[OB] Oathbringer chapters 10-12

[asterion137 he/him]

What does everyone think about the idea of Highprince Adolin? I haven't read the whole thread but on the off chance that this hasn't come up yet, Dalinar was forced to abdicate his princedom by Elhokar so Adolin should be the new highprince.

@maxal

[+ElephantEarwax he/him]

I think it will be as discussed in either WoR or WoK, I forget. That Adolin will make a good highprince.

[frozndevl]

8 hours ago, SilverTiger said:

Hey, I just noiced this, but Ryshadium have rectangular pupils. That's interesting, especially combined with stone hooves.

So they are evolved goats, awesome.

[+Extesian he/him]

But... horses are prey animals. They normally have horizontal rectangular pupils don't they?

[maxal she/her]

27 minutes ago, asterion137 said:

What does everyone think about the idea of Highprince Adolin? I haven't read the whole thread but on the off chance that this hasn't come up yet, Dalinar was forced to abdicate his princedom by Elhokar so Adolin should be the new highprince.

@maxal

I hate it  I never wanted Adolin to become the next Highprince. I have always found it boring, predictable and to similar to Dalinar's story arc to really be interesting. In the context of Oathbringer, I find even more uninteresting... Adolin being the Highprince means he will never face the consequences for having murdered Sadeas. This is done. It is over. He is above all laws now, he can't be trialed, exiled nor executed. He can't be disowned. Nothing of the wonderful amazing interesting consequences most readers have thought of will never happen, so yeah, I hate it. What else will Brandon write? I have no idea, but since I have been rooting for an Adolin/Dalinar conflict, I am a bit disappointed in seeing it isn't going down this way. Dalinar is barely acknowledging Adolin is existing.

15 minutes ago, ElephantEarwax said:

I think it will be as discussed in either WoR or WoK, I forget. That Adolin will make a good highprince.

Maybe not... He is very emotional, he cares more about his people than politics. It seems likely he would try to do best for the people, but may harm the princedom on the politic side or he may lose his head trying to be everywhere all at once. 

I am not sure he has the right temperament to be a Highprince. He knows the work, but I find he may be too focus on smaller things, not enough on bigger ones.

[+ElephantEarwax he/him]

1 minute ago, maxal said:

Maybe not... He is very emotional, he cares more about his people than politics. It seems likely he would try to do best for the people, but may harm the princedom on the politic side or he may lose his head trying to be everywhere all at once. 

I am not sure he has the right temperament to be a Highprince. He knows the work, but I find he may be too focus on smaller things, not enough on bigger ones

But he was trained to do this.

I know that unless I am put in a position where I have large responsibilities, I will focus on small details to not worry about everything.

[Asrael he/him]

I don't really see how becoming a Highprince will put Adolin above consequence for killing Sadeas. I know Sadeas got away with setting Dalinar up, but I don't think I'm too off base to say that was a really different case. Leaving someone else to die at the hands of your enemies is slimy but it's not stabbing them through the head yourself, which I don't believe would be tolerated by the Alethi outside of a duel.

[maxal she/her]

Just now, ElephantEarwax said:

But he was trained to do this.

I know that unless I am put in a position where I have large responsibilities, I will focus on small details to not worry about everything.

Just because you train for something does not mean you are suited for it. Adolin was told what to do, how to behave, but his heart never were into politics or the game.

[Snipexe he/him]

 

6 minutes ago, Extesian said:

But... horses are prey animals. They normally have horizontal rectangular pupils don't they?

I agree, but on that note, why do horses even exist on roshar. The way everything else has evolved they should have a shell, or something like that. How would they even walk around with out being shod? This is something renarin mentions, and even if they were shin, they would have had to evolved in an extremely isolated environment

[asterion137 he/him]

Just now, maxal said:

Just because you train for something does not mean you are suited for it. Adolin was told what to do, how to behave, but his heart never were into politics or the game.

