The Chat Thread

[+Ark1002]

No, there's a system involving that.

[xinoehp512]

2 hours ago, Voidus said:

It means there would be a time gap before they could return to other threads potentially, if the other threads were in a different setting. If this is due to pacing issues or something then some potential retconning can occur, this is more designed to prevent characters who just want to be involved in every plot from jumping around by adding consequences to choices. (Which is after all what gives choices meaning)
 

This isn't about interference as much as it is complexity and overcrowding.
 

That's exactly the point we disagree on, simply stating it again isn't going to be super convincing. I've laid out the reasons why I think it would be beneficial, if you disagree with any specific points please mention them.

The fact that it's not separated nicely into individual sub-regions. The same reason I don't think we can have all of these settings on the Alleycity side of the world.
 

We won't be creating more subforums, there's too much admin work required for that and a bunch more complexity around roles and responsibilities. (I'd have to moderate all of them, then make suggestions of local mods for all of them, then handle any absences or departures by asking for replacement mods) If any of the other settings got large enough to justify it then it might be possible.

 

Agreed, minimal transfer is preferred but I'd like to leave it a little open for character growth and as mentioned not everyone is going to feel like they fit in every setting so they may need to change after exploring the setting and their character a bit more.
 

I'd rather avoid stories based around drug usage, this seems way too likely to make the RP inappropriate for hosting on 17S. Some vague allusions or off screen stuff might be ok but not making an actual mechanic for it in the RP.

1. I don't think it's so much of a problem that we need to enforce it, do we? Just advise specific cases.

2. I thought you were saying that both of those were caused by interference. Did you think I meant something different from 'characters stepping in and out'?

3. If we want complete separation, we make separate RPs. Why would we label something Alleyverse if it's never going to affect anything in the actual Alleyverse?

4. Why would that be a limiting factor?

5. I knew this was a long shot. Oh well. I have a feeling suggesting putting them in general RP wouldn't go over too well either?

 

The worst case scenario (in my opinion) is people creating a new universe for every plot, leaving it once done, and then never using it again. People aren't going to spend time on worldbuilding if it's just going to be thrown out the window.

[Darth Woodrack]

I actually agree with Xinoe. On everything.

I get that having characters randomly flick around can be confusing, and irritating, but fro characters like Dusk, Ambrosia, and the other rich people, they have money, and resources, and they can move quickly. The only real limit we should have, in my opinion, is plausibility. Like, a beggar wouldn't suddenly appear on the other side of the world. Rping a bit of travel would be nice, but I don't know if this is a real, giant problem. People who want to participate in multiple things, that aren't both really demanding, have a character flip between them. I mean, I would find it annoying if I can't hold on to the hunters in Hunt for The Jackal, or the Jackalites, but if someone needing their character elsewhere, I would understand. I have also put characters in places just so I would have something to do. Like, I had Walker show up at Arks and Itiahs duel because I wanted him somewhere, and my own duel with Ark couldn't be done yet. Just to recap, I don't know if this is really such a problem that we need to create a rule that comes with punishments. 

On a idea that I think will please both parties; A single character can only participate in a set number of plots per week. May this be 3, or 5, or 10, I don't know, but there will be a limit. If they reach this limit, they have to stay at this plot, and if they leave it, a mod talks to them.

Note: I do not mean thread hopping. Like the traders union, that plot moved threads. I mean going between different plots, not threads.

[MacThorstenson]

2 hours ago, xinoehp512 said:

3. If we want complete separation, we make separate RPs. Why would we label something Alleyverse if it's never going to affect anything in the actual Alleyverse?

Because it is a part of the same set of settings. They are a bunch of universes that are influenced by the DA and the alleys and whatever other guilds want to get involved. The only difference is the types of stories that people want to tell. 

In addition, why does Brandon call some of his short cosmere stories cosmere? Most of them are never going to affect the larger cosmere. 

Like shadows for silence, it’s stated that the characters are probably not coming back, and certainly aren’t going to affect the big cosmere crossover that is going to happen. 

Its all part of one galaxy. Just like all of these would be part of the alleyverse’s. 

2 hours ago, xinoehp512 said:

4. Why would that be a limiting factor?

Because for certain stories to be plausible you need a certain amount of space. For example, there is no way one could reaslistically set up a science fiction Based society on the other side of the world.

In addition, it would be unrealistic to assume that there is absolutely no society or group on the other side of the world that hasn’t been discovered by someone. 

