[OB] Oathbringer chapters 28-30

[JoyBlu]

Wow!  There are already 13 pages and I am just now getting my responses to these chapters typed up.  What exciting chapters they were! Halloween has been a very busy day indeed.  I do have to say the the dry-ice bubbles or boo-bubbles I did in the elementary school today reminded me of a fabrial.  If it had been dark clouds instead of white I would have said it was like the stone Gavilar had that he gave to Szeth.  As per the usual I haven't read any other other responses yet.  (Wouldn't want to taint my remarks with undue influence!)

Chapter 28: Another Option

Mr Brandon Sanderson knows how to tell stories.  He does it on a grand level (The Cosmere), a Series Level (Mistborn Era's 1&2, Stormlight, Alcatraz, etc) , He does it on a triology level (Reckoners, Mistborn Era 1), a book level, parts of a book, and here we see him do it brilliantly within a chapter. The story that Nohadon tells so brilliantly reflects the decisions in Dalinar's life.  But will this "another option" that Dalinar discovers to visit other leaders in dreams during highstorms amount to putting them in prison?

If the book Oathbringer was written by Dalinar (which seems more likely this week, since Dalinar viewed himself through Taravangian as a heretic; and the passed between realms -- perhaps he does this when visiting others in visions during their dreams) and Dalinar does admit to his monstrous past  (The Sword Oathbringer remembers the day it was won by Dalinar -- that would be interesting to read from the Sword's perspective) then the words which Taravangian spoke of Nohadon are also telling us what Dalinar is doing:

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“He wasn’t seeking justice, but to assuage his own conscience.”

As his memories of Evi return he will have much weighing heavily on his conscience. (I believe)

 

So Shallan has reported the strange spren to Dalinar.  That is good to know.

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It was three feet wide, and about one foot tall. It seemed endless, and he could feel a faint breeze coming out of it. Was that… scraping he heard? A moment later, a mink slunk into the main tunnel from a shadowed crossroad, carrying a dead rat in its mouth. The tubular little animal twitched its snout toward him, then carried its prize away.

“Air is circulating through those,” Navani said as he hopped down off the chair. “The method baffles us. Perhaps some fabrial we have yet to discover?”

 

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He wanted some fresh air; an open sky always seemed so inviting.

Wasn't it just established that the vents bring him fresh air? He just wanted to be alone me thinks.

 

Strata = Folds of a fan.  It looks like there are still mysteries in this strata that we have yet to fully see (unfold) and understand.

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Dalinar squinted, picking out a gouge cut into the rock wall. What could score stone like that? It almost looked like…

He looked down at the planter boxes nearest them. And there, hidden between two of them, was a hilt protruding from the stone floor.

A Shardblade.

OK, this is bothering me.  I thought that Shardblades couldn't cut through the stone in Urithiru???

In the Prologue of WoR from Jasnah's POV we read

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She passed Shardblade cuts on the stone walls as she ran

So I know that Shardblades can cut regular stone -- but I was under the impression that the stone in Urithiru was different.  That a Shardblade couldn't cut through it.  I know Shallan's sword was automatically dulled for practice at one point but I'm pretty sure the stone in Urithuri couldn't be scratched by a shardblade??.  And then with what happens in the next chapter with Shallan using a blade to cut some strata -- I'm very confused.  I'm hoping that this question has already been answered and accounted for. If not, I will have to dig through the previous OB chapters for clues.

 

I find it interesting that both Kaladin & Dalinar have willingly given shardbaldes to someone (Moash and Amaram) who will eventually use that blade to fight against them. (I am makins some assumptions here) What does the dead blade think about that?/????? And I totally predicted that Amaram would end up with Oathbringer. While he hasn't bonded it yet -- he was holding it and it is obvious to me that Amaram will bond it. Glad I was following your foreshadowing Mr Sanderson. //wink

 

My favorite quote from this chapter:

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Taravangian is wrong, the Stormfather said. You are not a hypocrite, Son of Honor.

“I am,” Dalinar said softly. “But sometimes a hypocrite is nothing more than a person who is in the process of changing.”

and so we see Dalinar's past as being very hypocritical of his present state. I'm glad that Dalniar is aware of this and it makes me more curious as to his past rather than angered by it.  (although it is still disgusting)  but if I find out that he killed Vivienna . . . . . . .

