The Chat Thread

[Lord Meeker]

@Snipexe and I wanted to bring in destiny since war hammer 40k was approved. Here is the summary.

Destiny is a Sci-Fi/Fantasy game taking place in a post-apocalyptic Solar System. The basic premise is as follows. In the near future, a large unknown object was spotted entering the solar system, and went to Mars. Humanity launched a mission and made contact. The object was discovered to be a large sentient sphere, called The Traveler and Humanity made an alliance with it. This began the Golden Age for humanity, where many advances were made in technology. The Golden Age was incredible, and soon humanity had colonized most if not all of the planets of the Solar System. However behind the Traveler, many foes came, called the darkness. These enemies were alien foes, who were attracted to the traveler’s light, and wanted to take it for their own. They launched an attack on the Traveler, causing it to go dormant, and damaging it permenantly. The Travelers last act was to release Ghosts, small baseball sized robots that can hover. These ghosts have the ability to reanimate the dead, creating Guardians. These Guardians are warriors, helping to protect humanity and to combat humanity’s foes, whatever they may be. In order to aid in this these Guardians were given special powers, called the Light, to help combat the Darkness.

How, you might be asking, do these so called Guardians get into the Alleyverse. We know that there is at least 1 dimensionalist epic in the Reckoners, so it isn’t impossible for there to be more. A fireteam of Guardians was ripped from their dimension, and into the reckoner’s by one of these dimensionalists. They brought with them a shard of the Traveler, enabling them to fuel both their light and their Ghosts. The same dimensionalist then sent the Guardians to the Alleyverse, instead of returning them to their own dimension. These Guardians now view investiture as the Darkness’s manifestation in this realm, and so it’s their goal to eliminate it.

The powers of Guardians is as follows:

1. Resurrection: When Guardians die, they can be resurrected by their Ghost. However if they are left too long without being resurrected they lose their memories.

2. There are 3 classes of Guardians, Hunters (Scouts or Snipers) Titans (Heavy Hitters, or “Tanks” (In videogame terminology)) and Warlocks (Mages or Palidans)

Each class has several different sub classes with special abilities, called supers. These Supers can only be used roughly once per 5 minutes, and make their users harder to kill while active. They last roughly 15-30 seconds.

Hunters have Gunslingers (Who can pull a Golden Gun out of the air that fires several devastating flaming bullets), Nightstalkers (Fires a Void bow that tethers enemies in range of its arrows, weakening and slowing them) and Bladedancer (has an electric staff)

Titans have Hammers of Sol (gains flaming hammers to throw at people), Sentinels (Like Captain America but with a void shield), and Fists of Havoc (Basically Thor at the end of Thor:Ragnarok)

Warlocks have Nova Bomb (Basically just a giant Void bomb that is thrown, exploding in contact), Dawnblade (Gets a giant flaming sword, and the ability to fly), and a Stormcaller (Lightning shoots out of the fingers)

3. Increased Mobility. Guardians have increased strength and jumping abilities.

These powers are negated if their ghosts are damaged

 

Restrictive qualities to the light agreed upon by us. Being pulled over to this dimension the guardians light is restricted. Not gone. The mentioned light abilities take longer to charge limit to one super ability and a guardian can't be revived unlimited times. Upward of nine max.

There should be a poll above. Tell us what you think. If it is approved then @Snipexe and I will make a Index score sheet.

[Karnatheon]

So, we had previously voted against any non-Warhammer sci-fi being included. If we did end up going with an alternate universe system people we're talking about with a bunch of different worlds and such, I think it would be easier to introduce those types of things in other universes, which would allow for people to bring in whatever kind of stuff they wanted, just restricted to that universe. Just my thoughts. I don't really care either way 

[old man moomba]

If we can add in Sci-Fi with the alternate universes, then I am totally in.

Although I really want to know how inter-universal travel would work.

[xinoehp512]

18 hours ago, MacThorstenson said:

This doesnt change the fact that 90% of plot in the alleyverse happens in the alleycity or within reasonable traveling distance of the alleycity. 

Inside of the city there is bound to be some form of public transportation that allows people to move around, and most people don’t use Tia Cards to move around within city centered plots.

So long as most of the plot happens inside of the city, I don’t think that removing the Tia cards would have an enourmus impact on reducing the complexity.

The issue that we are trying to solve is that the RP in the alleycity is enormously complex.

It doesn’t matter how we make things simpler, whether by universe splitting or just breaking up the cities, but we need to eventually create different settings that are  separated to some degree. 

My concern with keeping them on the same planet is that people want to keep modern technology. So things like airplanes and helicopters can heavily reduce travel times and can keep everything connected.  

If we find someway to ensure that that doesn’t happen, we could try to come up with different areas in the alleycontinent/alleyplanet. 

Alleycanes. The Alleystorm covers only a fraction of the planet; the rest would be patrolled by various named and unnamed alleycanes. The risk of getting hit by one of those- which would almost certainly take you down- would deter air travel.