2 hours ago, xinoehp512 said:

The worst case scenario (in my opinion) is people creating a new universe for every plot, leaving it once done, and then never using it again. People aren't going to spend time on worldbuilding if it's just going to be thrown out the window.

Agreed.

That would be terrible, that’s why people wouldn’t be allowed to create universes Willy nilly. At the very least they would need to show that there is enough support for a couple of different plots or at least enough people willing to participate to warrant creating a new universe. 

EDIT: @Darth Woodrack I completely agree that the only limit should be plausibility, unfortunately the only characters who could plausibly move around to flip between threads quickly are Mac, Ambrosia, and Walker.

Realistically, even if you have a ton of money you won’t be able to get across the city in less than 15 minutes. Unless otherwise stated, most interactions wouldn’t realistically take longer than 5 or 10.

There isn’t really a plausible way for people to switch between threads unless they can teleport instantly, or planned to arrive a head of time. The interactions are too short for that kind of thing. 

Edited February 21, 2019 by MacThorstenson

[Pagliacci]

Um... hello.

[+Sorana]

1 hour ago, Pagliacci said:

Um... hello.

Hi!

Would you like to join?

Edited February 21, 2019 by Sorana

[Pagliacci]

I'm considering it yes. Not too sure though. 

[+Sorana]

Just now, Pagliacci said:

I'm considering it yes. Not too sure though. 

If you have questions, just ask them! I'll do my best to answer them.

Apart from that, you can always give it a try, and if it doesn't work for you, then that's alright.

[Pagliacci]

How much time would I have to put in? (I don't mean to sound lazy, I just want to make sure I can commit the appropriate amount of time to this)

 

Might I ask how you got started @Sorana? Just out of curiosity.

[+Sorana]

Just now, Pagliacci said:

How much time would I have to put in? (I don't mean to sound lazy, I just want to make sure I can commit the appropriate amount of time to this)

You can put as much time in it as you want to. The more characters you have, the more time you need. It's hard to really give an estimate, as it depends a bit on the thread/ plot you're into and how fast that one is paced, but I guess half an hour works. But then it's not like you have to post everyday. We have a lot players, that only post now and then, and it works just fine for them. It really depends on how much time you want to invest. Though I have to admit, that I am part of those that spend more time here, at least to check if something happened. Sorry, that's a bit vague.

6 minutes ago, Pagliacci said:

Might I ask how you got started @Sorana? Just out of curiosity.

Sure. I stumbled across Lord Meeker and it ended with me joining the Ghostbloods, without knowing there was also a rp connected to the guilds.

[Voidus]

12 hours ago, xinoehp512 said:

1. I don't think it's so much of a problem that we need to enforce it, do we? Just advise specific cases.

2. I thought you were saying that both of those were caused by interference. Did you think I meant something different from 'characters stepping in and out'?

3. If we want complete separation, we make separate RPs. Why would we label something Alleyverse if it's never going to affect anything in the actual Alleyverse?

4. Why would that be a limiting factor?

5. I knew this was a long shot. Oh well. I have a feeling suggesting putting them in general RP wouldn't go over too well either?

 

The worst case scenario (in my opinion) is people creating a new universe for every plot, leaving it once done, and then never using it again. People aren't going to spend time on worldbuilding if it's just going to be thrown out the window.

1. Character complexity becomes too diverse, there are a number of characters who are sort-of involved in most major plots concurrently. This creates both temporal confusion (What order do these interactions happen in) and also a more complex backstory but the various parts of the backstory aren't really linked and don't really form complex relationships with other characters. Personally I'd really appreciate having more deep and detailed character relationships. There are a couple of these kinds of relationships that have begun to grow recently but in general character relationships are static because characters move around too much and aren't consist with their goals or who they're working with to meet those goals.

2. Interference just isn't the term I'd use. If we want to keep diverse settings then interference is an issue, but as of yet the other side of the world is the only setting that could really interfere with things. Complexity does increase from thread-hoping but overcrowding doesn't really.

3. Mac answered this about as well as I can, just because something isn't constantly affecting the Alleyverse doesn't mean it should be separated and kept at arms length.

4. Again, as mentioned. But ultimately, any setting needs space to take place, so the less space available the less settings you can have. Basically the other side of the world doesn't offer substantially more space or separation than the Alleycity side does so it doesn't offer any meaningful benefit as a location for multiple settings. You can separate one side of the world from the other, which means you could have one isolated setting there, but if you create more than one then while those settings would be isolated from the Alleycity they wouldn't be isolated from each other.

