Quick Fix 45: To Set an Example

[Gears]

@TJ Shade, I think you might be asleep, but if you wish to live, you need to vote on Pyro in the next two hours. 

[Lahilt]

20 minutes ago, Ventyl said:

Alright, after catching up on everything that’s gone on in this thread since last night. TJ seems has a substantially more amount of suspicion than Lahilt. To be honest I was tinfoiling with that vote . Anyway, the main votes on Pyro and TJ both seem pretty good and in reality I don’t see what difference it would make depending on who we vote. We get the same information out of both, essentially. I’m placing my vote on TJ for now solely that they seem likely to have a higher chance of being elim than Pyro. This could change depending on how the rest of the cycle plays out.

How do we get essentially the same information from a Pyro lynch as a TJ lynch?

why does TJ have a higher chance of being Elim

If it does not matter much why change your vote at all?

[Gears]

It has come to my attention that my previous vote count was incorrect. Here is a corrected version

Pyro: 7 (Gears, Matrim's Dice, Straw, Shard of Reading, The_Truthwatcher, Vapor, Lahlit)

TJ Shade: 6 (Eternum, StrikerEZ, MysticLotus, Frozen Mint, Pyro, Ventyl)

Please correct me if I am wrong.

[The Young Pyromancer]

So the reason I'm not defending myself here is because I'm more valuable to the village dead than alive at this point, as I'll provide a good amount of information on my lynch. TJ Shade The Young Pyromancer

[Straw]

Just now, The Young Pyromancer said:

So the reason I'm not defending myself here is because I'm more valuable to the village dead than alive at this point, as I'll provide a good amount of information on my lynch. TJ Shade The Young Pyromancer

Oh look it's the "Pyro makes an appeal to emotion" post of the day! 

[Gears]

1 minute ago, The Young Pyromancer said:

So the reason I'm not defending myself here is because I'm more valuable to the village dead than alive at this point, as I'll provide a good amount of information on my lynch. TJ Shade The Young Pyromancer

I thank you for your sacrifice, and hope that seppuku restores your honor.

[The Young Pyromancer]

6 minutes ago, Straw said:

Oh look it's the "Pyro makes an appeal to emotion" post of the day! 

...really Straw? If I wanted to actually do that, you know I could do better. Same with defending myself. If I actually wanted to do either one, I'd be doing a much better job of it.
Reading Straw as village again. Seems like an elim wouldn't want to hammer in their opposition to me, knowing how I'll flip.

[Frozen Mint]

Okay, I stand by what I said about Pyro's earlier posts not being suspicious but I would've expected him to defend himself by now. Not only is it suspicious but this sort of hands-off approach does nothing to help the village. TJ. Pyro.

 

Pyro: 9 (Gears, Matrim's Dice, Straw, Shard of Reading, The_Truthwatcher, Vapor, Lahlit, Pyro, Frozen Mint)

TJ Shade: 4 (Eternum, StrikerEZ, MysticLotus, Ventyl)

[Ashbringer]

Another chance for me to tie the vote... Thanks, but no thanks. From what I can tell, people think that if one of TJ and Pyro flip Elim, the other is also elim? I don’t get where that is coming from.

As far as I can tell the only reason that TJ is suspect is that he’s not posting much, which is probably due to the chaos LG66 was/is in. Plus I think he said last cycle that he would be asleep around reset.

Pyro, on the other hand, has not defended himself after several requests. I can’t really see it, but I haven’t had the chance to see reads for a lot of things.

While Gears commanding a lynch as a newbie is a little odd, its NAI I think. Plus I’ve definitely done that too...

And ninja’d by Pyro voting on himself. Well, I’ll monitor to see if that changes anything, but I do need to vote for something.

Edit: okay, ninja’d by a LOT of people.

Edited June 22, 2020 by Ashbringer

[StrikerEZ]

This is...an interesting development, to say the least. I really don’t think we’re going to gain much from lynching Pyro at this point. There’s way too many votes on him, and the vote for himself is just obfuscating things even more. I still think that TJ would be a better lynch target than Pyro, but I doubt the lynch is gonna shift that drastically in the next hour and a half.

[The Young Pyromancer]

2 minutes ago, Ashbringer said:

Pyro, on the other hand, has not defended himself after several requests.