That might matter in another world, and it still probably matters a bit, but what Roshar needs most in its highprinces right now is strong military leaders. Which Adolin certainly is. The desolation is likely to last for years

[maxal she/her]

Just now, asterion137 said:

That might matter in another world, and it still probably matters a bit, but what Roshar needs most in its highprinces right now is strong military leaders. Which Adolin certainly is. The desolation is likely to last for years

I does not mean I have to like the story arc. Adolin becoming Highprince has been one of my most hated speculative story arcs. It removes all the consequences his character could have suffered for having murdered Sadeas. Losing what he always took for granted would have been so much better, but now? Adolin the Highprince and the military leader having secretly murdered Sadeas just doesn't interest me all that much. Sorry. Hopefully more will come and the idea will grow on me, but it was a disappointment to see Brandon took this path.

[+Extesian he/him]

7 minutes ago, snipexe said:

 

I agree, but on that note, why do horses even exist on roshar. The way everything else has evolved they should have a shell, or something like that. How would they even walk around with out being shod? This is something renarin mentions, and even if they were shin, they would have had to evolved in an extremely isolated environment

I think its simply that there's no soil in the east coz its blown away by Highstorms, so animals there have to get minerals and nutrients from crem, so have evolved to build that into shells. Whereas in shinovar there's no crem but lots of soil so animals evolved there as they would have in non-highstormy places. 

[frozndevl]

Two thoughts on Glys.

1. He is on the spectrum, if possible. Could explain why he was drawn to Renarjn.

2. Glys is a young spren. None of the other spren have expressed uncertainty in being able to become a Blade, so why was Glys?

9 minutes ago, Extesian said:

I think its simply that there's no soil in the east coz its blown away by Highstorms, so animals there have to get minerals and nutrients from crem, so have evolved to build that into shells. Whereas in shinovar there's no crem but lots of soil so animals evolved there as they would have in non-highstormy places. 

I think it has been postulated that there were multiple immigration events to Roshar, and in one of them somehow Shin was built and along with it what we would consider normal animals such as chickens and horses. All the other stuff did evolve there.

Edited September 20, 2017 by frozndevl

[Kered he/him]

So much to unpack. But all I can think of is love coach Syl. 

 

"Well it looks like someone isn't so talented with his personal spe-"

"Syl. No"

[Hero-of-Pages he/him]

I really doubt that the title of high prince is going to stick with Adolin. Not enough chaos. Brandon already has an interesting story arc to flesh out, and Adolin avoiding everything just because of his title as a Highprince is not only uninteresting, I think it would be bad writing.

 

So either Dalinar is going to use his power as Highking to punish Adolin, or Adolin is going to degrade mentally, and mess up as High Prince, maybe stepping down himself.

 

I really don't know what's going to happen, I believe Brandon is gonna lull us into comfort, and pull the rug out from underneath us.

[maxal she/her]

2 minutes ago, heroofpages said:

I really doubt that the title of high prince is going to stick with Adolin. Not enough chaos. Brandon already has an interesting story arc to flesh out, and Adolin avoiding everything just because of his title as a Highprince is not only uninteresting, I think it would be bad writing.

 

So either Dalinar is going to use his power as Highking to punish Adolin, or Adolin is going to degrade mentally, and mess up as High Prince, maybe stepping down himself.

 

I really don't know what's going to happen, I believe Brandon is gonna lull us into comfort, and pull the rug out from underneath us.

Thank you for existing!  I thought I was the only one who hated Adolin as a Highprince. It just doesn't really offer much in terms of story telling. It gives Adolin a way out from all of his problems, it makes him untouchable by law and it isn't even a progression which carries much interest for Adolin's character.

I sincerely hope Brandon will do something to make this interesting because right now, it doesn't look promising.

[+Extesian he/him]

42 minutes ago, frozndevl said:

I think it has been postulated that there were multiple immigration events to Roshar, and in one of them somehow Shin was built and along with it what we would consider normal animals such as chickens and horses. All the other stuff did evolve there.

I have seen that idea before, but

Quote

QUESTION

This is a yes-no-RAFO question. Did Shinovar originate on Roshar?

BRANDON SANDERSON

Yeah. Mhm.

