[OB] Oathbringer chapters 28-30

[StormingTexan]

4 minutes ago, Extesian said:

8 hours. i truly will never catch up on Oathbringer theories 

It is like when I just finish the chapters and the reaction thread is already at 9 pages.. 

[Steeldancer]

6 minutes ago, Extesian said:

8 hours. i truly will never catch up on Oathbringer theories 

psst. try reading the other threads. They're probably more cohesive than all the random crap weve been saying in the last 8 hours.

[Pattern]

Late start today for me. Re-Shephir...let me have a look at my guess from last week  ;-)

Edit:

Finally a correct guess

Edited November 1, 2017 by Pattern

[StormingTexan]

The OB spoiler board has more post than all of these combined. 

 

[Toaster Retribution]

Just now, StormingTexan said:

The OB spoiler board has more post than all of these combined. 

 

Storms, we are hyped up. 

[Steeldancer]

Just now, StormingTexan said:

The OB spoiler board has more post than all of these combined. 

 

Thats amazing. After all, theres SO MUCH TO TALK ABOUT!

[Hemalurgic Headshot]

Okay, am I late to the party... but things!

So there is a corresponding Unmade for each of the Orders except one. My initial instinct is to say that the Bondsmiths are not represented by Unmade, due to the nature of Bondsmiths, but if we look at the Heralds, Taln is the last Herald standing, and he's the Stoneward guy. So is there a Stoneward Unmade? That is unknown at the moment, but surely we will know soon enough.

Another option that I've seen is the "the 10th Unmade is Odium's Champion" theory. This aligns with the lack of a Bondsmith Unmade, because the Champion would be similar to a Bondsmith. However, we cannot throw this Odium Champion=Bondsmith Unmade out if the Stoneward Unmade is lacking, because hasn't Dalinar already seen the Champion? The nine shadows? Perhaps the Champion already exists, or at least the Unmade does, and it waits to bond with the Champion. We do know that Unmade can bond, as what almost happened with Shallan.

I would like to see what happens if an Unmade does bond...

[StormingTexan]

7 minutes ago, Hemalurgic_Headshot said:

I would like to see what happens if an Unmade does bond...

I'm guessing that makes them the latter of the two below.

Quote

 

The Unmade are a deviation, a flair, a conundrum that may not be worth your time. You cannot help but think of them. They are fascinating. Many are mindless. Like the spren of human emotions, only much more nasty. I do believe a few can think, however. —From the Diagram, Book of the 2nd Desk Drawer: paragraph 14

Sanderson, Brandon. Words of Radiance (The Stormlight Archive, Book 2) (p. 968). Tom Doherty Associates. Kindle Edition. 

 

 

Edited October 31, 2017 by StormingTexan

[hoser]

Stoneward unmade?  Thunderclasts are made of stone, so maybe like a stoneward midnight essence?  In chapter 4 of WoR they seem to arise from a large thing that looks like a spren to Dalinar. 

Edited October 31, 2017 by hoser

[Marethyu316]

7 hours ago, Leyrann said:

I didn't, actually. I already thought it interesting how she started that talk with Shallan about the Shardblade, and now it was mentioned that she was to draw a map. I think we're seeing Shallan's first (maybe even only?) squire here.

I was thinking that Gaz and the other guards might end up being squires. The conversation with Veil about how Shallan changed their lives and the encouragement by Adolin to not ignore them makes me think that there is more going on there.

[Marethyu316]

6 hours ago, Mulk said:

Yes, but the most popular theory is he'll be a Bondsmith.  Are Bondsmiths one who could? I don't know.  Maybe?

This whole argument reflects one of the only real problems I have with the way Brandon has set things up.  Journey before Destination is very difficult to read as anything other than meaning the way you get somewhere and what you do on the way is at least as important as where you are going.   It also fits with the whole Honor theme.  I can read a Machiavellian as being able to do Life before Death and Strength before weakness, and if he'd left it at that I'd be just fine.

I think it would require some sort of priority shift for Taravangian. I think he is overestimating the usefulness of the Diagram, so I think that will eventually lead to him needing to come to some sort of moment of reckoning. However, part of me thinks that there is at least some honor (perhaps too strong) in the fact that he accepts the responsibility for what he is doing, and doesn't try to claim that he is some righteous person doing "God's will" or something, the way that Amaram seems to do. A lot would need to happen, but I think it's possible, but not probable, that he could come around and end up being a bondsmith/supporting Dalinar.

[Nathrangking]

My my my new powers from the stormfather how very interesting. Now we have a way to finally bring together team blackthorn!! Double bonded Amraam is on its way. A radiant can scare an unmade hmm... Things are about to become very strange very fast.The fact that Shallan's real identity is becoming a mask may prove most problematic.

Edited October 31, 2017 by Nathrangking

[duladen]

Pieces of this idea were mentioned throughout this thread, but I haven't seen it as concise as it is in my mind...