I did a little, then said I'd defend myself in a minute. People disregarded that and said that I was not defending myself, which was suspicious, and started voting for me. After reading the arguments against TJ, I realized it was very likely they were village, since both me and Silber were. Therefore, by lynching me, a mislynch in TJ is taken off the table, and if I lived, it's likely that he would be lynched, THEN me later. That's two mislynches. Therefore, I would prefer to be lynched rather than them. If there was a different candidate for the lynch, I would be voting on them instead of me.

[Fifth Scholar]

11. Eternum: Only a few posts, if I recall, but substantive ones which have advanced the game. Poke votes Vapor and defends poke votes (would you look at that ), but agrees with Devotary and myself that they’re useful as a cheap distancing tactic for elims. Posts a reads list which mirrors my current one to a surprising extent (though I don’t agree with their ideas on Gears or Shade), and begins shifting the wagon from myself to Pyro. Puts a significant amount of pressure on Vapor, especially considering they’re new, but since he’s returning I accept the explanation that he didn’t know about experience levels and wouldn’t have really factored that into his analysis. As it stands, the points that he makes are good in themselves. He does back off appropriately once he realises Vapor’s newness, too, which makes me think it was a genuine misunderstanding rather than an elim trying to start a mislynch. Maintains his vote on Pyro throughout the first cycle, and provides analysis for this which I agree with almost wholeheartedly. This cycle he’s made only the one post condemning Shade, which seems to have been taken up to create a bandwagon. I’ve already detailed why I disagree with the idea of elim!TJ, but to elaborate more, rather than calling Silber an “easy” target as Eternum does, I’d call him a “natural” one for TJ to select, as he probably was the best non-Pyro choice at the time, and TJ didn’t want to lynch Pyro; ergo, he voted Silber. This does look worse if Pyro is evil, of course (and he may well be, which I’ll get to in a second), but the underlying train of thought seems village. I just don’t think an Elim teammate of Pyro’s would be so explicit in their defence of him. Anyway, back to Eternum. Village read, maybe the most solid that I have. Even if I disagree with some of his analysis, it’s consistently well-thought out, and he’s been helpful in creating discussion and putting his opinions out there. I’d like to see something else from him this cycle, though, just to make sure I’m not letting a few good posts from him inform my entire perspective. I’m also curious what he thinks of my defence of Shade.
12. MysticLotus: Drops a random vote on Straw C1, which is...about it in terms of early contribution. Does some nice RP this cycle (I need to start on that) and expresses mild suspicion of Straw for perhaps overstating his opposition to random votes. Makes the point which I agree with that Pyro’s alignment is not necessarily informative of TJ’s and puts a vote on the latter. Null read, perhaps very slightly village for now, mostly because I’d like to see a bit more from her, especially justification for the vote on TJ ( @MysticLotus ), but I’ve appreciated the few points she’s made so far. Mostly wary for the same reason as the other less-actives, namely, that if she’s evil she’ll blend in very easily if we don’t make an effort to garner explanations for these votes. 
13. Pyromancer: My strongest elim read. Since going through all his posts would be almost impossible due to sheer volume, I’ll highlight my reasons for suspecting him, most of which have already been mentioned: the weird vote/retraction on my bandwagon which he did during C1, the generally chaotic approach which he’s taken towards responding towards points against him, and the odd lack of traction that both bandwagons have seemed to have against him, on top of a very bad tone/gut read which I’ve had since reading through C1. I am slightly hesitant because some of the people on Pyro right now are those I have elim reads on as well (Truthwatcher and Vapor), but overall I would like a resolution to the discussion around him. Additionally, while I don’t think Pyro’s alignment has significant bearing on Shade’s, this is a good lynch to join for those of you criticising Shade on the basis of his affiliation with Pyro, to see if that claim has any foundation to begin with. 
14. Experience: Seems inactive, and hasn’t been on the Shard since the game started. Null read for obvious reasons. @Experience, where are you?