[+Sorana]

I'd prefer to not add anymore sci-fi elements. We already voted, if we should implement more settings apart from Brandon's books, and decided against it. We can vote on that again, but maybe we should first finish the discussion about the universum first and then start the next topic.

===============

Regarding the complex roleplay:

It will be hard to reduce the complexity, and honestly I feel like introducing several universes will only make everything more complicated.

In my opinion the complexity is based on the fact that it's a ffrp, with several people creating the plots/ threads. If we really want to make it more simple, we need to reduce the locations, and put people in charge to lead a plot along (as happened with "the north sea/ the other side of the world").

[Fatebreaker]

Something we could consider is adding Denizen regulation to inter dimensional or interplanetary travel. A barrier could be created that spans the PR, CR, and SR. A gateway would be manned by a powerful DA representative whose sole focus was inter dimensional/slash planetary travel. While not interfering with those seeking to travel, they would regulate the amount of travel and the time required to reach the destination as parameters for their experiments. They would require the proper forms to be filled out before travel was allowed as well, since the DA prides itself in its integrated science bureaucracy.

This would allow a player or even a mod to rp the gatekeeper and provide the in universe reason for the limitations of just popping back and forth. Anyone who wants to hop to another world or universe would have to rp an encounter with the gatekeeper, allowing for easier regulation by either the community as a whole or just the mods if they want to rp that. Since the DA is the most powerful group in the multiverse, they can enforce gate security.

This can be modified and workshopped of course, but it could be an in world explanation for splitting off different threads as needed.

[kenod]

To me the main issue with the multiple universes idea is that it causes trouble with the guild focus the RP currently has. While having a number of different, separate RPs/plot lines  going on could work (looking at the Reckoners rp), guilds kind of throw a wrench into the whole thing. The problem is that we've been encouraging guild based plots a lot, with new people encouraged to join existing guilds, and having all kinds of smaller guilds around as well, with most people creating multiple characters to support each of their guilds, and generally participating in any events held by these guilds. If we split up the universes it will cause issues with the guilds interacting, and might cause most people to concentrate their characters on the universe their guild is the most active at. To solve this I propose the following solution.

Going by the idea that completely abandoning the concept of guilds is probably a no go, and that guilds only being a thing in a single universe would cause most people to concentrate there, I suggest that the minor guilds would be spread out among the universes, the universe depending on where they fit the best, with the tech guilds going into one of the mega-corp sci-fi universes for example. This also allows for multiple similar guilds to form, since they'll have to fit a theme, or because said universe doesn't have that one yet. The great guilds would have departments in each universe, though probably with a decreased level of influence, to increase the focus on the smaller guilds. On the other hand they'll have knowledge of the other universes (though most characters probably won't), and have a limited ability to travel between them, and a limited level of coordination, though each local instance will differ from the others, fitting the local theme (taking the DA, in a medieval world they'd be a bunch a alchemists, and a sci-fi world would have them be mad geneticists). This would allow for a guild based RP, but with each guild fitting their setting, and people not creating all their characters in one world because it's where their guild is active.

As for the current universe, we kind of have an issue, especially with the start of the new era just coming under way, and everybody's current characters being there. My suggestion for this would be to cut down on all ongoing plots until we only have a small number remaining, and focus only on politics in there (especially with how the politics thing is currently going that would cause a lot of people to move on different universes). We should also lock down a vision for the current universe and then double down on it. If we continue to add new things it'll turn into a main universe, which would cause everyone to stay there.

As for the new universes, I'd suggest that together with giving them unique settings we might want to add an unique magic system or quirk to existing systems to them, to make them more appealing, and to make them fit better with their themes. This might also include modifications to existing systems, to make them fit better, or perhaps even cutting systems (guess this means an unique Index for each universe, depending on their rules).

On a finishing note, I'm currently designing the setting for a magical girl style universe, if anyone is interested in joining. I might post it later, if anyone is interested, it might help nail down the idea of what these universes would look like.

[Lord Meeker]

6 hours ago, Dr. Dapper said:

If we can add in Sci-Fi with the alternate universes, then I am totally in.

Although I really want to know how inter-universal travel would work.

No. Read this specific post.

 

20 hours ago, Lord Meeker said:

A fireteam of Guardians was ripped from their dimension, and into the reckoner’s by one of these dimensionalists. They brought with them a shard of the Traveler, enabling them to fuel both their light and their Ghosts. The same dimensionalist then sent the Guardians to the Alleyverse, instead of returning them to their own dimension

No interdimensional anything required. 

5 hours ago, Sorana said:

I'd prefer to not add anymore sci-fi elements. We already voted, if we should implement more settings apart from Brandon's books, and decided against it. We can vote on that again, but maybe we should first finish the discussion about the universum first and then start the next topic.

So the only thing I'd consider sci-fi is the exos (human conscience put into a robot) and the Ghosts (created by the Traveler with its dying breath. They are for the most part and unexplained phenomenon.). The light is simply the magic and weapons are pretty modern day. @Snipexe and I weren't going to bring over the spaceship that the guardians have.