I'm really looking forward to the chapters where Dalinar will visit others in a dream during the highstorm.  I wonder when he will visit Kaladin and if his visit will betray Kaladin to the yellow spren.

Color & Spren Observations for Chapter 28 spoiled/hidden for length

  Hide contents

SPREN OBSERVATIONS for Oathbringer Chapter 28: Another Option

dancing of flamespren

COLOR OBSERVATIONS for Oathbringer Chapter 28: Another Option

garnet-lit tongue

silvery blade

shining ruby

Chapter 29: No Backing Down

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Spheres that glowed again, and several highstorms as proof that that would persist, had encouraged everyone.

That just made me happy to read two thats together.  Don't know why.

 

So Veil is training her men to be spies.  I like that.  I had questions as to whither the men knew her true identity, but obviously those questions were answered by the end of the chapter. @Fifth of Daybreak  you really need to dress up as the guy that was murdered.  The mustaches.  He had more than one? Maybe his eyebrows were considered mustaches too?  Perhaps it was because today was Halloween, but I just imagined you walking around with your multiple mustaches and a deck of cards, with a half broken bottle going through your head. I do wonder how will she explain where Veil went once Shallan was the one who caught the unmade.  I'm sure she will figure something out. But how long will her team believe this lie.

I still want to know why Red has the name Red.  Seems like he should have red eyes or something. He made me laugh but then I remembered that my teenagers are reading these books and his comments made me mad.  Then I figured that his sexual innuendo went right over their heads.  (or at least I hope it did) But why did Shallan laugh? I thought she was pretty sheltered in that department . . . . . . . (Where was Chaperone Pattern when I was counting on him)

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"Nothing to add but a pretty map"

Obviously Shallan added much more than a pretty map today -- but this comment by Shallan brought me back to the discussion last week on gender prejudices.  I've been thinking about many of those comments and while I don't have anything meaningful to add to the the discussion right now, I do feel like I am learning and noticing those things more. (both in literature and in real life)

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Shallan sucked me up!!!!

Still chuckling at that brilliant line

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The strata danced on the walls, the speed of her run making them seem to twist around her like threads in a loom.

When will I get to see the full tapestry???

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Circled by stone steps with no railing, the hole bored down through the rock into darkness.

This reminded me of the front cover of Oathbringer.  Except Jasnah wasn't there and the cover is in light; not darkness.  Maybe there will be a future scene where Jasnah is on these steps (in the light)

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Shallan kept her word. She was drawn toward that blackness, but she wasn’t stupid. Well, mostly not stupid.

. . . . . .

 

“He came at me,” Adolin said, “in the training rooms, screaming that you’d found the killer. Said that if I didn’t come, you’d probably—and I quote—‘go do something stupid without letting me watch.’ ”

Pattern hummed. “Stupidity. Very interesting.”

“You should visit the Alethi court sometime,” Adolin said, stepping over to the pit. “So…”

I found those lines hilarious!

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“Our own little storm,” Dalinar said. “Captured, contained, and channeled.”

Be ready to perform a controlled, careful retreat

Lots of C alliteration going on with these adjectives.  I like it!

Metal Doors you say?  What kind of Metal?

METAL STEEL DOORS!!!

Mistborn Spoiler

Spoiler

Steel is the External Physical Pushing metal. An Allomancer burning steel can Push bits of metal away from their center of mass, and can also use steel to sense the presence of metal nearby. Steelpushing is not dependent on magnetic forces or Allomatic power--most metals (with the exception of aluminum and some of its alloys) can be Pushed. Feruchemists can use steel to store physical speed, and when used as a hemalurgic spike, steel steals physical Allomantic powers.  (Coppermind)

Because I don't want to miss a single metal clue . . . . I needed a quick refresher (just in case it was relevant)

So during the last half of the chapter, I kept thinking that everyone from Bridge 4 was there.  My heart was racing and I was so afraid that they would all die protecting Shallan and that Kaladin would have to come back to having his entire team slaughtered and Amaram in charge.  Luckily my worry was for naught -- but still -- it was pretty intense for me for a few minutes.I was so proud of all of them and how they fought.  Renarin healing everyone was so sweet. I'm glad that Shallan and Renarin both were able to understand each other without any pretenses.  I think I'm blurring chapters 29 & 30 together now . . . . .