15. Frozen Mint: Jumps on Gears early, which I and several others have already expressed disagreement with. Does make a good point that bandwagons and lynch discussions tend to make for the best analysis. Wants reasoned votes, clarified that she didn’t realise Gears was new (similarly to the Eternum/Vapor situation), and says there aren’t too many good reasons to vote for someone early D1, which is certainly true.  Hedges a bit on my bandwagon, pings some inactives, and posts a reads list which seems genuine; I appreciate that they took at least some stance on everyone they mentioned. Tips the wagon away from Pyro and Straw, which is perhaps notable, and helps cement the Silber train. I agree with Eternum that this vote is odd, but can’t really place why. It’s not tone—that’s consistent with the rest of Mint’s posting. I think I’ll just evaluate it as slightly elim and leave it at that. I do like Mint’s first C2 post quite a bit—she makes some good points on a variety of players, though I again disagree with the reasoning against TJ, and think that the Pyro wagon, while I agree with it, is allowing her to remain mostly unnoticed. Her most recent post is setting a few of my alarm bells ringing—I don’t like the broad casting of suspicion she employs, especially on Mat, which looked too preemptively hedgy. On balance, she’s been a decent contributor to discussion, but the lack of a recent firm stance on anyone except TJ and Pyro bothers me, and she’s a good candidate for a more vocal Obligator. Leaning eliminator based on recent behaviour. 
16. Ventyl: No posts from C1, which is unfortunate for my analysis. Not really liking either of the posts from C2 either—as Eternum pointed out, his commentary on Xino’s death felt very odd, and the tone of the entire post was just...off, from the explicit claim not to be evil to the weird analysis which broke up elim kills into experience level. As I said before, trying to analyse elim kills isn’t terribly useful until you have a few, so you can start noticing patterns. It’s also worth noting that Elims tend to choose targets whose deaths will misdirect or confuse the village of analysed too closely, another reason not to read too much into one kill. Also don’t like their recent assertion that it doesn’t matter which of TJ and Pyro we kill, especially since I’m pretty convinced of the former’s innocence and the latter’s guilt. Giving them a mild eliminator read which will likely be stronger if TJ and Pyro share alignments. 
17. Fifth Scholar: C’est moi. 
18. Devotary of Spontaneity: Votes me, trying to get a response on Eliminator poke vote tendencies. Her concerns here seem legitimate, if NAI for Devotary. She later retracts this vote once the bandwagon on me has reached full force, and offers a few thoughts on its development and on the switch to Pyro. Interestingly expresses that she does not believe Pyro is evil, but does not elaborate much on this. At the end of the cycle, breaks the tie for Silberfarben. Normally I would chalk these combined factors up to a reasonably good chance of a Devotary/Pyro team, but unfortunately Devotary tends to behave this way, especially the last-minute voting, regardless of alignment. I will take a closer look at her if Pyro flips evil, though. This cycle, she’s not voted yet, but has pointed out a few of the inconsistencies in the reasoning used to condemn TJ, which I agree with. Overall, a null read—Devotary’s style tends to resist my form of analysis, though she is contributing, which I appreciate. @Devotary of Spontaneity, what are your thoughts on recent developments, particularly on Shade’s bandwagon? And could you vote a little sooner than ten minutes out this cycle?  
20. StrikerEZ: Didn’t post C1 as far as I could tell. C2 they posted a reads list which had some good ideas but tended to hedge a lot, though from the sounds of it they were relying heavily on memory. Has recently attacked TJ for their stance on why people should be suspected, which I’m a little conflicted about, as I agree with Striker that voting for people on the grounds that they’re attacking someone you trust is valid, but dislike the absolute assertion that this is “all of what SE is about,” which is overstatement. One of the better votes on the TJ wagon, and based mostly off tone, a slight village read. I’ll need to take a closer look at him later. 
21. Lahilt: Votes Mat on gut alone, claiming lack of time to make a longer post. Defends his read, says he hopes to switch it but never does. I like their posts this cycle, though, especially the willingness to draw distinctions between TJ and Pyro’s lynches. Unfortunately he hasn’t really said enough for me to put him above a very slight village read, though. 
22. Sparkrunner: Presumably inactive; null. @Sparkrunner