5. Suggest whatever you want, I will cut off the idea that we can just create infinite subforums because it's not as easy as that, but that's a technical limitation it has nothing to do with my preferences. If people want these to exist but be in the regular RP forum then that is what will happen. The Alleyverse is community-driven.

Creation of settings would be monitored initially and potentially be restricted ongoing, I agree that creating a bunch of settings and not using them would be a waste, but they likely wouldn't get enough community approval to be created if they were just going to be throw away so hopefully a moot point.
 

11 hours ago, Darth Woodrack said:

I actually agree with Xinoe. On everything.

I get that having characters randomly flick around can be confusing, and irritating, but fro characters like Dusk, Ambrosia, and the other rich people, they have money, and resources, and they can move quickly. The only real limit we should have, in my opinion, is plausibility. Like, a beggar wouldn't suddenly appear on the other side of the world. Rping a bit of travel would be nice, but I don't know if this is a real, giant problem. People who want to participate in multiple things, that aren't both really demanding, have a character flip between them. I mean, I would find it annoying if I can't hold on to the hunters in Hunt for The Jackal, or the Jackalites, but if someone needing their character elsewhere, I would understand. I have also put characters in places just so I would have something to do. Like, I had Walker show up at Arks and Itiahs duel because I wanted him somewhere, and my own duel with Ark couldn't be done yet. Just to recap, I don't know if this is really such a problem that we need to create a rule that comes with punishments. 

On a idea that I think will please both parties; A single character can only participate in a set number of plots per week. May this be 3, or 5, or 10, I don't know, but there will be a limit. If they reach this limit, they have to stay at this plot, and if they leave it, a mod talks to them.

Note: I do not mean thread hopping. Like the traders union, that plot moved threads. I mean going between different plots, not threads.

The problem isn't necessarily plausibility but structural integrity of the RP, I've seen RPs collapse because everything became too complex and overcrowded and it just devolved into a mess, and I'd rather that didn't happen to the Alleyverse. Also as mentioned above, I think the frequent thread-hopping is inhibiting character growth and the formation of relationships.

Consequences aren't the same as a punishment, arguably the entire point of RP is the exploration of consequences of actions. Characters become interesting by the choices they make, if choices have no consequence then they are meaningless and thus not very interesting. Characters can't be everywhere at all times so where do they choose to be? And why?

Character limits are likely going to be way too hard to keep track of.

[xinoehp512]

12 hours ago, MacThorstenson said:

Because it is a part of the same set of settings. They are a bunch of universes that are influenced by the DA and the alleys and whatever other guilds want to get involved. The only difference is the types of stories that people want to tell. 

In addition, why does Brandon call some of his short cosmere stories cosmere? Most of them are never going to affect the larger cosmere. 

Like shadows for silence, it’s stated that the characters are probably not coming back, and certainly aren’t going to affect the big cosmere crossover that is going to happen. 

Its all part of one galaxy. Just like all of these would be part of the alleyverse’s. 

Because for certain stories to be plausible you need a certain amount of space. For example, there is no way one could reaslistically set up a science fiction Based society on the other side of the world.

In addition, it would be unrealistic to assume that there is absolutely no society or group on the other side of the world that hasn’t been discovered by someone. 

Agreed.

That would be terrible, that’s why people wouldn’t be allowed to create universes Willy nilly. At the very least they would need to show that there is enough support for a couple of different plots or at least enough people willing to participate to warrant creating a new universe. 

EDIT: @Darth Woodrack I completely agree that the only limit should be plausibility, unfortunately the only characters who could plausibly move around to flip between threads quickly are Mac, Ambrosia, and Walker.

Realistically, even if you have a ton of money you won’t be able to get across the city in less than 15 minutes. Unless otherwise stated, most interactions wouldn’t realistically take longer than 5 or 10.

There isn’t really a plausible way for people to switch between threads unless they can teleport instantly, or planned to arrive a head of time. The interactions are too short for that kind of thing. 

 

1. So you're saying that the universes would exist only to be acted upon?

2-4. This isn't true. The characters might not show up, but the settings are vitally important; for instance, Nazh and his maybe-a-shade gun, or Mraize's Aviar. With complete separation, neither of those things would be allowed, or even that "cosmere crossover" you refer to. Maybe we aren't in agreement about what 'complete separation' means.

