishar's Blade. I would be very interested in just what 'very good authority' you have in regards to Kaladin being the one to remove a vote on Quinn rather than the secret role. I have my suspicions as to why but would like those confirmed or refuted if possible. If it is true that Kaladin tried to gain someones trust by removing a vote on Quinn while impersonating a Blade holder, then that person really should reveal who the imposter is so they can be dealt with either tonight or with tomorrows lynch. 1
Eternum he/him Posted December 10, 2020 Posted December 10, 2020 6 minutes ago, Alvron said: I am so very pleased that a tie was attempted while I was away yet incredibly saddened that once again vote manipulations interfered with the will of the Gods of Luck and Chance. I'm going to have to vote against this proposal purely out of principal. I'm with you on this. All the way! I would be very interested in just what 'very good authority' you have in regards to Kaladin being the one to remove a vote on Quinn rather than the secret role. I have my suspicions as to why but would like those confirmed or refuted if possible. If it is true that Kaladin tried to gain someones trust by removing a vote on Quinn while impersonating a Blade holder, then that person really should reveal who the imposter is so they can be dealt with either tonight or with tomorrows lynch. How funny would it be if, had we let those lynches go to RNG, we'd have gotten elims? That's usually how this kind of stuff goes I would not like to incur the wrath of the Gods of Luck and Chance, so I'd like to vote against not creating any more ties! Well, the secret role themselves! I know their reason for manipulating the lynch, and I'm inclined to trust them to a degree. Agreed. Though we should consider that Quinn's theory of Kaladin "proving himself" was.. well, just a theory, and plan accordingly. A villager would have no reason to hide the information we're asking about, if they had it. If they believe the person they're talking to genuinely has Ishar's Blade, then that can easily be proven and I'd be lynched next Cycle, so they have nothing to lose
Illwei Posted December 10, 2020 Posted December 10, 2020 (edited) 3 hours ago, TJ Shade said: (Illwei, looking at you ), I don't remember wrongly quoting your reads? Are you sure it wasn't Quinn or Fura? or...someone else? I don't remember it. 52 minutes ago, Alvron said: I'm going to have to vote against this proposal purely out of principal. >:( 4 hours ago, Gears said: However, if PMs die next turn, that somewhat shows that Vedel was the one who protected, since they shouldn't be out of Stormlight until the turn after I would say that that wouldn't completely work. If I was Vedel then I would let PMs close/Hope Chanarach does them again, because out of a kill/protect, I'd rather have the potential ability to heal than the potential to kill. Edited December 10, 2020 by Ooklil' the Wei
Quintessential she/her Posted December 10, 2020 Posted December 10, 2020 11 minutes ago, Ooklil' the Wei said: I would say that that wouldn't completely work. If I was Vedel then I would let PMs close/Hope Chanarach does them again, because out of a kill/protect, I'd rather have the potential ability to heal than the potential to kill. Agreed; assuming that Chanarch's Blade is not currently held by an elim, whoever has it should be the one to open PMs tonight, not Vedel; we want as many chances as possible to save people.
Araris Valerian he/him Posted December 10, 2020 Posted December 10, 2020 19 minutes ago, Ooklil' the Wei said: because out of a kill/protect, I'd rather have the potential ability to heal than the potential to kill. What?! I'm disappointed in you. I'm pretty sure the first oath of SE "I will kill those who cannot protect themselves" or something. 5
Eternum he/him Posted December 10, 2020 Posted December 10, 2020 19 minutes ago, Ookla the Araris Valerian said: What?! I'm disappointed in you. I'm pretty sure the first oath of SE "I will kill those who cannot protect themselves" or something. See, the thing is, managing to protect someone is thrilling, but having a kill is just so much fun
+Lotus she/her Posted December 10, 2020 Posted December 10, 2020 I know I haven't said much. I've been following along, I just don't have much to say. Interested in a Ventyl Lynch perhaps, although that vote manipulation could be a red herring or a honest attempt to save a villager
Quintessential she/her Posted December 10, 2020 Posted December 10, 2020 Just now, Lotus said: Interested in a Ventyl Lynch perhaps, although that vote manipulation could be a red herring or a honest attempt to save a villager According to Eternum, it was a secret role who used that vote-manip. What that means, I'm not sure, since we have no idea of the win-conditions and/or alignments of the secret roles. Actually, @Eternum some clarification on what exactly you know about the secret role would be nice... not who it is or anything, but what they can do.