 

 

Color & Spren Observations for Chapter 29 spoiled/hidden for length

Spoiler

SPREN OBSERVATIONS for Oathbringer Chapter 29: No Backing Down

decayspren

COLOR OBSERVATIONS for Oathbringer Chapter 29: No Backing Down

Red (the person)

man wearing all black

figure that was jet black

coal skin

spiraling blackness

drawn towards that blackness

long white coat (Veil)

man in a blue uniform entered the room (??)

dusting his grey temples (??)

Kholin blue Shardplate (Adolin)

Slate-colored Shardplate (Renarin)

blackness

black smoke

black tide

blackness

 

 

Chapter 30: Mother of Lies

 

I liked Pattern & Shallan both fighting/reaching out for each other.

Shallan's intimate moment with the unmade was unexpected, and yet so right.  I'm sure we will see this unmade again and she will remember this interaction with Shallan.  I assuming her imprisonment was because she had been trapped in Urithiru. The unmade's thought processes reminded me of the spren that are evolving and trying to understand more -- but also of nightblood.  His inability to always understand what "evil" is in order to destroy it. I'm assuming that the unmade can't progress like the spren are progressing?

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Like stones come alive, content to be killed or to kill with no attachment or enjoyment.

This reminded me of Thunderclasts -- but perhaps it was meant to refer to basic soul-casting?

 

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Power could be an illusion of perception. Even within yourself.

That was my favorite quote from this chapter. Very similar to what Shallan said in chapter 18

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Veil. Veil didn’t hurt. She was comfortable, confident. She’d meet people’s eyes. She’d lift her chin in challenge to anyone who seemed to be sizing her up. Power was an illusion of perception.

 

So we think we discovered the power core of Urithuri.  That would explain why it is so far down.  Perhaps the storms reach it.  Is this Power core an illusion somehow? To make us believe that there isn't more behind the secrets of Urithiru? There has got to be more. (The Strata!!!!)

 

 

Color & Spren Observations for Chapter 30 spoiled/hidden because that is what I did with the other one and I like to follow protocol (Even though this one is super short)

Spoiler

SPREN OBSERVATIONS for Oathbringer Chapter 30: Mother of Lies

creationspren

COLOR OBSERVATIONS for Oathbringer Chapter 30: Mother of Lies

dissolved to black

 

I really, really, really enjoyed this weeks chapters. . . and already starting down the count down for next week!

Edited November 1, 2017 by JoyBlu

[Nymeros]

Gotta admit, the Heralds have lost some major cool points of they broke after only 9 Desolations. That's so.....unimpressive.

 

After a re-read : Where the heck is Rlain? He should be the most dominant fighter among Bridge 4.

 

Edited November 1, 2017 by Nymeros

[Agent34]

1 minute ago, Nymeros said:

Gotta admit, the Heralds have lost some major cool points of they broke after only 9 Desolations. That's so.....unimpressive.

Most people would probably last one if any.

[Marethyu316]

2 minutes ago, Agent34 said:

Most people would probably last one if any.

Also, my guess is that they would have broken after the 9 trips to Damnation, not necessarily the Desolations themselves, though I'm sure those were no picnic.

Edited November 1, 2017 by Marethyu316

[Nymeros]

13 minutes ago, Agent34 said:

Most people would probably last one if any.

Lol, our heroes will last 2 of these battles, so.....

It's like the Heralds have nothing special about them. Then again, it's probably more than 9 or at least I hope (that supposed WOB about the timeline and Desolations doesn't fit anyway).

[Nymeros]

13 hours ago, Steeldancer said:

Go read the unmade= herald analogue thread. 

I did and asked questions even....still don't understand the purpose behind this theory.

[Gigalemesh]

3 hours ago, JoyBlu said:

I'm pretty sure the stone in Urithuri couldn't be scratched by a shardblade??

I'm pretty sure there has been no mention of that, not in the chapters at least, I'd say I might have missed it but it seems unlikely given we have just seen proof it's not the case.

3 hours ago, JoyBlu said:

The mustaches.  He had more than one?