3 hours ago, Fatebreaker said:

Something we could consider is adding Denizen regulation to inter dimensional or interplanetary travel. A barrier could be created that spans the PR, CR, and SR. A gateway would be manned by a powerful DA representative whose sole focus was inter dimensional/slash planetary travel. While not interfering with those seeking to travel, they would regulate the amount of travel and the time required to reach the destination as parameters for their experiments. They would require the proper forms to be filled out before travel was allowed as well, since the DA prides itself in its integrated science bureaucracy.

This would allow a player or even a mod to rp the gatekeeper and provide the in universe reason for the limitations of just popping back and forth. Anyone who wants to hop to another world or universe would have to rp an encounter with the gatekeeper, allowing for easier regulation by either the community as a whole or just the mods if they want to rp that. Since the DA is the most powerful group in the multiverse, they can enforce gate security.

This can be modified and workshopped of course, but it could be an in world explanation for splitting off different threads as needed.

While I am for the idea. I'd rather not have the DA in control of that...

1 hour ago, kenod said:

To me the main issue with the multiple universes idea is that it causes trouble with the guild focus the RP currently has. While having a number of different, separate RPs/plot lines  going on could work (looking at the Reckoners rp), guilds kind of throw a wrench into the whole thing. The problem is that we've been encouraging guild based plots a lot, with new people encouraged to join existing guilds, and having all kinds of smaller guilds around as well, with most people creating multiple characters to support each of their guilds, and generally participating in any events held by these guilds. If we split up the universes it will cause issues with the guilds interacting, and might cause most people to concentrate their characters on the universe their guild is the most active at. To solve this I propose the following solution.

Going by the idea that completely abandoning the concept of guilds is probably a no go, and that guilds only being a thing in a single universe would cause most people to concentrate there, I suggest that the minor guilds would be spread out among the universes, the universe depending on where they fit the best, with the tech guilds going into one of the mega-corp sci-fi universes for example. This also allows for multiple similar guilds to form, since they'll have to fit a theme, or because said universe doesn't have that one yet. The great guilds would have departments in each universe, though probably with a decreased level of influence, to increase the focus on the smaller guilds. On the other hand they'll have knowledge of the other universes (though most characters probably won't), and have a limited ability to travel between them, and a limited level of coordination, though each local instance will differ from the others, fitting the local theme (taking the DA, in a medieval world they'd be a bunch a alchemists, and a sci-fi world would have them be mad geneticists). This would allow for a guild based RP, but with each guild fitting their setting, and people not creating all their characters in one world because it's where their guild is active.

As for the current universe, we kind of have an issue, especially with the start of the new era just coming under way, and everybody's current characters being there. My suggestion for this would be to cut down on all ongoing plots until we only have a small number remaining, and focus only on politics in there (especially with how the politics thing is currently going that would cause a lot of people to move on different universes). We should also lock down a vision for the current universe and then double down on it. If we continue to add new things it'll turn into a main universe, which would cause everyone to stay there.

As for the new universes, I'd suggest that together with giving them unique settings we might want to add an unique magic system or quirk to existing systems to them, to make them more appealing, and to make them fit better with their themes. This might also include modifications to existing systems, to make them fit better, or perhaps even cutting systems (guess this means an unique Index for each universe, depending on their rules).

On a finishing note, I'm currently designing the setting for a magical girl style universe, if anyone is interested in joining. I might post it later, if anyone is interested, it might help nail down the idea of what these universes would look like.

I like the solution but like I said above. We figured out a way to bring them to this current universe.

[old man moomba]

3 hours ago, kenod said:

To me the main issue with the multiple universes idea is that it causes trouble with the guild focus the RP currently has. While having a number of different, separate RPs/plot lines  going on could work (looking at the Reckoners rp), guilds kind of throw a wrench into the whole thing. The problem is that we've been encouraging guild based plots a lot, with new people encouraged to join existing guilds, and having all kinds of smaller guilds around as well, with most people creating multiple characters to support each of their guilds, and generally participating in any events held by these guilds. If we split up the universes it will cause issues with the guilds interacting, and might cause most people to concentrate their characters on the universe their guild is the most active at. To solve this I propose the following solution.

Going by the idea that completely abandoning the concept of guilds is probably a no go, and that guilds only being a thing in a single universe would cause most people to concentrate there, I suggest that the minor guilds would be spread out among the universes, the universe depending on where they fit the best, with the tech guilds going into one of the mega-corp sci-fi universes for example. This also allows for multiple similar guilds to form, since they'll have to fit a theme, or because said universe doesn't have that one yet. The great guilds would have departments in each universe, though probably with a decreased level of influence, to increase the focus on the smaller guilds. On the other hand they'll have knowledge of the other universes (though most characters probably won't), and have a limited ability to travel between them, and a limited level of coordination, though each local instance will differ from the others, fitting the local theme (taking the DA, in a medieval world they'd be a bunch a alchemists, and a sci-fi world would have them be mad geneticists). This would allow for a guild based RP, but with each guild fitting their setting, and people not creating all their characters in one world because it's where their guild is active.