 

[iamstick]

56 minutes ago, snipexe said:

 

I agree, but on that note, why do horses even exist on roshar. The way everything else has evolved they should have a shell, or something like that. How would they even walk around with out being shod? This is something renarin mentions, and even if they were shin, they would have had to evolved in an extremely isolated environment

Humanity has travelled several worlds from the Tranquiline Halls, bringing their chickens and their minks and their hogs and their horses, and they ended up on a planet where Cultivation is a goddess, and they hybridized: the Horneaters (and some Vedens), the Herdazians, the Ryshadium, and probably a number of other variations if you look closely enough. And while Odium is setting up a war between the Parshendi and the Humans, he's overlooked that they're now cousins. Time for them to unite -- not nations but peoples -- and fight Odium with the bits and pieces of Honor that remains.

[Calderis he/him]

@maxal for most things Adolin is above the law now yes.

I don't think the murder of a Highprince counts as "most things." 

If anything the stakes are higher now. As Highprince, he either submits to punishment, or draws House Kholin into war with the other houses. 

It's not just his life on the line anymore. 

[+eveorjoy she/her]

1 hour ago, maxal said:

I hate it  I never wanted Adolin to become the next Highprince. I have always found it boring, predictable and to similar to Dalinar's story arc to really be interesting. In the context of Oathbringer, I find even more uninteresting... Adolin being the Highprince means he will never face the consequences for having murdered Sadeas. This is done. It is over. He is above all laws now, he can't be trialed, exiled nor executed. He can't be disowned. Nothing of the wonderful amazing interesting consequences most readers have thought of will never happen, so yeah, I hate it. What else will Brandon write? I have no idea, but since I have been rooting for an Adolin/Dalinar conflict, I am a bit disappointed in seeing it isn't going down this way. Dalinar is barely acknowledging Adolin is existing.

2

Adolin can still be tried, stripped of his rank, and executed or exiled. Dalinar was worried this very thing would happen to him in TWoKs when he thought he would be accused of trying to kill the king. And Elkohar asked Dalinar if he should arrest Sadeas when he betrayed Dalinar on the field and left him to die. So within the Law Adolin killing Sadeas could be tried. Heck, Dalinar was planning to try Amaram for killing a few of lowly darkeyes.

Sadeas wasn't tried because his army and allies would have prevented him from being arrested and likely started a civil war that destroyed the kingdom. However, as loved as Adolin is the armies loyal to him are loyal to his father. Adolin committing such a crime dishonors the new Highking of Urithru and therefore Dalinar will have to at least exile him to save face.

@maxal don't lose heart. Your Dalinar vs Adolin conflict is coming. Adolin will need to run from Urithru before this is over, likely with Bridgeboy's help.

[Nymeros]

After a reread:

The Prologue "To Weep" is still my favorite Oathbringer chapter....however, my new favorite moment is Remain healing Adolin. That was a beautiful scene.

[Andy92]

8 minutes ago, Nymeros said:

my new favorite moment is Remain healing Adolin. That was a beautiful scene.

I thought this was a really touching moment, and it's been one of my favorite scenes in Oathbringer so far. It introduced us to Renarin's use of Surges in such a meaningful way. 

[Frostlander]

@maxal Any thought on whether Adolin's ability to listen to and to understand Renarin-speak is significant? I was thinking about Lift's talent for understanding and speaking street slang. 

Also, related, but not to OB, I know the pre-duel ceremony involved remembering his conspicuously-forgotten mother via her chain, but it also got me thinking about eating chicken. If his mother is Iri or Rira, those kingdoms' proximity to Shinovar might mean his mother favored chicken, giving the ceremony another remembrance aspect. (I'm not sure if there's anything to it, but I'm actually kind of serious about the chicken...)

[Caesura she/her]

@Frostlander Just chipping in re: Renolin - I just put Adolin's understanding of him as experience. My brother is non-verbal, and not many people know how to talk to him, but we can communicate fine, as a result of living most of our lives together.

[+eveorjoy she/her]

7 minutes ago, Caesura said:

@Frostlander Just chipping in re: Renolin - I just put Adolin's understanding of him as experience. My brother is non-verbal, and not many people know how to talk to him, but we can communicate fine, as a result of living most of our lives together.

Precisely. The family of someone with autism will know what they are trying to say, Actually, a family that is close will understand each other whether they have issues or not. The scene just shows Adolin is a good brother.