Yeah Brandon uses the term moustaches in other places as well, it's strange and I haven't seen it anywhere else, as far as can tell it's just a big moustache though

[Toaster Retribution]

Guys, the thread for last weeks chapters is thirteen pages total. This is fourteen. Already. 

[Ciridae]

Great chapters, I've read a bit of what everybody had to say, but not all of it, here's what really stood out to me:

Re-Shepir instinctively tried to bond with Shallan, that's really cool and potentially really scary. Even before the battle, which must have taken place in the spiritual realm, what with all the opened up souls, Shallan felt like she understood the Unmade. I agree that there is probably one unmade tangentially based on or in some way related to an order of the radiants, with the probable exception of the Bondsmiths.

I'd hazard a guess that Yellig-nar, the Blightwind corresponds to the Windrunners, Moelach maybe to the Truthwatchers, as he seems to peek into past and future? Sja-anat corrupting spren, so Transformation? Elsecallers? Dai-gonarthis, the Black Fisher I have no idea, and Nergaoul, causing the Thrill could fit with Dustbringers or maybe Stonewardens. Perhaps Skybreakers, but I'd think one of the battle-orders.

I don't think that an Unmade was created with the advent of each new Desolation. We hear mention of Re-Shepir, Yellig-Nar, and Sja-Anat in Dalinar's visions. I think they've been around since the first desolation, meant to directly oppose the Heralds, before the whole conflict turned to a prolonged battle with lots of smaller soldiers after spren copied the Honorblades. I also don't quite understand why the connection between Heralds breaking and creation of Unmade is being made. What do we have to show that the two are related? I see no correlation so far, but I guess it's still a posibility.

 

I loved every second of the Dalinar - Taravangian conversation, and that we got to hear another anecdote from the Way of Kings. More Adhesion from Dalinar, when are we going to see some of Tension? 

I'm excited about the library and murals, especially the depictions of the spren. I have high hopes that we either get to see Honor and Cultivation or some of the spren. 

That would be amazing. And I'm sure there's something salvageable in the library. Also, I like that Lyn is being so prominently featured, there's something going on there. 

Pattern made me laugh again, what a great character. 

Next week a big Listener reveal from a Kaladin chapter I hope. My bet is that the Listeners are gathering around another Unmade, or that we at least get to see some real voidforms at the big gathering. 

 

Edit: About the depictions of Honor and Cultivation, perhaps it's neither, and the cloud represents the Stormfather, the tree-lady the Nightwatcher and the man with the blue disc is the third Bondsmith spren. 

Edited November 1, 2017 by Ciridae

[Steeldancer]

4 hours ago, Nymeros said:

I did and asked questions even....still don't understand the purpose behind this theory.

The purpose is to determine why the Unmade exist, and where they come from. 

[WhiteLeeopard]

1 hour ago, Toaster Retribution said:

Guys, the thread for last weeks chapters is thirteen pages total. This is fourteen. Already. 

Considering we likely read the end of Part 1 for Dalinar and Shallan that is not surprising .

I was a bit underwhelmed by the Unmade, I had expected them to be at least a match for a Herald, yet a not even full radiant without full understanding of her powers was capable of setting it on the run? Maybe it was a trick, or playing low level for some reason?

On Lyn...I am starting to think she is kind of Roshar's version of a radiant groupie (meant in a nice way). She probably was the one seing Shallan's sketchbooks and asking what it was like been a KR with a Shardblade . Since Shallan wasn't too interested Lyn mysteriously ended up with Kaladin's squires . If she were more suspicious I'd be screaming secret society, but she seems such a sweetie I'd rather believe fan, and someday squire.

I am so sooo looking forward to exploring Urithiru's real face. What we've seen so far is amazing, but the library, murals, gemstone pillar .

[ScavellTane]

Lyn's inclusion makes sense since only one(?) of bridge four can actually write.

[Stark]

15 hours ago, CaptainRyan said:

My impression is that Re-Sephir ignored Shallan because Shallan was encased, head to toe, in Stormlight (she created a lightweaving of herself to hide that she was Veil from Adolin right before descending into the pit).