As for the current universe, we kind of have an issue, especially with the start of the new era just coming under way, and everybody's current characters being there. My suggestion for this would be to cut down on all ongoing plots until we only have a small number remaining, and focus only on politics in there (especially with how the politics thing is currently going that would cause a lot of people to move on different universes). We should also lock down a vision for the current universe and then double down on it. If we continue to add new things it'll turn into a main universe, which would cause everyone to stay there.

As for the new universes, I'd suggest that together with giving them unique settings we might want to add an unique magic system or quirk to existing systems to them, to make them more appealing, and to make them fit better with their themes. This might also include modifications to existing systems, to make them fit better, or perhaps even cutting systems (guess this means an unique Index for each universe, depending on their rules).

On a finishing note, I'm currently designing the setting for a magical girl style universe, if anyone is interested in joining. I might post it later, if anyone is interested, it might help nail down the idea of what these universes would look like.

I like this idea...

I have a bunch of weird sci-fi/fantasy planets/ideas stored up. I really enjoy the idea of having diffrent levels of technological advancements. You could also have diffrent magic in the sci-fi universes, with some having none at all. So you could have a hard sci-fi megacorp universe, or a space opera, depending on what people want. I feel like we could do something like the zone things in the OASIS, where you have areas where magic works, or advanced technolagy works, or they both work. 

The only thing I worry about are new players joining. I feel like it would be really complex and hard to understand.

[xinoehp512]

6 hours ago, Fatebreaker said:

Something we could consider is adding Denizen regulation to inter dimensional or interplanetary travel. A barrier could be created that spans the PR, CR, and SR. A gateway would be manned by a powerful DA representative whose sole focus was inter dimensional/slash planetary travel. While not interfering with those seeking to travel, they would regulate the amount of travel and the time required to reach the destination as parameters for their experiments. They would require the proper forms to be filled out before travel was allowed as well, since the DA prides itself in its integrated science bureaucracy.

This would allow a player or even a mod to rp the gatekeeper and provide the in universe reason for the limitations of just popping back and forth. Anyone who wants to hop to another world or universe would have to rp an encounter with the gatekeeper, allowing for easier regulation by either the community as a whole or just the mods if they want to rp that. Since the DA is the most powerful group in the multiverse, they can enforce gate security.

This can be modified and workshopped of course, but it could be an in world explanation for splitting off different threads as needed.

Absolutely not. I am not giving the DA any more power than it already has. 

4 hours ago, kenod said:

To me the main issue with the multiple universes idea is that it causes trouble with the guild focus the RP currently has. While having a number of different, separate RPs/plot lines  going on could work (looking at the Reckoners rp), guilds kind of throw a wrench into the whole thing. The problem is that we've been encouraging guild based plots a lot, with new people encouraged to join existing guilds, and having all kinds of smaller guilds around as well, with most people creating multiple characters to support each of their guilds, and generally participating in any events held by these guilds. If we split up the universes it will cause issues with the guilds interacting, and might cause most people to concentrate their characters on the universe their guild is the most active at. To solve this I propose the following solution.

Going by the idea that completely abandoning the concept of guilds is probably a no go, and that guilds only being a thing in a single universe would cause most people to concentrate there, I suggest that the minor guilds would be spread out among the universes, the universe depending on where they fit the best, with the tech guilds going into one of the mega-corp sci-fi universes for example. This also allows for multiple similar guilds to form, since they'll have to fit a theme, or because said universe doesn't have that one yet. The great guilds would have departments in each universe, though probably with a decreased level of influence, to increase the focus on the smaller guilds. On the other hand they'll have knowledge of the other universes (though most characters probably won't), and have a limited ability to travel between them, and a limited level of coordination, though each local instance will differ from the others, fitting the local theme (taking the DA, in a medieval world they'd be a bunch a alchemists, and a sci-fi world would have them be mad geneticists). This would allow for a guild based RP, but with each guild fitting their setting, and people not creating all their characters in one world because it's where their guild is active.

As for the current universe, we kind of have an issue, especially with the start of the new era just coming under way, and everybody's current characters being there. My suggestion for this would be to cut down on all ongoing plots until we only have a small number remaining, and focus only on politics in there (especially with how the politics thing is currently going that would cause a lot of people to move on different universes). We should also lock down a vision for the current universe and then double down on it. If we continue to add new things it'll turn into a main universe, which would cause everyone to stay there.

As for the new universes, I'd suggest that together with giving them unique settings we might want to add an unique magic system or quirk to existing systems to them, to make them more appealing, and to make them fit better with their themes. This might also include modifications to existing systems, to make them fit better, or perhaps even cutting systems (guess this means an unique Index for each universe, depending on their rules).