[Mist]

29 minutes ago, The Young Pyromancer said:

So the reason I'm not defending myself here is because I'm more valuable to the village dead than alive at this point, as I'll provide a good amount of information on my lynch. TJ Shade The Young Pyromancer

What.

I'm not sure what to think about this. I think, because of this, Pyro needs to be lynched. If he escaped this turn, I know I would be extremely suspicious. Actually, I'm realizing I really don't like this. 

Matrim, your early posts seemed off, maybe because you said I'll go get some reads, then returned without another vote. It wasn't much.

More analysis: Vapor is seeming less suspicious now. If I have Internet and time in the next hour, I'll post more. 

[The Young Pyromancer]

16 minutes ago, StrikerEZ said:

This is...an interesting development, to say the least. I really don’t think we’re going to gain much from lynching Pyro at this point. There’s way too many votes on him, and the vote for himself is just obfuscating things even more. I still think that TJ would be a better lynch target than Pyro, but I doubt the lynch is gonna shift that drastically in the next hour and a half.

This post feels a little off to me. Feels like an elim distancing from someone about to flip village. Possible distancing from TJ as well, but I doubt it. 

EDIT: Flame On!

Edited June 22, 2020 by The Young Pyromancer

[Ookla-son-son-Ventyl]

2 minutes ago, The Young Pyromancer said:

This post feels a little off to me. Feels like an elim distancing from someone about to flip village. Possible distancing from TJ as well, but I doubt it. 

EDIT: Flame On!

I disagree, I think Striker has a point. Considering how many people are voting on you it would not give us a whole lot of information on to why. This could be an elim tactic to try to not get TJ lynched C2

[The Young Pyromancer]

Just now, Ventyl said:

I disagree, I think Striker has a point. Considering how many people are voting on you it would not give us a whole lot of information on to why. This could be an elim tactic to try to not get TJ lynched C2

The earlier points on why they would shift things still applies, so if I'm village, why would TJ express a preference in the me/Siber lynch as an elim? That theory has it's flaws, but it still is somewhat valid.

[Ashbringer]

22 minutes ago, The Young Pyromancer said:

I did a little, then said I'd defend myself in a minute. People disregarded that and said that I was not defending myself, which was suspicious, and started voting for me. After reading the arguments against TJ, I realized it was very likely they were village, since both me and Silber were. Therefore, by lynching me, a mislynch in TJ is taken off the table, and if I lived, it's likely that he would be lynched, THEN me later. That's two mislynches. Therefore, I would prefer to be lynched rather than them. If there was a different candidate for the lynch, I would be voting on them instead of me.

Hmm. You said you would post a defense “later” about 2 hours ago, and when prompted again (all I can see is Gears asking, not saying you were refusing) all you did was vote TJ.

That does actually make some sense, but like you said there isn’t really anyone else to vote for at this point.

Edited June 22, 2020 by Ashbringer

[+Lotus]

I think I’m going to stick with my vote on TJ. He jumped on last rounds bandwagon a little quick then I think was appropriate. Because I’ve never played this before, I’m not sure, but I am very vin-like with my instincts, so I’m going for him.

 

It’s interesting that Pyro seems to be encouraging people to vote on him, because while at first glance seems like a good Elim strategy, really isn’t with the number of votes he has on him already. 
 

I still think Straw’s behavior is suspicious, but I think that a lot of people have made some good points on why he was acting that way.

[The Young Pyromancer]

Thanks for at least admitting that I make sense

I think part of the reason people are reading me as elim is that the lack of roles makes me a lot less motivated this game.

[StrikerEZ]

21 minutes ago, Fifth Scholar said:

StrikerEZ: Didn’t post C1 as far as I could tell. C2 they posted a reads list which had some good ideas but tended to hedge a lot, though from the sounds of it they were relying heavily on memory. Has recently attacked TJ for their stance on why people should be suspected, which I’m a little conflicted about, as I agree with Striker that voting for people on the grounds that they’re attacking someone you trust is valid, but dislike the absolute assertion that this is “all of what SE is about,” which is overstatement. One of the better votes on the TJ wagon, and based mostly off tone, a slight village read. I’ll need to take a closer look at him later. 

First off, I actually did post C1, before you did your first post that cycle. You even quoted me in that post.  It’s fine that you don’t remember it, because there really wasn’t a whole lot of substance to it.

Secondly, I will admit that I was being a bit dramatic earlier to make a point. Obviously there are other ways to get reads on people besides seeing how and why they vote for certain players, but that is a lot of how I determine who I’m suspicious of, and saying that that method of getting reads isn’t super effective until players flip kind of set me on edge.

Anyway, I don’t think the lynch train is going to switch at this point and I don’t particularly suspect Pyro, so I’m just going to leave my vote where it is. 