5. There is space. Barely any of the other side has been explored. You can't have planetary sized conflicts, but that's never what was intended for the other side. If extreme-scale conflicts are what people want, then separate universes make sense for that.

6. Why not? No one's ever explored there before.

7. Universe creation will be regulated, then. Good to know.

2 hours ago, Voidus said:

1. Character complexity becomes too diverse, there are a number of characters who are sort-of involved in most major plots concurrently. This creates both temporal confusion (What order do these interactions happen in) and also a more complex backstory but the various parts of the backstory aren't really linked and don't really form complex relationships with other characters. Personally I'd really appreciate having more deep and detailed character relationships. There are a couple of these kinds of relationships that have begun to grow recently but in general character relationships are static because characters move around too much and aren't consist with their goals or who they're working with to meet those goals.

2. Interference just isn't the term I'd use. If we want to keep diverse settings then interference is an issue, but as of yet the other side of the world is the only setting that could really interfere with things. Complexity does increase from thread-hoping but overcrowding doesn't really.

3. Mac answered this about as well as I can, just because something isn't constantly affecting the Alleyverse doesn't mean it should be separated and kept at arms length.

4. Again, as mentioned. But ultimately, any setting needs space to take place, so the less space available the less settings you can have. Basically the other side of the world doesn't offer substantially more space or separation than the Alleycity side does so it doesn't offer any meaningful benefit as a location for multiple settings. You can separate one side of the world from the other, which means you could have one isolated setting there, but if you create more than one then while those settings would be isolated from the Alleycity they wouldn't be isolated from each other.

5. Suggest whatever you want, I will cut off the idea that we can just create infinite subforums because it's not as easy as that, but that's a technical limitation it has nothing to do with my preferences. If people want these to exist but be in the regular RP forum then that is what will happen. The Alleyverse is community-driven.

Creation of settings would be monitored initially and potentially be restricted ongoing, I agree that creating a bunch of settings and not using them would be a waste, but they likely wouldn't get enough community approval to be created if they were just going to be throw away so hopefully a moot point.
 

The problem isn't necessarily plausibility but structural integrity of the RP, I've seen RPs collapse because everything became too complex and overcrowded and it just devolved into a mess, and I'd rather that didn't happen to the Alleyverse. Also as mentioned above, I think the frequent thread-hopping is inhibiting character growth and the formation of relationships.

Consequences aren't the same as a punishment, arguably the entire point of RP is the exploration of consequences of actions. Characters become interesting by the choices they make, if choices have no consequence then they are meaningless and thus not very interesting. Characters can't be everywhere at all times so where do they choose to be? And why?

Character limits are likely going to be way too hard to keep track of.

1. That does sound like a problem, but again, I don't see this occurring. Could you perhaps give an example?

2. What does cause overcrowding, then? Lack of plots?

3. So you agree that the universes should not be complete

4. Do you think that the Alleycity side takes up half the planet? That was never what was intended. (In fact, I doubt the current "Alleyverse Map" even shows the whole Alleycontinent). Sorry if the phrasing "other side" was misleading.

5. What do you think about the issue, personally? 

[old man moomba]

13 hours ago, MacThorstenson said:

EDIT: @Darth Woodrack I completely agree that the only limit should be plausibility, unfortunately the only characters who could plausibly move around to flip between threads quickly are Mac, Ambrosia, and Walker.

Realistically, even if you have a ton of money you won’t be able to get across the city in less than 15 minutes. Unless otherwise stated, most interactions wouldn’t realistically take longer than 5 or 10.

There isn’t really a plausible way for people to switch between threads unless they can teleport instantly, or planned to arrive a head of time. The interactions are too short for that kind of thing. 

*cough cough*  Ciera  *cough cough*

[MacThorstenson]

3 hours ago, xinoehp512 said:

1. So you're saying that the universes would exist only to be acted upon?

I’m not sure what you mean by this. I was saying that they are all apart of this RP because they all share a similar backdrop of being influenced by the guilds. 

3 hours ago, xinoehp512 said:

2-4. This isn't true. The characters might not show up, but the settings are vitally important; for instance, Nazh and his maybe-a-shade gun, or Mraize's Aviar. With complete separation, neither of those things would be allowed, or even that "cosmere crossover" you refer to. Maybe we aren't in agreement about what 'complete separation' means.