On a finishing note, I'm currently designing the setting for a magical girl style universe, if anyone is interested in joining. I might post it later, if anyone is interested, it might help nail down the idea of what these universes would look like.

 

1.I disagree with the main premise of this wholeheartedly. The main problem with the multiple universes idea is that it would add too much complexity to the RP. We do not need new universes: we can make do with the one we have. That would solve this problem.

2.I have a hard time believing that any guild is going to move out of the main seat of power, which is in the Alleycity. Politically, it makes no sense. If guilds need different settings, they can exist inside the city; I think we were tossing around an idea about zoning the city into different technological levels.

 

3.If you have trouble with too many plots in the same place, go to the other side of the world. There's plenty of space for plots not to interfere with each other. As for locking down a "vision", that would ruin the idea of adding in new settings and plots on the other side.

 

[Voidus]

Multiple universes would make the entire, overarching supersystem more complicated, but with the benefit that any individual plotline or setting could become far, far less complicated. Fewer characters, fewer crossovers, less required reading to understand what is going on. So while our very frequent posters who enjoy having multiple characters will have a bit of added complexity, newer characters can easily slot in without needing to know the entire overarching structure of every plot, character and location.

It's essentially a localised reset of everything, all characters start on the same page 'where the heck are we and what do we do now?', story can develop organically, newer fantastical settings can be introduced without detracting from or influencing other plots, we could experiment with other forms of story telling or different structures. (Could set one of the worlds up to be resource rich and have guilds fight a wargame over who gets to control it)

The primary reason I don't want things to occur in the same world and just physically isolated locations is that that adds to the overall complexity while not really reducing the local complexity. There's a bunch of worldbuilding that happened for the other side of the world that I had no oversight on, stuff that has already been canonized there which completely contradicts pre-existing canon for the wider Alleyverse. At the moment it hasn't really back-influenced anything but there's no reason it couldn't, people can travel to and from the other side of the world without any meaningful difficulties. Windrunners can fly, Elantrians can teleport, denizens can Alleytravel, Elsecallers can teleport, etc.

Anyone who has arrived in the Alleyverse has some means of long distance, instantaneous travel open to them.

Separating things out such that one cannot interfere with the other in any meaningful way allows us to create isolated sections which can operate completely independently of the larger complexities of the entire multiverse. As things stand now I need to keep reading the other side of the world even though I have no intention of participating, in case something that happens there impacts something over here. Separation allows players to engage with the RP at any level of complexity that they're comfortable with.

[xinoehp512]

As long as travel is possible, then you can just ignore it and say "it happened."

If travel is not possible, then it's a separate RP.

And what part of the other side of the world "completely contradicts pre-existing canon for the wider Alleyverse?"

[Voidus]

8 minutes ago, xinoehp512 said:

As long as travel is possible, then you can just ignore it and say "it happened."

If travel is not possible, then it's a separate RP.

And what part of the other side of the world "completely contradicts pre-existing canon for the wider Alleyverse?"

Exactly, that's why I'd prefer having travel involving  inherent consequences. Time loss is an easy one, if you leave one universe you're going to lose time before you can come back to it. Practically this is likely to mean that a character can't arrive back in Alleycity in the same era that they left it, thus maintaining the individual complexities of each isolated instance until an era reset happens anyway.

Functionally, yes. But then you could argue that the same is true of the other side of the world. It's a separate RP with crossover elements. In the same way that each of the locations in the Reckoners RP was it's own, separate RP, this would be multiple different RPs that just take place in the same continuum. Saves having to garner players, pitch the idea and get a subforum and moderators for other RPs though.

I'd rather not get into a big thing about it, it's somewhat meta and it hasn't influenced anything thus far so the only thing that's been harmed is my brain trying to hold contradictory ideas. But the point is that there are a bunch of things that were just added to the lore for the story, without gaining community awareness and approval. Which is fine if it's completely isolated, but it isn't, so now there are things that have been added to cannon that can influence the rest of the RP that not everyone may be aware of. That adds to the complexity of what players need to know on both sides of the world, whereas if it was isolated then people who didn't want to participate in the plot wouldn't need to know about any of the additional lore and people who only wanted to participate in that plot wouldn't really need to know that much about what's going on in Alleycity.

[xinoehp512]

9 minutes ago, Voidus said:

Exactly, that's why I'd prefer having travel involving  inherent consequences. Time loss is an easy one, if you leave one universe you're going to lose time before you can come back to it. Practically this is likely to mean that a character can't arrive back in Alleycity in the same era that they left it, thus maintaining the individual complexities of each isolated instance until an era reset happens anyway.
 

Y'know, we were thinking about having time differentials on the Alleyplanet that would work in this exact way. To be honest, though, we don't really need them. All we need is a IC reason to deter travel and an OC promise not to interfere.

10 minutes ago, Voidus said:

Functionally, yes. But then you could argue that the same is true of the other side of the world. It's a separate RP with crossover elements. In the same way that each of the locations in the Reckoners RP was it's own, separate RP, this would be multiple different RPs that just take place in the same continuum. Saves having to garner players, pitch the idea and get a subforum and moderators for other RPs though.