We got another mention of the Urithiru ductwork as well as an introduction to the Urithiru dilithium warp drive. I'm guessing that this ductwork not only provides ventilation to the occupied sections of the tower, but also allows Highstorms to penetrate deep into the bowels of the structure, supplying the giant Radiant Battery with massive amounts of Stormlight, which can then (as has been mentioned by a few Sharders in this thread and others) be transmitted throughout Urithiru via the enigmatic strata.

 

[ParadoxicalZen]

damnation I am so hyped for this book right. I agree that the chapter's will probably be Kaladin and then a Dalinar flashback, as the end of Parts typically end like so.

First thoughts; I agree that the mural is depicting worldhopping, but I predict it is when humanity first arrived on Roshar (whether it was Tanavast that first brought them or pre-shattering) so the guy could either be Tanavast or President A itself. Also note, the Skyfather and Earthmother are huge themes from old religions around the world that Brandon seems to have used for inspiration for SA, as represented by Honour/Cultivation with the Stormfather/presumably Nightwatcher and the cloud/tree symbolism.

I wonder if we'll ever get a scene with Dalinar on the roof talking to the Stormfather and Taravangian makes an appearance, would be fascinating to see if the Stormfather makes a comment on Mr T bearing the Nightwatcher's touch. Kinda hoping he bonds the Nightwatcher but we'll see. Glad Renarin is coming into his own and out of his shell more.

These Storm vision scenes are going to be awesome.....two weeks is too far away!

 

[Marethyu316]

3 hours ago, Pagerunner said:

It can be found here. The main characters didn't actually interpret the mural correctly.

Of course, the Annotations for Elantris state that they were originally intended (by Sanderson) as just a way to allow Elantrians to pass on. I am pretty sure that he didn't work out the real significance of the shardpools until he started writing Mistborn. In the end, it doesn't change the fact that the characters assumed incorrectly that it was only for that reason. I'm guessing that's part of why he added the Hoid postscript to make it more clear that it is functioning that way, even if it is dangerous on Sel.

 

On a separate topic, did Dalinar use a handkerchief to pick up Oathbringer, because he was afraid of the screams? If so, it's weird that he then wonders about the screams being quieter. If it wasn't for that reason, do they have fingerprint technology on Roshar? That would be bad news for Adolin.

Edited October 31, 2017 by Marethyu316
Added comment and didn't want to double post.

[mariapapadia]

1 hour ago, StormingTexan said:

The OB spoiler board has more post than all of these combined. 

 

I feel like for me, this forum is mostly only related to Stormlight Archive,particulary Oathbringer  it's been such a big part of my daily routine for the last 2 months, that I don't know what I will do once Oathbinger is released and the hype will die down until the next SA book  

[Steeldancer]

8 minutes ago, mariapapadia said:

I feel like for me, this forum is mostly only related to Stormlight Archive,particulary Oathbringer  it's been such a big part of my daily routine for the last 2 months, that I don't know what I will do once Oathbinger is released and the hype will die down until the next SA book  

We'll be kept busy for at least a week 

[CaptainRyan]

13 minutes ago, Steeldancer said:

We'll be kept busy for at least a week 

If we are really lucky, we might even stretch out the theorizing to two weeks!

Then comes the long night wherein only really, really, really weird theories that are obviously wrong will be posted because everyone is over-analyzing some sentence combined with a WoB that may or may not be related.

[The Invested Beard]

We just end up retreating to the general discussion board after two weeks of good theorizing.

[maxal]

Two hours of trick or treating and an insane amount of candies later, I finally have the time for a review. Curse you Brandon to release new chapters on Halloween day  So here were my thoughts, great chapters this week. This was one of my favorite sequence of three so far.

Chapter 28

I know this may not be the expected reaction, but I am personally thrilled to see the "world" refuse to unite itself with Dalinar. It was about time Dalinar is forced to look back at his former self and to acknowledged the Blackthorn may have left much more than a trail of blood. I loved when he muses over his and Gavilar's war, thinking they only did it because "this is what men do". I also loved when he said Gavilar tried to justify it and IMHO failed. You can't justify slaughtering the very people you are supposed to protect just so you could sit on a throne. Not cool, this was not cool at all and now, in a time of great need, the entire world will not trust Dalinar. And I can't blame the world.

Oathbringer was finally found. I had wonder if someone else hadn't stumbled on it being closed doors, but no. It remained where Adolin dropped it, untouched and now Amaram has it within his own hands. Will he bound it? The other interesting aspect of Oathbringer was the fact he didn't scream to Dalinar: it felt as if it were sentient and perhaps able to be revived. I mean, if it had been Adolin's Blade which had the same behavior, I'd be jumping on it, but it was Oathbringer and I can't bring myself to wish for its revival. I am thus left not knowing what to think.

Amaram went up a notch for me this week: he said out loud what I had been thinking about Dalinar. Yes, he is a hypocrite. He insists on trialing Amaram because he killed innocent men, but whom will trial Dalinar for the many more he did kill? Say, how about his own men he slaughtered during his blood lost? Weren't they "innocent" too? So are Amaram's innocent worst than Dalinar's? And yeah, Amaram was right to bring it forward. I thought it'd be Adolin who's say those words to his father, but turns out it was Amaram.