I don’t think I have ever advocated for complete separation, if I did then I wasn’t saying what I meant. Obviously there are some common ties between the universes because characters can move between them, with difficulty, in addition the different guilds could each have a presence in the difference universes. 

However most of the world building would be separate.

Also, your points about the aviar and Nazh are valid, but none of them impact the story in anyway whatsoever. You don’t need to be aware of the larger cosmere in order to understand mraize and nazh and their roles in the books. It’s all self contained as of now. Thats what we are aiming for, a group of self contained universes that you dont need to understand the larger multiverse to take a part in. 

3 hours ago, xinoehp512 said:

5. There is space. Barely any of the other side has been explored. You can't have planetary sized conflicts, but that's never what was intended for the other side. If extreme-scale conflicts are what people want, then separate universes make sense for that.

6. Why not? No one's ever explored there before.

I don’t actually think there is. As of now, the most popular alternate setting is sci-fi, that is almost always inter planetary, which is something that the other side of the world isn’t built for. 

In addition, the voidus literally created the world, the DA definitely at least keeps tabs on what’s over there so we can spike it if needed. 

[Darth Woodrack]

Also Dusk, Thel, and anyone else with vast resources could fly in a fast plane and be there quickly. And Dusk has the teleportation disk, Jackal has Wraith, Wraith is Wraith, and there are minor time skips between threads.

If an rp collapses because it is to complex, than they can halt the rping for a short period of time and fix it. I just don't actually see the problems you are pointing to. We are doing well, and the rp isn't falling apart. Why is this a problem that needs to be fixed by moderator action? People move around, and there characters need to be in certain places, or a new plot starts that they want to participate in. 

If you want to block a character from plot hopping, you are blocking that character from making new connections, and doing new things. People move around, and they can do it quickly. That is just how the Alleyverse works. Hand wave stuff is used because they need a certain thing to happen, and logically, their character wouldn't be able to do it.

[xinoehp512]

7 minutes ago, MacThorstenson said:

I’m not sure what you mean by this. I was saying that they are all apart of this RP because they all share a similar backdrop of being influenced by the guilds. 

To clarify, are you advocating that Alleyverse stuff will influence the universes, but not the other way around ever?

16 minutes ago, MacThorstenson said:

I don’t think I have ever advocated for complete separation, if I did then I wasn’t saying what I meant. Obviously there are some common ties between the universes because characters can move between them, with difficulty, in addition the different guilds could each have a presence in the difference universes. 

However most of the world building would be separate.

You were arguing against my point that was arguing against complete separation. It's a valid interpretation.

16 minutes ago, MacThorstenson said:

Also, your points about the aviar and Nazh are valid, but none of them impact the story in anyway whatsoever. You don’t need to be aware of the larger cosmere in order to understand mraize and nazh and their roles in the books. It’s all self contained as of now. Thats what we are aiming for, a group of self contained universes that you dont need to understand the larger multiverse to take a part in. 

I am in a state of confusion. What exactly do you want to keep separate between the worlds? Characters? Plots? Something else?

21 minutes ago, MacThorstenson said:

I don’t actually think there is. As of now, the most popular alternate setting is sci-fi, that is almost always inter planetary, which is something that the other side of the world isn’t built for. 

As I said,

3 hours ago, xinoehp512 said:

You can't have planetary sized conflicts, but that's never what was intended for the other side. If extreme-scale conflicts are what people want, then separate universes make sense for that.

Extreme-scale worldbuilding too, if that's what you're confused about.

24 minutes ago, MacThorstenson said:

In addition, the voidus literally created the world, the DA definitely at least keeps tabs on what’s over there so we can spike it if needed. 

This has no effect on the story, though.

[Darth Woodrack]

Ummm... How did Xinoe quote something Mac said, before he said it? Am I just glitching? What is this strange floating creatur that is directly next to me... CONFUSION SPREN!!!!

[Voidus]

6 hours ago, xinoehp512 said:

1. That does sound like a problem, but again, I don't see this occurring. Could you perhaps give an example?

2. What does cause overcrowding, then? Lack of plots?

3. So you agree that the universes should not be complete

4. Do you think that the Alleycity side takes up half the planet? That was never what was intended. (In fact, I doubt the current "Alleyverse Map" even shows the whole Alleycontinent). Sorry if the phrasing "other side" was misleading.