If it's the same as the other side of the world, why not just use that instead of adding the complexity of multiple universes?

11 minutes ago, Voidus said:

I'd rather not get into a big thing about it, it's somewhat meta and it hasn't influenced anything thus far so the only thing that's been harmed is my brain trying to hold contradictory ideas.

I'm actually just curious to know what it was. I thought I'd been pretty good with that...

13 minutes ago, Voidus said:

Which is fine if it's completely isolated, but it isn't, so now there are things that have been added to cannon that can influence the rest of the RP that not everyone may be aware of. That adds to the complexity of what players need to know on both sides of the world, whereas if it was isolated then people who didn't want to participate in the plot wouldn't need to know about any of the additional lore and people who only wanted to participate in that plot wouldn't really need to know that much about what's going on in Alleycity.

If you don't want it to interfere, I can keep it on the other side. It's pretty much isolated anyways. It's not that much harder to isolate than a separate universe would be.

[Voidus]

Differences of opinion I suppose, I'd consider multiple universes to be simplifying complexity at the player level, with only a small increase to organisational complexity. It'd also be more easily expandable. If we just shifted half of all active characters and plots to the other side of the world I think we'd just make both of them more complicated, as opposed to spreading things out.

If it's entirely isolated then it functionally is another universe, if we want to make a bunch of those instead then that's fine, but my point is I think that just calling them other universes is more honest with ourselves.

Either way I'll put some polls up soon, I think I've said everything I wanted to say but hopefully other people can put forward their points too.

[xinoehp512]

24 minutes ago, Voidus said:

If it's entirely isolated then it functionally is another universe, if we want to make a bunch of those instead then that's fine, but my point is I think that just calling them other universes is more honest with ourselves.

When I said "keep it on the other side" I meant "keep it out of plots that don't involve it." I can still use them in non-Alleycity plots. If we make entirely separate universes, then the barriers between them will never go down.

 

My main arguments:

Everything that multiple universes can offer can be offered by the other side of the world.

All else equal, keeping things to one world is better than making an uncountable number of them.

These are my logical postulates. Which of these do you have a problem with, and why?

[+Sorana]

I have to admit I'm not sure if I like where this is heading. The moment we come up with different universes, we will add so much more to the setting, and it's already so complicated. Why don't we simply cut down on plots, or agree to have only a limited number of them at the same time? We already have issues with the different magic systems of Brandon interacting with each other, throw halo, destiny and whatever else in the mix and it will be even more complex.

I feel like we shouldn't try to put everything in the same rp, then we have to separate it completely. Have the Alleyverse stay the Alleyverse and whoever wants to have a different setting, can always create a different rp.

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Edit:

What are the reasons behind this proposition? Which problems/ issues do you try to solve? I know I'm no mod, and you probably presented us your best idea, but still, if it's alright, I'd like to know.@Lord Meeker@Voidus

Edited February 19, 2019 by Sorana
added something

[Lord Meeker]

Tbh. One can come close to making a guardian with the Index. But talking over with @Snipexe I figured it be best to put it up to the community. War hammer was approved sonic figured I give it a shot.

[Voidus]

 

1 hour ago, xinoehp512 said:

When I said "keep it on the other side" I meant "keep it out of plots that don't involve it." I can still use them in non-Alleycity plots. If we make entirely separate universes, then the barriers between them will never go down.

 

My main arguments:

Everything that multiple universes can offer can be offered by the other side of the world.

All else equal, keeping things to one world is better than making an uncountable number of them.

These are my logical postulates. Which of these do you have a problem with, and why?

Both actually, as mentioned above I don't think the other side of the world can fill the same requirements.

I also don't think that it's intrinsically better to have one than multiple, that is in essence the entire source of the debate. Assuming that one world is better than multiple to prove that one world is better than multiple is ultimately circular.

 

19 minutes ago, Sorana said:

I have to admit I'm not sure if I like where this is heading. The moment we come up with different universes, we will add so much more to the setting, and it's already so complicated. Why don't we simply cut down on plots, or agree to have only a limited number of them at the same time? We already have issues with the different magic systems of Brandon interacting with each other, throw halo, destiny and whatever else in the mix and it will be even more complex.

I feel like we shouldn't try to put everything in the same rp, then we have to separate it completely. Have the Alleyverse stay the Alleyverse and whoever wants to have a different setting, can always create a different rp.

The main goal of this would be to create several, simplified settings instead of one giant mess. The only change to Alleycity and nearby regions is that occasionally people might vanish to other universes. They wouldn't be able to bring anything back with them that wasn't already a part of the Alleycity setting.

A large number of people have already expressed a preference for some setting variety in the Alleyverse, eg. multiple different technological levels. When these settings can have characters, ideas and items flowing freely back and forth this can create a lot of complexity.