Ooh, I like this.  Stormlight kinda acting like metal, and blinding/obscuring Shallan from imitation.  That is a cool idea.  But it seems incomplete.  There were points, especially around the weeping when light was being rationed, where Shallan would have been full time in her default form, so Re-Shepir would have been able to image her then.  It also does not explain why none of the midnight essence attacked her.  Even if it could not detect her true form, it could detect her enough to run from her - so it knew she was there, was aware of her, and would have had plenty of opportunity to copy her in the weeks leading up to this.  So it feels incomplete.

15 hours ago, mariapapadia said:

That's exactly what I was thinking ! I also thought it was a bit wierd that it was trying to imitate people that weren't there, which means it had time to study everyone. I think the creature has to know a bit of someone's personality to imitate it. If there was only a matter of appearence then it could have copied Shallan's phisical form as well.

Yes!  It was imitating everyone it had spied on, I think even some of Bridge Four was in the mix!  But no Shallan.  So either it was so afraid of the Lightweaver that it did not copy her, to avoid drawing her attention (which makes no sense, because no one knew it was imitating them, and Shallan was already detecting it subconsciously)or Shallan is so influx, that it cannot copy her.  Or, seeing as it tried to possess her, it did not copy her to avoid offending her with its inferior creations to make bonding easier.

17 hours ago, Fourth Of The Night said:

Hey now, minks are not rodents, they are Mustelids, and a beautiful example of a Mustelid at that.

Very true point. If I can be finicky about the details to save some face at my error, it was carrying a dead rat in its mouth, which is a rodent.  So I was not entirely wrong.  But I had focused on the mink, which as you point out, is not a rodent.  I was in error.  I don't know much about minks, but I understand they are kinda cute - like ferrets, or otters.  Am I correct in that, or still entirely wrong?

[Kingsdaughter613]

3 hours ago, Gigalemesh said:

I'm pretty sure there has been no mention of that, not in the chapters at least, I'd say I might have missed it but it seems unlikely given we have just seen proof it's not the case.

Yeah Brandon uses the term moustaches in other places as well, it's strange and I haven't seen it anywhere else, as far as can tell it's just a big moustache though

Moustaches is just another term for a full moustache. When used as such moustache is typically a shorter growth.

[Fourth Of The Night]

1 hour ago, Stark said:

Very true point. If I can be finicky about the details to save some face at my error, it was carrying a dead rat in its mouth, which is a rodent.  So I was not entirely wrong.  But I had focused on the mink, which as you point out, is not a rodent.  I was in error.  I don't know much about minks, but I understand they are kinda cute - like ferrets, or otters.  Am I correct in that, or still entirely wrong?

Minks are adorable! They're essentially little brown or white ferrets! Most of the small Mustelids are ferret looking, it's when they get bigger that they tend to look awesome like Badgers and Wolverines (Though I also think they're adorable).

[Aminar]

9 hours ago, Nymeros said:

Gotta admit, the Heralds have lost some major cool points of they broke after only 9 Desolations. That's so.....unimpressive.

 

After a re-read : Where the heck is Rlain? He should be the most dominant fighter among Bridge 4.

 

Sooo... 

9 tours in Hell, complete with torture followed by witnessing 9 literal apocalypses full of human misery and death that, upon completion, send you back to Hell for more torture is unimpressive? 

Imagine that life. 

Pain pain pain, relief from physical pain for massive stress, responsibility, and emotional trauma, leading back into the pain pain pain cycle? 

9 isn't unimpressive. It's beyond the scope of anything I've ever read. To the point I've never quite bought it as plausible. Like... Not even once. 

[Pattern]

13 hours ago, maxal said:

Two hours of trick or treating and an insane amount of candies later, I finally have the time for a review. Curse you Brandon to release new chapters on Halloween day  So here were my thoughts, great chapters this week. This was one of my favorite sequence of three so far.

Chapter 28

I know this may not be the expected reaction, but I am personally thrilled to see the "world" refuse to unite itself with Dalinar. It was about time Dalinar is forced to look back at his former self and to acknowledged the Blackthorn may have left much more than a trail of blood. I loved when he muses over his and Gavilar's war, thinking they only did it because "this is what men do". I also loved when he said Gavilar tried to justify it and IMHO failed. You can't justify slaughtering the very people you are supposed to protect just so you could sit on a throne. Not cool, this was not cool at all and now, in a time of great need, the entire world will not trust Dalinar. And I can't blame the world.