[Straw]

Some reads, as of now: (omitting null reads as usual)

Eternum (Strong Village)

Eternum is my strongest village read at the moment, even if I disagree with them about TJ. They've had good reads and read processes in my opinion, and their thought process on Vapor specifically was good. I also felt like their thoughts on the Silber lynch came from a good mindset.

Frozen Mint (Mild Village)

I think their thought process on Gears last cycle felt natural and good. I disagree with people saying their Silber vote was suspicious, as they had previously listed Silber as one of their suspicions. I agree with their thoughts on Vapor. They do seem a bit paranoid though, but I'll have to see how that progresses.

Gears (Mild Village)

I feel like their analysis and contributions to the thread have been useful. I haven't loved their lack of village reads, but that's just us having different playstyles I think, and they seem decently willing to trust people. I think their contributions in the thread today have been fine, even if they've given fewer straight lists of reads. They've had some fair vote analysis though.

Matrim's Dice (Very Mild Village)

Their initial vote on Ventyl at the start of this cycle was strange, but just felt like they weren't used to that much joking around.  I've felt like they've been pretty NAI this cycle, and I'm mainly giving them village cred since they were good last cycle. I'd like to take a closer look at them though.

Mist (Very Mild Village)

The one thing I noticed about Mint was the elim team size thing. I felt like it was rather inaccurate to say there was a possibility of seven elims in a game with no roles, and I don't think an elim would overstate the number that much. Other than that, I've gotten pretty much nothing from their posts. They do seem slightly better than the other low posters though.

TJ Shade (Very Mild Village)

Some people have said that they didn't like TJ's defence, but it seems fine IMO. I'd like if they could give some direct reads, however. While they've been fairly helpful, they haven't provided many. I'll be watching for that next cycle. I'll be looking at them more in the future.

The Young Pyromancer (Strong Elim)

As I've mentioned before, their vote on Fifth and subsequent retraction felt highly suspicious. Their repeated appeals to emotion rather than actual defenses are suspicious. They really haven't provided anything to the discussion either. I don't think they've provided any reads. I also find the fact that they're apparently fairly active in PMs to be odd, since I'd think they'd be focusing on defending themself in the thread.

Vapor (??? - special circumstance)

I have an elim read on basically everything Vapor has said, but it seems like they're way too suspicious to actually be an elim. I also do give them heavy village cred for their summary post near the start of this cycle, mainly due to how uncoached it felt. Basically, they seem suspicious, but also don't feel like they have any team to rely on.

Hmm, feels like that's too many village reads. I should take a closer look at some of them along with my null reads.

[Eternum]

Hello all! I haven't been home for most of today, but I'll be here until rollover. Time to actually read through all of this...

7 hours ago, Straw said:

@Eternum The one issue I have with that is if TJ is an elim, it would mean that Pyro is also an elim. If the vote trains were both village, elim!TJ wouldn't have cared about swinging the vote to Silber. I guess it could have been pocketing, but I don't think that's particularly likely. So, in this case wouldn't it make more sense to vote Pyro?

This strays into IKYK territory, now that I think about it. Elim!TJ could have been drawing the vote off of village!Pyro just because it really doesn't matter and, in that case, wouldn't make sense for an elim to do but it doesn't actually hurt them (the obvious statement that they could both be elims doesn't need to be rehashed). Feels like mental gymnastics, if I'm being completely honest. 
Voting for Pyro in this case would be the safe option, because how he flips would go a long way in determining TJ's alignment (barring the above mental gymnastics), but I wanted a response.

7 hours ago, TJ Shade said:

@Straw, I don't agree with your read on Gears because you think a new elim player would be more cautious/ hesitant to post first. Gears seems largely enthusiastic about SE, being the first one to sign up, so it wouldn't be a stretch to chalk up their first post to enthusiasm. They could also be encouraged by their teammates to post as soon as possible if they were elim. 

This post very much feels like they peer review their posts with their teammates. They could possibly be using their knowledge as an elim that Lord Sil is a villager to gain a favor. 

 Gears has shown that we shouldn't write them off as a new player-- they're picking things up very quickly, to their credit. I'm more inclined to believe they're a quick learner or have some experience with deduction games than to say they're consulting with teammates for all of their posts.

Both you and Gears, however, seem to think peer review is common. In my personal experience, I've never seen it happen. Assuming peer review just feels like a very bad move, but there's not much to say here. Not really alignment-indicative, just my two cents.