'Ok so I wanted to play in the 'wild west' section of the Alleyverse but apparently there's a guy with a plasma machine gun here? Why?'
'Oh he bought it in sci-fi Alleyverse then Elsecalled over here.'

Keeping them separated would give us some higher overarching complexity but to the player in the setting it becomes far less complex, you only need to worry about the canon and lore of the setting you choose to engage with.

What I want to avoid is going all dictator mod and deleting or merging threads to try to simplify everything, I don't think it's likely to work and it also flies completely in the face of FFRP. We did try to suggest plot simplification at the end of the last era but it hasn't gone too great. The other problem though is character creep. We have enough characters now that it can be really difficult to actually be aware of all of them. Which again, wouldn't really matter if they were all functionally separated, you would only need to know about the characters that share plots with you.

Ultimately the Alleyverse is already a crossroads for different universes, I'm mostly suggesting that we explore those possibilities a little more, and restrict travel at that scale.

[+Sorana]

Thank you.

Well, I don't feel comfortable with that, but in the end that isn't neccessary. I trust you, to have discussed this and to have thought it through. Count me in favour.

[Fatebreaker]

I’m all for multiple universes, I’ve already been loosely operating under the assumption that they were a thing. Plus, then people can go and blow up their own worlds or universes without the DA feeling like it needs to intervene overmuch.

[xinoehp512]

These are all the arguments you've made against me.

17 hours ago, Voidus said:

Multiple universes would make the entire, overarching supersystem more complicated, but with the benefit that any individual plotline or setting could become far, far less complicated. Fewer characters, fewer crossovers, less required reading to understand what is going on. So while our very frequent posters who enjoy having multiple characters will have a bit of added complexity, newer characters can easily slot in without needing to know the entire overarching structure of every plot, character and location.

It's essentially a localised reset of everything, all characters start on the same page 'where the heck are we and what do we do now?', story can develop organically, newer fantastical settings can be introduced without detracting from or influencing other plots, we could experiment with other forms of story telling or different structures. (Could set one of the worlds up to be resource rich and have guilds fight a wargame over who gets to control it)

The primary reason I don't want things to occur in the same world and just physically isolated locations is that that adds to the overall complexity while not really reducing the local complexity. There's a bunch of worldbuilding that happened for the other side of the world that I had no oversight on, stuff that has already been canonized there which completely contradicts pre-existing canon for the wider Alleyverse. At the moment it hasn't really back-influenced anything but there's no reason it couldn't, people can travel to and from the other side of the world without any meaningful difficulties. Windrunners can fly, Elantrians can teleport, denizens can Alleytravel, Elsecallers can teleport, etc.

Anyone who has arrived in the Alleyverse has some means of long distance, instantaneous travel open to them.

Separating things out such that one cannot interfere with the other in any meaningful way allows us to create isolated sections which can operate completely independently of the larger complexities of the entire multiverse. As things stand now I need to keep reading the other side of the world even though I have no intention of participating, in case something that happens there impacts something over here. Separation allows players to engage with the RP at any level of complexity that they're comfortable with.

 

16 hours ago, Voidus said:

Exactly, that's why I'd prefer having travel involving  inherent consequences. Time loss is an easy one, if you leave one universe you're going to lose time before you can come back to it. Practically this is likely to mean that a character can't arrive back in Alleycity in the same era that they left it, thus maintaining the individual complexities of each isolated instance until an era reset happens anyway.

Functionally, yes. But then you could argue that the same is true of the other side of the world. It's a separate RP with crossover elements. In the same way that each of the locations in the Reckoners RP was it's own, separate RP, this would be multiple different RPs that just take place in the same continuum. Saves having to garner players, pitch the idea and get a subforum and moderators for other RPs though.

I'd rather not get into a big thing about it, it's somewhat meta and it hasn't influenced anything thus far so the only thing that's been harmed is my brain trying to hold contradictory ideas. But the point is that there are a bunch of things that were just added to the lore for the story, without gaining community awareness and approval. Which is fine if it's completely isolated, but it isn't, so now there are things that have been added to cannon that can influence the rest of the RP that not everyone may be aware of. That adds to the complexity of what players need to know on both sides of the world, whereas if it was isolated then people who didn't want to participate in the plot wouldn't need to know about any of the additional lore and people who only wanted to participate in that plot wouldn't really need to know that much about what's going on in Alleycity.

 

16 hours ago, Voidus said:

Differences of opinion I suppose, I'd consider multiple universes to be simplifying complexity at the player level, with only a small increase to organisational complexity. It'd also be more easily expandable. If we just shifted half of all active characters and plots to the other side of the world I think we'd just make both of them more complicated, as opposed to spreading things out.

If it's entirely isolated then it functionally is another universe, if we want to make a bunch of those instead then that's fine, but my point is I think that just calling them other universes is more honest with ourselves.

Either way I'll put some polls up soon, I think I've said everything I wanted to say but hopefully other people can put forward their points too.