5. What do you think about the issue, personally? 

1. A specific example of what? Characters flitting between multiple plots? I think it'd be harder to find an example of a character who didn't do that. Some people are particularly good at tying the multiple plots they take part in together and having recurring issues across them, but a number of characters just basically show up when interesting things are happening, maybe engage in a brief fight then go find another interesting thing that is happening.
2. A growing player base mostly, we just have too many players, many of whom have multiple characters.
4. Yes indeed, that's generally what has been assumed by sides. Anything on the same hemisphere is going to be too easy to access to be meaningfully separated in any way.
5. It's not particularly relevant, I'm just one person. But for the record I prefer keeping things in one subforum when it's the same player base and the same general concept in a related universe. The same reason all the Reckoner RP threads are in the same subforum, we didn't separate them out just because some locations didn't have frequent crossover with the others.
 

 

2 hours ago, Darth Woodrack said:

Also Dusk, Thel, and anyone else with vast resources could fly in a fast plane and be there quickly. And Dusk has the teleportation disk, Jackal has Wraith, Wraith is Wraith, and there are minor time skips between threads.

If an rp collapses because it is to complex, than they can halt the rping for a short period of time and fix it. I just don't actually see the problems you are pointing to. We are doing well, and the rp isn't falling apart. Why is this a problem that needs to be fixed by moderator action? People move around, and there characters need to be in certain places, or a new plot starts that they want to participate in. 

If you want to block a character from plot hopping, you are blocking that character from making new connections, and doing new things. People move around, and they can do it quickly. That is just how the Alleyverse works. Hand wave stuff is used because they need a certain thing to happen, and logically, their character wouldn't be able to do it.

If an rp collapses it's usually too late to fix it. Like the Reckoners RP it might get rebooted a year down the line but once you lose momentum trust me when I say it's incredibly difficult to get it back.

This isn't a problem that needs moderator action, that's why this is a community discussion and not a moderation declaration. This is an ongoing discussion that has received support from enough people that I think it needs to be considered. I'm calling out things that I see developing ahead of time, we've had a very sudden, very large influx of characters and players this era and based on personal experience I think that issues are going to crop up. I also think these issues already occur to some extent as mentioned, just because something has always been done that way doesn't mean that's the best way.

Characters are limited by their choices, that's how story works. So yes you're blocking them from doing some things, because they're doing other things instead. Characters can't be in all places at all times doing all things or story has no tension, meaning or purpose. Now I know that some people don't RP for the story as much as the combat stuff but I think that a majority of players have at least some interest in it.
Spoilers for multiple movies and books below, none are too recent though:

 

Spoiler

Batman: The Dark Knight - Batman can't save two people at the same time, thus accidentally creating the villain of two-face and losing someone important to him, causing him to ultimately give up vigilantism for a long period of time, experiences emotional turmoil and is confronted for years with the decision.

Lord of the Rings - Frodo can't just suddenly be in mordor with the ring after receiving it and drop it in, so he goes on an epic quest, realizes the frailty of the human ego and how easily it can be corrupted, makes a sacrifice to continue alone so as not to hurt others, reluctantly admits his selfishness of abandoning the others without confronting them, grows his friendship with Sam even stronger, faces new threats, meets Golum and develops a complex relationship with him, etc., etc.
(Literally the entire story here is about the journey not the destination, journeys are important)

Star wars: A new hope - Luke chooses to go chasing droids on his own and set out for an adventure, as such he is not at home when his aunt and uncle are killed. This causes him grief and provides his motivation to pursue their attackers. This is the inciting incident for the entire trilogy.

Mistborn: Kelsier and Vin arrive too late to stop the rebels from being nearly wiped out, this sets up the entire end of the book and ultimately TLRs downfall. Thousands die defending Luthadel while Vin is absent before she manages to return to defend the city from the Koloss, this changes Sazed's character drastically during the next book, forcing a crisis of faith and ultimately leading him to become Harmony.

Stormlight: The battle at the tower, if all the character could just hop to another thread and be out of their then Sadeas' betrayal has no real consequence, it diminishes his character and fails to set up many plots later on. Kaladin doesn't get freed from being a slave, likely doesn't end up becoming a radiant. Literally the entire war on the Shattered plains is only going because people can't be everywhere they want to be at once with no consequences.

 

[MacThorstenson]

32 minutes ago, Darth Woodrack said:

Ummm... How did Xinoe quote something Mac said, before he said it? Am I just glitching? What is this strange floating creatur that is directly next to me... CONFUSION SPREN!!!!

Sorry, it posted that twice. It’s fixed now.