+Lotus she/her Posted December 10, 2020 Posted December 10, 2020 Just now, Quinn0928 said: According to Eternum, it was a secret role who used that vote-manip. What that means, I'm not sure, since we have no idea of the win-conditions and/or alignments of the secret roles. Ah. I missed that, thanks.
Eternum he/him Posted December 10, 2020 Posted December 10, 2020 Well, that's no fun.. PAFO! Though, well, you know they have a vote cancellation. You can work from there, as I did
Quintessential she/her Posted December 10, 2020 Posted December 10, 2020 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Eternum said: Though, well, you know they have a vote cancellation. You can work from there, as I did So, wait, did they claim to you in PMs? Or did you somehow figure it out yourself...? Since none of us even know who this person is, you almost certainly had more information to work from than we do. Them having a vote-manip could mean anything, and really the fact that they took a vote off of Ventyl will only be useful to us if we lynch Ventyl. If Ventyl is elim then regardless of what you think you know about the secret role, they're probably elim-aligned, assuming they had abilities that would let them know Ventyl's alignment in the first place. If not (edit: that is, if they don't have those abilities), then I don't see why they would have had such a good reason to save Ventyl, unless it is Ventyl--but again, the only way to determine for certain would be to lynch Ventyl. Not sure I like the idea of an information lynch, and I'm not really sure how important it is... that depends on the secret role's win-con and/or alignment and/or abilities, which I know almost nothing about. Edited December 10, 2020 by Quinn0928
Eternum he/him Posted December 10, 2020 Posted December 10, 2020 They claimed to me, yeah. I'm inclined to believe them, too. I'm not clever enough to figure it out myself They didn't intend to save Ventyl, they would have let Experience be lynched regardless of whether an elim or a villager was the other option. I believe they wanted to sate their curiosity, in a sense. Their alignment is neutral, and their win doesn't end the game.
Alvron Posted December 10, 2020 Posted December 10, 2020 2 minutes ago, Eternum said: They didn't intend to save Ventyl, they would have let Experience be lynched regardless of whether an elim or a villager was the other option. I believe they wanted to sate their curiosity, in a sense. So if I'm reading this right, their win con had something to do with Experience dying over anyone else being lynched?
Quintessential she/her Posted December 10, 2020 Posted December 10, 2020 Just now, Eternum said: Their alignment is neutral, and their win doesn't end the game. I know their win doesn't end the game, because that part was announced in the original rule-set. It doesn't overly surprise me that their alignment is neutral, either. What I mean by knowing their win-con being important is that if their win-con is something that they could accomplish more easily by helping the elims, then we probably want to be wary of them, whereas if their win-con is more easily accomplished by helping the village, they could be a good ally to us in terms of helping with votes, using their abilities to our collective benefit, etc. 3 minutes ago, Eternum said: They didn't intend to save Ventyl, they would have let Experience be lynched regardless of whether an elim or a villager was the other option. I believe they wanted to sate their curiosity, in a sense. I'm not sure I understand this, exactly. Did they want to see whether experience was an elim or not?
Eternum he/him Posted December 10, 2020 Posted December 10, 2020 Hm. I don't want to reveal much about them, as it's not my place. I'm pretty sure they just want to find the elims right now, though. Maybe. Who knows?