 

7 hours ago, Voidus said:

 

Both actually, as mentioned above I don't think the other side of the world can fill the same requirements.

I also don't think that it's intrinsically better to have one than multiple, that is in essence the entire source of the debate. Assuming that one world is better than multiple to prove that one world is better than multiple is ultimately circular.
This is less important, but my argument was not circular. All else equal, keeping things to one world is better than making an uncountable number of them. I said "All else equal"; the first statement was supposed to prove that. But it wasn't very clear, (nor even a wholly accurate depiction on reflection) so it's understandable you would be confused.

 

The main goal of this would be to create several, simplified settings instead of one giant mess. The only change to Alleycity and nearby regions is that occasionally people might vanish to other universes. They wouldn't be able to bring anything back with them that wasn't already a part of the Alleycity setting.

A large number of people have already expressed a preference for some setting variety in the Alleyverse, eg. multiple different technological levels. When these settings can have characters, ideas and items flowing freely back and forth this can create a lot of complexity.

'Ok so I wanted to play in the 'wild west' section of the Alleyverse but apparently there's a guy with a plasma machine gun here? Why?'
'Oh he bought it in sci-fi Alleyverse then Elsecalled over here.'

Keeping them separated would give us some higher overarching complexity but to the player in the setting it becomes far less complex, you only need to worry about the canon and lore of the setting you choose to engage with.

What I want to avoid is going all dictator mod and deleting or merging threads to try to simplify everything, I don't think it's likely to work and it also flies completely in the face of FFRP. We did try to suggest plot simplification at the end of the last era but it hasn't gone too great. The other problem though is character creep. We have enough characters now that it can be really difficult to actually be aware of all of them. Which again, wouldn't really matter if they were all functionally separated, you would only need to know about the characters that share plots with you.

Ultimately the Alleyverse is already a crossroads for different universes, I'm mostly suggesting that we explore those possibilities a little more, and restrict travel at that scale.

Quote

The primary reason I don't want things to occur in the same world and just physically isolated locations is that that adds to the overall complexity while not really reducing the local complexity. There's a bunch of worldbuilding that happened for the other side of the world that I had no oversight on, stuff that has already been canonized there which completely contradicts pre-existing canon for the wider Alleyverse. At the moment it hasn't really back-influenced anything but there's no reason it couldn't, people can travel to and from the other side of the world without any meaningful difficulties. Windrunners can fly, Elantrians can teleport, denizens can Alleytravel, Elsecallers can teleport, etc.

Separating things out such that one cannot interfere with the other in any meaningful way allows us to create isolated sections which can operate completely independently of the larger complexities of the entire multiverse. As things stand now I need to keep reading the other side of the world even though I have no intention of participating, in case something that happens there impacts something over here. Separation allows players to engage with the RP at any level of complexity that they're comfortable with.

This is only place where you say that you don't think that the other side of the world can fulfill requirements. Is the main issue for you one of separation, then? If you want a world completely removed from everything, create a new RP.

You mention using the Alleyverse as a crossroads universe. This is a sound idea; let different RP's meet at the alleycity, without interfering. I am not opposed to this.

You also suggest separating out characters into more separate plots. This is not a bad idea either; less complexity is a good thing. I am not opposed to this either.

What I do have a problem with is you using the multiple universes idea to try and solve this problem when a perfectly good solution already exists in the form of the other side of the world. Complexity can be limited to any amount you desire, and could potentially be changed as things progress. So what is the issue with this idea?

 

 

[old man moomba]

2 minutes ago, xinoehp512 said:

These are all the arguments you've made against me.

 

 

 

This is only place where you say that you don't think that the other side of the world can fulfill requirements. Is the main issue for you one of separation, then? If you want a world completely removed from everything, create a new RP.

You mention using the Alleyverse as a crossroads universe. This is a sound idea; let different RP's meet at the alleycity, without interfering. I am not opposed to this.

You also suggest separating out characters into more separate plots. This is not a bad idea either; less complexity is a good thing. I am not opposed to this either.

What I do have a problem with is you using the multiple universes idea to try and solve this problem when a perfectly good solution already exists in the form of the other side of the world. Complexity can be limited to any amount you desire, and could potentially be changed as things progress. So what is the issue with this idea?

 

 

IMO, the other side of the planet is a bit easier to get to than a totally different universe. The other problem that I see is the fact that there may not be exactly what we want over there... I mean, what if we want cities or fortresses. The ecosystem also isn't super variable. I don't know if I'm making any sense here, but I think that in terms of variability and separation, alternate universes would be a good idea. 

 

[kenod]

Another issue with the other side of the world is that it if you want unique settings you can only create something really small. You can't have larger histories or countries as part of the world building, unless the alleyplanet has the surface area of Jupiter. Otherwise the first setting to have flying vehicles with any decent speed can go and explore everything, ruining the different, independent settings that existed at the time.

[xinoehp512]

I wasn't envisioning anything that large existing. There are natural barriers that prevent travel from happening.