7 hours ago, TJ Shade said:

I find the xino bit more suspicious that the "I'm not elim bit". Why mention they were looking forward to playing with them? It looks like it came out of nowhere. Also, how would you know they were villager if they were alive and playing alongside you?

Honestly, I feel like you're reading far too deep into it. It seems like an honest mistake, an elim would not let that kind of Freudian slip happen. My gut says Ventyl is village, but I'll have to see more from them.

7 hours ago, TJ Shade said:

I repeat, my vote on Lord Sil is not because they tinfoiled. Rather because they seem to choose Fifth over xino despite them believing they were a team, giving no reason why they chose Fifth over xino.
Mine was just the 2nd vote on them, and I did not prompt anyone to build on the lynch. I was waiting for Lord Sil to explain their reasoning on why they chose Fifth over xino. I only suggested an alternative lynch on Sil when prompted by Straw out of the pool of players he mentioned because I did not agree Devotary, Vapor or Lahilt were more suspicious than Lord Sil and the other player on their pool was Pyro, on whom the train was at the point. 

Devotary told they do not believe Pyro is evil. I told the reason people were voting on him was NAI. And I reiterated that he could be elim, but not for the reasons he was being voted upon, and hence I did not want to get involved. 
You say the reasons for my voting was odd, yet you state Silber had made suspicious and incriminating statements. Isn't it natural for me to feel suspicion towards them?
If I was an elim, I really wouldn't encourage my team to choose xino as the elim kill, would I? That would obviously incriminate me since I've voted for both of them. 

Finally, I really wouldn't suggest starting a train on Lord Sil to Straw if I was an elim since I would know that Lord Sil would flip village and that would put suspicion on me. I wouldn't think any elim would start lynch trains since that would be too suspicious. They also wouldn't bandwagon onto the end since that would be looked closely as well. I'd look at the players who gave train an impetus, just the extra momentum to build up so as to say.

Edit: Was ninja'd by Gears. I didn't vote for Silber because they didn't vote for xino. I voted for them because they did not provide an explanation as to why they voted for Fifth above xino.

I'll be brief: If Sil thought them to be a team, does it matter in the slightest which of the two he voted for? Honestly, I don't see the logic there.
You didn't push it as a lynch at first, perhaps, but that doesn't really matter either. The vote stuck.
You stated that Pyro's actions were NAI, based on other player's reads. Only person to mention anything about Pyro was Devotary.
Sil's suspicious statements were specifically all the tinfoiling. You did not vote on Sil because of them, but because you believed there should be a reasoning behind his vote. As I said above, I don't understand that at all.
Also, your point about elims not wanting to start trains is eh. Maybe so, if they want to lay low, but just because that's the safe option doesn't mean elims won't take action. It all comes down to personal playstyle.
Again, there is no difference in my mind between voting on Silber for not voting on Xino and voting on Silber for not giving the reasoning behind picking which of their two elim suspects to vote on.

You guys talk a lot. Sheesh  I hate that I couldn't be more active this cycle. I do not intend to move my vote, but I'll try to post again before rollover.

[StrikerEZ]

25 minutes ago, The Young Pyromancer said:

This post feels a little off to me. Feels like an elim distancing from someone about to flip village. Possible distancing from TJ as well, but I doubt it.

I will gladly lynch TJ next cycle at this point, regardless of how you flip once this cycle is over. Their reasoning has just felt really off to me so far. I’m fairly confident it’s not because I’ve boxed them in as an elim in my head, though I guess that’s always a possibility.

As for my post that you quoted, I do think it’s possible that you are an elim. I’ve been giving you the benefit of the doubt so far though, but I don’t deny that there is some evidence that seems a bit odd. But, I think TJ is more likely to be an elim. And at this point, almost half of the votes on you at this point are simply because of the bandwagon, which will make it harder to analyze why they voted for you once you flip.

I meant to respond to this earlier, but multiquoting across pages doesn’t really work on mobile.

[+Lotus]

Sorry, but what do people mean when talking about a person ‘flipping village’

[StrikerEZ]

Just now, MysticLotus said:

Sorry, but what do people mean when talking about a person ‘flipping village’

Basically, once a person is lynched or killed, flipping means we find out if they were a villager or an elim. So if someone says “you’re going to flip village” they mean “when you die, we’ll find out you were a villager.” Hope this helps.