3 hours ago, xinoehp512 said:

To clarify, are you advocating that Alleyverse stuff will influence the universes, but not the other way around ever?

You were arguing against my point that was arguing against complete separation. It's a valid interpretation.

I am in a state of confusion. What exactly do you want to keep separate between the worlds? Characters? Plots? Something else?

As I said,

Extreme-scale worldbuilding too, if that's what you're confused about.

This has no effect on the story, though.

1. I don’t actually think of that like that.

The guilds are a part of the entire setting. I wouldn’t say that this is alleyverse stuff influencing that the other stuff. I would say that they are shared elements of the entire backstory. 

For alleyverse stuff to influence the other universes it would need to be something like laws from the alleycity government applying there, or stuff from the other side of the world coming over, or specific pieces of alleyverse history impacting general history on that side (like the 7 day war decimating their economy). The guilds having a presence there is like all magic in the cosmere coming from investiture.

2. I understand, I was just trying to clear that up. 

3. I want to keep characters separate, plots separate, and enough world building separate that you don’t have to read anything about the different universes to understand what’s going on in a specific universe.

Ideally everything would be separate (to reduce complexity), but there would need to be some form of exchange because there will be some opportunity for characters to move to the new worlds, at least initially. The general public would probably be aware of the multiverses. 

4-5. I was just pointing out that the type of story that it appears people want can’t be done on the other side of the world, which lends support to the multiverse idea. 

6. My point in putting this there is that any sizable society that forms would be heavily influenced by the DA, which can be limiting on whatever stories you want to tell. 

[Darth Woodrack]

4 hours ago, Voidus said:

1. A specific example of what? Characters flitting between multiple plots? I think it'd be harder to find an example of a character who didn't do that. Some people are particularly good at tying the multiple plots they take part in together and having recurring issues across them, but a number of characters just basically show up when interesting things are happening, maybe engage in a brief fight then go find another interesting thing that is happening.
2. A growing player base mostly, we just have too many players, many of whom have multiple characters.
4. Yes indeed, that's generally what has been assumed by sides. Anything on the same hemisphere is going to be too easy to access to be meaningfully separated in any way.
5. It's not particularly relevant, I'm just one person. But for the record I prefer keeping things in one subforum when it's the same player base and the same general concept in a related universe. The same reason all the Reckoner RP threads are in the same subforum, we didn't separate them out just because some locations didn't have frequent crossover with the others.
 

 

If an rp collapses it's usually too late to fix it. Like the Reckoners RP it might get rebooted a year down the line but once you lose momentum trust me when I say it's incredibly difficult to get it back.

This isn't a problem that needs moderator action, that's why this is a community discussion and not a moderation declaration. This is an ongoing discussion that has received support from enough people that I think it needs to be considered. I'm calling out things that I see developing ahead of time, we've had a very sudden, very large influx of characters and players this era and based on personal experience I think that issues are going to crop up. I also think these issues already occur to some extent as mentioned, just because something has always been done that way doesn't mean that's the best way.

Characters are limited by their choices, that's how story works. So yes you're blocking them from doing some things, because they're doing other things instead. Characters can't be in all places at all times doing all things or story has no tension, meaning or purpose. Now I know that some people don't RP for the story as much as the combat stuff but I think that a majority of players have at least some interest in it.
Spoilers for multiple movies and books below, none are too recent though:

 

Spoiler

Batman: The Dark Knight - Batman can't save two people at the same time, thus accidentally creating the villain of two-face and losing someone important to him, causing him to ultimately give up vigilantism for a long period of time, experiences emotional turmoil and is confronted for years with the decision.

Lord of the Rings - Frodo can't just suddenly be in mordor with the ring after receiving it and drop it in, so he goes on an epic quest, realizes the frailty of the human ego and how easily it can be corrupted, makes a sacrifice to continue alone so as not to hurt others, reluctantly admits his selfishness of abandoning the others without confronting them, grows his friendship with Sam even stronger, faces new threats, meets Golum and develops a complex relationship with him, etc., etc.
(Literally the entire story here is about the journey not the destination, journeys are important)

Star wars: A new hope - Luke chooses to go chasing droids on his own and set out for an adventure, as such he is not at home when his aunt and uncle are killed. This causes him grief and provides his motivation to pursue their attackers. This is the inciting incident for the entire trilogy.