I am curious to see what other people will think of Dalinar's visions...

Oh and I love the idea of endless dark airing tunnels which could hide all sorts of creatures. Am I the only one who thought of Alien 2?

Chapter 29/30

The excitement rises as Shallan tracks the creature which turned out to be the midnight essence Re-Shephir. Apparently it was once trapped by a Lightweaver and only Shallan scared it. Now I am curious about the other midnight essences. 

I am glad Shallan wasn't reckless to rush into the dark tunnel without back-up: I loved she sent for Adolin and Bridge 4. Seeing Renarin in there as well was great. It was refreshing to see him take part into the action, not balk away and be useful. It was also great to see him fight with Adolin: I am sure this is something they were both looking forward even if we didn't get their respective thoughts.  Bridge 4 has also adopted Renarin, now he belongs.

Somehow throughout the whole scene I thought it was Adolin whom didn't belong.

I am still not sure what to make of Shallan's many personas. Are they supposed to merge or is she supposed to spend a lifetime alternating from one to the other? This isn't clear yet, but one thing was clear is she didn't want Adolin to find out about them. I am still unsure what to do with her very strong desire to not let Adolin know about Veil, no matter what. It definitely does not bode well for them.

Now I am sure more thoughts will pop into my mind later on, this was a busy night.

[Calcium]

From memory there's been theories that not all the radiant orders walked away from their oaths. Is it possible that if the Storm father has been charged with looking for someone to bond, that the bond Smith's at least have been working secretly behind the scenes since the Recreance? If there's only 3 when the order is at max capacity and the sorrmfather as a spren has to find someone to bond, that they've had the Sunmaker, Gavilar and others in their order the whole time trying to unite mankind as an order limited to one Radiant for ages?

[Kingsdaughter613]

Well, I did theorize a few weeks ago that if we are looking at Blades, not characters, Oathbringer was most likely to be revived.

If Amaram has any sense he’d offer the Blade to Dalinar as recompense to Kalladin. Publicly, before other lighteyes. 

Re-Shefir was fascinating. And, since no one brought it up here, it’s nice to know where Brandon recycled some

Spoiler

Aether of Night plot elements.

Am I the only one who reacted to Shallan’s covering Veil’s face with ‘Shallan’s’ by thinking ‘so you finally acknowledge that ‘Shallan’ is another mask.’ Which I actually think could be a good thing for her to admit...

So these are my random reactions.

[DSC01]

7 hours ago, Pagerunner said:

Agree that it is not the Oilsworn drawing of Ishar, for the reasons you suggested and because the piece is only several hundred years old in-universe. The blue disc mural displays shocking similarities to one found in Elantris, with many key details (floating in air, arms outstretched) the same between the two. That one was a depiction of worldhopping; I think this one is, as well.

Oooooooh! It's been a long time since I've read Elantris, and I've only read it twice, so all I remember of that is that there was a mural (and even that pretty vaguely). I'll have to check that out. That does seem to make more sense than Odium, but I do wonder about the possibility that all of these planets had worldhopping in the past, and then it was totally lost. It would be odd for the functionally immortal members of the 17th Shard to live through an era where Cosmere awareness was common, then decide that non-interference was vital when that knowledge was lost. Well, we don't really know enough to speculate meaningfully on that, I suppose. The Cosmere may once have been exactly like that, with everyone hopping from p[lanet to planet all the time, and some catastrophe convinced Frost et al to let it die when it it started to go. Stuff we know about Nalthis may actually support that notion, now that I think about it.

[maxal]

23 minutes ago, Kingsdaughter613 said:

Well, I did theorize a few weeks ago that if we are looking at Blades, not characters, Oathbringer was most likely to be revived.

You did, but it still does not make any sense to me Oathbringer ought to be revived. The only outstanding thing Dalinar did to it is unbound it. It seems too little, so I hope the story doesn't go there. 

[DSC01]

4 minutes ago, Kingsdaughter613 said:

Well, I did theorize a few weeks ago that if we are looking at Blades, not characters, Oathbringer was most likely to be revived.

If Amaram has any sense he’d offer the Blade to Dalinar as recompense to Kalladin. Publicly, before other lighteyes. 

Re-Shefir was fascinating. And, since no one brought it up here, it’s nice to know where Brandon recycled some

  Reveal hidden contents

Aether of Night plot elements.

Am I the only one who reacted to Shallan’s covering Veil’s face with ‘Shallan’s’ by thinking ‘so you finally acknowledge that ‘Shallan’ is another mask.’ Which I actually think could be a good thing for her to admit...

So these are my random reactions.

If I am not mistaken, Shallan did not in fact cover her Stormlight-woven Veil face with a Stormlight Shallan face. She only covered her clothes, and dismissed the facial illusions. The issue was that when she returned to being herself from the illusion, she metaphorically put on a Shallan mask, as if it were an alternate identity like Veil or Radiant.