Oathbringer was finally found. I had wonder if someone else hadn't stumbled on it being closed doors, but no. It remained where Adolin dropped it, untouched and now Amaram has it within his own hands. Will he bound it? The other interesting aspect of Oathbringer was the fact he didn't scream to Dalinar: it felt as if it were sentient and perhaps able to be revived. I mean, if it had been Adolin's Blade which had the same behavior, I'd be jumping on it, but it was Oathbringer and I can't bring myself to wish for its revival. I am thus left not knowing what to think.

Amaram went up a notch for me this week: he said out loud what I had been thinking about Dalinar. Yes, he is a hypocrite. He insists on trialing Amaram because he killed innocent men, but whom will trial Dalinar for the many more he did kill? Say, how about his own men he slaughtered during his blood lost? Weren't they "innocent" too? So are Amaram's innocent worst than Dalinar's? And yeah, Amaram was right to bring it forward. I thought it'd be Adolin who's say those words to his father, but turns out it was Amaram.

I am curious to see what other people will think of Dalinar's visions...

Oh and I love the idea of endless dark airing tunnels which could hide all sorts of creatures. Am I the only one who thought of Alien 2?

Chapter 29/30

The excitement rises as Shallan tracks the creature which turned out to be the midnight essence Re-Shephir. Apparently it was once trapped by a Lightweaver and only Shallan scared it. Now I am curious about the other midnight essences. 

I am glad Shallan wasn't reckless to rush into the dark tunnel without back-up: I loved she sent for Adolin and Bridge 4. Seeing Renarin in there as well was great. It was refreshing to see him take part into the action, not balk away and be useful. It was also great to see him fight with Adolin: I am sure this is something they were both looking forward even if we didn't get their respective thoughts.  Bridge 4 has also adopted Renarin, now he belongs.

Somehow throughout the whole scene I thought it was Adolin whom didn't belong.

I am still not sure what to make of Shallan's many personas. Are they supposed to merge or is she supposed to spend a lifetime alternating from one to the other? This isn't clear yet, but one thing was clear is she didn't want Adolin to find out about them. I am still unsure what to do with her very strong desire to not let Adolin know about Veil, no matter what. It definitely does not bode well for them.

Now I am sure more thoughts will pop into my mind later on, this was a busy night.

Thanks for writing that. Now I don't have to.

Re-Shephir is the Unmade who spawns midnight essences. I guess you want to see the other Unmade. As do I. And I am curious whether the old Lightweaver trapped Re-Shephir in a sphere glowing with black light.

[king of nowhere]

I don't think the desolations can be as little as 9. In the prelude we have kalak remarking that he was killed many times by thunderclasts, that death was rarely pleasant, and that most times 5-8 heralds survive the fighting. Now, the way he talks of death make it seems he died many times, and only some of them were by thunderclasts. So if he died "many" times by thunderclasts, there must have been more than 9 desolation. I'd put a minimum at 20; that way, kalak may have died 3 times by thunderclasts, 10 times total, and be one of the most killed heralds. with 9 it becomes too much of a stretch.

[ScavellTane]

1 minute ago, king of nowhere said:

I don't think the desolations can be as little as 9. In the prelude we have kalak remarking that he was killed many times by thunderclasts, that death was rarely pleasant, and that most times 5-8 heralds survive the fighting. Now, the way he talks of death make it seems he died many times, and only some of them were by thunderclasts. So if he died "many" times by thunderclasts, there must have been more than 9 desolation. I'd put a minimum at 20; that way, kalak may have died 3 times by thunderclasts, 10 times total, and be one of the most killed heralds. with 9 it becomes too much of a stretch.

He could have died and brought back by Regrowth.

[dendrophobe]

10 minutes ago, king of nowhere said:

I don't think the desolations can be as little as 9. In the prelude we have kalak remarking that he was killed many times by thunderclasts, that death was rarely pleasant, and that most times 5-8 heralds survive the fighting. Now, the way he talks of death make it seems he died many times, and only some of them were by thunderclasts. So if he died "many" times by thunderclasts, there must have been more than 9 desolation. I'd put a minimum at 20; that way, kalak may have died 3 times by thunderclasts, 10 times total, and be one of the most killed heralds. with 9 it becomes too much of a stretch.