Mistborn: Kelsier and Vin arrive too late to stop the rebels from being nearly wiped out, this sets up the entire end of the book and ultimately TLRs downfall. Thousands die defending Luthadel while Vin is absent before she manages to return to defend the city from the Koloss, this changes Sazed's character drastically during the next book, forcing a crisis of faith and ultimately leading him to become Harmony.

Stormlight: The battle at the tower, if all the character could just hop to another thread and be out of their then Sadeas' betrayal has no real consequence, it diminishes his character and fails to set up many plots later on. Kaladin doesn't get freed from being a slave, likely doesn't end up becoming a radiant. Literally the entire war on the Shattered plains is only going because people can't be everywhere they want to be at once with no consequences.

 

So, I think you misunderstood me, or something like that. You still have to rp leaving, you just don't have to rp the travel. To the LotR thing, Frodo had to do that becuase there is a large jounery. If they plausibly couldn't get out, and then leave because there was some great gap between them, that is bad. Like, going from the City of Oasis to The Otherside of the World, is implausible, and you should rp some travel, or wait for some time, but if you went from Alleycity, to the Citadel, you really wouldn't have to rp that, as it is only about 50 kilometers, and a plane, or jt, could do that in a few hours, and the rps different time zones would allow that jump.

[+Sorana]

I feel like we are moving in a circle. This discussion leads nowhere.

@kenod suggested to simply give it a try, and I think, that's what we should do. Let's have maybe two threads like that and see what happens. If it works for us, then we can expand, if it doesn't then we can stop it.

[xinoehp512]

 

Ohhh....

*lightbulb moment*

I think I understand the issue now. I've personally always seen it as a product of the fact that we don't have a central plot anymore, like we did in Era 1. Perhaps that problem could be solved if we were to create a central plot and get everyone interested, but I don't know if that would work. I probably wouldn't be able to participate. My pace of writing is too slow for most plot threads. 

I think that your proposed solution is a valid one. Implementing it would be good for me as well; plots with less people in them tend to go slower. If that's what people want to do, then let's do it. My only remaining problems have to deal with the specific details of their implementation.

For instance, character hopping. I firmly believe that if you create something like the North Sea plot, then you won't need to force people to keep their characters separate. Nobody came over once that plot had gotten going because there wasn't any way to insert a character.

21 hours ago, Voidus said:

Yes indeed, that's generally what has been assumed by sides. Anything on the same hemisphere is going to be too easy to access to be meaningfully separated in any way.

Okay then. To be clear, everyone, the alleycity side does not take up a whole hemisphere.

21 hours ago, MacThorstenson said:

6. My point in putting this there is that any sizable society that forms would be heavily influenced by the DA, which can be limiting on whatever stories you want to tell. 

Can we not do this?

[MacThorstenson]

58 minutes ago, xinoehp512 said:

 

Ohhh....

*lightbulb moment*

I think I understand the issue now. I've personally always seen it as a product of the fact that we don't have a central plot anymore, like we did in Era 1. Perhaps that problem could be solved if we were to create a central plot and get everyone interested, but I don't know if that would work. I probably wouldn't be able to participate. My pace of writing is too slow for most plot threads. 

I think that your proposed solution is a valid one. Implementing it would be good for me as well; plots with less people in them tend to go slower. If that's what people want to do, then let's do it. My only remaining problems have to deal with the specific details of their implementation.

For instance, character hopping. I firmly believe that if you create something like the North Sea plot, then you won't need to force people to keep their characters separate. Nobody came over once that plot had gotten going because there wasn't any way to insert a character.

Okay then. To be clear, everyone, the alleycity side does not take up a whole hemisphere.

Can we not do this?

Yay! Welcome to the dark side! We have cookies. 

If you don’t mind me asking, what did you think the issue was before?

I also would prefer to create plots that don’t have as many opportunities for character transition. It can be difficult to assure that that sort of thing happens all the time though. I think that limiting the possibility for universe transition will allow all plots to benefit from that without forcing them to not have those kind of moments. 

Am I making sense?

EDIT: I mean sure we can. The DA has plans for massive benalloy time warping breeding programs. The alleys also don’t need to keep temporal unity, so once the initial seeds for the programs were collected the DA wouldn’t  necessarily be maintaining a massive presence in those societies, unless they were strong enough to pose a threat. 

Edited February 22, 2019 by MacThorstenson

[Darth Woodrack]

I have no idea what just happened.

[Voidus]

Well as Sorana has pointed out I think the best thing at this point is a trial run. I'll try to get something up within the next few days.