Quintessential she/her Posted December 10, 2020 Posted December 10, 2020 Just now, Eternum said: Hm. I don't want to reveal much about them, as it's not my place. I'm pretty sure they just want to find the elims right now, though. Maybe. Who knows? Well the hope was that you knew... in the end, though, it probably isn't super important, since they're neutral and don't count for parity.
Illwei Posted December 10, 2020 Posted December 10, 2020 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Quinn0928 said: I know their win doesn't end the game, because that part was announced in the original rule-set. It doesn't overly surprise me that their alignment is neutral, either. What I mean by knowing their win-con being important is that if their win-con is something that they could accomplish more easily by helping the elims, then we probably want to be wary of them, whereas if their win-con is more easily accomplished by helping the village, they could be a good ally to us in terms of helping with votes, using their abilities to our collective benefit, etc. So, I'm more incline to trust them right now because if I was a neutral in this game I would most likely side with the village, just like if I was truthless (what's the fun in dying D1, even if it means you have a win?) It's easier for a neutral to work with the village over the Elims, because even if the Neutral finds an Elim and the Elim trusts them enough to be honest, they're not going to be able to communicate as well as the other elims or know that they're not being lied to. EDIT: Unless they're an SK :P. Edited December 10, 2020 by Ooklil' the Wei
Quintessential she/her Posted December 10, 2020 Posted December 10, 2020 2 minutes ago, Ooklil' the Wei said: EDIT: Unless they're an SK :P. SK?
Illwei Posted December 10, 2020 Posted December 10, 2020 (edited) Hi, Last time saying this, but I think it would be real nice right now if the Stone Shaman claimed to me, I have some things I want to talk about :P. Also Chanarach Please open PMs. EDIT: @Quinn0928 Serial Killer :P. I'll trust them as long as I don't think they're a serial killer :P. There's really no big reason for Elims to keep a claiming Neutral Alive, when if the Elims reveal themselves then it'll be easier to get a village win. Ask for protection and give names. If a neutral tried to side with me as an Elim I'd either kill them or just...not claim. I wouldn't trust that. Edited December 10, 2020 by Ooklil' the Wei
Alvron Posted December 10, 2020 Posted December 10, 2020 6 minutes ago, Ooklil' the Wei said: There's really no big reason for Elims to keep a claiming Neutral Alive, when if the Elims reveal themselves then it'll be easier to get a village win. Ask for protection and give names. If a neutral tried to side with me as an Elim I'd either kill them or just...not claim. I wouldn't trust that. Another vote in the lynch, a scapegoat, someone else to gather information/Blades, someone the village wouldn't think would work with the elims. These are all reasons I would work with a neutral if I was an Elim. In fact, I've worked with several in past games to varying success. There was one game where we worked with a neutral Araris and that resulted in one of the more dangerous players being attacked 7 times in a Night by the villagers. Seven! He survived and ultimately we lost the game but still...
Eternum he/him Posted December 10, 2020 Posted December 10, 2020 1 minute ago, Alvron said: Another vote in the lynch, a scapegoat, someone else to gather information/Blades, someone the village wouldn't think would work with the elims. These are all reasons I would work with a neutral if I was an Elim. In fact, I've worked with several in past games to varying success. There was one game where we worked with a neutral Araris and that resulted in one of the more dangerous players being attacked 7 times in a Night by the villagers. Seven! He survived and ultimately we lost the game but still... The most baffling part is that he survived, honestly.
Quintessential she/her Posted December 10, 2020 Posted December 10, 2020 1 minute ago, Eternum said: The most baffling part is that he survived, honestly. I was about to say, I'm not sure which part of that astounds me the most--that there was a way for seven villagers to kill the same person during the same night, or that you got them to do it, or that that person survived.
Alvron Posted December 10, 2020 Posted December 10, 2020 1 minute ago, Eternum said: The most baffling part is that he survived, honestly. He had an ability that let him see if he was going to be attacked and managed to change his orders so he only got hit twice instead.
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