I went back and reread the Prelude, and I think you're remembering it wrong.

Quote

Even after all these centuries, seeing a thunderclast up close made Kalak shiver. The beast's hand was as long as a man was tall. He'd been killed by hands like those before, and it hadn't been pleasant.

Of course, dying rarely was.

So it could very easily have been than he only died once by a thunderclast. I don't see anywhere else that makes it seem like he died many times, other than his relief and disbelief that, this time, he actually survived.

[Nymeros]

2 hours ago, Aminar said:

Sooo... 

9 tours in Hell, complete with torture followed by witnessing 9 literal apocalypses full of human misery and death that, upon completion, send you back to Hell for more torture is unimpressive? 

Imagine that life. 

Pain pain pain, relief from physical pain for massive stress, responsibility, and emotional trauma, leading back into the pain pain pain cycle? 

9 isn't unimpressive. It's beyond the scope of anything I've ever read. To the point I've never quite bought it as plausible. Like... Not even once. 

And yet Taln withstood Damnation for more than 4 thousand years. It has to be somewhat different from what we're expecting.

Taln is the only impressive Herald imo. Took on the burden of all 10 and still held out an absurdly long time.

1 hour ago, dendrophobe said:

I went back and reread the Prelude, and I think you're remembering it wrong.

So it could very easily have been than he only died once by a thunderclast. I don't see anywhere else that makes it seem like he died many times, other than his relief and disbelief that, this time, he actually survived.

What he said. Additionally, if the Sanderson timeline quote is correct, we only have 500 years to fit every Desolation prior to the prelude......which is crazy but hey.

I also checked and the Radiants only fought in "several Desolations" (per Taln).

Edited November 1, 2017 by Nymeros

[Fifth of Daybreak]

@JoyBlu I'm not opposed to dressing up as him, but he's described as short and I'm a little closer to Kaladin's height on that side of things. 

[DSC01]

8 hours ago, Gigalemesh said:

Yeah Brandon uses the term moustaches in other places as well, it's strange and I haven't seen it anywhere else, as far as can tell it's just a big moustache though

It's all through The Wheel of Time, too. My perception of it is that when someone has a big walrus mustache, where the left and right sides seem to be their own distinct things, rather than a single, slim line of a mustache, then you can refer to them in the plural. Basically, if each side is big and droopy like sideburns, then you've got mustaches.

[Fifth of Daybreak]

15 minutes ago, DSC01 said:

It's all through The Wheel of Time, too. My perception of it is that when someone has a big walrus mustache, where the left and right sides seem to be their own distinct things, rather than a single, slim line of a mustache, then you can refer to them in the plural. Basically, if each side is big and droopy like sideburns, then you've got mustaches.

It seems counter-intuitive until you grow one out. Back when I kept it short I would consider it just a mustache, now mustaches make sense to me. It's actually a process itself just to keep it meshed into two distinct mustaches and not a relatively good looking handlebar mustache on one side and on the other side the half a mustache closest to your lip is just sticking straight down and looks ridiculous. (Sorry about the scruff, it's the last day of my once every three weeks five day weekend.)

Edited November 1, 2017 by Fifth of Daybreak

[Aminar]

31 minutes ago, Nymeros said:

And yet Taln withstood Damnation for more than 4 thousand years. It has to be somewhat different from what we're expecting.

Taln is the only impressive Herald imo. Took on the burden of all 10 and still held out an absurdly long time.

What he said. Additionally, if the Sanderson timeline quote is correct, we only have 500 years to fit every Desolation prior to the prelude......which is crazy but hey.

I also checked and the Radiants only fought in "several Desolations" (per Taln).

Have you ever had a migraine? Been hurt really badly? Suffered chronic pain? Because people that do that for days at a time already are impressive.

What Taln did needs an explanation. It probably involves his mind breaking to the point pain was irrelevant. We know he was already pretty stubborn and borderline suicidally reckless. Or maybe he's just incredibly empathetic and experiencing a desolation is worse for him than pain. 

But you should really look at what the heralds did in comparison to reality. Because if it takes 4000 years of torture to impress you... Well you don't really understand pain. I hope you never really learn what its like. We do know its torture though. The other heralds make that clear enough.